In fairness there are potential question marks against pretty much everybody in the GOAT conversation in each division. Whether that be drug use, luck, quality of era, ducking rivals/being selective about when they fight them and even their personality/approach. It's always a nice debate to have but there are so many variables in play it'll never have an answer.
The MMA thread
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
Good point. I think GSP is the closest with the least question marks but even then there are things one can bring up to discredit his claim.
I've just clocked that I missed out style/entertainment value as a partial criteria as well. So many variables that it'll always be entirely subjective. I do share your opinion that GSP has the least question marks against him but aye, even his claim has a few holes in it.
To be fair you could go through most fighters records and pick holes in their wins and Im not saying it was the most impressive win streak in MMA history. But he can only beat what’s put in front of him. And he won all 4 high pressure title fights In a row mostly in very impressive style.
He is the champion of cringe though.
Yeah I saw that! When the Fertittas left I though Dana's power would diminish but no...
UFC is a monopoly in the mma market but since a monopoly is not illegal, it can be...
I hate that they ended WEC and Strikeforce.
Been watching lots of WEC/Strikeforce fights recently. Gaethje was phenomenal in WEC back then too, albeit in a gung ho i'll knock you out before you knock me out type way with some wrasslin thrown in!
I feel like we will never get a kill or be killed fight with Gaethje again. A shame because what he did against Michael Johnson was beautiful. But that was never going to work against the top five, top three...
Although I do hope the thrill of the fight brings that style back again
Gaethje was in the WEC?
I mean WSOF before it became PFL. Brain fart sorry
No worries mate, you just had me wondering for a second if Gaethje was fighting at 17-18 or something.
Does anyone think McGregor can beat Nunes ?
Sort of in a Billy Jean King v Bobby Riggs situation ?
Sort of in a Billy Jean King v Bobby Riggs situation ?
Of course he could
Of course he could
I don't know man. Did you see what she did to Cyborg ? If Conor went down to 145, I think Dana may have to consider this.
She's obviously insanely skilled but I just can't see her taking a fully connected Mcgregor left hook to the chin.
"if" she could then i'm sure she or Valentina could give any man a decent rumble in terms of skill, but women just don't really have that sort of 1 punch KO power do they? I can't remember a womens fight ever having a flash KO.
Thinking about it, she's another fighter who deserves to be higher than McGregor on the GOAT list.
BIG bet on Rose - Andrade isn't what she used to be.
100%. She is the GOAT by some distance on the female side.
She should be near the top
You as switching camps now?!!! You were always pro Valentina when it came down to her and Nunes IIRC.
I think whether she remains the GOAT depends on whether Valentina can meet her at 135 and dominate her.
Problem is, Valentina needs Nunes more than the Nunes needs Valentina. They should just fight each other 5 more times and settle it!
She's the only one with a realistic chance of beating Nunes, especially givenn that she has continued improving since switching divisions.
Andrade hasn't evolved from her Darlek exterminate! tactics. Needs to vary it up, but I think she's incapable of doing that.
Everybody made weight for tomorrow.
Gus out of 'retirement' to fight Werdum at HW
She would get absolutely murdered by McGregor. He is an idiot but he is a world class fighter. It would probably go similar to the Cerrone fight. She would be overwhelmed very early.
People don’t like McGregor for the person that he is, but he is still phenomenal and in the top 10 fighters ever to do it.
A female fighter wouldn’t stand a chance against him. There is too big a disparity in speed and power.
That’s not to take anything away from Nunes though. She is fantastic and in the top 10 on her own merit too.
That's highly debatable and I'm being generous with the debatable part.
I don’t think it is. I think he has damaged his reputation through his own behavior but his phenomenon and popularity was bred from how breathtaking his stride into the sport was.
Some of his own arguments are spoofs to favor himself, but I agree with him that finishes are a big part of fighting and do have some weight. His influence has been massive too.
First ever champ champ and destroyed legendary fighters like Alvarez and Aldo. He maybe has more to do to really redeem his image and cement his legacy but he would be in my top 10 right now.
I understand the argument against him being in the top 10, that is all opinion, but he is an absolutely lethal and accurate striker.
Alvarez was rubbish. Plus Conor lost to Nate and got humiliated by Khabib. He's definitely not top 10 ever.
It has nothing to do with his image and the fact that you talk about Alavarez and Aldo as legendary is kind of why I would say that it's debatable, his achievements are kind of overblown while others are underrated. The Aldo that he fought wasn't the great Aldo.
I would put in the same group than the likes of Matt Hughes, Holloway, Dominick Cruz or Miocic.
He redeemed himself against Nate at a higher weight class, and Alvarez is far from rubbish. He Is world class himself and was at the peak of his powers when McGregor destroyed him in one of the great UFC performances.
I am sounding like a Conor apologist, and I am not a massive fan, but he doesn’t get the credit he deserves and I just thought suggesting Nunes would have a chance against him was too much.
It’s easy to go through fighters records and pick and choose what fighters were at what stage of their careers, but it’s all speculation. The fact is Alvarez is a great fighter and he beat him at the peak of his powers. Aldo was something like 25-1 when McGregor beat him. He was 28 years old. He was absolutely at his peak.
I see him, Miocic and Matt Hughes as similar territory, yeah. I wouldn’t argue with that.
Alvarez was still very poor. We need look no further than what happened to him after.
He just about squeaked past Nate in that second fight. Remember, Nate is also a 155 fighter, so they were both going up in weight, not just McGregor. Nate is also a journeyman, not some Goliath that had to be conquered. Look what Masvidal and Rory did to him at 170.
Alvarez isn't a bum, but he was one of the weakest 155 champions of recent memory. His win against RDA was good but look at his run up to that fight. Apart from the Pettis fight, he was pretty lucky in most of them. Nowhere near his peak I'd say.
McGregor was good but should be nowhere near the top 10.
That’s the nature of MMA though isn’t it? Look what happened to Holloway after his loss, to Aldo, to Garbrandt, to Rousey, to Anderson Silva, to Fedor and the list goes on.
Many fighters who go on streaks have patchy records after the big loss eventually comes. The pressure ramps up, doubts set in and it can be hard to get it back.
It doesn’t take away from how good Alvarez was at that time. He even beat Gaethje after that.
Honestly, sounding more and more like a mega Conor fan, I’m not! I just think that he has had a remarkable career and is certainly in the conversation for top 10, in my opinion. He is a lethal, clinical striker and has had some magic finishes. His win over Cerrone shows just how far he is above the gatekeepers of that division. He was only beaten by the very, very best (that he wasn’t able to redeem)
I didn't use their records so I don't really know where your first sentence come from. And funnily enough in the next sentence that's exactly what you do, Aldo wasn't at his peak and he was around for a while, he was an old 28 years old, he was losing steam in his last fights.
But the important part is your last sentence, that territory is arguably not top 10, you could squeeze one of them in there but that's about it.