The MMA thread

Man... if the MMA gods do exist, they have a really sadistic sense of humour

That was like the saddest thing ever. I almost wish low kicks were banned forever from MMA.

Other thoughts on the night:

- Valentina is so awesome. Impossible to not be a fan. What a legendary woman.

- It was nice seeing Anthony Smith pick up that win. I wouldn't be opposed to him fighting the winner of Reyes - Prochazka

- Namajunas is really, really good. I think she knocks Joanna out again if they book the third fight.

- Usman is A MONSTER! He is probably going to either put Colby out cold or take him down at will and submit him.
 
Luke1995 said:
Man... if the MMA gods do exist, they have a really sadistic sense of humour

That was like the saddest thing ever. I almost wish low kicks were banned forever from MMA.

Other thoughts on the night:

- Valentina is so awesome. Impossible to not be a fan. What a legendary woman.

- It was nice seeing Anthony Smith pick up that win. I wouldn't be opposed to him fighting the winner of Reyes - Prochazka

- Namajunas is really, really good. I think she knocks Joanna out again if they book the third fight.

- Usman is A MONSTER! He is probably going to either put Colby out cold or take him down at will and submit him.
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Usman won't wrestle Colby. That's the one shot Covington has.

It will be standup, and his standup is miles better than the last time they fought. he will knock him out
 
Thoughts:

Crute was unfortunate but in a weird way I think it might suit him. He acknowledged he was getting ruined by the jab and I think if they rematch he has the talent to adjust. I don't think he was necessarily going to lose last night but I think he has the talent to take what he learnt and relatively dominate a rematch down the line.

Weidman injury was horrible and weirdly ironic. I don't care if he celebrated after the Silva fight, no one deserves that (much less Hall) and anyone posting any comments other than sympathy is an absolute asshole. Anyway that should be the end of Weidman's career. Hall will only ever be around 8 to 10 so no real change there.

Val fight went as expected. If Val could handle Nunes' power and Andrade couldn't handle Joanna then the result was obvious. The only thing left for Val or Nunes is the rematch although the weight difference means is isn't an all equal fight.

Rose done excellent. Zhang uses the pull back the legs sway technique to avoid leg kicks and when watching the KO she clearly mistook the head kick for exactly that. No hard feelings on her reaction to the loss, she was concussed and Rogan is a dickhead for interviewing her after. So this division is incredibly exciting as I think a remacth between the two could go very differently the next time. Personally though I want Zhang to beat at least one contender and, this will be unpopular, I actually want Rose vs Joanna 3 as Rose's first defence. Both are healthy and ready and I actually believe that Joanna absolutely has what it takes to put a clinic on her unless Rose has gone up another 2 to 3 levels. I still think that is the most top level fight they can put on in that division as Tatiana is still out.

Main even result was as expected but how it happened wasn't. Look Jorge has never been anything but a decent fighter full stop. The hype around him was stupid. Usman was always going to win but the KO was very impressive. With his new found striking he'll absolutely destroy Colby in the rematch, I reckon a round 2 or 3 finish there. The actual fight should be Usman vs Edwards or Wonderboy. Edwards is tricky as he is a better striker for me and horrible to clinch. Whereas if Usman fights Wonderboy then he has to go back to wrestling and if he can't take him down, or hold him against the cage (Wonderboy's movement is insane) then he gets systematically destroyed on the feet outside of a punchers chance. I would much rather see those two fights before a Colby rematch.

A good fight card all in all (outside of Weidman's horrible injury).

Another note: Izzy is going to fight Vetorri. As a Rob fan I'm fine with that because of the timelines but if Izzy loses (I doubt he will) and they end up giving him a rematch then Dana can feck off. No matter who wins that fight Rob should be next as he has staked more of a claim than any belt loser in UFC history.

P.S: feck Dana, give Jones what he's worth (he never asked for 30m let's be real) and make that fecking fight. The guy has been at the top for more than a decade, give him financial dues. Hell maybe just lay of the hookers for a month so you can afford it.
 
If Wonderboy beats Burns surely he has to get a shot. feck his age, he’s still quicker than the rest of the division
 
T00lsh3d said:
If Wonderboy beats Burns surely he has to get a shot. feck his age, he’s still quicker than the rest of the division
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Wonderboy is past his prime (unfortunately). If he couldn't get passed Woodley during his peak years then he wouldn't be any threat to peak Usman in his pre-retirement period.
 
Raoul said:
Wonderboy is past his prime (unfortunately). If he couldn't get passed Woodley during his peak years then he wouldn't be any threat to peak Usman in his pre-retirement period.
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I’m a shameless fanboy, don’t ruin my dreams :lol:
I think he’s got a better chance than anyone else in the division actually.
 
Why do people say Usman striking is a lot better now? He was throwing wild punches before he put Judas' lights out.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Why do people say Usman striking is a lot better now? He was throwing wild punches before he put Judas' lights out.
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Because its been improving steadily with each fight. He was primarily known to have a wrestling background when he came into the UFC and has since transformed himself into a highly effective striker since beating Woodley.
 
Raoul said:
Because its been improving steadily with each fight. He was primarily known to have a wrestling background when he came into the UFC and has since transformed himself into a highly effective striker since beating Woodley.
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Fair enough. I think his striking is still very lacking but he does have a solid jab and now shown that he can also generate power.

Colby took one look at Usmans dad and decided to stay away from the cage :lol:
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Why do people say Usman striking is a lot better now? He was throwing wild punches before he put Judas' lights out.
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Because its improved from the absolute thrash that is was. No one is saying its very good. It's gone from shite to decent, hence its improved. If he fought Thompson and only tried to stand up he'd be massacred, just like if Khabib tried to stand up only with Conor he's be finished within less than a round. Improved doesn't mean good, especially against an overhyped journey man who beat a old wrestler and a drained Till.
 
kidbob said:
Because its improved from the absolute thrash that is was. No one is saying its very good. It's gone from shite to decent, hence its improved. If he fought Thompson and only tried to stand up he'd be massacred, just like if Khabib tried to stand up only with Conor he's be finished within less than a round. Improved doesn't mean good, especially against an overhyped journey man who beat a old wrestler and a drained Till.
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Yeah fair points. I agree, it's improved and it's exactly what he needs to setup his wrestling. Nothing more. But yes, definitely improved.
 
So Weidman’s leg did the same thing his nephew-in-law’s arm did a few months ago in a wrestling match. Wonderboy needs to be sure to drink extra milk :nervous:
 
kidbob said:
Because its improved from the absolute thrash that is was. No one is saying its very good. It's gone from shite to decent, hence its improved. If he fought Thompson and only tried to stand up he'd be massacred, just like if Khabib tried to stand up only with Conor he's be finished within less than a round. Improved doesn't mean good, especially against an overhyped journey man who beat a old wrestler and a drained Till.
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Khabib literally stood face to face with Conor on the inside and dared him to punch him. And Conor couldn't even land anything semi-clean, because he's nowhere near the striker you think he is. There was one knockdown in their fight, and it was by Khabib.

Khabib then face to face with Gsethje and outstruck him on his feet in the first round before deciding to quickly end the fight in the next round.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Why do people say Usman striking is a lot better now? He was throwing wild punches before he put Judas' lights out.
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He was swinging punches against Burns as well at UFC 258. Given that he added Whitman to his team, I expected his punches to be tighter, but in the first round, he seemed a little wild and looked susceptible to counters.

The knockout was special, and if he can continue to do damage with his new jab, that's going to make him even better moving forwards, but I agree that his striking still has some obvious issues that need to be addressed.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
Khabib literally stood face to face with Conor on the inside and dared him to punch him. And Conor couldn't even land anything semi-clean, because he's nowhere near the striker you think he is. There was one knockdown in their fight, and it was by Khabib.

Khabib then face to face with Gsethje and outstruck him on his feet in the first round before deciding to quickly end the fight in the next round.
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I meant striking only mate. As i a kickboxing match with no takedowns. Khabib could do that because his opponents are terrified of his wrestling. Take that away and both Justin and Conor destroy him in a straight striking match. This is coming from someone who thinks Khabib has a right to be called the best ever too.
 
kidbob said:
I meant striking only mate. As i a kickboxing match with no takedowns. Khabib could do that because his opponents are terrified of his wrestling. Take that away and both Justin and Conor destroy him in a straight striking match. This is coming from someone who thinks Khabib has a right to be called the best ever too.
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Conjecture, and isn't even what you stated to begin with. You said that if he chose to only stand, he'd get knocked out. That's precisely what he did against Conor, and Conor couldn't lay a finger.

At the end of the round in which Khabib stood toe to toe with Conor and literally dared him to punch him, the latter said "its only business" as he tried to get Khabib to go easy on him.

Usman isn't the cleanest puncher but again, you're simply stating an opinion that isn't predicated on any real facts. We have never seen him get knocked out, and the idea that 'he would get destroyed/wouldn't last a round if he chooses to stand with wonderboy' is pure conjecture. It's nice FanFiction, but I can easily say that he'd go 50 rounds without coming close to getting knocked out, and it would have more merit than your statement.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
Conjecture, and isn't even what you stated to begin with. You said that if he chose to only stand, he'd get knocked out. That's precisely what he did against Conor, and Conor couldn't lay a finger.

At the end of the round in which Khabib stood toe to toe with Conor and literally dared him to punch him, the latter said "its only business" as he tried to get Khabib to go easy on him.

Usman isn't the cleanest puncher but again, you're simply stating an opinion that isn't predicated on any real facts. We have never seen him get knocked out, and the idea that 'he would get destroyed/wouldn't last a round if he chooses to stand with wonderboy' is pure conjecture. It's nice FanFiction, but I can easily say that he'd go 50 rounds without coming close to getting knocked out, and it would have more merit than your statement.
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I'm not going through this mate. He 'stood' with Conor after mauling him with wrestling for 2 full rounds, that is the difference. I know what I meant even if I didn't convey it well. I'm am simply stating that from what we've seen that if Usman decided to have a stand up fight with Wonderboy then Wonderboy would style all over him. Do you honestly believe that Usman is now a better striker than Thompson? Either way it doesn't matter because, like Khabib, Usman wouldn't be stupid enough to do that.

I also never said 'he wouldn't last a round', I said he'd be massacred on the feet by Wonderboy, and he would. So that is conjecture.
 
kidbob said:
I'm not going through this mate. He 'stood' with Conor after mauling him with wrestling for 2 full rounds, that is the difference. I know what I meant even if I didn't convey it well. I'm am simply stating that from what we've seen that if Usman decided to have a stand up fight with Wonderboy then Wonderboy would style all over him. Do you honestly believe that Usman is now a better striker than Thompson? Either way it doesn't matter because, like Khabib, Usman wouldn't be stupid enough to do that.

I also never said 'he wouldn't last a round', I said he'd be massacred on the feet by Wonderboy, and he would. So that is conjecture.
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You can put "stood" in quotation marks all you want and it isn't going to make what you said any less incorrect.

You stated that if Khabib chose to do nothing but stand with Conor, he wouldn't last a round. Javier Mendez has repeatedly talked about how Khabib chose to do just that against Conor, afterwhich Khabib didn't have a scratch on him while Conor begged him to go easy on him.

I'm not sure why you're bothering asking me whether I think Usman is a better striker than Wonderboy because that isn't the discussion. You also misused conjecture at the end there.

The evidence we have seen is that both guys can hold their own in standups against the hyped strikers of their divisions, and have fared just fine.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
You can put "stood" in quotation marks all you want and it isn't going to make what you said any less incorrect.

You stated that if Khabib chose to do nothing but stand with Conor, he wouldn't last a round. Javier Mendez has repeatedly talked about how Khabib chose to do just that against Conor, afterwhich Khabib didn't have a scratch on him while Conor begged him to go easy on him.

I'm not sure why you're bothering asking me whether I think Usman is a better striker than Wonderboy because that isn't the discussion. You also misused conjecture at the end there.

The evidence we have seen is that both guys can hold their own in standups against the hyped strikers of their divisions, and have fared just fine.
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Like I said I should have been clearer in my post. It was discussing Usman's improved striking. What I meant was that if Khabib and Conor had a pure kickboxing match then Conor would KO him relatively quickly when Khabib doesn't have the threat of the takedown to supplement the striking. However my main point was that in MMA if Usman tried to fight the same fight as he did last night with Wonderboy then I don't see him having anywhere near the success he did against Jorge (considering Wonderboy styled on Jorge on the feet already). We were talking about striking and Usman's improvement. Basically what I meant is that if Usman can't successfully grapple against Wonderboy then the gap on the feet is too much. Just like if Conor could throw off Khabib's threat of grappling then the skill gap on the feet is too much.

Basically if we ask who would win in a pure striking match between Khabib and Conor or Wonderboy and Usman then Conor and Wonderboy would win.

Edit: I was discussing pure striking ability, but looking back I wasn't clear on it.
 
kidbob said:
Like I said I should have been clearer in my post. It was discussing Usman's improved striking. What I meant was that if Khabib and Conor had a pure kickboxing match then Conor would KO him relatively quickly when Khabib doesn't have the threat of the takedown to supplement the striking. However my main point was that in MMA if Usman tried to fight the same fight as he did last night with Wonderboy then I don't see him having anywhere near the success he did against Jorge (considering Wonderboy styled on Jorge on the feet already). We were talking about striking and Usman's improvement. Basically what I meant is that if Usman can't successfully grapple against Wonderboy then the gap on the feet is too much. Just like if Conor could throw off Khabib's threat of grappling then the skill gap on the feet is too much.

Basically if we ask who would win in a pure striking match between Khabib and Conor or Wonderboy and Usman then Conor and Wonderboy would win.
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I agree with all your points here, and I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say. I don't disagree that the strikers would win a kickboxing fight.

I was responding to what I thought was an implication that the better grapplers wouldn't last a round (i.e. lose every round) in which theu choose to stand, in an MMA fight.

In a pure striking fight, Wonderboy would beat Usman and Conor would beat Khabib.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
I agree with all your points here, and I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say. I don't disagree that the strikers would win a kickboxing fight.

I was responding to what I thought was an implication that the better grapplers wouldn't last a round (i.e. lose every round) in which theu choose to stand, in an MMA fight.

In a pure striking fight, Wonderboy would beat Usman and Conor would beat Khabib.
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No bother mate, like I said my post was very unclear! For what its worth in MMA Conor would never beat Khabib but I would actually be very interested to see Wonderboy vs Usman. I'd favour Usman but if Wonderboy could manage to repel the grappling (I think his footwork is top class) then it could be a very interesting fight, much more interesting than Usman vs Colby 2 for me (I think Usman's improved too much for that to be as competitive as it was before).
 
kidbob said:
No bother mate, like I said my post was very unclear! For what its worth in MMA Conor would never beat Khabib but I would actually be very interested to see Wonderboy vs Usman. I'd favour Usman but if Wonderboy could manage to repel the grappling (I think his footwork is top class) then it could be a very interesting fight, much more interesting than Usman vs Colby 2 for me (I think Usman's improved too much for that to be as competitive as it was before).
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I think so as well but Dana is going to book the upcoming fights based on what he thinks will sell. The rematch against Masvidal was never going to be competitive in my opinion, and a lot of people thought that there were better fights to book, yet that's what the UFC did because Dana feels that Masvidal Vs Usman could sell better than some of the more competitive fights.

They already confirmed the Covington rematch and I feel the same way as you do regarding how this will play out. Having said that, once that's out of the way, unless they want to do a match with Leon, Wonderboy should be an option.

If we do see it, and if Thompson keeps it standing (might be increasingly more probable since Usman is focusing more and more on his striking after adding Whitman to his coaching staff, and perhaps not doing as much work on his grappling as he used to), it would be interesting.

Realistically though, unless you manage to be perfect in scrambles and stuff every takedown, I'm not sure who beats him because as you pointed out, this is MMA and if he's getting outclassed on his feet, he'd be able to change gameplan and take it to the ground.
 
Raoul said:
The UFC is at a peculiar crossroads at the moment in that there really isn't much depth in many of the divisions.

Usman only has Covington and possibly Edwards as potential future competitors, after which I would imagine he sails off into the sunset. There is literally nothing going on in the women's divisions since the only two great fighters are in different divisions at a time when they should be fighting a third fight. Ngannou, Volkanovski, Adesanya, and Blachowicz don't really have much competition to deal with. The only interesting division remaining is LW, where there seem to be a fair few contenders as long as Khabib remains retired.
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New contenders emerge all the time in fairness. I'm sure stuff like this was said before in the past (I think it was around when McGregor exploded) and it hasn't happened.

I dunno if Usman retires after them 2 fights, he is getting a lot of hype behind him now and is becoming a pretty big name I'd imagine he could get some decent money by having a few more fights.

Was a great card, the atmosphere definitely helped it as well.
 
Oggmonster said:
New contenders emerge all the time in fairness. I'm sure stuff like this was said before in the past (I think it was around when McGregor exploded) and it hasn't happened.

I dunno if Usman retires after them 2 fights, he is getting a lot of hype behind him now and is becoming a pretty big name I'd imagine he could get some decent money by having a few more fights.

Was a great card, the atmosphere definitely helped it as well.
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There was a lot more competition and general star power in the UFC back when Conor emerged, which actually hasn’t even remotely been replenished. Beyond Conor and Aldo, you had a bitter, personal fued between DC and Jones, lots of interesting competition at women’s BW after Rousey was dethroned by Holm.

Back then most divisions were still interesting based on viable contenders, which has now been replaced by divisions with dominant champs and few viable contenders to challenge them.

The UFC are also coming under more pressure from fighters leaving for other promotions which doesn’t inspire much hope that new legit contenders will emerge - see McDonnell, Mousasi, Mighty Mouse and others. They’re also struggling to replace the star power and commercial draw they had when they still had McGregor, Anderson Silva, Rousey, Jones, and more recently Khabib all fighting at the same time. If a new superstar doesn’t emerge the business will start going south pretty soon, especially with the US PPV model in rapid decline.
 
Raoul said:
There was a lot more competition and general star power in the UFC back when Conor emerged, which actually hasn’t even remotely been replenished. Beyond Conor and Aldo, you had a bitter, personal fued between DC and Jones, lots of interesting competition at women’s BW after Rousey was dethroned by Holm.

Back then most divisions were still interesting based on viable contenders, which has now been replaced by divisions with dominant champs and few viable contenders to challenge them.

The UFC are also coming under more pressure from fighters leaving for other promotions which doesn’t inspire much hope that new legit contenders will emerge - see McDonnell, Mousasi, Mighty Mouse and others. They’re also struggling to replace the star power and commercial draw they had when they still had McGregor, Anderson Silva, Rousey, Jones, and more recently Khabib all fighting at the same time. If a new superstar doesn’t emerge the business will start going south pretty soon, especially with the US PPV model in rapid decline.
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I get your point and for the long term, I think I agree. They need to create more stars and blood some more feuds.

But for now:

Make the fecking Jones vs. Ngannou fight :mad:
 
Raoul said:
There was a lot more competition and general star power in the UFC back when Conor emerged, which actually hasn’t even remotely been replenished. Beyond Conor and Aldo, you had a bitter, personal fued between DC and Jones, lots of interesting competition at women’s BW after Rousey was dethroned by Holm.

Back then most divisions were still interesting based on viable contenders, which has now been replaced by divisions with dominant champs and few viable contenders to challenge them.

The UFC are also coming under more pressure from fighters leaving for other promotions which doesn’t inspire much hope that new legit contenders will emerge - see McDonnell, Mousasi, Mighty Mouse and others. They’re also struggling to replace the star power and commercial draw they had when they still had McGregor, Anderson Silva, Rousey, Jones, and more recently Khabib all fighting at the same time. If a new superstar doesn’t emerge the business will start going south pretty soon, especially with the US PPV model in rapid decline.
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I agree with the sentiment but there's plenty of fighters about who have potential to be big stars. Usman stock must be high at the moment with his performances and they have the Colby rematch which is interesting for example. There's people like Arnold Allen and O'Malley who can be contenders pretty quick similar to Garbrandt rise for example.

They've not got a Conor or a Rousey but they are very rare in fairness. There's plenty of fighters who can get to high levels though if they plan it right. There's been talk like this for years but contenders always emerge as the sport gets bigger the quality increases.

Some people will leave granted but does the UFC really miss Mousasi or DJ? Not really. I doubt anyone noticed they've gone to be honest.

The PPV model has needed changes for years I agree. Same with Sky over here people just aren't interested in paying high prices anymore when we can stream it...if they had an affordable model like Netflix or Amazon etc then I imagine people would pay over streaming due to the reliability factor. Doesn't WWF have a network for example??
 
Raoul said:
Not surprising given that a lot of people thought Sheva won fight two.

She may have also won fight one if it was five rounds since Nunes was completely on the back foot by round 3.
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I know it’s been said 100’s of times but it’s the only fight to make. They’re levels above the competition.
 
Oggmonster said:
I dunno if Usman retires after them 2 fights, he is getting a lot of hype behind him now and is becoming a pretty big name I'd imagine he could get some decent money by having a few more fights.
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Why would he retire because there's no competition?
It's his job.... He gets paid to do it, and i am pretty sure he enjoys fighting and winning.
 
Luke1995 said:
Rumble X Romero is getting closer. Any initial predictions ?
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:drool: Gut feeling is that Rumble will finish him early, although obviously I have no clue what sort of shape Rumble is in.

Self-indulgent trip down memory lane incoming, but I've been loitering around here for long enough to remember looking forward to the fight vs Feijao a decade ago which was the last time anvil-jawed Romero actually got KOed. Christ, I loved that era of MMA.

Pat_Mustard said:
There's a brilliant-looking Strikeforce card on tonight. Even the prelims look brilliant. Cant wait to see how Yoel Romero does against Feijao. He's got brilliant wrestling credentials but Feijao is a massive step up in class. Same goes for Cormier against Bigfoot really. I've had a man crush on Cormier since I first seen him so I'll probably combust if he manages to score the upset.

Prelims:

Mike Kyle vs. Marcos Rogerio de Lima
Rafael “Feijao” Cavalcante vs. Yoel Romero
Evangelista “Cyborg” Santos vs. Jordan Mein
Amanda Nunes vs. Alexis Davis
Dominique Steele vs. Chris Mierzwiak

Main Card:

Josh Barnett vs Sergei Kharitonov
Daniel Cormier vs Antonio 'Bigfoot' Silva
Ronaldo Souza vs Luke Rockhold
King Mo vs Roger Gracie
Pat Healy vs Maximo Blanco
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So, Usman have challenged Jake paul to a boxing match

Please let this happen
 
Paxi said:
I know it’s been said 100’s of times but it’s the only fight to make. They’re levels above the competition.
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Absolutely right. Unfortunately the size differential.will always exist and Valentina would rightly be cautious which would lend itself to another chess march of sorts......
 
Read that the silly youtube dude was going to fight Mayweather...
 
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