Cambiasso is better than Carrick, while moutinho edges out kroos. Individually not a lot in it, although as a partnership I probably prefer Skizzo's duo.
The Modern Draft QF1: Skizzo vs crappycraperson | Votes have been reset - vote again
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
Cambiasso is better than Carrick, while moutinho edges out kroos. Individually not a lot in it, although as a partnership I probably prefer Skizzo's duo.
I don t believe he is a liability. @antohan who watches him for Uruguay commented that he is a handy defensive option. He was a part of Uruguay team that won the cops. Plus he is playing next to 2 excellent defenders in vidic and varane. He is also not being asked to do a tough job. He will mostly be playing as a defensive full back.
Plus it's harsh on Skizzo that he was leading by seven votes only for the votes to be resetted.
Both have different advantage. I think the former is more fluid, and the later is more robust.
Because most rate carrick higher than you do.
Also I am surprised that you of all people are ignoring Gerrard in midfield battle. He is much more likely than Silva to put himself about. Would Silva do a job on either mouthinho or carrick to stop them passing from deep? Gerrard is more likely to press someone like kroos
I think even cambiasso also only edges out carrick. It is a classic case of underrating your own. Both have similar CVS in terms of cl wins. Carrick main criticism is that he could not mix it up with likes of xavi and inesta. Cambiasso did better against barca with inter due to Jose set up. Swap in carrick for Motta in that team and carrick would also have been part of a team that won against that midfield
Picking Gerrard/Lampard/Terry/Drogba (any Chelsea/Pool legends really) means you lose the draft crappy.So Gerrard is a factor
I hate 'pool as much as anyone , heck I even hate Owen even when he was with us! But peak Gerrard > peak Silva for me. I am fine if others disagree but peak gerrard in right set up is better.
I've learnt it the hard way too. The Arsenal legends are loved though.
I got nothing
No arguments here, while I think Cambiasso is better there isn't a lot in it. I would probably prefer Carrick at his best due to his passing range and creativity. i did forget Gerrard influence, I actually think with him you will win the midfield battle. .
That's my fault - I've edited the title which may help.
Underrating Cambiasso's passing there. over the last 200 or so games...Carrick has 12 assists, and averages .7 key passes a game.
Cambiasso 11 assists, and 1.1 key passes a game.
Cambiasso seems to be type cast as some brute who just runs around. He isn't a bad passer by any stretch.
Sorry, crappy
Carrick's assist stats don't give the full picture since often he kicks off the attack from the deep playing the pass to someone out wide. Cambiasso can contribute to attacks but he is more likely to do that by his forward runs rather than playing deep lying playmaker role ala Carrick. Problem here is that if you want to afford your Athletico defense the same protection as their club then you need Cambiasso in a pure holding role, especially since his midfield partner is Kroos.
Crappy has a pretty much perfect setup for peak Gerrard and Aguero. That attack outscores skizzo's, IMO. Skizzo's defensive 4 is better but crappy's defense is better protected and has the better keeper behind it. The midfield is even, simply because I don't think Silva will be that effective without Kroos also playing higher up/Muller playing closer and centrally.
I just think crappy would win by a goal's margin.
I just think crappy would win by a goal's margin.
You are being unfair on him. He had a tendency to lose it earlier in his career, but that's when there was more hype around him after he moved to Barca. He has never received a straight red and only got sent off for two yellows three times in his career. Two of them were at that early stage and in high profile games, which is probably what sticks in your mind. It's usuallly the case with young, committed and physical Uruguayan defenders, they can turn great commitment into idiocy in the blink of an eye. Josema has occasionally showed the same flaw, but one I expect him to resolve with age just as much as Cáceres has.
He is a bloody good and very versatile defender, with great pace and athleticism. Suffice to say that amid the Luganos and Godíns it was always good to have his ability to recover. The game against Argentina at the last Copa was his coming of age IMO, they put Messi on his side, exactly what had got him sent off in our last meet. Prime Messi, in full flow, feck me, he gave us a torrid time and of course beat him at times, particularly once he was on a yellow, but time and time again when Messi beat the next man after him it was only to find Cáceres had recovered and was dispossessing him at his second opportunity. It doesn't sound like a great claim to fame, but facing Sterling I have no doubts he will have a great game and he is exactly the sort of defender that can negate him.
My point was that Cambiasso's passing isn't a weak point, and shouldn't be disregarded. Not to imply that he'd be the main playmaker in my team..but he doesn't need to be. Kroos would be more comparable to Carrick's role here. His range of passing and deep lying playmaking skills would be just as effective.
Cambiasso offers more protection than anyone in his midfield.
Muller drifts in throughout the game, and will always be available for passes. As will sterling and Lewandowski. Silva has plenty of options to link up and five an available player.
Fair enough though, thanks for the input
Only just ahd time to look at the teams in detail. feck me, those are two very good teams.
Skizzo strikes me as having marginally better individuals, but also has two questionable tactical decisions swapping Godín and Miranda and playing Cambiasso on the right. It's a rather extreme knee-jerk reaction to Ribery>>>Joaquín, but it seems to blissfully ignore StevieMe could end up having a field day with that left side sporting Evra, a Miranda not in his usual place and Kroos. I would swap Kroos and Cambiasso TBH, pronto.
Other than that, he also has the poorer keeper. Maybe this is one to settle on keeper quality?
Skizzo strikes me as having marginally better individuals, but also has two questionable tactical decisions swapping Godín and Miranda and playing Cambiasso on the right. It's a rather extreme knee-jerk reaction to Ribery>>>Joaquín, but it seems to blissfully ignore StevieMe could end up having a field day with that left side sporting Evra, a Miranda not in his usual place and Kroos. I would swap Kroos and Cambiasso TBH, pronto.
Other than that, he also has the poorer keeper. Maybe this is one to settle on keeper quality?
This is a close game. I prefer Crappy's attack.. the midfield's are even tactically.. Skizzo has big names but it isn't the type of midfield that is going to drastically outplay the other midfield, Cambiasso and Kroos ain't the type of pairing that will dominate the opposition - they can hold their own against most pairings though and will slightly edge this midfield battle as at the end of the day they are better.
In defence, prime Vidic and Varane is a good pairing and you've got a good pairing on the other side too. It is a even game, no clear cut winner for me.
In defence, prime Vidic and Varane is a good pairing and you've got a good pairing on the other side too. It is a even game, no clear cut winner for me.
Agreed about Cambiasso, and I should have clarified, as a duo Moutinho and Carrick offer better protection IMO.Cambiasso offers more protection than anyone in his midfield.
Muller drifts in throughout the game, and will always be available for passes. As will sterling and Lewandowski. Silva has plenty of options to link up and five an available player.
Fair enough though, thanks for the input
I'm not sure Muller would actually drift in much, with Ribery and Coentrao on that wing. I really wish you had either a genuine winger on the right and/or someone more box to box in midfield. Then, Silva would really thrive like he does at city. Here, he isn't completely ineffective, just not peaking, is my concern.
Thanks mate. Much appreciated!
I give the Atletico trio a lot of credit, but I'm not sure they'll be enough to stop the superb Gerrard-Ribery-Aguero trio without a better DM to support them.
I really don't like Cacares vs Sterling for crappy though.
Though call, goals will be scored at both ends imo
I really don't like Cacares vs Sterling for crappy though.
Though call, goals will be scored at both ends imo
Muller drifts in an out throughout games. Why do you think he suddenly wouldn't?
Seldom has a player had to play on his wrong side in draft games as poor old Cambiasso. Reckon Sterling's getting over-rated in the context of this pool, for all his flourishing talents he's clearly the weakest winger / attacking midfielder on the pitch.
I agree that both teams have goals in them. Made sure to mention as such in the OP. Feel I'm being more realistic than Crappy's claims of Cech possibly having a clean sheet.
No doubt that Ribery-Aguero-Gerrard are his main men (mentioned in the OP again) but we're set up to best negate those threats. On the flip side,I don't think he has the same chance of stopping our threats of Muller-Silva-Lewandowski...and that's not even factoring in Sterling against Caceres which could be a long day for Caceres there.
He also has the worst full back up against him. I'd back him to have the right skill set to flourish against someone known for rash tackles and errors though.
Ribery-Coentrao wouldn't let him, IMO. Sure you've got Cambiasso on that side as well, but that kind of overloading on that side is exactly what Gerrard will look to exploit I feel. How about switching Sterling and Muller, getting Sterling to run at Vidic?
Last time I checked Juve were 14 points clear at the top of Serie A, the Juve fans you quoted sound like a bunch of spoilt brats. In fairness, they ARE spoilt as far as excellent defenders are concerned, so it is somewhat understandable.
He is by all means not a defender whose game revolves around positioning, which is why he was rash in his early years and still is occasionally, but it is his pace that affords him that luxury. I don't think Sterling has anything on him, he certainly didn't show it at the World Cup.
That would actually be a great call. Müller is precisely the sort of player that Cáceres would struggle with and Sterling attacking the space between Coentrao and Vidic is exactly what you need to get Lewandowski out of Vidic's pocket.
Last match we got all sorts of complaints about Silva playing as an IF on the right, and Muller playing centrally...and it was said they weren't in their preferred roles, even though both had played those positions and roles many times.
Now you suggest completely switching flanks, to where Muller hasn't played anywhere near as often is just inviting the same criticism.
Yes, Sterling hype is high right now so no surprise I guess.
antohan has pretty much covered why Carcares wont be a liability. Besides I think you are giving Sterling too much credit if you think he will be the one deciding this match up.
Joaquin is also getting grossly overlooked here. He is the exactly the type of winger who can skin Evra out wide and make him think twice about those forward runs.
Didn't say he would decide the game. .. just that he would have a lot of luck against that style of defender.
The fact you followed up that content by saying Joaquin is now skinning Evra all game. ..is bs quite frankly.
You have the two weakest fullbacks....arguably by a good distance. If anyone needs to think twice about attacking, it's Coentrao. He leaves and Muller has even more space to ruin riot.
2 am here but looks like I will be going to the bed at a wrong time.
This narrative around Juanfran that Skizzo has cultivated about him nagting wingers like Hazard and now Ribery is way off. It is not a single man defensive job by him on a winger. It is a collective team effort by Athletico that aids the whole defensive set up.
Besides a prime Ribery, the one who was Bayern's best player in their treble season, would still get better of him. Then you are asking Godin to be involved in that battle leaving Miranda to fend off someone like Aguero. I feel much better about either Varane or Vidic taking care of Lewandoski in similar circumstances.
This narrative around Juanfran that Skizzo has cultivated about him nagting wingers like Hazard and now Ribery is way off. It is not a single man defensive job by him on a winger. It is a collective team effort by Athletico that aids the whole defensive set up.
Besides a prime Ribery, the one who was Bayern's best player in their treble season, would still get better of him. Then you are asking Godin to be involved in that battle leaving Miranda to fend off someone like Aguero. I feel much better about either Varane or Vidic taking care of Lewandoski in similar circumstances.
I do not get where this absurd overrating of Juanfran is coming from. Coentrao has proven himself in the Portuguese set up many a times. He is not a defensive liability in any sense. Even if he is caught upfield, Vidic-Varane are good enough to take care of Muller-Lewandoski duo.
And yes.. if Lennon can skin Evra then prime Joaquin most definitely can as well.
Although Caceres is indeed a liability I think Crappy has better player for player (with few exceptions) and superior attack. I feel Skizzo may be better using a 4-4-2 diamond, but he couldn't accommodate Sterling.
Apparently the same place you're getting the overrating of Coentrao and Caceres from.
Thomas Muller
- FIFA World Cup Golden Boot: 2010[113]
- FIFA World Cup Best Young Player: 2010[114]
- FIFA World Cup 2010 Most assists (3, shared with Mesut Özil, Bastian Schweinsteiger, Kaká, and Dirk Kuyt)
- Bayerischer Sportpreis: 2010[157]
- Silbernes Lorbeerblatt: 2010,[158] 2014[159]
- World Soccer Young Player of the Year: 2010[160]
- ESM Team of the Year: 2012–13[163]
- UEFA Best Player in Europe Award 2013 (6th place)
- UEFA Best Player in Europe Award 2014 (4th place)
- FIFA World Cup Silver Ball: 2014[164]
- FIFA World Cup Silver Boot: 2014[165]
- FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 2014[166]
- FIFA World Cup Dream Team: 2014[167]
- Most FIFA World Cups with at least five goals (2010–2014); record shared with Teófilo Cubillas (1970, 1978) & Miroslav Klose (2002–2006)
And the Aaron Lennon thing is a lazy argument regarding Evra. I'd say he's done more than enough to show he's not a liability defensively. There's a reason he was widely considered one of (if not the) best left back in the world for a period of time. Yes, his attacking ability helped that assessment, but if he was suspect defensively, he wouldn't be rated as highly as he was.
Müller is not on the peak with 25 now. And maybe we should tell that he completed the 25 CL goals last weeks - half a year prior to the time a CR7 did... And he scored a lot of them in final stages and/or against teams out of the top nations...
Agree. Of all the talk of players being underrated...I think Muller is getting the worst deal here. He's a handful for any full back, and can find space against some of the best defences...and here he is up against a full back who has been given pretty much a free reign to attack. He'd do all kinds of damage with that amount of freedom. Especially with Lewandowski occupying most of Vidic's attention.
Agreed. Muller alone almost made a deciding factor for voting for you. I'm surprised with how underrated he is.