The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Rhyme Animal]

Sorry, you're right, that was a little immature from me. I'm a bit of a sore loser too I guess. But yeah, I mostly agree with everything you said. And I definitely don't think Mourinho is going anywhere at the moment either. I just wish we had a board that thought a bit more long term and had a vision. F*ck City. Not necessarily like them. But like clubs such as Dortmund, Barca, Ajax. Clubs where you don't have to guess what their football will look like a year from now.

No worries, my man. I understand totally.

Watching the World fawn over City (to the point where they're over-rated every season until they meet an up for it team in the CL), while we serve as a cushy job opportunity for Woodward and co is infuriating.

For me, we must get in a stylish, driven DoF and a manager with modern credentials in attacking football.

Woodward needs to leave his post at the same time as Mourinho in my opinion.

The guy has been the one constant during the run of Moyes, LvG and Mourinho, and he isn't a football man.

Meanwhile, Citeh had Barca's TWO ex DoF (while we don't even have one...), and look at the outcome for each club.

 

[Irwin99]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11551215/jose-we-cant-all-buy-four-full-backs

I thought these were some really interesting quotes that lend themselves to the theory that Jose much prefers working with established players than trying to get young talents to improve their game. As a club we're renowned for bringing through young players and Jose seems to be suggesting that the board have told him to work with Martial, Shaw, Lingard and Rashford rather than bring in more experienced players. These young players all have big potential but in two and a half seasons the progression hasn't been exceptional. All four were pretty bad today. I do wonder whether they would improve a lot under a different manager or whether we're overrating how good they can be.

He still doesn't give any defence as to the signings he made which haven't turned out so well.

 

[Adisa]

-1 GD after 12 games. Sheesh!

 

[Leftback99]

This is kind of insane to be honest. Zidane doesn't seem to be perfect but he's won 3 European cups in a row. I don't like Conte but he's an excellent manager. Pirlo's book gives a decent indication of what players think of him. Pochetino has been working on a shoestring for years yet has produced a team who play excellent football and has consistently made individual players much better over time.

These are all more suited to United than Jose. Poch would be my personal choice.

Edit: To address your point about guaranteeing success. This is impossible. It was what we tried to do with Jose. Suffer the long term consequences in a bid to guarantee short term success. You sign managers to move you forward and improve things, not to guarantee success.

Di Matteo won the CL. Spurs football has been far from excellent this season with a better group of players than we have.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

My opinion didn't change when we scraped victories over Bournemouth and Juventus and, to some extent, Everton (we played quite well that day though).

Jose has to go, narrow wins in games when we've been schooled for long periods don't convince me otherwise. His team and approach today was cowardly as feck, exactly what we've come to expect from the bloke. He's small-time. His glory days are long gone, the game has now comfortably passed him by and if we genuinely want to be seen as a top club again, he needs to go this summer.

It won't be before then, though. Once we can't get top 4, the decision will be made but he'll still be allowed to see out the season as there's nobody else available and nor would anyone want to come in for about 2months of a lost, dead rubber season.

 

[SteveW]

Di Matteo won the CL. Spurs football has been far from excellent this season with a better group of players than we have.

Don't get your point about Di Matteo. Are you comparing winning the CL once with winning it 3 years in a row?

How come Spurs have a better group of footballers. I think you'll find the answer in the post you've just responded to.

 

[WensleyMU]

Arsenal at home and Liverpool away aside, we've got a very favourable run til the new year.

Most here wouldn't have expected us to take 10 ponts from the last 5, or to take a single point, let alone 3 from the 2 Juventus games. But we have, and that's from a run of games significantly tougher than the next 6 league games. 4 of them are against the worst sides in the league. I think we can take 15 points at least from those games.

Today's game doesn't change anything at all.

 

[SteveW]

Arsenal at home and Liverpool away aside, we've got a very favourable run til the new year.

Most here wouldn't have expected us to take 10 ponts from the last 5, or to take a single point, let alone 3 from the 2 Juventus games. But we have, and that's from a run of games significantly tougher than the next 6 league games. 4 of them are against the worst sides in the league. I think we can take 15 points at least from those games.

Today's game doesn't change anything at all.

Changes the league table. We're now 12 points behind and in 8 place.

 

[LoveFootball]

I don't give two fecks about our goal difference. I care about points and whether it's salvageable in the stage of the season we're in.

We have easier fixtures in Europe with some good games at OT coming up particularly during Christmas.. Palace, Huddersfield, Cardiff, Southampton, etc.

Spurs will need to face the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea sandwiched between Inter Milan. Arsenal will come to Old Trafford (and Spurs obviously). There is a lot that can happen between now and the end of the year.

I think our only difficult matches on paper are Arsenal (at OT) and Liverpool until the end of the year. We can crack on some form now, lets not forget we had a good run of results up to today. I'm not going to start complaining that we lost to a team that's arguably the best in Europe right now when we were missing about £160m of our talent before a ball was kicked.

I appreciate your optimism but every game is a struggle nowadays, even the last good results have been achieved with a lot of hustle. Newcastle, Bournemouth, West ham, Derby, Valence, Young Boys,... are not big opponents. This current United is an unpredictable team and everything can happen. The fact we're now talking about top 4 into Mourinho 3rd season should be enough to put genuine doubt on him; the fact we're not challenging any of City or Liverpool is enough proof that he's not doing his job right.

As For the bold part, how can you support a club which is historically known for his attacking football and say that? Seriously a negative GD means your team is not doing well. Look at the trend, when we win, our GD goes up when we lose it goes down, so if we really need to salvage the season, we need to score more and avoid to concede.

 

[SteveW]

Don't get your point about Di Matteo. Are you comparing winning the CL once with winning it 3 years in a row?

How come Spurs have a better group of footballers. I think you'll find the answer in the post you've just responded to.

I'd actually love to see what Pochetino could do here. He seems to constantly take young players I've never heard of and get them playing great stuff. I'd love to see what he could do with the likes of Rashford and Pereira to name just a couple. Give him a year or two and he'd probably have someone like Tuanzebe bossing it at CB. It would be interesting and I'm sure we'd improve under him.

 

[BaseFishing]

Even SAF, by the time he retired, was a little behind in terms of the way football was evolving. Things likes pressing, retaining the ball more strategically, playing extremely fluid football, were not how United played (for the most part) after Ronaldo left. However, the massive caveat here is that Sir Alex Ferguson, when he retired, was more or less ready for retirement. The man is a legend, leader, and an archetypal father to us all. But he is not immortal and no one can stay at the top forever.

A younger SAF, however, would have 100,000% adapted to the way football is currently being played, and would definitely be up there with Pep at the moment. I'm more than sure of that. Even with the current players, heck, we might not be top of the league, but we would be playing better, we would be more inspired as a football club, we would have a clearer set-up, the mood of the fans would be better, and most importantly - even if none of that was the case for a while and we were in transition - the club would still have a clear vision forward. In terms of the football. In terms of the goals. In terms of recruitment. Even in terms of the atmosphere around the club as a whole.

Unfortunately Sir Alex is basically just a fan now, just like the rest of us. Although he may have some remaining power in the board, he probably enjoys spending his time with family and/or doing other things. And so he should. The more time that goes on, the more the man will become a myth more than anything else. And so he should. He will become that for a reason. Think of it like Batman - after his death he is more like a symbol to the people of Gotham than anything else. If after Batman is gone there is a tragedy in Gotham, it doesn't help to say "Even Batman wouldn't be able to sort out this tragedy". First of all, you don't know that. Second of all, the best thing that Batman did for the city is not to get rid of the tragedies of the time, like crime, or the Joker, or whatever. It was to give them a symbol and a vision to strive towards. It's the same with figures like Sir Alex. He has given us a vision to strive towards, as a club. The way Cruyff did for Ajax and Barca. And that's what we should be following - that vision.

This doesn't mean we need to be looking for any young Scottish manager called Alex. It doesn't mean that at all. It just means that EVERY SINGLE DECISION that the club makes from now on should be with that very vision in mind. Every decision, be it managerial, DOF-related, hiring the tea lady, whatever, should be made with the question 'Is this course of action in line with the fundamentals of this football club?', 'Is there a congruence between this decision and the "blood" of our football club?'.

Mourinho has to go. And so does Woodward. They probably won't go soon, I don't mind. I'll wait and I'll still watch the games and read the caf. But I hope that one day soon we begin moving in that direction. I'm an optimist so I think we will.

To conclude:
SAF = Batman.

 

[Nate Dogg]

A few people in here changed their opinions after the Juve game , I didn't and never will.

The guy has spent in excess of £350m and made our team worse than it was under Moyes, how is that possible?

 

[WensleyMU]

Changes the league table. We're now 12 points behind and in 8 place.

Did you before this game think we were in a title race?

 

[SteveW]

Did you before this game think we were in a title race?

I haven't thought that once since he took over

 

[crossy1686]

You do understand what a silver lining means right? Nice of you to throw in a bit of xenophobia in there since you clearly do not understand the premise of finding positivity from a defeat and confuse it with joy.

It's extremely sad.

How did I express anything remotely xenophobic? You wrote some absolute nonsense then asked if I didn't understand it because English wasn't my first language, which is presumptuous to say the very least. Again, the fact you think there is anything positive about getting beat off City is pathetic.

 

[Suvvernmanc]

Hes already bought 3 defenders.. 4 midfielders and 3 strikers. 2 have already left, and the rest are either not getting game time, or have regressed so dramatically from their previous form that they look a shadow of what they once were. The chance of the title is over, getting top 4 will be impossible in my opinion.

We can't go into next season with a new manager trying to find his feet because it will mean a slow start and then come November, the season will be over again. We surely cant give Jose the rest of the season. It is madness. It is so frustrating as i know that it is what will happen.

 

[Adisa]

Remember that Mourinho wants the club to renew Herrera, Mata and Young's contract. He also wanted Fellaini to stay badly. He keeps playing Matic even through we ship goals after goals because he's all at sea. He has a £50m man in the bench that can't get a game.
There are so many things broken at this club.

 

[Leftback99]

Don't get your point about Di Matteo. Are you comparing winning the CL once with winning it 3 years in a row?

How come Spurs have a better group of footballers. I think you'll find the answer in the post you've just responded to.

Winning the CL relies on a large amount of luck, when you also have the best players you won't be too far away. In the league he finished 3rd, 17 points behind Barcelona last season. And that's with Ramos, Marcelo, Kroos, Ronaldo and Bale, not Smalling, Shaw, Herrera, Rashford and Lukaku.

Spurs main men are Eriksen, Kane, Alli and Vertonghen. Poch had nothing or very little to do with signing them.

I actually agree he's probably the best of the bunch but he's not available so we shouldn't just bring someone else in for the sake of it.

 

[GlennonTheGr8]

Even SAF, by the time he retired, was a little behind in terms of the way football was evolving. Things likes pressing, retaining the ball more strategically, playing extremely fluid football, were not how United played (for the most part) after Ronaldo left. However, the massive caveat here is that Sir Alex Ferguson, when he retired, was more or less ready for retirement. The man is a legend, leader, and an archetypal father to us all. But he is not immortal and no one can stay at the top forever.

A younger SAF, however, would have 100,000% adapted to the way football is currently being played, and would definitely be up there with Pep at the moment. I'm more than sure of that. Even with the current players, heck, we might not be top of the league, but we would be playing better, we would be more inspired as a football club, we would have a clearer set-up, the mood of the fans would be better, and most importantly - even if none of that was the case for a while and we were in transition - the club would still have a clear vision forward. In terms of the football. In terms of the goals. In terms of recruitment. Even in terms of the atmosphere around the club as a whole.

Unfortunately Sir Alex is basically just a fan now, just like the rest of us. Although he may have some remaining power in the board, he probably enjoys spending his time with family and/or doing other things. And so he should. The more time that goes on, the more the man will become a myth more than anything else. And so he should. He will become that for a reason. Think of it like Batman - after his death he is more like a symbol to the people of Gotham than anything else. If after Batman is gone there is a tragedy in Gotham, it doesn't help to say "Even Batman wouldn't be able to sort out this tragedy". First of all, you don't know that. Second of all, the best thing that Batman did for the city is not to get rid of the tragedies of the time, like crime, or the Joker, or whatever. It was to give them a symbol and a vision to strive towards. It's the same with figures like Sir Alex. He has given us a vision to strive towards, as a club. The way Cruyff did for Ajax and Barca. And that's what we should be following - that vision.

This doesn't mean we need to be looking for any young Scottish manager called Alex. It doesn't mean that at all. It just means that EVERY SINGLE DECISION that the club makes from now on should be with that very vision in mind. Every decision, be it managerial, DOF-related, hiring the tea lady, whatever, should be made with the question 'Is this course of action in line with the fundamentals of this football club?', 'Is there a congruence between this decision and the "blood" of our football club?'.

Mourinho has to go. And so does Woodward. They probably won't go soon, I don't mind. I'll wait and I'll still watch the games and read the caf. But I hope that one day soon we begin moving in that direction. I'm an optimist so I think we will.

To conclude:
SAF = Batman.

Ah, hello Mark Goldbridge. I always wondered if you were on here.

 

[SteveW]

Even SAF, by the time he retired, was a little behind in terms of the way football was evolving. Things likes pressing, retaining the ball more strategically, playing extremely fluid football, were not how United played (for the most part) after Ronaldo left. However, the massive caveat here is that Sir Alex Ferguson, when he retired, was more or less ready for retirement. The man is a legend, leader, and an archetypal father to us all. But he is not immortal and no one can stay at the top forever.

A younger SAF, however, would have 100,000% adapted to the way football is currently being played, and would definitely be up there with Pep at the moment. I'm more than sure of that. Even with the current players, heck, we might not be top of the league, but we would be playing better, we would be more inspired as a football club, we would have a clearer set-up, the mood of the fans would be better, and most importantly - even if none of that was the case for a while and we were in transition - the club would still have a clear vision forward. In terms of the football. In terms of the goals. In terms of recruitment. Even in terms of the atmosphere around the club as a whole.

Unfortunately Sir Alex is basically just a fan now, just like the rest of us. Although he may have some remaining power in the board, he probably enjoys spending his time with family and/or doing other things. And so he should. The more time that goes on, the more the man will become a myth more than anything else. And so he should. He will become that for a reason. Think of it like Batman - after his death he is more like a symbol to the people of Gotham than anything else. If after Batman is gone there is a tragedy in Gotham, it doesn't help to say "Even Batman wouldn't be able to sort out this tragedy". First of all, you don't know that. Second of all, the best thing that Batman did for the city is not to get rid of the tragedies of the time, like crime, or the Joker, or whatever. It was to give them a symbol and a vision to strive towards. It's the same with figures like Sir Alex. He has given us a vision to strive towards, as a club. The way Cruyff did for Ajax and Barca. And that's what we should be following - that vision.

This doesn't mean we need to be looking for any young Scottish manager called Alex. It doesn't mean that at all. It just means that EVERY SINGLE DECISION that the club makes from now on should be with that very vision in mind. Every decision, be it managerial, DOF-related, hiring the tea lady, whatever, should be made with the question 'Is this course of action in line with the fundamentals of this football club?', 'Is there a congruence between this decision and the "blood" of our football club?'.

Mourinho has to go. And so does Woodward. They probably won't go soon, I don't mind. I'll wait and I'll still watch the games and read the caf. But I hope that one day soon we begin moving in that direction. I'm an optimist so I think we will.

To conclude:
SAF = Batman.

100% correct. We need a consistent sustainable direction. A new DOF who likes good football and Poch would be my solution to all this.

 

[crossy1686]

How was that xenophobic?

He wrote some bollocks and then asked if the reason I didn't agree with it was because English wasn't my first language. As a Salford lad born and raised, English might not be my first language, but there's no right to suggest I'm foreign and therefore don't understand bullshit when I see it.

 

[manutddjw]

I put the blame squarely on the manager. If we have a bad day, you can blame the players for not turning up, it’s happened before even under Sir Alex numerous times, no big deal. But when you’re serving up the same garbage week after week the blame goes on the manager.

And I’m sick of this “well Ed Woodward didn’t give him everything he asked for”. We have given him a lot of money to spend and he hasn’t kicked on. I’m sorry did Arsenal, Tottenham or Chelsea spend significantly more than we did this summer? Not to mention 2 of those clubs have new managers and implemented their style a quarter of the season in, yet this guy in his third seasons still needs time to build his team if that makes any sense.

You just have to wonder how Sir Alex managed to keep us competitive and putting out teams that can create chances. He didn’t get every player he wanted, missed out on his targets and went against sugar daddy clubs as well. According to the special one, if that happens there’s no hope and we can watch as Wolves play better football than Manchester United and Bournemouth have a similar goal difference.

 

[SteveW]

Winning the CL relies on a large amount of luck, when you also have the best players you won't be too far away. In the league he finished 3rd, 17 points behind Barcelona last season. And that's with Ramos, Marcelo, Kroos, Ronaldo and Bale, not Smalling, Shaw, Herrera, Rashford and Lukaku.

Spurs main men are Eriksen, Kane, Alli and Vertonghen. Poch had nothing or very little to do with signing them.

I actually agree he's probably the best of the bunch but he's not available so we shouldn't just bring someone else in for the sake of it.

He's available. We just have to pay enough. Spurs will never have the finances for him to bring them to the next level. He knows that deep down.

 

[SteveW]

He wrote some bollocks and then asked if the reason I didn't agree with it was because English wasn't my first language. As a Salford lad born and raised, English might not be my first language, but there's no right to suggest I'm foreign and therefore don't understand bullshit when I see it.

He seemed to feel who were misunderstanding what he was saying. Naturally that could happen if English wasn't your first language. Not quite sure what's xenophobic about that? I haven't really followed your conversation so not sure if he's said something else that makes you say that. Just curious to be honest. Feel free to ignore me.

 

[Scholsey2004]

He's had his chance now, with huge expenditure on players, many of whom he's fallen out with almost immediately. I can't help but think after watching today's Manchester derby that Manchester City are heading in a more positive direction than United. I want to see us playing the kind of progressive football that City are playing. Mourinho is turning us into George Grahams Arsenal.

 

[Backrow Singer]

I don’t post on here too often anymore but we’re in a mess and have been since Ferguson retired. The process has been managed appallingly and we’re seeing the effects of that now IMO.

We replaced Sir Alex with Moyes, wrong decision but was only compounded by sacking him one season into a six year project, a project that had been agreed prior to him taking the job. His plan was to recruit gradually but by sacking him one year in, that went to pot. Van Gaal comes in and we try to throw money at the problem in order to fix it. Di Maria, Falcao etc etc. Mourinho inherited a mess but got us back to the Champions League via the Europa League and last year, we finished second which was a considerable stride.

Have to say though and I’ve said it multiple times, too many players aren’t good enough. Too many players are overhyped by the fans for various reasons. Rashford, Hererra, Lingard, Smalling, Lindelof, Young etc are not good enough. That’s not taking into account Jones, Darmian and all the other clowns who are waiting in the wings. They aren’t good enough, full stop. Then you’ve got the likes of Matic, Martial, Shaw, Pogba etc who have shown signs of being good enough but for one reason or another we can’t get firing consistently.

Our defence is killing us. They don’t pick up runners, they can’t defend 1 v 1, they don’t block crosses into the box, they’re rash in their decision making. We don’t have players who can both press defensively and provide quality in attack and we don’t have the defenders behind the ball to put men around the box. If we want to press, we have to pick Hererra, Lingard, Rashford, Fred and the like and they just aren’t good enough on the ball. We tried pressing against Spurs and got belted, we tried pressing after the penalty today and nearly conceded three goals in five minutes.

I see a real shortage of leaders. I don’t think we have a leader. Rooney and Ibrahimavic haven’t been replaced. I wouldn’t follow any of them into the isles at Tesco. Lingard gives the ball away today in the lead up to their second goal and not one of them says a thing. Someone should be screaming at Lingard there. Totally, totally unacceptable piece of play and they just accept it. Too accepting of second best. Too nice, not aggressive enough. Tripe.

The club have lost their focus. Too many non footballing people taking up business positions at the football club. To many people hiding their emotions and true feelings because they don’t want to upset someone. Nice guys and teams don’t win trophies. Distinct lack of standards.

We’ve got a problem I’m afraid. Big mess and has been for a while.

‘Style of play’, I can take it or leave it but got too many players who don’t fit into any form of style, who aren’t good enough at the basics to fit into any form of game plan.

 

[Backrow Singer]

He's had his chance now, with huge expenditure on players, many of whom he's fallen out with almost immediately. I can't help but think after watching today's Manchester derby that Manchester City are heading in a more positive direction than United. I want to see us playing the kind of progressive football that City are playing. Mourinho is turning us into George Grahams Arsenal.

You won’t see that type of football with Lingard, Rashford, Hererra, Young and the like in your team.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

You won’t see that type of football with Lingard, Rashford, Hererra, Young and the like in your team.

What'a more infuriating is that we had Mata, Sanchez & Fred, all technically superior footballers than the first 3 you listed, sat on the bench.

 

[Backrow Singer]

What'a more infuriating is that we had Mata, Sanchez & Fred, all technically superior footballers than the first 3 you listed, sat on the bench.

I think all three need to play. Mata and Sanchez are two who I think are good enough. Sanchez had a knock today by all accounts but he’s my 9 every day of the week. Have Felaini/Lukaku in the wings by all means if we need something different but Sanchez is someone I can get behind.

Our best hope (assuming we don’t have any major changes), it so sign a centre half, give Matic a rest and if he comes through that (big, big if), play him, Pogba and Fred in the middle with Mata, Sanchez and Martial in attack. We’ve just played Chelsea, Juve x 2, City, Valencia but I’d like to see those six get a run at some stage.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Recent comeback wins didn't change anything for me.

That thread after our Juventus win was embarrassing as if Jose pulled off a tactical masterclass vs them and asking if any other manager could have done the same.

Once this charlatan of a manager is gone, maybe we'll start making progress. Woodward should have zero say on the next manager. 2 managers he's picked and they've both failed.

 

[Scholsey2004]

You won’t see that type of football with Lingard, Rashford, Hererra, Young and the like in your team.

We haven't seen it with pogba Sanchez mata or mkhitaryan either. Either the manager simply doesn't want to play that way or he just can't coach that kind of football. Its pointless carrying on with mourinho at the point where its clear the destination isn't where we want to be.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I don’t post on here too often anymore but we’re in a mess and have been since Ferguson retired. The process has been managed appallingly and we’re seeing the effects of that now IMO.

We replaced Sir Alex with Moyes, wrong decision but was only compounded by sacking him one season into a six year project, a project that had been agreed prior to him taking the job. His plan was to recruit gradually but by sacking him one year in, that went to pot. Van Gaal comes in and we try to throw money at the problem in order to fix it. Di Maria, Falcao etc etc. Mourinho inherited a mess but got us back to the Champions League via the Europa League and last year, we finished second which was a considerable stride.

Have to say though and I’ve said it multiple times, too many players aren’t good enough. Too many players are overhyped by the fans for various reasons. Rashford, Hererra, Lingard, Smalling, Lindelof, Young etc are not good enough. That’s not taking into account Jones, Darmian and all the other clowns who are waiting in the wings. They aren’t good enough, full stop. Then you’ve got the likes of Matic, Martial, Shaw, Pogba etc who have shown signs of being good enough but for one reason or another we can’t get firing consistently.

Our defence is killing us. They don’t pick up runners, they can’t defend 1 v 1, they don’t block crosses into the box, they’re rash in their decision making. We don’t have players who can both press defensively and provide quality in attack and we don’t have the defenders behind the ball to put men around the box. If we want to press, we have to pick Hererra, Lingard, Rashford, Fred and the like and they just aren’t good enough on the ball. We tried pressing against Spurs and got belted, we tried pressing after the penalty today and nearly conceded three goals in five minutes.

I see a real shortage of leaders. I don’t think we have a leader. Rooney and Ibrahimavic haven’t been replaced. I wouldn’t follow any of them into the isles at Tesco. Lingard gives the ball away today in the lead up to their second goal and not one of them says a thing. Someone should be screaming at Lingard there. Totally, totally unacceptable piece of play and they just accept it. Too accepting of second best. Too nice, not aggressive enough. Tripe.

The club have lost their focus. Too many non footballing people taking up business positions at the football club. To many people hiding their emotions and true feelings because they don’t want to upset someone. Nice guys and teams don’t win trophies. Distinct lack of standards.

We’ve got a problem I’m afraid. Big mess and has been for a while.

‘Style of play’, I can take it or leave it but got too many players who don’t fit into any form of style, who aren’t good enough at the basics to fit into any form of game plan.

Too right.

 

[Scholsey2004]

Recent comeback wins didn't change anything for me.

That thread after our Juventus win was embarrassing as if Jose pulled off a tactical masterclass vs them and asking if any other manager could have done the same.

Once this charlatan of a manager is gone, maybe we'll start making progress. Woodward should have zero say on the next manager. 2 managers he's picked and they've both failed.

Absolutely correct on Woodward. He never should have been involved in the football side at all anyway. Completely unqualified.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Didn’t watch the game but been looking at stats to see if there’s anything to positive about the match.

Spoiler. There isn’t.

The stat that grips my shit most of all relates to tackles. I can accept that a Mourinho team might not compete with tiki taka techno midgets when it comes to passing stats but at least get fecking stuck in!

We only made 3 more tackles than City (16 vs 19) despite having a measly 35% possession. That’s a disgrace all by itself. However, the fact we won just 52% of our tackles to 92% from City is indefensible (literally). Our manager and our team can go feck themselves. Useless, lily-livered twats. Not fit to wear the shirt.

Quoting myself from the post-match thread. I can live with Mourinho not creating a team who can beat Guardiola at his own game. But if he can’t create a team who will at least match them, in terms of fight and desire to win the ball in the tackle, then what’s the point of him, exactly?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Quoting myself from the post-match thread. I can accept Mourinho not creating a team who can beat Guardiola at his own game. But if he can’t create a team who will at least match them, in terms of fight and desire to win the ball in the tackle, then what’s the point of him, exactly?

We let them pass it around us 44 times and score a goal... No pressure, no tackles, no fouls, no anything... In the 85th minute when we should be chasing a goal.

It's crazy really.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We let them pass it around us 44 times and score a goal... No pressure, no tackles, no fouls, no anything... In the 85th minute when we should be chasing a goal.

It's crazy really.

In a fecking derby! Christ. So bored of this post-Fergie era. Shite follows shite follows shite.

 

[Mainoldo]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11551215/jose-we-cant-all-buy-four-full-backs

I thought these were some really interesting quotes that lend themselves to the theory that Jose much prefers working with established players than trying to get young talents to improve their game. As a club we're renowned for bringing through young players and Jose seems to be suggesting that the board have told him to work with Martial, Shaw, Lingard and Rashford rather than bring in more experienced players. These young players all have big potential but in two and a half seasons the progression hasn't been exceptional. All four were pretty bad today. I do wonder whether they would improve a lot under a different manager or whether we're overrating how good they can be.

He still doesn't give any defence as to the signings he made which haven't turned out so well.

It’s easy to downplay young players when you can’t be arsed to improve them. There was a time you’d get laughed at for comparing Ronaldo to Kaka.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Arsenal at home and Liverpool away aside, we've got a very favourable run til the new year.

Most here wouldn't have expected us to take 10 ponts from the last 5, or to take a single point, let alone 3 from the 2 Juventus games. But we have, and that's from a run of games significantly tougher than the next 6 league games. 4 of them are against the worst sides in the league. I think we can take 15 points at least from those games.

Today's game doesn't change anything at all.

Tbh, 15 points would not be enough from those games. That's the position we're in now. If Spurs in 4th reach 80 points this season (theyre on course for 86) then Mourinho needs to pick up points at about the same rate as Fergie did in his last title winning season. We need a truly special campaign from now til the end of the season to reach top 4, and that means winning pretty much all the head to head games with the top 4 contenders.

 

[DarkXaero]

*shakes head* I can't. I can't. I just can't. How do you people make decisions in real life

For those of you who still can't decide whether Mourinho is the one for this club or not. For those of you who are in that 5-10% who keep changing their votes in this thread in the last month or so. For those of you for whom achieving a fluky victory over an unremarkable (on the night) Juventus means Mourinho should stay and then losing 3-1 to this frankly excellent City team means Mourinho should go. I just can't. I have no hope for those of you at all. We're all fans here. We're not the old drunk guy at the pub who says he supports Man Utd but can't name 5 current players. And we're not the 21 year old girl who's trying to act cool and says she is a fan of the club but has actually never watched a single full game in her life. Most of us here have watched pretty much every game since Mourinho took charge. We've watched or read pretty much every press conference or important statement that he's given. We've sat around reading other people's takes on his actions, words, tactics, philosophy, mood, everything. FOR. MORE. THAN. TWO. YEARS.

But yeah. The next 5 games will FINALLY tell you what you need to know...

I hope to GOD that those of you who make statements like that are just like that when it comes to football matters. I certainly hope you think a little bit more deeply when it comes to things in your actual life. If not, then please consider thinking a bit more. Wonderful things may happen.

Enjoyed this post and very much agree with it

 

[Dumbat12]

Even SAF, by the time he retired, was a little behind in terms of the way football was evolving. Things likes pressing, retaining the ball more strategically, playing extremely fluid football, were not how United played (for the most part) after Ronaldo left. However, the massive caveat here is that Sir Alex Ferguson, when he retired, was more or less ready for retirement. The man is a legend, leader, and an archetypal father to us all. But he is not immortal and no one can stay at the top forever.

That's not really true. SAF's football was more pragmatic in his last year sorely due to the fact that he was playing with a second division squad - Buttner, Cleverley, Anderson, an aging defense, no midfield, etc. I'm sure that if he had his squad from 2009 or something similiar, we would have still played spectacular football in his final year. And even with that squad SAF played miles better football than Mourinho does currently or Van Gaal and Moyes for that matter. There's just no competition here.