On the Kroos discussion.
Firstly, we are not playing a dynamic box to box duo (Scholes-Keane) but rather a deep-ish more double pivot like type of a duo (Scholes-Carrick or even Didi-Zito, Gerson-Clodaldo for eg) whereby the physical requirements heavily differ from the former box to box type duo with intelligence, positioning and discipline being more critical than sheer graft, although a fair amount of industry is required as ever (which both my midfielders provide).
The latter version of Scholes, Gerson and Didi were hardly the most dynamic of players capable of running their socks off but were capable of putting in a shift (less so for Gerson) and defending intelligently (interceptions, positioning, anticipation etc) which is exactly what Kroos is capable of.
Cambiasso functions as the DM who provides much of the 'raw' defending with his graft, steel, defensive solidity, tracking runners etc whilst recycling the ball and occasionally playing long/through balls.
As a pair they would function seamlessly and will carry out their tactical responsibilities to a tee.
I don't think that's true at all, he's simply played in a midfield that doesn't have a 2nd defensive midfielder next to him at the moment, which is just silly. Kroos does his fair share of defensive work and playing next to Cambiasso is certainly a lot different to playing behind Isco and James. Real was flying and looked defensively very solid with Modric and Kroos together in the first half of the season. Kroos is also obviously tired after a long season at Bayern with the World Cup in the summer and basically starting every game for Real Madrid and Germany this season. So judging him on the past few weeks, when the whole Real Madrid side stopped working hard seems really unfair.
Exactly this. It is incredibly harsh to judge him from his time at Real as they basically do not have the defensive steel to complement Kroos's more subtle and intelligent play. Still like you've stated, Kroos and Modric did a remarkable job of holding the midfield together defensively and making it function seamlessly at the start of the season.
It is also no surprise Balu, that the side (esp the midfield) stopped functioning when Modric became injured for 3 months since November. This left their midfield completely shorn of any sort of graft whilst leaving Kroos overburdened alongside 2 attacking midfielders and 2 lazy inside forwards. Things people need to seriously take note of when analyzing Real's and their midfield issues in recent months when it was all going brilliantly initially, whereby they even went on a record setting run iirc. Typical stupid muppeting by Real to let go of Alonso and Di Maria whilst neglecting their need for a DM.
He really needs runners around him at Madrid. Off the ball defensively he's been lacking intensity completely for Madrid. His positioning is world class though so he gets away with it to some extent but he's a bit of a roundabout if the opponents has great mobility and pace and his two midfield colleagues aren't there covering too.
You are right in that his positioning is excellent and that he does need a fair bit of graft and steel alongside him, and he couldn't ask for anyone better in Cambiasso. This in addition to the tenacity and industry of Müller, Sterling (a certain extent) and Lewandowski from the attacking positions. Behind him, Evra and Juanfran are extremely industrious and excellent defensively whilst Godín-Miranda are an absolutely rock solid duo.
Someone here labelled us an extremely gritty team overall earlier and they were right as it really is high on teamwork and work rate throughout the entire team.
Contrast this with the midfield situation at Real, which is absurd to say the least and they really are asking too much from him, esp since Modric became injured. A job which even the best of defensive midfielders could struggle with alongside 2 lightweight attacking midfielders, 2 lazy inside forwards, 2 extremely adventurous WBs (with Marcelo non existent defensively) and 2 rather rash and suspect CBs in Ramos and Pepe. Tbf both Isco and James have improved their work rate this season but still... This is why I think it's extremely unfair to judge him from his current stint at Real.
While I don want to discuss this further, the only question about Kroos in a 2 man MF is that if that his best role or not. At WC he played with 2 CMs alongside and even at Bayern he seems to his his stride alongside Thiago/Schwein with Lahm/Martinez behind him across 2 different seasons.
He has played as part of a midfield duo before and has excelled (CL final against Chelsea for eg). IIRC, Kroos and Schweinsteiger played as a duo mostly in the 11/12 (with Gustavo rotating in at times) for both Germany and Bayern.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_UEFA_Champions_League_Final
http://www.goal.com/en/match/germany-vs-brazil/1064254/lineups?ICID=MP_MS_2
Anyway I'd say his best position is in CM where he can truly exhibit his fantastic vision, long range passes and run games. He doesn't have the directness and pace to be a modern #10 and even when he played ahead of Martinez-Schweinsteiger it was him as an advanced CM rather than a true AM or a #10.
As Cruyff stated
"He’s doing everything right: the pace in his passes is great and he sees everything. It’s nearly perfect."
Scholes claimed Kroos is "a top-class central midfielder", was the player that United most needed to sign.
He is the type of player who'd run the game at CM if the right platform is provided for him and I'd say it is here.
but he is similar to Yaya Toure in that he can't really hold a midfield on his own, he needs a three and he needs a free role or he gets run over. I'm surprised you didn't take Modric and for me personally I think that pairing of yours is a tad slow and not dynamic but you have a cracking side so you get away with them as a two but its not a stand out midfield pair to me and I still see that area as a slight weak point.
He is nothing like Yaya Toure in that he has to be given a free role in a trio.
As I've shown above he has excelled in a duo and he also tends to really put a shift in and covers plenty of ground.
Top 10 most ground covered in 13/14 CL.
http://talksport.com/football/europ...-stars-who-cover-more-ground-champions-league
4th most distance covered in the WC
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/world-cup-players-with-longest-distance-covered.393362/
Covering most distance against Barça in el classico
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...eone-changed-Spanish-football-1-000-days.html
Covering most distance vs Portugal in WC 2014 etc and so many more examples
He also averages 2+ tackles and 1.5+ interceptions generally throughout his career despite playing as an AM or winger at times.
(Under defensive segment)
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/31772/History/Toni-Kroos
So he's definitely not a luxury midfielder who has to play in a trio. He lacks dynamism, no two ways about it but he can play in a pivot to a high level and has done so whilst being industrious and defensively able.
Cambiasso is dynamic, most certainly not slow and complements Kroos brilliantly like Schweinsteiger did earlier on. We simply didn't take Modric as Cambiasso is the better midfielder and is the more suitable player for our midfield. It is a midfield that we'd be happy to play in a final.
I don't need to advertise Kroos's pedigree as he's already shown what a magnificent player he has been for Germany and Bayern, winning the WC (scoring 2 goals & 4 assists with an average rating of 9.79 out of 10 and rated as the best player of WC by Castrol index) and the treble. Plus he's post 1990!!!
We'll save this discussion for the match day thread but I just wanted to address it and not fester, becoming an overblown issue later on.
Crappy I'd like to remind you that I have a Baxter-Peters sized weapon for future discussions though, as
@Gio would testify
.
