The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,296 77.1%
  • No

    Votes: 293 9.8%
  • Not yet - needs more time to see if he can turn it around

    Votes: 388 13.0%

  • Total voters
    2,977
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The Florida-based owners, who are in daily contact with executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward, are determined to uphold their reputation for giving managers time to turn difficult situations around at Old Trafford.
Of all the foolish things to factor in this has to the most trivial. These guys haven't watched football long enough to get a feel for when a 'soccer' team is spiralling downwards. It also says they feel his CV has earned him time to turn things around. The same CV that contains several 3rd season meltdowns where he couldn't turn things round. That's it. I've given up on CL football next season
 
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I don't quite understand how you've determined that that's some fixed scenario where it will take 3 seasons for Mourinho to get a team in the shape he wants, why?
Because if you stick with Mourinho, you'd have to move Pogba, Alexis, Martial and probably Bailly? You'd spend the next transfer window in replacing those guys. And replacing them with better players will likely take two windows, or two years as you go with younger players who will need time to bed and develop. Then the following windows would be used to complete the team by moving and replacing the deadwood

It's an estimate of course, and i could be wrong. But sticking with Mourinho would require a rebuild. Another guy could keep those players and go about replacing the deadwood right away. It's highly unlikely that Mourinho could have a title-winning squad next season. It's considerably more likely that you could have a title winning squad next season without Mourinho. Rebuilds tend to take longer times
 
Isn't your last sentence the best argument to move on now?

If the future manager is available immediately then it's best for him to come now with no expectation until next season, he will be given the opportunity to assess everything and everyone without pressure.
If the club really want a DOF then it's best to sack Mourinho now too, the DOF can be brought with a caretaker, he will have a lot of time to assess the team and choose the appropriate head coach for next season.
If no one is available other than a caretaker it's also a better situation, the board and staff will be able to see which players react positively and show their worth, it will make the summer house cleaning easier.

I want Mourinho gone now, but at the same time I don't think it'll be all rosy either for this season or the next manager. I wanted LVG gone but I knew there were other problems. I wanted Moyes gone but I know the squad was terrible. I want Mourinho gone but I know nothing much will change with that only. I know some in those 3 situations have convinced themselves every time that once Moyes/LVG/Mourinho go everything will be fine. Well it's not.

Mourinho needs to be gone but he needs to take several heads with him, new people need to take control of the football side and the new manager should be selected on certain basis. Nothing of these gonna happen. We'll sack him and panic appoint the biggest out of contract name available and in 2-3 years we'll be asking for him to be sacked.

I don't think the 2 points are contradicting.
 
@Bastian I think Mourinho could turn it around given the freedom to excise a few problem players and buy replacements. However, the board are never going to let him do it so his time is up and we're just pointlessly treading water until we are mathematically eliminated from the CL and their payoff clauses come into effect.

We're at the point where we need to get in a new manager to identify players who need to stay or go and get an early start on the next summer window. If the manager fails, well that's just another black mark on Woodward and those mismanaging the footballing side of the club.

I don't fully disagree. I think he could turn it around. Like you, I'm highly skeptical as to whether he'll be backed to do so. The likeliest scenario is that he'll be sacked as the pressure mounts with no public backing in the offing. But I wouldn't want a "future manager" in now. I'd want that manager to have time to prepare, to assess, to identify targets and not enter a co-dependent relationship with a variety of underperforming players or players that simply aren't good enough. So if they sack him, I'd rather just look at this season as a write off and see whether the club acquire footballing expertise and a structure befitting an ambitious club, whilst seeing which players look desperate to impress.
 
Mourinho gets my backing. He has the footballing brain to turn it around. The media has it in for him and the team.
Who could do a better job with the situation. Zidane has not got experience turning a situation around, Real Madrid were a winning team when he took over. He left after 3 seasons when he could see the team would be in decline. Why did he not stick around and have the mentality to rebuild.
I think this season we miss the positive impact of Zlatan in the dressing room and on the training ground. Such a big positive personality, he would not have allowed negativeaty from the likes of Pogba to set in.
Everyone questioned why Furguson sold Pogba, I recon he knew he was trouble and a negative personality to have around.
I just think Mourinho needs to slightly modernise his approach, get a few leaders from the team sit down and discuss a playing strategy and get them on side. Re-invent his methods, Mourinho is still the best there is.
 
Michael Laudrup and Jan Mølby discussed this issue last night on Danish television and they both agreed that United should stay with Mourinho, as no one decent is available right now to take over. And they made the point that while Zidane did outstandingly in Madrid, he knew Real inside out and had a vastly different squad and would probably struggle to succeed in Manchester. I'm not sure I agree with them on the first point, as imo Manchester United is too big of a club to be this boring watching. And while the usual suspects like Klopp, Pep, Allegri etc. are all occupied, surely somewhere there is a manager that can make you look forward to seeing your games. I know I struggle to make it through a United match these days, and I'm basically a football junkie.
My opinion (worth "shite" as mancunians would say) is that if Mourinho was just not doing a good job with the squad, tactically or otherwise, i'd probably back him until the summer. But he has created a toxic atmosphere and it's fairly apparent that the squad is completely demoralized and not in the right frame of mind. That's over the top and he needs to go.
 
Because if you stick with Mourinho, you'd have to move Pogba, Alexis, Martial and probably Bailly? You'd spend the next transfer window in replacing those guys. And replacing them with better players will likely take two windows, or two years as you go with younger players who will need time to bed and develop. Then the following windows would be used to complete the team by moving and replacing the deadwood

It's an estimate of course, and i could be wrong. But sticking with Mourinho would require a rebuild. Another guy could keep those players and go about replacing the deadwood right away. It's highly unlikely that Mourinho could have a title-winning squad next season. It's considerably more likely that you could have a title winning squad next season without Mourinho. Rebuilds tend to take longer times

I'm not sure we'll have a title winning squad next season or the one after, regardless of who is manager. But I don't think Jose is that far off from having a team he trusts fully. 2-3 players. A centre back. A right wing option. And competition for Lukaku.

If the club went all in to back him I think we could have a team in January that suits his methods. It's not least because I think we're not that far off from that that I think he can turn it around. It's mainly Pogba who is problematic of the three players you mention. If Martial leaves Sanchez is guaranteed game time, and vice versa. Bailly would stay and be helped by having a reliable centre back brought in IMV.

But this won't happen :wenger:
 
I want Mourinho gone now, but at the same time I don't think it'll be all rosy either for this season or the next manager. I wanted LVG gone but I knew there were other problems. I wanted Moyes gone but I know the squad was terrible. I want Mourinho gone but I know nothing much will change with that only. I know some in those 3 situations have convinced themselves every time that once Moyes/LVG/Mourinho go everything will be fine. Well it's not.

Mourinho needs to be gone but he needs to take several heads with him, new people need to take control of the football side and the new manager should be selected on certain basis. Nothing of these gonna happen. We'll sack him and panic appoint the biggest out of contract name available and in 2-3 years we'll be asking for him to be sacked.

I don't think the 2 points are contradicting.

To me it reads like you are simply afraid of tomorrow, of course it's not going to be rosy but procrastinating won't make anything better, it's just going to make things that much harder. I say that based on the fact that you see the season as over.
 
Given the latest leaks, you'd think Mourinho has only been struggling for two months.
He's been here for almost 30 and the only conclusion you. An make from those 30 months is that he's not the man.
 
Winning the league is out of the question. Finishing top 4? Why would it be impossible 7 games into the season? You're 5 points off spurs and arsenal, and neither of those sides is City. Why do you think you couldn't go on a good run? You've got more quality and talent than 14 other teams in the league. The big issue right now is not a lack of quality or flaws in the team's structure, it's the relationship between manager and players. A breath of fresh air, a new manager who can get those players happy, hungry and motivated, can quickly fix most of the problems


Of course not. But Mourinho already had his chance and failed. The question now is whether you'd rather wait another 3 seasons for another rebuild with him, or give the job to someone else and give him the chance to complete -complete, not rebuild- the team in the next two transfer windows

Failure is a relative words. If finishind 2nd is a failure then we'd be sacking the next manager unless he won the league.

I'd give Mourinho until the end of the season anyway if it's up to me.
 
To me it reads like you are simply afraid of tomorrow, of course it's not going to be rosy but procrastinating won't make anything better, it's just going to make things that much harder. I say that based on the fact that you see the season as over.

I'm not saying we should persist with Mourinho. It's one way down to hell from now and that's why he should go now.

Yep, very afraid from tomorrow tbh. Don't think we can withstand a 4th bad managerial appointment. We can't also go on next season without title challenge for the 7th year in the row. If we didn't act now and started doing a rebuild in the club structure regarding the DOF/manager/squad, I don't know what will happen to the club.
 
The 5-6 points gap isn't a small gap anymore and as I said, Spurs usually start poorly and pick up their form in second half of the season so that's not even their best.
It's still spurs and arsenal. They aren't going to finish on 80+ points
I'm not sure we'll have a title winning squad next season or the one after, regardless of who is manager. But I don't think Jose is that far off from having a team he trusts fully. 2-3 players. A centre back. A right wing option. And competition for Lukaku.

If the club went all in to back him I think we could have a team in January that suits his methods. It's not least because I think we're not that far off from that that I think he can turn it around. It's mainly Pogba who is problematic of the three players you mention. If Martial leaves Sanchez is guaranteed game time, and vice versa. Bailly would stay and be helped by having a reliable centre back brought in IMV.

But this won't happen :wenger:
1) by january you might be out of the CL and out of top 4 race.
2) do you really believe replacing Pogba would be simple? That getting rid of Alexis would be simple, or that Mourinho would then trust Martial, a player he has shown ZERO trust in more than 2 years, to replace him? Or that Alexis, whom he's played extensively to appalling results, and whom he's reportedly fallen out as well, would start producing the goods with Martial gone?
 
But I wouldn't want a "future manager" in now. I'd want that manager to have time to prepare, to assess, to identify targets and not enter a co-dependent relationship with a variety of underperforming players or players that simply aren't good enough. So if they sack him, I'd rather just look at this season as a write off and see whether the club acquire footballing expertise and a structure befitting an ambitious club, whilst seeing which players look desperate to impress.

The issue I have with that approach is that it was effectively what happened with Mourinho and it still took him 6-12 months to move on a bunch of players. I'd rather give a new manager time on the training ground to instill changes and identify problems now as opposed to having to do everything over the summer as LVG and Mourinho had to do at the start of their reigns.
 
Steve Bruce gets the chop, Jose is still in a job.

Maybe hes Joses replacement???

Checked the Sky Sports app at work this afternoon and nearly leaped out of my seat cause I saw breaking news and the word “sacked” and presumed it was José.

Oh well.
 
I think something special could happen with Mourinho at United if we keep faith with him and force the dressing room to bend to his will.

Ditch the manchild ringleader Pogba, bring in another Slav lieutenant like Savic and watch the rest instantaneously fall into line.

Or watch player power destroy a rich variety of different managers over the next 10-20 years and consequently the club.
 
I'm not sure we'll have a title winning squad next season or the one after, regardless of who is manager. But I don't think Jose is that far off from having a team he trusts fully. 2-3 players. A centre back. A right wing option. And competition for Lukaku.

If the club went all in to back him I think we could have a team in January that suits his methods. It's not least because I think we're not that far off from that that I think he can turn it around. It's mainly Pogba who is problematic of the three players you mention. If Martial leaves Sanchez is guaranteed game time, and vice versa. Bailly would stay and be helped by having a reliable centre back brought in IMV.

But this won't happen :wenger:

Sanchez is already guaranteed game time with or without Martial. If we are not far off from where he can turn it around to win titles, we shouldn't be getting outplayed by Wolves and play this amount of dreadful football Bastian. We are not playing like a team that needs quality touch ups but a team that needs full on rebuild.

You are saying we'll turn a corner when most of us see endless circles.
 
Going back to when Mourinho was appointed, and that team he inherited from LVG. That team was better than the team we have now. So he hasn't improved us, he has made us worse. You can argue that we scraped 2nd last season. But we have played some dire, tumescent (Park the bus) football for all of 2018. He has fallen out with half the squad, publicly and in private. He has fallen out with the leadership at the club, publicly and privately.

I was backing him up until recently, but the night of the Derby game we started hearing all this stuff about Pogba never being Captain again. I have no idea why this story was overshadowing our preparation for the game, and then what happens? We end up being out-played by Derby County on our own pitch, who deservedly go into the next round. Then he makes this bizarre team selection against West Ham. And everybody looking at that line up was in agreement that it would be a disaster. And it was. He chops and changes players week in week out, doesn't play them for ages, then brings them back for big games when they have no match fitness. They play rubbish, so he drops them again! Then he fills gaps playing people out of position. He's been doing this since last January. Since the club made him sign Alexis. Another player who he puts in, pulls out. Plays on the left, the right or down the middle. Then he has his favourites, the ones who play no matter what. Matic could lie on his back blowing bubbles, and he'd still get the nod above Andreas Pereira, a player who can really unlock defences with pinpoint passes, and assists for our forwards, but will never get the chance. I would love to have seen Mourinho make a success of it, but it is so unlikely now with all the bridges he has burned. Lets face it, do we get rid of half our squad or bring in a new manager? It doesn't take a genius to work that one out.
 
For the survivalist folks, it's like you think that nobody else could do a better job than Mourinho. Otherwise why stick by him when everything is imploding?
 
It's still spurs and arsenal. They aren't going to finish on 80+ points

1) by january you might be out of the CL and out of top 4 race.
2) do you really believe replacing Pogba would be simple? That getting rid of Alexis would be simple, or that Mourinho would then trust Martial, a player he has shown ZERO trust in more than 2 years, to replace him? Or that Alexis, whom he's played extensively to appalling results, and whom he's reportedly fallen out as well, would start producing the goods with Martial gone?

I don't think any move we make will be easy, for the record. I do think if we got a good offer for Pogba and sold him that it would immediately solve some serious problems.

@beergod
Yeah, I understand that. For me, I would worry about the codependency that would inevitably start formulating as that new manager would need those players to perform for him and that would possibly extend their assessment periods further, some of those players have assessment periods turn into United careers.

Woodward is picking his replacement.

Very good.
 
Sanchez is already guaranteed game time with or without Martial. If we are not far off from where he can turn it around to win titles, we shouldn't be getting outplayed by Wolves and play this amount of dreadful football Bastian. We are not playing like a team that needs quality touch ups but a team that needs full on rebuild.

You are saying we'll turn a corner when most of us see endless circles.

The players we lack are fundamental to the defensive backline and to the balance of our build up play IMV. So it takes 2-3 players which isn't a lot, but not having that balance and that solid back 4 is quite messy.
 
Woodward is picking his replacement.
This actually reinforces the need to replace him now! Sack Mou now, and you pretty much have to hire Zizou. Wait for summer, and Welcome, Big Sam!
 
Of all the foolish things to factor in this has to the most trivial. These guys haven't watched football long enough to get a feel for when a 'soccer' team is spiralling downwards. It also says they feel his CV has earned him time to turn things around. The same CV that contains several 3rd season meltdowns where he couldn't turn things round. That's it. I've given up on CL football next season

I think the last line is more telling though.

The Glazers believe that the manager's track record has earned him the right to navigate the team through its current difficulties, but a further downturn in results would remove any cushion that Mourinho currently enjoys at Old Trafford.

Essentially, the rope is long but not endless. If the current slump continues, then Ed will pull the trigger even if it's midseason.

In fact, amidst all that nonsense in the article, a silver lining is that Ed is considering the non-availability of other managers besides Zidane as a major factor for not sacking Mourinho. At least it shows that he might be putting some thought into the next appointment being a fit for the club rather than a knee-jerk hire based on past achievements.
 
I think something special could happen with Mourinho at United if we keep faith with him and force the dressing room to bend to his will.

Ditch the manchild ringleader Pogba, bring in another Slav lieutenant like Savic and watch the rest instantaneously fall into line.

Or watch player power destroy a rich variety of different managers over the next 10-20 years and consequently the club.

What a load of rubbish :lol::lol:

Nothing in Mourinho's history points towards being able to turn around his inevitable meltdowns,this constant straw grasping over mythical 'player power' doesn't change that reality
 
I've been hoping Jose would win people over with performances and maybe results. But he hasn't and I'm pretty sure he won't.
One argument I hear to keep him is "who's going to replace him"
We're in a mess if that is the reason he's in the job.
Let him go, Carrick can't do any worse until we can get Giggs in place.
 
@Bastian even an unhappy, unmotivated Pogba is still consistently far and away your best player. Without him you got outplayed at home by Derby County. As things stand, do you honestly believe Mourinho would still be playing Pogba if could afford not to?

Replacing Pogba might sound easy, but it's anything but
 
The players we lack are fundamental to the defensive backline and to the balance of our build up play IMV. So it takes 2-3 players which isn't a lot, but not having that balance and that solid back 4 is quite messy.

Our problems have nothing to do with the back 4 though, it's around the other goal that we are really shit.
 
Way people talk about player power, you'd think Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich must have been complete clusterfecks for years, instead of the three most successful clubs of the last decade
 
Looks like we've also been charged for the late kick off. In fact, both teams have been charged from what i was reading.
 
@Bastian even an unhappy, unmotivated Pogba is still consistently far and away your best player. Without him you got outplayed at home by Derby County. As things stand, do you honestly believe Mourinho would still be playing Pogba if could afford not to?

Replacing Pogba might sound easy, but it's anything but

I disagree. When he's not feeling up for it it's a bad influence for the whole team. Especially because he's the supposed talisman. If Mourinho would drop him then that would be used as the stick to beat him with while it would further cement the cliques in the dressing room. If he were off (for good money) we'd be without his undoubted talents but we'd have one less huge problem to solve. I don't think his mentality is anywhere near good enough and as far as I'm concerned he's an absolute wanker. An immensely talented wanker, but a wanker nonetheless.

Our problems have nothing to do with the back 4 though, it's around the other goal that we are really shit.

Disagree with this also. I see what people refer to as the hand break in our setup being a way to mitigate the fact the manager doesn't have enough trust in his backline.
 
Way people talk about player power, you'd think Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich must have been complete clusterfecks for years, instead of the three most successful clubs of the last decade

It's because in england, it's the excuse that poor managers use when they are sacked. It's not their fault, it's "player power".
 
Way people talk about player power, you'd think Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich must have been complete clusterfecks for years, instead of the three most successful clubs of the last decade

Bayern Munchen are a well run club. Footballing expertise all over that place. Barcelona and Real Madrid are maybe more comparable, but the player power at Barca revolves around a consistently performing potentially GOAT player and at Madrid it was similar. You think Pogba's level of performances over the last 2 years would enable him to act like this at Madrid or Barca? I think he'd be booed by the fans.
 
It's because in england, it's the excuse that poor managers use when they are sacked. It's not their fault, it's "player power".

Exactly. We are expecting reactions from club, players and staff as if SAF is running the club. Mou is polar opposite to Fergie in terms of his own behavior but we still want loyalty, backing the manager etc.
 
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