Yeah, think people should chill out with the pitch forks.
Fire Jose by all means, but not until there's an actual f-ing plan in place else we'll be in a worse mess than ever. Until there's an actual plan this time, back the manager.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Yeah, think people should chill out with the pitch forks.
Fire Jose by all means, but not until there's an actual f-ing plan in place else we'll be in a worse mess than ever. Until there's an actual plan this time, back the manager.
True, Moyes isn't a an eye-gouging Doctor abusing tosser who plays the blame game
Works for all the successful clubs we're trailing behind
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The same thing happened with LVG.
LVG finished outside the top 4.
So did Mourinho.
When?
Exactly. There is no sign of Jose losing the dressing room and we've been playing some good football. Even after a win you'd walk in caf and think we'd lost 5-0 or something.
Entirely understandable. Keeping your patience when things are not going well is extremely difficult for any football supporter.
I am not 100% behind Jose, far from it but I certainly do acknowledge that (by virtue of our sheer size) it is inherantly more difficult for him at United than, say Chelsea.
It seems that we, the supporters want utopia - winning the United way. Jose knows how to win and knows how to do that but 'we' want him to do that differently.
You really don't know?
We have to run our DOF appointment by the man who we'll very likely be firing soon. So if Jose doesn't like our selection Manchester fecking United won't hire a dof?! You are really delusional. And you were telling off someone earlier for posting stuff from 'not confirmed' sources
I love your selective reading, it’s doesnt at all make you look like a massive wum at all.
I accept that it works for Chelsea, but their supporters might be less demanding.
They were happy with Conte because he won them the PL despite being a defensive coach.
Things went wrong after that; not dissimilar to when Jose was there.
I do agree with this.
I think that some people hate Jose so much that they don't care how good he plays or what he wins this season. They just want him gone.
I do fear that the next manager who comes in, the same fans who want Jose sacked, will want him sacked 2 years into his tenure. Luckily, these fans have no say in sackings.
It is getting to the stage that if/when we lose a game, people demand a sacking. I mean, WTF!
Indeed.
Well said. I'm cat on the wall in regards to jose but calling for his sack after a good performance is just ridiculous. Jose has played a certain way his whole carrer and it's stupid to ask him not to do that. The ones who hired him needs to be sacked in the first place.
And he got fired and have hired someone else. So have Madrid. I'll take their recent successes with their impatience than whatever it is we seem do with our managers. You guys keep moaning about sacking managers but what bad has it really done for anyone so far? Or what the hell is keeping underperforming managers supposed to do for us if I may ask? Prove we're special or something?
No, when did Jose finish outside the top 4 for us?
Or are you suggesting sacking him for a bad half season with Chelsea?
Much as there's plenty of validity in pointing out that sacking Mourinho isn't going to automatically fix things and that there are much deeper issues within the club, it shouldn't really be used as an argument for keeping him on either.
The fact we've been consistently poor since Fergie left in spite of having several managers isn't an indication that the manager's themselves aren't the problem: it's just an indication that we've either appointed poor managers, or appointed managers who've done poorly. Moyes was always bound to be a dud in retrospect, LVG was too stubborn, and Mourinho's arguably quite outdated.
Yes, we shouldn't just sack a manager every time we enter a poor run of form, but by the same token it's silly to persist with someone just because he's another failure after a line of failures. When we had a string of shite goalkeepers in the 2000s we didn't concoct crazy arguments that the reason for those goalkeepers failing was to do with anything other than the fact that most of them just weren't particularly good: we went out and signed a top-class goalkeeper who fixed our problems in that respective area. Hypothetically, as an example, if Lukaku's shite this season, and we replace him with another striker who also happens to end up doing poorly for us, we'll probably look at replacing him again instead of accepting the fact that we consistently keep bringing in players who aren't up to the task in a certain position. A similar principle should surely apply to any manager we have.
The fact we've been consistently poor since Fergie left in spite of having several managers isn't an indication that the manager's themselves aren't the problem: it's just an indication that we've either appointed poor managers, or appointed managers who've done poorly. Moyes was always bound to be a dud in retrospect, LVG was too stubborn, and Mourinho's arguably quite outdated.
Yes, we shouldn't just sack a manager every time we enter a poor run of form, but by the same token it's silly to persist with someone just because he's another failure after a line of failures. When we had a string of shite goalkeepers in the 2000s we didn't concoct crazy arguments that the reason for those goalkeepers failing was to do with anything other than the fact that most of them just weren't particularly good: we went out and signed a top-class goalkeeper who fixed our problems in that respective area. Hypothetically, as an example, if Lukaku's shite this season, and we replace him with another striker who also happens to end up doing poorly for us, we'll probably look at replacing him again instead of accepting the fact that we consistently keep bringing in players who aren't up to the task in a certain position. A similar principle should surely apply to any manager we have.
Maybe they are underperforming cause you keep freaking sacking them and don't give them time? Imagine Klopp the one Who so many consider him very good right now, if it was with your patience he would never be coaching Liverpool right now, he would be long gone, maybe stop hiring coaches only to refuse to give them the transfers they want like LVG confessed few days ago and the board keeps doing it on Jose?
He literally finished 6th in 2016-17.
He literally finished 6th in 2016-17.
You must’ve blocked it out mate
Sorry. That was poor form from myself !
But the issue there is Mourinho has always been a short term coach, he has only ever lasted longer than 3 seasons once, Chelsea. He was sacked in September on his 4th season.
No long term plan with Mourinho, you win a few things then move on. This season has proven the obvious that he's never going to be able to build a dynasty, if he couldn't keep it going at Chelsea back in his first stint when he was twice the manager and had a significantly better team.. How the feck is he going to last longer here?
For me, as I said earlier. What is the point of keeping a very much results based manager when the results are extremely below standard. When the drama is constant and the football is appalling.
I'd be more willing to of kept LVG as you could argue that it may of taken 5years + for him to instill that philosophy of his, seeing as Utd have never been a possession based side.
I was firmly LVG out mind and I've been firmly Mourinho out since Sevilla.
I think he is too cautious now adays, which can lead to hesitation in the players which then leads to poor results, especially in CL games it seems.
Please not this shit again. But since you've brought it up, explain to us this time around how this club 'refused to give LVG the transfers he wanted'. Several people have spouted that crap with no one giving any details, now tell us, once and for all so no one else comes up with this shite again cos it gives me a headache
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No one said it's enough, but you can't belittle a European trophy as a "tin cup"
What plan? Stop giving the manager louds of money and full control?
Based on last season, the squad is definitely capable of more than they showed early in the season.
I think Mourinho deliberately let the team under perform early in the season to make his point to the board. if he feels his point has been made and he will get what he wants, i expect things to improve on the pitch ( which i think is already happening).
This is mourinho being his usual petulant child ( did similar at madrid) and the board should have seen it coming and avoided it with a solid summer.
How much is left to salvage of the season is yet to be seen but i would expect Mourinho to prioritize top 4 and FA cup.
Even if we fire Mourinho, i dont see the proven coach available that will win the PL or CL for us. Yes, there are managers that would play more attractive football but how long will that last without silverware.
Also if the new manager doesnt like the players mourinho bought, we will spend more money overhauling the team to suit his taste ( similar to the waste following LVG departure).
For me, get a good DOF that can fill the needs of the manager while keeping the long term footballing needs of the club in view. Then we can truly evaluate Mourinho or any other manager on his own merit
I think Mourinho deliberately let the team under perform early in the season to make his point to the board. if he feels his point has been made and he will get what he wants, i expect things to improve on the pitch ( which i think is already happening).
This is mourinho being his usual petulant child ( did similar at madrid) and the board should have seen it coming and avoided it with a solid summer.
How much is left to salvage of the season is yet to be seen but i would expect Mourinho to prioritize top 4 and FA cup.
Even if we fire Mourinho, i dont see the proven coach available that will win the PL or CL for us. Yes, there are managers that would play more attractive football but how long will that last without silverware.
Also if the new manager doesnt like the players mourinho bought, we will spend more money overhauling the team to suit his taste ( similar to the waste following LVG departure).
For me, get a good DOF that can fill the needs of the manager while keeping the long term footballing needs of the club in view. Then we can truly evaluate Mourinho or any other manager on his own merit
Well yes the DOF answers all your questions. There are plenty managers who can win a league with our resources. We just have to make sure it’s the right fit. Although this is Jose’s team I would say only Fellaini and Lukaku represent what would be anti productivity to what an attacking coach would want.
Isn't it really quite a simple equation.
The squad is the same as last season. Minus Blind and plus Fred, Dalot and Lee Grant. The result is the team has got worse.
Why? The manager.
The squad is the same as last season. Minus Blind and plus Fred, Dalot and Lee Grant. The result is the team has got worse.
Why? The manager.
DOF doesnt answer all questions but clears up the vague responsibility in transfers between woodward and whatever manager we had.
Try pep or any of the 'total football' school and its branches, and see how many of the squad survive. Even citeh that was assembled by Begiristain to await pep was overhauled in two seasons.
As to the managers that can win the league with our current squad, I am curious for you to provide names and evidence/argument in support of your claim.
That's the crux of the matter. Planning is one thing but your utopian idea of a proper phylosophy, structure, vision depends on the very subject of finding the right man, 2 in this case. And no DOF knows who the next saf is. Or who the next poch.
I can make a plan, easy.
Improve the academy
Set a vision of how the club should be run for the next 5 years, and subsequently the next 10 years.
Find a suitable manager that ticks the dot.
Set a phylosophy for the next 10 to 20 years.
Recruit suitable players accordingly.
But when it comes to : who? That's the problem. This is another "we must buy the next messi" all over again.
And risk his own job if that antic lost him the top 4, his minimum KPI? Such a fearless and daring manager really suits us to the teeth!
But if we don't cough up whatever they ask for half the forum cries and screams that THE MANAGER WASN'T BACKED!!!!
I mean, I agree that the club has to be able to tell the manager that no, your target is way too expensive, not worth it. But when it happened with Perisic or Maguire, all Mourinho fans blamed the board.
Or they followed Jose Mourinho's managerial career and know that he never ever dug himself out of a hole like this and never, at any club, managed to improve on what he achieved in his second season.
Another reminder that 2 wins shouldn't be enough to sway your opinion of the manager and the shit he's served for the last 3 years. He hasn't turned a corner with regards to his footballing philosophy and he probably never will.
Jose Mourinho isn't a right fit for a club like United and should be removed as soon as possible for a manager more in line with the modern way of football. The club desperately needs a DOF and if Mourinho doesn't think he can function well with a DOF he can do one and it's all the more reason to kick him out to the curb ASAP.
Jose Mourinho isn't a right fit for a club like United and should be removed as soon as possible for a manager more in line with the modern way of football. The club desperately needs a DOF and if Mourinho doesn't think he can function well with a DOF he can do one and it's all the more reason to kick him out to the curb ASAP.
He's only ever dug himself into a hole once. Great sample size.
There's also the third season thing which you ignored.
This whole spending thing is interesting because it only ever seems to work one way, at least in the minds of the Mourinho fans who, inexplicably, still exist.
I mean that if a club spend a penny more than United then that's it, we cannot be expected to finish above them (see your repeated and tedious blathering about Liverpool and how they spent like 20m more over the last three seasons in total). But if we spend more than other clubs that still does not mean we should expect to be better than those clubs because suddenly there is a myriad of other factors.
(Also Lukaku and Pogba were both more expensive than any City transfer ever but yeah let's keep crying about the lack of resources).
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