The MMA thread

MaxiPaxi said:
Whom are others? I’ve Khabib.. and then Maybe Max.. and after that I’ve no clue.. Yan is really good and Sterling is fecking lethal too. That division is absolutely stacked. That’s what I mean, welterweight and above just feels cumbersome.
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I just think middleweight is being looked at at as cumbersome in retrospect because Izzy has made relatively light work of it.

There isn’t really much for him to do there now. Cannonier / Hermannson and then he needs to shift up to LHW. I know people are going to try and push a Whittaker re-match but that’s a waste of time imo.

There will be a lot of hype for Adesanya to fight Jones but I don’t see that happening. Jones is pissing around and I’m sure they will look at matching him up to Miocic.

I think Adesanya-Blachowicz is a great stylistic match up if Izzy moves up.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Whom are others? I’ve Khabib.. and then Maybe Max.. and after that I’ve no clue.. Yan is really good and Sterling is fecking lethal too. That division is absolutely stacked. That’s what I mean, welterweight and above just feels cumbersome.
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I agree in general that lightweight or thereabouts is where the best action is, but think it’s harsh to dispute that Adesanya is a great fighter in his own right. He’s a great technician and physical specimen, with great IQ.
 
Feed Me said:
I just think middleweight is being looked at at as cumbersome in retrospect because Izzy has made relatively light work of it.

There isn’t really much for him to do there now. Cannonier / Hermannson and then he needs to shift up to LHW. I know people are going to try and push a Whittaker re-match but that’s a waste of time imo.

There will be a lot of hype for Adesanya to fight Jones but I don’t see that happening. Jones is pissing around and I’m sure they will look at matching him up to Miocic.

I think Adesanya-Blachowicz is a great stylistic match up if Izzy moves up.
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We know why nothing happens above welterweight and even that weight - nothing happens. I’ll try to give a coherent answer when I wake back up... I’m pretty sure I won’t like.. Blacho has been plugins away for a long time and I feel like Adesanya would be a clear opponent for him. Again.. past welterweight, it’s absolutely boring.
 
The highlight of that was definitely Costa coach getting shit talked by Adesanya. Israel is a man child but he's 10 times worse
 
Dana promised fight of the year and it wasn’t even fight of the night. Dana will never hype up a fight this way including Izzy again!
And we learned Costa is pretty clueless beyond his impressive power. It will take some time before he gets the chance at the belt again.

So so disappointed with this fight
 
Gordon S said:
Dana promised fight of the year and it wasn’t even fight of the night. Dana will never hype up a fight this way including Izzy again!
And we learned Costa is pretty clueless beyond his impressive power. It will take some time before he gets the chance at the belt again.

So so disappointed with this fight
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He definitely will...he's a promoter, he'll probably say it for Khabib vs Gaejthe
 
Gordon S said:
Of course, he will hype up lots of fights, just not the ones with Izzy in it. Those fights will always be more or less boring.
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I'm not s fan of his personality but he's definitely not a boring fighter. The Yoel fight was awful but other than that he's KOed Whittaker, Costa, Brunson and had the fight of the year with Gastelum. He's not boring to watch. Dana will hype it as he's potentially one of the best ever.
 
Oggmonster said:
I'm not s fan of his personality but he's definitely not a boring fighter. The Yoel fight was awful but other than that he's KOed Whittaker, Costa, Brunson and had the fight of the year with Gastelum. He's not boring to watch. Dana will hype it as he's potentially one of the best ever.
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If you look at it outside acceptance he is an extreme counter-striker who is mostly reliant on his opponent committing to anything for him to then look entertaining, I guess he can be seen as an extremely boring fighter because he'll never lead outside of smashing a leg to bits or the odd, relatively risk-free high kick from a mile away.

Romero and Silva were fights where, if he wasn't being attacked, he was willing to do 'nothing' for as long as required, there was no point where he was willing to simply take over the fight. I think the biggest difference in why it's less accepted by a general audience when contrasted with other extreme counter-strikers is the element of risk is the lowest of them all with Adesanya. Silva did his thing in punch range and offered apparent openings that could have him k.o'd for any mistake. Adesanya rarely puts his neck on the line in the same kind of fashion.

Absolutely nothing wrong in Adesanya's approach, but if people believe there's no danger to him, it's just an exhibition for a fighter a lot of people simply don't like. His post-fight blurb probably loses people as quickly as he initially gained them for a performance.

I think denigrating his opponents after the fact isn't right though. If Adesanya is the common denominator in making others crumble, he obviously deserves credit.
 
expected more from Costa but what a performance from adesanya. Speed and timing will always beat power.
 
Fortitude said:
If you look at it outside acceptance he is an extreme counter-striker who is mostly reliant on his opponent committing to anything for him to then look entertaining, I guess he can be seen as an extremely boring fighter because he'll never lead outside of smashing a leg to bits or the odd, relatively risk-free high kick from a mile away.

Romero and Silva were fights where, if he wasn't being attacked, he was willing to do 'nothing' for as long as required, there was no point where he was willing to simply take over the fight. I think the biggest difference in why it's less accepted by a general audience when contrasted with other extreme counter-strikers is the element of risk is the lowest of them all with Adesanya. Silva did his thing in punch range and offered apparent openings that could have him k.o'd for any mistake. Adesanya rarely puts his neck on the line in the same kind of fashion.

Absolutely nothing wrong in Adesanya's approach, but if people believe there's no danger to him, it's just an exhibition for a fighter a lot of people simply don't like. His post-fight blurb probably loses people as quickly as he initially gained them for a performance.

I think denigrating his opponents after the fact isn't right though. If Adesanya is the common denominator in making others crumble, he obviously deserves credit.
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He took control of the fight last night though? Costa barely threw and was destroyed.
 
cyberman said:
He took control of the fight last night though? Costa barely threw and was destroyed.
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He'll dismantle a leg on the outside all day - not sure the head-hunting type of fan appreciates that.

His K.O's are nearly always going to be someone coming onto him and being sparked.
 
He fights smart and dangerous. The tiki taka comparison is a good one. Its basically the most efficient way to fight. Reduce risk in the fight and long term for your health. .
 
The recipe for beating Adesanya is clearly there - it’s to fight the Gastelum fight except better, which Costa is clearly capable of given his usual style. Instead, he attempted to be patient to preserve energy for a potential 5 rounds which simply resulted in Adesanya calmly beavering away at his leg, and when it was tenderized enough he went for the predictable head shots. Ultimately, you have to put relentless pressure on Adesanya to beat him. He was knocked down multiple times vs Gastelum so we know it’s possible. Instead, Costa did the exact opposite and barely fought - which reminded me a bit of how Ngannou approached the Derek Lewis fight. Costa will be back imo and they will do it again, especially given how rubbish the rest of the division is.
 
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For some reason I thought costa stood a chance. Amazing how little I know.:lol:

I dont see anyone in the division beating izzy. What he did to whittaker and costa is freakish. He is a level above them all.

Jon jones, get on that diet son. This has to happen.
 
Raoul said:
The recipe for beating Adesanya is clearly there - it’s to fight the Gastelum fight except better, which Costa is clearly capable of given his usual style. Instead, he attempted to be patient to preserve energy for a potential 5 rounds which simply resulted in Adesanya calmly beavering away at his leg, and when it was tenderized enough he he want for the predictable head shots. Ultimately, you have to put relentless pressure on Adesanya to beat him. He was knocked down multiple times vs Gastelum so we know it’s possible. Instead, Costa did the exact opposite and barely fought - which reminded me a bit of how Ngannou approached the Derek Lewis fight. Costa will be back imo and they will do it again, especially given how rubbish the rest of the division is.
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This is all great theory. It’s the same sort of stuff that gets pedalled out by people who say Khabib can be gotten. People used to same the same about Mayweather in boxing too. There’s something about a counter attacking style that leads to underrating in many respects. You see the same narratives in football as well.

I could do a 180 of your analysis and say that Izzy controlled the speed and distance in the fight, tenderised (lovely phrase from you) the leading leg and then finished it with the precision head shots. The guy gets nowhere near the credit he deserves.
 
Dante said:
I'm no expert on MMA, but Adesanya's style reminded me of the way Floyd Mayweather used to box.
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You're right. He's 'tricky to hit' according to the former middleweight champion Whittaker.

His defensive moment is as good as you will see in the UFC.

Floyd was also tricky to hit.
Its beautiful to watch.
 
Feed Me said:
This is all great theory. It’s the same sort of stuff that gets pedalled out by people who say Khabib can be gotten. People used to same the same about Mayweather in boxing too. There’s something about a counter attacking style that leads to underrating in many respects. You see the same narratives in football as well.

I could do a 180 of your analysis and say that Izzy controlled the speed and distance in the fight, tenderised (lovely phrase from you) the leading leg and then finished it with the precision head shots. The guy gets nowhere near the credit he deserves.
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The same thing applies to Khabib - Poirier was literally within a few seconds of submitting him. There are ways to fight that make top fighters very uncomfortable. Reyes figured it out with Jones, Miocic with Ngannou, Gastelum with Adesanya. If you do the opposite then you will wind up with something like last night’s result, so Costa is going to have to take a long hard look at why his coaches set him up to fight against his own strengths and make the appropriate adjustments.
 
predator said:
For some reason I thought costa stood a chance. Amazing how little I know.:lol:

I dont see anyone in the division beating izzy. What he did to whittaker and costa is freakish. He is a level above them all.

Jon jones, get on that diet son. This has to happen.
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Jones will fight at HW, if at all.
 
Raoul said:
Jones will fight at HW, if at all.
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Yeah, thats Izzys problem now if he clears the division. The division above him is dead and he would have to chop off a leg to make 170. Unless Usman or somebody wants to lose and move up then he could be stuck for interesting fights for a while.
 
Raoul said:
The same thing applies to Khabib - Poirier was literally within a few seconds of submitting him. There are ways to fight that make top fighters very uncomfortable. Reyes figured it out with Jones, Miocic with Ngannou, Gastelum with Adesanya. If you do the opposite then you will wind up with something like last night’s result, so Costa is going to have to take a long hard look at why his coaches set him up to fight against his own strengths and make the appropriate adjustments.
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I think you hit the nail on the hit with your original post – I think Costa was trying to pace himself for five rounds and, given his usual style, it resulted in an overly conservative approach.

I agree with your general point that pressurising is a way to put the top guys under the cosh, but someone like Izzy will have taken a lot from his bout with Gastelum, not least adjustments he might need to make under such a barrage in future.

Costa could have definitely been more competitive and on the front foot though, it seems like a wasted opportunity and we know Dana prefers fighters who go for it when given their chance, so he is probably kicking himself but – as you say – he can come again.

Izzy needs to move up a weight sooner rather than later or he’s not going to get the props he deserves.
 
cyberman said:
Yeah, thats Izzys problem now if he clears the division. The division above him is dead and he would have to chop off a leg to make 170. Unless Usman or somebody wants to lose and move up then he could be stuck for interesting fights for a while.
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There’s good fights Izzy can take at LHW while we wait for Jones and Miocic to get it on. I wouldn’t like to see him at 170 personally.
 
Raoul said:
The recipe for beating Adesanya is clearly there - it’s to fight the Gastelum fight except better, which Costa is clearly capable of given his usual style. Instead, he attempted to be patient to preserve energy for a potential 5 rounds which simply resulted in Adesanya calmly beavering away at his leg, and when it was tenderized enough he he want for the predictable head shots. Ultimately, you have to put relentless pressure on Adesanya to beat him. He was knocked down multiple times vs Gastelum so we know it’s possible. Instead, Costa did the exact opposite and barely fought - which reminded me a bit of how Ngannou approached the Derek Lewis fight. Costa will be back imo and they will do it again, especially given how rubbish the rest of the division is.
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Seen you make the Gastelum <-> Costa comparison a few times, but I don't think their styles are interchangeable and what works for Gastelum, and the reason why he manages to land how he does, comes from his initial movement (lateral as well as on the centre line) and the way he times his entries, which Costa simply doesn't do and has had no need to do with his raw power and willingness to blindly exchange as long as he lands himself.

Gastelum is a tricker, more limber and creative customer with more guile and ring smarts than Costa - he can walk his man down and make him more wary of the exchange and he's really mean when he gets inside. He also ties up the lead hand, which messes with range and prevents the shape up for a bunch of things Costa got hit with last night.



You'll see just in that following part what I'm referring to and why Adesanya could not set his feet, which led to him using hands and opening himself up to what followed. Check out round 3 for a microcosm of what I'm talking about. Costa just cannot fight like that, the lateral movement, the timing, the constant, unsettling footwork.

None of that stuff is Costa.

Anyone that said there was a gulf between them in the standup was proven right last night because Adesanya's craft shut down the avenues to simply bomb him out or even try to. You're being kind saying it was more a tactic to last the full 25 than a point of realisation from Costa and then a head scratching moment where he was trying to figure out what he could actually do in there - Gastelum has no such issues as he simply knows how to exploit stances and positioning or even prevent it from materialising with his approach.

If they do run it back, Costa is going to have to work out how to get inside with the tools he has because if it is on tracks, there's no reason to think the same thing won't happen again. Adesanya's movement was a bigger problem for Costa in this fight than I thought was possible as I thought Costa could walk through and set his stall, but with Adesanya's equidistance, there was no opportunity for Costa to even try and barrel in.

I agree with what you said about Gastelum himself, though.
 
Fortitude said:
Seen you make the Gastelum <-> Costa comparison a few times, but I don't think their styles are interchangeable and what works for Gastelum, and the reason why he manages to land how he does, comes from his initial movement (lateral as well as on the centre line) and the way he times his entries, which Costa simply doesn't do and has had no need to do with his raw power and willingness to blindly exchange as long as he lands himself.

Gastelum is a tricker, more limber and creative customer with more guile and ring smarts than Costa - he can walk his man down and make him more wary of the exchange and he's really mean when he gets inside. He also ties up the lead hand, which messes with range and prevents the shape up for a bunch of things Costa got hit with last night.



You'll see just in that following part what I'm referring to and why Adesanya could not set his feet, which led to him using hands and opening himself up to what followed. Check out round 3 for a microcosm of what I'm talking about. Costa just cannot fight like that, the lateral movement, the timing, the constant, unsettling footwork.

None of that stuff is Costa.

Anyone that said there was a gulf between them in the standup was proven right last night because Adesanya's craft shut down the avenues to simply bomb him out or even try to. You're being kind saying it was more a tactic to last the full 25 than a point of realisation from Costa and then a head scratching moment where he was trying to figure out what he could actually do in there - Gastelum has no such issues as he simply knows how to exploit stances and positioning or even prevent it from materialising with his approach.

If they do run it back, Costa is going to have to work out how to get inside with the tools he has because if it is on tracks, there's no reason to think the same thing won't happen again. Adesanya's movement was a bigger problem for Costa in this fight than I thought was possible as I thought Costa could walk through and set his stall, but with Adesanya's equidistance, there was no opportunity for Costa to even try and barrel in.

I agree with what you said about Gastelum himself, though.
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The common thread between Gastelum and Costa is that they are known as aggresive fighters who take the fight to the opponent. Gastelum blows hot and cold but was at his absolute peak v Adesanya and provided the blueprint on how to beat him. You aggressively hunt him down and pressure him (Daniel Cormier style). What you don't do is attempt to not deliver strikes to preserve energy since you're never going to outcardio Adesanya anyway. Costa just came in with the wrong approach and it ended up costing him the fight.

There are other fighters like Khabib where fighters are incentivized to not take the fight to them because it will only result in them getting taken down and mauled for the rest of the fight. Adesanya is not in that camp and is vulnerable to aggression - which going into last night was a strength of Costa's - he just chose the wrong tactics that played right into Adesanya's hands.

 
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I mean I said this ages ago but Costa had no hope and was always going to get destroyed. I’m going to give him props though because I thought he’d charge in in his normal style and just get wrecked coming in and smashed all over the shop.

He still got absolutely outclassed and it was as perfect a performance as you could ask for from Adesanya. Striking on another level.
 
Raoul said:
The common thread between Gastelum and Costa is that they are known as aggresive fighters who like to take it the opponent. Gastelum blows hot and cold but was at his absolute peak v Adesanya and provided the blueprint on how to beat him. You aggressive hunt him down and put pressure on him (Daniel Cormier style). What you don't do is attempt to not deliver strikes to preserve energy since you're never going to outcardio Adesanya. Costa just came in with the wrong approach and it end up costing him the fight.

There are other fighters like Khabib where fighters should be incentivized to not take the fight to them because it will only result in them getting taken down and mauled for the rest of the fight. Adesanya is not in that camp and is vulnerable to aggression - which going into last night was a strength of Costa's - he just chose the wrong tactics that played right into Adesanya's hands.

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You're missing the fundamental point that to apply pressure, you have to have an inlet. Adesanya made Costa redundant last night, not him preserving himself - his style is to go forward, pretty much in straight lines with no guile; Adesanya cut that off at source time and time again, which is why Costa couldn't even attempt to tee off on him. If he can't barrel through, he has to go round, which is not his style whilst it's something Gastelum is excellent at.

Being aggressive has more to it than just the desire to do so. Costa doesn't have the smarts nor the ability of the people you're pairing him off with. Cormier is one of the best wrestlers in the entire sport his approach and aggression always has a method and he's also one of the best dirty boxers in the sport, too.

My overarching point here is that blueprint you're mentioning, only a select few can follow and I don't think Costa's shown the range to think he's one of them.

I thought the fight would be competitive because Costa would be able to walk Adesanya down, but if Adesanya fights like he did (keeping equidistant), Costa doesn't have the tools to get around that in the way Gastelum, Cormier etc. do. As I posted with the vid, Gastelum circles all the time with fantastic lateral movement; he sometimes goes back and forth on the central line; sometimes he shoots and a lot of the time, he'll tie up the lead hand all of which alters the options and thought process for his opponent (Adesanya in this instance), Costa does 1 from those 4 things a lot and very little from the remainder. He hasn't the means to go out there and use aggression in the same way as someone like Gastelum.
 
Fortitude said:
You're missing the fundamental point that to apply pressure, you have to have an inlet. Adesanya made Costa redundant last night, not him preserving himself - his style is to go forward, pretty much in straight lines with no guile; Adesanya cut that off at source time and time again, which is why Costa couldn't even attempt to tee off on him. If he can't barrel through, he has to go round, which is not his style whilst it's something Gastelum is excellent at.

Being aggressive has more to it than just the desire to do so. Costa doesn't have the smarts nor the ability of the people you're pairing him off with. Cormier is one of the best wrestlers in the entire sport his approach and aggression always has a method and he's also one of the best dirty boxers in the sport, too.

My overarching point here is that blueprint you're mentioning, only a select few can follow and I don't think Costa's shown the range to think he's one of them.

I thought the fight would be competitive because Costa would be able to walk Adesanya down, but if Adesanya fights like he did (keeping equidistant), Costa doesn't have the tools to get around that in the way Gastelum, Cormier etc. do. As I posted with the vid, Gastelum circles all the time with fantastic lateral movement; he sometimes goes back and forth on the central line; sometimes he shoots and a lot of the time, he'll tie up the lead hand all of which alters the options and thought process for his opponent (Adesanya in this instance), Costa does 1 from those 4 things a lot and very little from the remainder. He hasn't the means to go out there and use aggression in the same way as someone like Gastelum.
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We can agree to disagree here.

It was clear from the get go last night that Costa's game plan was to take it slowly and preserve energy for the full 5 rounds. By doing so, he squandered his greatest strength (aggression) and in the process missed out on exploiting Adesanya's greatest weakness (the ability to absorb relentless pressure). There was nothing Adesanya did to Costa last night that prevented him from being aggressive. He just chose not to and after a round or so of getting his lead leg tenderized, went into round two largely deprived of the option of being more aggressive because his legs were 75% gone by then. Tactics win and lose fights and last night was no exception.
 
Raoul said:
We can agree to disagree here.

It was clear from the get go last night that Costa's game plan was to take it slowly and preserve energy for the full 5 rounds. By doing so, he squandered his greatest strength (aggression) and in the process missed out on exploiting Adesanya's greatest weakness (the ability to absorb relentless pressure). There was nothing Adesanya did to Costa last night that prevented him from being aggressive. He just chose not to and after a round or so of getting his lead leg tenderized, went into round two largely deprived of the option of being more aggressive because his legs were 75% gone by then. Tactics win and lose fights and last night was no exception.
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How do you expect Costa to get in given what I've tried to make clear as to why that's not viable with his skilset?

Do you think the next fight he just barrels into Adesanya and things subsequently turn out different?

I am curious because the template of Gastelum runs on a very different set of tracks to Costa, which is why that fight was so different and challenging for Adesanya compared to this one. From the outset, all the things I've mentioned were in effect - and as stated, they are not viable for Costa as he simply doesn't fight that way. There's a systematic pattern to the way Gastelum approached the fight all of which were not only mentally taxing for Adesanya, but physically, too. He couldn't kick because of the lateral movement and short steps and he was forced to use his hands far more than in this fight because of the way in which Gastelum can close distance (not simply that he was being aggressive).
 
Fortitude said:
How do you expect Costa to get in given what I've tried to make clear as to why that's not viable with his skilset?

Do you think the next fight he just barrels into Adesanya and things subsequently turn out different?

I am curious because the template of Gastelum runs on a very different set of tracks to Costa, which is why that fight was so different and challenging for Adesanya compared to this one. From the outset, all the things I've mentioned were in effect - and as stated, they are not viable for Costa as he simply doesn't fight that way. There's a systematic pattern to the way Gastelum approached the fight all of which were not only mentally taxing for Adesanya, but physically, too. He couldn't kick because of the lateral movement and short steps and he was forced to use his hands far more than in this fight because of the way in which Gastelum can close distance (not simply that he was being aggressive).
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He's not supposed to "get in", he's supposed to put pressure on Adesanya instead of just sitting back and getting bombarded with leg kicks for an entire round. If you can't play to your strengths and exploit your opponent's weaknesses, then you're going to lose; which is precisely how it went down last night. You have to put relentless pressure on Adesanya and punch him in the face, knock him down, and play dirty to beat him.
 
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Gordon S said:
Dana promised fight of the year and it wasn’t even fight of the night. Dana will never hype up a fight this way including Izzy again!
And we learned Costa is pretty clueless beyond his impressive power. It will take some time before he gets the chance at the belt again.

So so disappointed with this fight
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Yet it was utterly spectacular save for being one -sided.

The complete dismantling and ridiculing of Costa, who will be crying into the night.

if you expected a brawl, you simply haven’t been paying close enough attention;)
 
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