The MMA thread

N’Gannou can make more in a single boxing match than he would if immortal and fighting in the UFC for the next century; Dana is not even thinking of paying him a decent wage, at the same time, his favourites are making a fortune each time they fight. Why on earth would Francis stick around? If Dana does not relent, I think that’s the last time we’ll see the Cameroonian in an octagon.

If he fights Fury, he’ll only get a single shot in boxing because, unless Fury carries him through the fight, he will be utterly humiliated and no longer be any kind of draw in terms of boxing.

What could happen if N’Gannou still has the appetite after making the generational wealth money out of the boxing is him returning to the UFC - if Dana isn’t acting like a bitch - and working his way back to a title shot again.

But I’ll stick with the predIction of him never being seen in the octagon again.
 
Fortitude said:
N’Gannou can make more in a single boxing match than he would if immortal and fighting in the UFC for the next century; Dana is not even thinking of paying him a decent wage, at the same time, his favourites are making a fortune each time they fight. Why on earth would Francis stick around? If Dana does not relent, I think that’s the last time we’ll see the Cameroonian in an octagon.

If he fights Fury, he’ll only get a single shot in boxing because, unless Fury carries him through the fight, he will be utterly humiliated and no longer be any kind of draw in terms of boxing.

What could happen if N’Gannou still has the appetite after making the generational wealth money out of the boxing is him returning to the UFC - if Dana isn’t acting like a bitch - and working his way back to a title shot again.

But I’ll stick with the predIction of him never being seen in the octagon again.
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Dana is a stubborn git and will never give into whatever Ngannou wants. He had the chance to do Bones vs. Ngannou but his ego stopped that fight from coming to fruition.

The man is a Grade-A tool.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Dana is a stubborn git and will never give into whatever Ngannou wants. He had the chance to do Bones vs. Ngannou but his ego stopped that fight from coming to fruition.

The man is a Grade-A tool.
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It lends itself to the question of if Jones will get the money he wants to fight at heavyweight. Francis will gladly not fight again, and rightly so with c. $40m-$75m on the table for a single fight.

N'Gannou got $600k basic for the most anticipated heavyweight showdown in a long time. The PP didn't do well, I've heard, partly because the UFC did nothing to promote the fight.

It's despicable.
 
Fortitude said:
It lends itself to the question of if Jones will get the money he wants to fight at heavyweight. Francis will gladly not fight again, and rightly so with c. $40m-$75m on the table for a single fight.

N'Gannou got $600k basic for the most anticipated heavyweight showdown in a long time. The PP didn't do well, I've heard, partly because the UFC did nothing to promote the fight.

It's despicable.
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How else would they promote it from different UFC events. ? They did the usual lineup of hype up shows (Embeddeds etc). The possible issue is that Francis isn't the biggest draw and the rest of the card was fairly anonymous in terms of star appeal. The fact that COVID is surging in here in LA doesn't help either.
 
Do we know why Dana is so unwilling to deal with Ngannou? I remember hearing he became a bit of a pain to deal with on his initial come up before the first Stipe fight and then the Lewis vs Ngannou shit show but I'm sure plenty of fighters are difficult to manage so I can't imagine he's holding a grudge. It does seem weird though because his power, look and story should be a marketing gold mine for the UFC.
 
redom said:
Do we know why Dana is so unwilling to deal with Ngannou? I remember hearing he became a bit of a pain to deal with on his initial come up before the first Stipe fight and then the Lewis vs Ngannou shit show but I'm sure plenty of fighters are difficult to manage so I can't imagine he's holding a grudge. It does seem weird though because his power, look and story should be a marketing gold mine for the UFC.
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He did the Cardinal sin of publicly asking for better pay.

Dana would be more forgiving if you shagged his missus than do the above.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
He did the Cardinal sin of publicly asking for better pay.

Dana would be more forgiving if you shagged his missus than do the above.
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Gotcha, seems a very petty thing to get hung up on, but not too surprising with Dana I suppose, especially off the back of Jake Paul taking shots at the UFC and pay too, seems like Ngannou took the brunt of his ire.
 
Raoul said:
How else would they promote it from different UFC events. ? They did the usual lineup of hype up shows (Embeddeds etc). The possible issue is that Francis isn't the biggest draw and the rest of the card was fairly anonymous in terms of star appeal. The fact that COVID is surging in here in LA doesn't help either.
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Different events don't have the baddest/scariest fighter in the sport. N'Gannou is literally the apex predator for now with supposedly the most powerful punch recorded in history; he's about as easy a homerun promotion as you can get.

They could promo him with ease and raise his profile by following a tried and tested narrative. Even Tyson said on his podcast interview with N'Gannou that what he is is a goldmine in itself.

You’ve also got the whole 'beef' angle that UFC use all the time with other fights. They could have ramped that off charts.

Gane being 10 and 0 and looking so slick up to that point could've easily been painted as the giant slayer. It's the easiest of promotions, but absolutely not what the UFC want to do with a fighter who could shatter their business model. There's no way they wanted Francis to win as he's now put the ball back in their court and if they black or low ball him in his mandatory obligation, this thing could easily escalate to the courts.

People being stuck at home would've boosted the PPV not lessened it; the entire thing has been a disgrace and Dana capped that by not putting the belt on Francis and avoiding the post-fight conference entirely.
 
redom said:
Gotcha, seems a very petty thing to get hung up on, but not too surprising with Dana I suppose, especially off the back of Jake Paul taking shots at the UFC and pay too, seems like Ngannou took the brunt of his ire.
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From the UFC's perspective, it's yet another fighter who could bring their business model down, as off the back of such a public pay dispute, them relenting will open the floodgates for a number of fighters.

Jones wants paying, Stipe has said the same, and that makes the three best in the division primed to see how any negotiations turn out for the others.

This isn't about Francis; it's a whole lot bigger than that. Has been discussed in detail in this thread, and I really hope a reckoning is coming for them because they've been fleecing the top rank for far too long.

Getting in bed with Conor with that Proper 12 advertising is a straw too far as well as they are blatantly putting money behind a handful of fighters at the expense of others, not least with Conor's horrendous profile now.
 
Fortitude said:
Different events don't have the baddest/scariest fighter in the sport. N'Gannou is literally the apex predator for now with supposedly the most powerful punch recorded in history; he's about as easy a homerun promotion as you can get.

They could promo him with ease and raise his profile by following a tried and tested narrative. Even Tyson said on his podcast interview with N'Gannou that what he is is a goldmine in itself.

You’ve also got the whole 'beef' angle that UFC use all the time with other fights. They could have ramped that off charts.

Gane being 10 and 0 and looking so slick up to that point could've easily been painted as the giant slayer. It's the easiest of promotions, but absolutely not what the UFC want to do with a fighter who could shatter their business model. There's no way they wanted Francis to win as he's now put the ball back in their court and if they black or low ball him in his mandatory obligation, this thing could easily escalate to the courts.

People being stuck at home would've boosted the PPV not lessened it; the entire thing has been a disgrace and Dana capped that by not putting the belt on Francis and avoiding the post-fight conference entirely.
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It was shocking underpromoted. Totally bizarre as well because the ufc is quids-in from successful events….it’s as if they’d rather not increase Francis’ profile at any cost.
Small gripe about the fighters though, they hardly promoted it themselves either.
 
T00lsh3d said:
It was shocking underpromoted. Totally bizarre as well because the ufc is quids-in from successful events….it’s as if they’d rather not increase Francis’ profile at any cost.
Small gripe about the fighters though, they hardly promoted it themselves either.
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Yeah, it's been done that way by design; Francis isn't signing their dire contract so feck him. Gane's camp is wet behind the ears and clueless to promotions, but if the contract dispute wasn't ongoing, their man would have been thrust into the limelight prior to the fight.
 
You'd imagine Ngannou holds all the cards.

He is the heavyweight champion of the world and can walk away with the belt (not really, but metaphorically). UFC and White will try to scrub him from the records if he does walk away but there will always be an asterisk for the next champ. It's not like an injury or retirement forcing a new champ, which is understandable, but a mega-rich company being too fecking tight just makes the whole thing look shit and any hype for the next title fight without Ngannou would fall flat. Proper paper champion stuff.
 
Fortitude said:
Different events don't have the baddest/scariest fighter in the sport. N'Gannou is literally the apex predator for now with supposedly the most powerful punch recorded in history; he's about as easy a homerun promotion as you can get.

They could promo him with ease and raise his profile by following a tried and tested narrative. Even Tyson said on his podcast interview with N'Gannou that what he is is a goldmine in itself.

You’ve also got the whole 'beef' angle that UFC use all the time with other fights. They could have ramped that off charts.

Gane being 10 and 0 and looking so slick up to that point could've easily been painted as the giant slayer. It's the easiest of promotions, but absolutely not what the UFC want to do with a fighter who could shatter their business model. There's no way they wanted Francis to win as he's now put the ball back in their court and if they black or low ball him in his mandatory obligation, this thing could easily escalate to the courts.

People being stuck at home would've boosted the PPV not lessened it; the entire thing has been a disgrace and Dana capped that by not putting the belt on Francis and avoiding the post-fight conference entirely.
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Francis isn't much of a draw at all, which is a problem for PPV cards and probably one of many reasons Dana feels he is disposable if he wants to criticize the UFC's pay scheme. And no people being stuck at home doesn't necessarily mean PPV views would've been more given how many people stream events for free.
 
Raoul said:
Francis isn't much of a draw at all, which is a problem for PPV cards and probably one of many reasons Dana feels he is disposable if he wants to criticize the UFC's pay scheme. And no people being stuck at home doesn't necessarily mean PPV views would've been more given how many people stream events for free.
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There's a reason for that. Or are you actually denying what they are doing to him, and the reasons why?

There's a time line and an exact moment where the 180 occurred and Dana went from shouting from the rooftops how N'Gannou was a beast using the elite UFC training facilities and breaking performance records etc to persona non grata, snatching nearly all promotion away.

There is no easier fighter in the sport to promote - even his origin story is out of a comic book.
 
Raoul said:
Francis isn't much of a draw at all, which is a problem for PPV cards and probably one of many reasons Dana feels he is disposable if he wants to criticize the UFC's pay scheme. And no people being stuck at home doesn't necessarily mean PPV views would've been more given how many people stream events for free.
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Come on man. This is probably one of the easiest guys to market. A great back story, looks scary as hell (which is huge at HW), that punch power etc. If Dana can't make this guy a megastar then he is a shit promoter. Oh yeah, the same Dana that tends to go out of his way to un-promote fighters he doesn't like... Complete buffoon. But hey, he's rich, I'm not so what do I know!
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Come on man. This is probably one of the easiest guys to market. A great back story, looks scary as hell (which is huge at HW), that punch power etc. If Dana can't make this guy a megastar then he is a shit promoter. Oh yeah, the same Dana that tends to go out of his way to un-promote fighters he doesn't like... Complete buffoon. But hey, he's rich, I'm not so what do I know!
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Not among Americans, which is where the center of gravity of the entire UFC market is in terms of the ability to generate revenue. Francis has a very dry personality and speaks with a funny accent that doesn't particularly resonate with your average US fan. He's also very polite and generally uncontroversial, all of which are the opposite of what makes for a big UFC PPV draw.
 
Fortitude said:
There's a reason for that. Or are you actually denying what they are doing to him, and the reasons why?

There's a time line and an exact moment where the 180 occurred and Dana went from shouting from the rooftops how N'Gannou was a beast using the elite UFC training facilities and breaking performance records etc to persona non grata, snatching nearly all promotion away.

There is no easier fighter in the sport to promote - even his origin story is out of a comic book.
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What specifically have the UFC done to under market him ?
 
redom said:
Do we know why Dana is so unwilling to deal with Ngannou? I remember hearing he became a bit of a pain to deal with on his initial come up before the first Stipe fight and then the Lewis vs Ngannou shit show but I'm sure plenty of fighters are difficult to manage so I can't imagine he's holding a grudge. It does seem weird though because his power, look and story should be a marketing gold mine for the UFC.
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Dirty Schwein said:
He did the Cardinal sin of publicly asking for better pay.

Dana would be more forgiving if you shagged his missus than do the above.
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Superficially it's about money and Dana's ego, and of course the UFC's not willing to give too much power to their stars. Exactly like we saw with footballers in the 70's and 80's until Bosman - they were basically cattle and clubs held all the power when it came to contracts and transfers and side marketing and personal sponsorship deals - compared to the situation nowadays where agents and players have way too much power and are a crucial factor in the business side of fooball clubs. Raiola or Mendes being prime examples, but agents as a whole have been a massive factor in football for the last 20 years obviously, the personal interest of superstar players is more important than the whole club. That's what the UFC doesn't want.

Important deeper conflicts are in play here as well. The UFC is partly owned by one of the biggest management companies in the world, called Endeavor. If you've seen the TV-series 'Entourage', you have the Ari Gold character, based on Ari Emanuel who's the CEO of Endeavor.

Ngannou is of course managed by CAA, Creative Artists Agency, which is a mayor rival of Endeavor, and when you put that together you get these type of conflicts.

On the marketing part, my take is that Francis Ngannou would've potentially been extremely marketable, on a worldwide scale obviously, but he's got plenty of potential just within the USA as well, arguing otherwise is almost silly to me. It's just that the UFC pick and choose who they let their PR machine run rampant on and make into their stars. And for reasons explained above, and taking his age into account, it's not going to be Francis.
 
Fortitude said:
You're not being serious.
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I keep asking and you keep not giving me specifics.

So I'll ask again, what specifically has the UFC done to undermarket Ngannou in contrast to its other past UFC events like Figueredo vs Moreno, Holloway vs Edgar, Pettis vs Holloway etc ?
 
If they have a welterweight title fight in June. That means every men's title would have been fought for in the first 5 months of 2022. Puts boxing to shame.
 
Find it funny how Dana is now saying he thinks the Jones vs. Ngannou fight is the next that makes sense. I mean it made sense before but now Dana is desperate for Ngannou to lose the title and probably feels Jones is his best bet. Hopefully Jones and Ngannou keep demanding the money they feel they deserve. Then we'll end up with an interim heavyweight title match between Gane and Lewis again :lol:
 
Im of the opinion that ngannou biggest problem is that he wasnt born in the USA
 
DrRodo said:
Im of the opinion that ngannou biggest problem is that he wasnt born in the USA
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Gane wasn't either and it was no secret Dana wanted him to win. His biggest issue with Ngannou is his management team I feel, they aren't UFC specific so won't jump on demand for Dana. They will look to utilize their clients brands in different markets hence the boxing links. They've also publicly questioned his contract and wouldn't fight on demand last yr hence the interim fight. Dana doesn't like to be challenged, his stubborness might come back to haunt him. To me Ngannou is a perfect heavyweight champion to promote, heavy hands, and in his last fight showed progression with wrestling mixed in.
 
DrRodo said:
Im of the opinion that ngannou biggest problem is that he wasnt born in the USA
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It's definitely not this. It's all about not bending to the will of lord Dana and also asking to get more money. Those two things Dana cannot stand.
 


I think it's fair to say they didn't want Francis winning. Probably also fair to say that any chance of them coming to an amicable agreement has all but disappeared, shame we wont get to see Jones vs Ngannou.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
It's definitely not this. It's all about not bending to the will of lord Dana and also asking to get more money. Those two things Dana cannot stand.
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Tbh i might have been a bit high when i wrote that. You're right i think
 
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