The MMA thread
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
Sterling and Usman(Nigerian-American) are now the only American UFC champions. 2 out of 12. Additionally we all know Aljo is not exactly the most convincing champion. Big power shift in recent years as the game goes more global. Obviously it's by far still the best place to be for training.
That's all true, now that I think about it. Velasquez was finished and Dos Santos wasn't quite what he used to be. The fiasco against Lewis was embarassing for both, and will continue to be a black mark against Ngannou, to an extent.
But this was sensational. Stipe came in after beating DC back to back, and Ngannou finished him, decisively. It's a big win.
I dont think jones and ngannou will fight because I think Jones will duck him. I'd love it to happen but I'm expecting maybe Jan vs Ngannou next.
Jones is probably the goat but I honestly think he does not want to get inside the octagon with Ngannou.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
Jones is probably the goat but I honestly think he does not want to get inside the octagon with Ngannou.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
I don't think he'd duck him. He's the HW champion it's the fight he'd obviously want. He clearly just wants to be paid well which is fair enough it'd be the biggest UFC HW fight ever and probably one of their biggest fights in general.
Ngannou is a beast his size alone and fact he has now grasped basics of wrestling makes him very hard to beat. I think Jones is best bet though rest of the division is shite
He'll duck him because he's going to lose. It doesn't make sense unless Jones is after one final payday for some reason, legacy be damned. He should at least have one tune up fight at HW before this.
This all sounds straight from the Dana White school of negotiations. Slate a fighter for having the audacity for wanting more money and just say he doesn't want the fight. Then we get Ngannou vs Lewis 2 instead of the fight everyone wants.
Hes fought the best in the division he was in and won. He moved up to HW and knew the champion would either be Ngannou or Stipe so I don't get how people have decided he is now ducking one of them 2. So why would he move up? He wasn't going to HW to fight Arlovski and Struve etc.
Weird thing in MMA fandom where no matter how many times they see a fighter happily get in the Octagon and risk being beaten half to death, they'll randomly decide that the fighter is a actually afraid to fight [insert name of random fighter] next, for no reason whatsoever, even if it involves one of the biggest paydays of their professional fighting career.
Yeah its odd. It's obvious what Dana is doing. In the press conference he was setting up Ngannou vs Lewis as some must see fight cos he will try and twist it that its the best option cos Lewis obviously comes at a much cheaper price than Jones
I'm not sure but I am just going off my own judgement of him. I've followed jj for a while be it fighting or social media and I just think he will be too clever to take the fight with ngannou on right now because he is so self conscious about his legacy and seems he'll bent on preserving it.
Whoever suggests that the elite in ufc are scared in the sense that us pedestrians would be fighting against trained killers are wrong.
There's not a single fighter signed up to ufc who is scared of any of the other fighters. Those who are simply won't make it.
However, being scared of losing or tarnishing your record is absolutely normal at this level of combat sport.
If Dana wasn't such a tight asshole and paid fighters what they're worth then we wouldn't have these conversations over and over again.
Surely Jones wouldn’t have moved up if he wasn’t prepared to fight Ngannou. The possibility of him being champion was so odds on, it wouldn’t have made any sense gaining that weight only to sit around and have a contract stand off
Yeah exactly.
Why do people think he moves up to HW? It wasn't to fight the shite he obviously wants the title and would if known it was Stipe or Ngannou he would be fighting
I hope you are right but I wouldn't be surprised if we never see jones fight again. I don't know the man personally, for all I know he may well have his eyes on ngannou.
I just don't think that fight will happen though. I think possibly he will pursue a fight with Jan and maybe even Adesanya and I have no solid reasoning behind this other than the way he carries himself as of late.
In my eyes, Ngannou is on a war path and Jones will not risk it.
Nobody's touching Francis anymore. He's finally rounded himself out and learned how to fight smart.
Where’s the obligatory coffin dance video for Stipe?
Francis as an absolute monster
Francis as an absolute monster
Ngannou gonna dominate that division for a long time, yeah?
One of the best title wins ever?
Ngannou looked like a complete fighter in there. Patient, offensive variety, strong take down defence, with lethal intentions once he had Stipe hurt (contrast that to O’Malley).
The all guns blazing style in his last few fights seemed to just be a choice because of the level of the opponent.
Ngannou looked like a complete fighter in there. Patient, offensive variety, strong take down defence, with lethal intentions once he had Stipe hurt (contrast that to O’Malley).
The all guns blazing style in his last few fights seemed to just be a choice because of the level of the opponent.
I think Jones would be a much closer fight than a lot think. Firstly, Jones looks bigger than Stipe did. Secondly, Jones is much smarter and has a brilliant habit of using fighters strengths against them.
I see a lot of straight front kicks and moving elbows v Ngannou and Ngannou rushing in because he'll underestimate him at heavyweight.
I see a lot of straight front kicks and moving elbows v Ngannou and Ngannou rushing in because he'll underestimate him at heavyweight.
Blocked everything cause I couldn't watch it live, just watch it now and 
Francis FECKING Ngannou. Wow, just wow, make the rest of the card that I just watch fade into insignificance. Those 2 last shots. BOMBS! That last one shouldn't have even landed. Holy moly!
So so happy for Ngannou though. Guess this is set up for the decider like it was Stipe vs DC. But Ngannou looks like he's keep this belt for a while!
Francis FECKING Ngannou. Wow, just wow, make the rest of the card that I just watch fade into insignificance. Those 2 last shots. BOMBS! That last one shouldn't have even landed. Holy moly!So so happy for Ngannou though. Guess this is set up for the decider like it was Stipe vs DC. But Ngannou looks like he's keep this belt for a while!
My thoughts exactly. I thought he looked visibly tired after stuffing the take down and scramble there after and that was just half a round in. Jones works him and he wins imo
Feels like its destined to not live up to that hype. Hope it does though.
Just watched the fight. Stipe is one tough 'S.O.B' to even get out of the first round. It literally looked like someone from a lighter weight class fighting in a much heavier division. Props to Stipe, but he had no clue what to do in there once that takedown scramble went belly up.
As said before the fight, without psychological issues, Francis is something otherworldy, and from now on, he's only going to get better and more confident. Once he fights with the confidence of a champion, it is going to take something very special to beat him. N'Gannou showed mental fortitude and proved that he has learned and developed and clearly improved himself, so his words have come to pass and you can't doubt him anymore.
Jones is the best fighter there is, for my money, but the gulf in power is, imo unsurmountable.
There's noone out there I can see who is going to stop N'Gannou because I don't believe Jones has the power or strength to trouble him.
Give N'Gannou some more time in camp and we're talking about a legacy at H/W.
As said before the fight, without psychological issues, Francis is something otherworldy, and from now on, he's only going to get better and more confident. Once he fights with the confidence of a champion, it is going to take something very special to beat him. N'Gannou showed mental fortitude and proved that he has learned and developed and clearly improved himself, so his words have come to pass and you can't doubt him anymore.
Jones is the best fighter there is, for my money, but the gulf in power is, imo unsurmountable.
There's noone out there I can see who is going to stop N'Gannou because I don't believe Jones has the power or strength to trouble him.
Give N'Gannou some more time in camp and we're talking about a legacy at H/W.
I hasten to add: Stipe is a legitimate HW with bombs in both hands and he looked massively undersized in there vs N'Gannou; Jones doesn't even have power at LHW, so how on earth is he supposed to whether the storm against N'Gannou? It will be one of the greatest feats (if not the greatest) in MMA history if he goes in and beats N'Gannou.
Props to Stipe, chin of granite. Seen people crumble under much less and surprised he made it out of the first. Especially when Frances was cracking him after the failed takedown. He was eating bombs and just standing up.
He however coming in to the 2nd looked defeated, the sequence that led to his demise, heck if he’d just backed off instead of comitting when he landed that shot that shook Francis. Might have bought himself more time but it looked like it was only going to go one way.
The change in Ngannou from the Rosen fight even. Massive difference. Looked good, calm calculated, less reliant on sheer power. Great performance. I suppose stuffing the takedown was the biggest moment.
Role on Jones vs Francis, pay the men Dana. Surely has to be the biggest box office UFC would do, just stack the card. Jones probably doesn‘t bring as many eyes as MCGregor but heavyweights, two really good recognisable names that transcend beyond hardcores in to casuals and beyond.
He however coming in to the 2nd looked defeated, the sequence that led to his demise, heck if he’d just backed off instead of comitting when he landed that shot that shook Francis. Might have bought himself more time but it looked like it was only going to go one way.
The change in Ngannou from the Rosen fight even. Massive difference. Looked good, calm calculated, less reliant on sheer power. Great performance. I suppose stuffing the takedown was the biggest moment.
Role on Jones vs Francis, pay the men Dana. Surely has to be the biggest box office UFC would do, just stack the card. Jones probably doesn‘t bring as many eyes as MCGregor but heavyweights, two really good recognisable names that transcend beyond hardcores in to casuals and beyond.
Sure I saw Jones say he was around 240-250lbs now. Precision and technique work just as well as power. He does have skinny legs mind but Jones general fight IQ I would say is vastly greater than Stipe or Francis. I’m sure most people just want to see it. Sure Jones will just try and chain wrestle and nullify Ngannou or chop his legs, or just counter. Doubt he gets in a fire fight. Like if Francis fought Like he did against Rosen then he’d get put on his arse by Jones no problem.
would need to see more wrestling from Francis and I think Jones would still have a reach advantage in the fight.
Said it many time in this thread that I think Jones is a legitimate combat genius; I think he'll know *what* to do, but that it won't matter because he doesn't have the power or very probably the strength in clinches to keep heavies off, let alone N'Gannou - need to see him in an actual HW fight before extending thoughts about what his strengths can do at this weight. We don't know how his tank will look with all that packed on weight, nor his mobility, and he has been getting tagged by LHW's the last couple before he went up, which he cannot be entertaining vs N'Gannou.
Francis can legitmately walk into Jones' proximity to wilfully exchange, and as we saw with Stipe, and so many other legitimate heavies, N'Gannou is on the winning end of those. Length has to come with mobility, stamina and/or power, and if the attacks thrown from distance are too flimsy or inneffective, they actually work as inlets - need to see teeps, hyperextends etc. bother a H/W before putting any gravitas in them being a strategical component... for now, it feels as though 'there are weight classes for a reason' is typified by the gulf in genuine weight between the two (quickly packed on faux weight a legit HW does not make); as much of a genius as I think Jones is, this one raises more doubt than anything else. Chain-wrestling is exhausting if you're not used to the extra weight, and we're talking perhaps 50lb+ for Jones? It has a potential for an enormous backfire should he attempt it.
Saw the event. Thoughts:
Almeida hasn't been the same since Cody beat him. Fair fecks for carrying on though. Sugar seems like an insufferable cnut but he is dynamite in the cage. Will keep watching in the hopes someone sparks him.
Woodley... Time to go to PFL and try get that milli. When the fight started, I thought "oh here we go, the old Woodley is back!" But before I finished that thought, he was getting brutalized all around the cage. I know prior to this fight, he had three losses but it's the manner of those losses that was worrying. This fight showed that he's done.
Francis, WOW, the stuff of legend. Went back to the lab, corrected his flaws and won the title in great fashion. 30% Usman helping him makes him even more scary! Props to Stipe too, fought like a champion, no shame in losing at all. Round of applause for that man.
The narrative that Jones is scared is just silly in my opinion. Sure, if I were him, I'd stop that gains programme and switch to cardio but this is a guy that fights motherfeckers in a cage for a living! None of these athletes are scared ffs. He knew there was a 50% chance he'd be fighting Francis when he started bulking up... Get a grip guys.
It's this mentality that lets Dana screw over fighters from getting paid what they deserve. Bones wants proper money and he DESERVES it. Why? Because:
He is one of the GOATs
Cleaned out his division
Put in all the extra effort to become a legit HW, unlike Adesanya, who just went up to LHW and showed no respect for the division, thinking he can win without making adjustments.
Also, this would be one of the biggest fights in UFC history that doesn't involve McGregor, and Jones is a big part of why that is.
He deserves to get paid but some fans are spinning Dana's negotiation tactics that Jones is scared. These same people will then complain when they announce Ngannou v. Lewis 2...
As for the fight, Ngannou would be the favourite but I wouldn't count Bones out. He turns up for the big fights and is a smart guy in terms of gameplans.
It would be hella interesting and I for one NEED to see it!!
Ngannou stuffed around one take down attempt in the entire fight. I think it's difficult to start claiming he's much more well rounded in terms of wrestling etc. You'd definitely expect him to have worked on that since the Miocic loss but I don't think we saw enough last night to believe he's so much better rounded in that area. I'd say what helped him more was his steady and calm approach to the fight. It's not as if he was against an elite level wrestler and stuffed numerous takedowns.
He's a bad man though. How do you really bet against him in any fight right now? His power is insane. The thing is, even if Jones might not be prime Jones and all the discussion on PED's with him during that prime level, it's tough to bet against Jones too. It's power against a great overall rounded MMA talent IMO. I still think there's question marks over Ngannou's stamina, was clearly breathing out of his mouth in the first round last night. If you get a guy putting real pressure on him I'd be very worried or his stamina. Problem is, if you go in and try to put pressure on him, there's a great chance he knocks your head off. That's what makes the Jones fight fascinating. I'd have love to have seen Cormier against him actually, a guy who loves to pressure fighters and man handle them.
Really hope we get to see Jones/Ngannou next. No matter how you break Ngannou down he's one scary dude with unbelievable power, more than I can ever remember seeing in MMA actually. Brilliant for the Heavyweight division.
He's a bad man though. How do you really bet against him in any fight right now? His power is insane. The thing is, even if Jones might not be prime Jones and all the discussion on PED's with him during that prime level, it's tough to bet against Jones too. It's power against a great overall rounded MMA talent IMO. I still think there's question marks over Ngannou's stamina, was clearly breathing out of his mouth in the first round last night. If you get a guy putting real pressure on him I'd be very worried or his stamina. Problem is, if you go in and try to put pressure on him, there's a great chance he knocks your head off. That's what makes the Jones fight fascinating. I'd have love to have seen Cormier against him actually, a guy who loves to pressure fighters and man handle them.
Really hope we get to see Jones/Ngannou next. No matter how you break Ngannou down he's one scary dude with unbelievable power, more than I can ever remember seeing in MMA actually. Brilliant for the Heavyweight division.
Agreed. There is still no evidence of an Ngannou ground game beyond the one take down defense he did last night. I feel like Stipe came in with a slightly wrong game plan of allowing the fight to remain in stand up. He should've taken Francis down immediately and if he initially failed he should've spent much of the round continuing to try since Francis was never going to lose the fight if it remained in standup.
All things said, Stipe is 38 and basically more so in a retirement age range than one of a dominant champ, so it was inevitable he would lose the title at some point. As for Francis, the sky is the limit really. I'd like to see how he fares against Jones, as well as in a revenge rematch against the Black Beast and an up and comer like Gane.
I think Stipe got a little taken back by HOW that take down attempt went. Ngannou didn't just sprawl and move away. The takedown led to Stipe getting a pummeling, so maybe he just got shook there.
I agree that this is too small a sample to say Francis now has elite TD defense, but it's definitely an improvement on the last time, where Stipe was taking him down at will. This goes hand in hand with what we hear a lot about Frances, that he is a really quick learner. I can believe that.
Also, as I said, he did damage to Stipe from Stipe's own TD attempt, which is probably something that he learned training with Usman.
Just the idea that attempting to take him down can lead to the opposite fighter taking a beat down makes him even scarier.
This is the opposite to McGregor, who in the lighter divisions has good KO power but can't seem to adjust his style, thus is always there to be taken down.
He did a lot more than stuff the takedown - that's making light of what transpired. He also spun onto Stipe's back and when he tried to stand, clasped him and flung him to the ground like a ragdoll before starting to rain blows down. If that's not both discouraging and disheartening, I don't know what is. He not only stopped what Stipe thought was a strength; he turned into a situation lesser men than Stipe would have outright lost from. The fact he did it to Stipe also raises the bar of what it was because it's not some run-of-the-mill bum and there's no other wrestler out there except Blaydes who is going to that kind of action with any conviction.
It's a small sample size, but as was said before the fight, we don't get to see an examination of N'Gannou's improvements with other fighters because they're put to sleep so quickly.
I understand hype can tilt from under to over, but there's also the fact of calling a spade a spade and saying that was fantastic work from a guy who would have probably lost from that position last go round.
If Jones' strength holds up, he's an entirely different league to Stipe in terms of grappling, but that's another discussion entirely, because nobody wrestles like he does so he's an outlier.
Agree with all of this.
Just watched the Woodley fight again. Gave me flashbacks of the time my dad whooped me for stealing car radios.
Woodley talking about his role in the new season of Cobra Kai. Probably will get spanked there too
Woodley talking about his role in the new season of Cobra Kai. Probably will get spanked there too
Just watched the Woodley fight again. Gave me flashbacks of the time my dad whooped me for stealing car radios.
Woodley talking about his role in the new season of Cobra Kai. Probably will get spanked there too
Just watched the Woodley fight again. Gave me flashbacks of the time my dad whooped me for stealing car radios.
Woodley talking about his role in the new season of Cobra Kai. Probably will get spanked there too
My connection went out seconds after the fight began and it looked like Woodley went on the offensive. Moments later it came back and Woodley had lost.