The MMA thread

Oggmonster said:
In fairness I don't think anyone gave it as an excuse, just disagreed with the sentiment that he was as "motivated as he's ever been" I remember this thread around that time pretty much everyone was saying how fecked he is and he looked coked up/pissed up etc. I'm sure plenty of us have been in that situation at a much much much lower skill level with any kind of sport and you play much better when you're sober than pissed/coked up/hungover/on a comedown. I'm not claiming for 1 second he was drinking during the fight or anything I'm sure he wasn't but it has been strongly implied by his team his lifestyle was not good during the build up and training camp to that fight. It's not an excuse I imagine he loses either way but I don't think the Khabib fight is the most motivated he's ever been. From the outside in he was far more motivated vs. Aldo and also Alvarez (which was his best performance.)

Again, can only listen to what those around him say and the likes of Owen Roddy who seems a decent enough guy has had various interviews stating he lost focus for the Khabib fight and whilst he was training it wasn't his usual discpline, he said the Cerrone build up was different and they went back to what they knew...and it clearly worked.

Re the BT Sport stuff, can you record their box office and watch the next day? I know you can with Sky Sports....or is it like the Khabib fight which was actually on at a decent time?
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That stuff came after the fight. Their statements in the build up were all about how ready Conor was to "regain his throne". When you come out with statements that extenuate a loss after the fight (and out of nowhere), they're going to be regarded as excuses by many, unless there had been some indication that this was the case prior to the fight. Instead, every behind-the-scenes video and every comment by Conor and his camp all indicated he was sharp. Only after he lost in the manner he did did he and his camp change their tune.

In contrast, in the buildup to Khabib's fight against Justin Gaethje, his camp were open about Khabib having a less-than-ideal camp, but Javier Mendez prevaricated and said he would open up after the fight. After the fight, the details about his broken toe and hospitalisation emerged. Which was in line with their statements before the fight, and so lends credence to them. In Conor's case, they had nothing to say until after he lost handily, which makes them less credible, and that's why a lot of people dismiss them as excuses.
 
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Dirty Schwein said:
Nah you have to pay full whack for this on BT sport. Which is annoying as it'll probably be on at the silly hours of the morning.
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Yeah it's really shit having to pay for something at 4am, especially when already pay for BT anyway!! I didn't mind it with Khabib when it was on at 9ish or whenever as can make a bit of a night of it. It's even worse during a pandemic when not meant to have anyone round the house so can't split cost etc.

Ladron de redcafe said:
That stuff came after the fight. Their statements in the build up were all about how ready Conor was to "regain his throne". When you come out with statements that extenuate a loss after the fight (and out of nowhere), they're going to be regarded as excuses by many, unless there had been some indication that this was the case prior to the fight. Instead, every behind-the-scenes video and every comment by Conor and his camp all indicated he was sharp. Only after he lost in the manner he did did they he and his camp change their tune.

In contrast, in the buildup to Khabib's fight against Justin Gaethje, his camp were open about Khabib having a less-than-ideal camp, but Javier Mendez prevaricated and said he would open up after the fight. After the fight, the details about his broken toe and hospitalisation emerged. Which was in line with their statements before the fight. In cases likes these, the fact that the statements after the fight are consistent with those prior to the fight, lend credencr to them. In Conor's case, they had nothing to say until after he lost handily. In my opinion, that makes them less credible, and that's why a lot of people dismiss them as excuses.
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I mean it's probably not best approach before a fight to go "Yeah, guys fecked all the time basically....doesn't seem as arsed as he used to be." I'm not saying he would of won...no one was. The original statement was he was as motivated as he's ever been when that simply did not seem the case. People were actively commenting at the time he didn't seem right in that build up, it's come out since that he wasn't yet apparantly it's still not true? So basically the people who said he was fecked/pissed up all the time/partying constantly were proven right. Now they're arguing with themselves saying "nah that didn't happen."

I don't think it's the same as injuries either really. A lifestyle problem is a lot harder for people to go and discuss rather than people carrying knocks, most fighters carry knocks in sparring etc it's the way the fight industry is. I think Conor's excuses were clear after the fight with his Instagram posts where he was saying there was lucky shots etc but he did seem to have demons etc in that fight. It seems people just refuse to believe him whatever he says really.

Both statements can also be true....he could of made excuses but also not been "as motivated as ever" for that Khabib fight. Again, I don't think many people would argue he was clearly much more motivated for the Alvarez fight for example than the Khabib one. The Alvarez fight is the best he ever looked, he dismantled him and it was his goal to be a double champ in the UFC.
 
Oggmonster said:
Yeah it's really shit having to pay for something at 4am, especially when already pay for BT anyway!! I didn't mind it with Khabib when it was on at 9ish or whenever as can make a bit of a night of it. It's even worse during a pandemic when not meant to have anyone round the house so can't split cost etc.



I mean it's probably not best approach before a fight to go "Yeah, guys fecked all the time basically....doesn't seem as arsed as he used to be." I'm not saying he would of won...no one was. The original statement was he was as motivated as he's ever been when that simply did not seem the case. People were actively commenting at the time he didn't seem right in that build up, it's come out since that he wasn't yet apparantly it's still not true? So basically the people who said he was fecked/pissed up all the time/partying constantly were proven right. Now they're arguing with themselves saying "nah that didn't happen."

I don't think it's the same as injuries either really. A lifestyle problem is a lot harder for people to go and discuss rather than people carrying knocks, most fighters carry knocks in sparring etc it's the way the fight industry is. I think Conor's excuses were clear after the fight with his Instagram posts where he was saying there was lucky shots etc but he did seem to have demons etc in that fight. It seems people just refuse to believe him whatever he says really.

Both statements can also be true....he could of made excuses but also not been "as motivated as ever" for that Khabib fight. Again, I don't think many people would argue he was clearly much more motivated for the Alvarez fight for example than the Khabib one. The Alvarez fight is the best he ever looked, he dismantled him and it was his goal to be a double champ in the UFC.
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People were commenting both ways. Conor himself was talking about how he was training harder than he had since his early years. Why would I discard that statement and believe his excuse? In fact, lots of people before the Khabib Vs Gaethje fight were saying that Khabib didn't look like himself and that "there's smoke where there's fire" regarding Mendez's interviews before the fight. Does that mean that Khabib wasn't focused on the Gaethje fight? Of course not.

You seem to have gone on a random tangent bringing up Alvarez. I'm not sure why he matters in this discussion. Not only can you not prove he was any more motivated there than he was prior to the Khabib fight (conjecture), but it's trivial. Khabib is the greatest lightweight ever and possible the greatest MMA fighter ever. Alverez isn't even in the upper echelon of greatest fighters.

Conor looked better against Alvarez than he did against Khabib because nobody looks great against Khabib. Because....he isn't going to let you look great. Regardless of how "motivated" Conor is, Khabib is just a much better fighter. Just as he is a much better fighter than RDA. And Poirier. And Gaethje. Those guys didn't get dominated because they "lacked focus" and there's no reason to believe Conor got beaten as badly he did because of that either. Especially when it goes against his own words coming into the fight.
 
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Ladron de redcafe said:
People were commenting both ways. Conor himself was talking about how he was training harder than he had since his early years. Why would I discard that statement and believe his excuse? In fact, lots of people before the Khabib Vs Gaethje fight were saying that Khabib didn't look like himself and that "there's smoke where there's fire" regarding Mendez's interviews before the fight. Does that mean that Khabib wasn't focused on the Gaethje fight? Of course not.

You seem to have gone on a random tangent bringing up Alvarez. I'm not sure why he matters in this discussion. Not only can you not prove he was any more motivated there than he was prior to the Khabib fight (conjecture), but it's trivial. Khabib is the greatest lightweight ever and possible the greatest MMA fighter ever. Alverez isn't even in the upper echelon of greatest fighters.

Conor looked better against Alvarez than he did against Khabib because nobody looks great against Khabib. Because....he isn't going to let you look great. Regardless of how "motivated" Conor is, Khabib is just a much better fighter. Just as he is a much better fighter than RDA. And Poirier. And Gaethje. Those guys didn't get dominated because they "lacked focus" and there's no reason to believe Conor got beaten as badly he did because of that either. Especially when it goes against his own words coming into the fight.
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It seems when it suits people will say press conferences are nonsense/trash talk means nothing etc but then over analyse everything that's said in them when it works for the point they're making...They're all pretty generic comments, no one has ever said "I feel shite and can't be arsed with it really." Be a bit weird. I'm not even suggesting he wasn't motivated, just it came out that he had changed his routine and they didn't think it was productive and they changed it back for Cerrone and look what happened there. At first you agreed with the sentiment that none of us know these fighters, people like Kavangah, Roddy etc (i.e. people directly involved with the fighter) have said he wasn't as motivated for it. Why is it now you're saying he was so implying they're wrong. Yet Khabib's coach has said he wasn't fit for Gaethje and you're seemingly taking that as gospel?

How is Alvarez a "random tangent" exactly? You stated " Conor was as motivated as he has ever been against Khabib. " I then listed a fight where it is pretty widely recognised he was the most motivated he has been and put on a master class. How is that a random tangent? It's counter arguging a point which is the whole reason of debate surely? It literally has a direct point to the debate in hand. No one has even argued Khabib isn't a great fighter or Alvarez is better....it's honestly really weird how defensive people seem to get about Khabib. Does every MMA conversation have to end with the caveat he is the best? No one claimed Alvarez is better than Khabib, literally the whole point was "He seemed more motivated for Alvarez than he did Khabib" why is this so offensive? Why does it seem everything with MMA these days has to somehow find it's way back to Khabib being the best.

Again, I agree with your sentiment Khabib is better than them, I'm merely pointing out he seemed more motivated in other fights....why is it so hard to believe? Lets be fair, Aldo was his huge break, Alvarez was his dream of being a 2 weight champion. He'd achieved everything. Would he be the first fighter in history to lose motivation or be less motivated once he achieved his goals? Seriously not every post is an anti-Khabib post, lets all agree he's the greatest human to walk the earth if it makes people happier.
 
Oggmonster said:
It seems when it suits people will say press conferences are nonsense/trash talk means nothing etc but then over analyse everything that's said in them when it works for the point they're making...They're all pretty generic comments, no one has ever said "I feel shite and can't be arsed with it really." Be a bit weird. I'm not even suggesting he wasn't motivated, just it came out that he had changed his routine and they didn't think it was productive and they changed it back for Cerrone and look what happened there. At first you agreed with the sentiment that none of us know these fighters, people like Kavangah, Roddy etc (i.e. people directly involved with the fighter) have said he wasn't as motivated for it. Why is it now you're saying he was so implying they're wrong. Yet Khabib's coach has said he wasn't fit for Gaethje and you're seemingly taking that as gospel?

How is Alvarez a "random tangent" exactly? You stated " Conor was as motivated as he has ever been against Khabib. " I then listed a fight where it is pretty widely recognised he was the most motivated he has been and put on a master class. How is that a random tangent? It's counter arguging a point which is the whole reason of debate surely? It literally has a direct point to the debate in hand. No one has even argued Khabib isn't a great fighter or Alvarez is better....it's honestly really weird how defensive people seem to get about Khabib. Does every MMA conversation have to end with the caveat he is the best? No one claimed Alvarez is better than Khabib, literally the whole point was "He seemed more motivated for Alvarez than he did Khabib" why is this so offensive? Why does it seem everything with MMA these days has to somehow find it's way back to Khabib being the best.

Again, I agree with your sentiment Khabib is better than them, I'm merely pointing out he seemed more motivated in other fights....why is it so hard to believe? Lets be fair, Aldo was his huge break, Alvarez was his dream of being a 2 weight champion. He'd achieved everything. Would he be the first fighter in history to lose motivation or be less motivated once he achieved his goals? Seriously not every post is an anti-Khabib post, lets all agree he's the greatest human to walk the earth if it makes people happier.
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None of that block of text says anything new that substantiates your conjecture. If you insist that Conor was lying when he said that he was training harder than ever before the Khabib fight or that he was as focused as ever, that's your prerogative. But there's a reason a lot of people dismiss Connor's excuses as just that.....excuses. That last puerile sentence bespeaks a little bitterness.

There isnt really a way to prove how focused a fighter was before a fight. We just have to go by their words before the fight. And Conor and his team let everyone know how focused he was prior to the Khabib fight.

Then Khabib slaughtered Conor to such an extent that Conor leaned into Khabib and said "it's only business", literally imploring Khabib to go easy on him before Khabib broke Conor's will (by making him tap with a neck crank, of all things) just as he said he was going to do. And only after this humiliation did Conor and his camp change their tune and trot out every excuse imaginable so that they could cope with what transpired.

If you'd like to believe that Conor was lying about his training and determination before the fight, then by all means go ahead. It doesn't mean the rest of the MMA fans are going to put any stock into that. We could agree to disagree.

And again...all the Alvarez stuff isn't just tangential; i's irrelavant. Conor can put on a "masterclass" against Alavrez because Alvarez is not an elite all time great in the same breath as Khabib. We are talking about combat sports. Better fighters, such as Khabib, won't allow people like Conor to put on anything resembling a "masterclass", because they would outclass him.
 
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Ladron de redcafe said:
None of that block of text says anything new that substantiates your conjecture. If you insist that Conor was lying when he said that he was training harder than ever before the Khabib fight or that he was as focused as ever, that's your prerogative. But there's a reason a lot of people dismiss Connor's excuses as just that.....excuses. That last puerile sentence bespeaks a little bitterness.

There isnt really a way to prove how focused a fighter was before a fight. We just have to go by their words before the fight. And Conor and his team let everyone know how focused he was prior to the Khabib fight.

Then Khabib slaughtered Conor to such an extent that Conor leaned into Khabib and said "it's only business", literally imploring Khabib to go easy on him before Khabib broke Conor's will (by making him tap with a neck crank, of all things) just as he said he was going to do. And only after this humiliation did Conor and his camp change their tune and trot out every excuse imaginable so that they could cope with what transpired.

If you'd like to believe that Conor was lying about his training and determination before the fight, then by all means go ahead. It doesn't mean the rest of the MMA fans are going to put any stock into that. We could agree to disagree.

And again...all the Alvarez stuff isn't just tangential; i's irrelavant. Conor can put on a "masterclass" against Alavrez because Alvarez is not an elite all time great in the same breath as Khabib. We are talking about combat sports. Better fighters, such as Khabib, won't allow people like Conor to put on anything resembling a "masterclass", because they would outclass him.
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Hahah that first paragraph made me laugh, like you choked on a Russell Brand podcast!! It seems you feel really strongly about this...I'm hardly suggesting he told the lie of the century, merely it's pretty common for fighters to go in to a fight saying they feel good, even if they don't. Do you not agree with that? Do you think every other fighter is 100% honest in their press conferences? Re the "last puerile sentence" (nice words again) could you explain how it's bitterness? Why would I be bitter? I don't particularly mind Khabib, it's just really tiresome any time you suggest anything that even remotely relates to him....and in this conversation it's not even the slightest bit negative about him, people get dead defensive. This is eerily similar to another poster on here who got ultra defensive any time Khabib was mentioned and it just gets boring.

There isn't a way, your right. So why do you insit you're correct? Again, you and I don't know these fighters, I merely stated originally he seemed way more focued for the Aldo fight and the Alvarez fight than the Khabib fight. Lets put it this way then, he has said before every fight how focued he is, how up for it he is. So therefore all that talk cancels each other out....so next you go on performances, he looked far better vs. Alvarez especially than Khabib. So will you concede it's slightly possible he was more up for that fight?? And no I am not suggesting Alvarez is anywhere near Khabib so I don't get why that keeps being said. I'm perfectly aware you can look better vs. a worse fighter, thanks for reminding me though.

Your 3rd point is again your love in with Khabib, we all saw the fight, no one disputed that bit so I don't get why it keeps getting mentioned.

We can agree to disagree, equally it seems you refuse to accept anyone elses point. Maybe Conor was more up for the Khabib fight, equally maybe he felt he had achieved his goals and honestly wasn't that focused. In fact I bet if you go back in this thread to around the time of the press conferences it is plenty of people saying he was coked up/pissed up/not interested. The one where he comes on stage with a bottle of whiskey is painful to watch.

Tangential, another nice word. But again, you can put on a masterclass against fighters who aren't Khabib, why is that not allowed? So basically everyones fights are irrelevant unless they fight the best? DC is 0-2 cos he lost to Jones twice, Conor is 0-1 cos he lost to Khabib, Poirier and Gaejthe the same? Surely people are allowed to get credited for performances that aren't against the best? Alvarez was still a UFC champion and had decimated RDA previously which no one had done that easily, he wasn't a bum. What about knocking Aldo out can we praise that one all? We all know Khabib is better than Conor, it's honestly odd you and the "previous poster" from last time this was debated want to isist on everything being about him and have to jump in to defend his honour.
 
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Oggmonster said:
Hahah that first paragraph made me laugh, like you choked on a Russell Brand podcast!! It seems you feel really strongly about this...I'm hardly suggesting he told the lie of the century, merely it's pretty common for fighters to go in to a fight saying they feel good, even if they don't. Do you not agree with that? Do you think every other fighter is 100% honest in their press conferences? Re the "last puerile sentence" (nice words again) could you explain how it's bitterness? Why would I be bitter? I don't particularly mind Khabib, it's just really tiresome any time you suggest anything that even remotely relates to him....and in this conversation it's not even the slightest bit negative about him, people get dead defensive. This is eerily similar to another poster on here who got ultra defensive any time Khabib was mentioned and it just gets boring.

There isn't a way, your right. So why do you insit you're correct? Again, you and I don't know these fighters, I merely stated originally he seemed way more focued for the Aldo fight and the Alvarez fight than the Khabib fight. Lets put it this way then, he has said before every fight how focued he is, how up for it he is. So therefore all that talk cancels each other out....so next you go on performances, he looked far better vs. Alvarez especially than Khabib. So will you concede it's slightly possible he was more up for that fight?? And no I am not suggesting Alvarez is anywhere near Khabib so I don't get why that keeps being said. I'm perfectly aware you can look better vs. a worse fighter, thanks for reminding me though.

Your 3rd point is again your love in with Khabib, we all saw the fight, no one disputed that bit so I don't get why it keeps getting mentioned.

We can agree to disagree, equally it seems you refuse to accept anyone elses point. Maybe Conor was more up for the Khabib fight, equally maybe he felt he had achieved his goals and honestly wasn't that focused. In fact I bet if you go back in this thread to around the time of the press conferences it is plenty of people saying he was coked up/pissed up/not interested. The one where he comes on stage with a bottle of whiskey is painful to watch.

Tangential, another nice word. But again, you can put on a masterclass against fighters who aren't Khabib, why is that not allowed? So basically everyones fights are irrelevant unless they fight the best? DC is 0-2 cos he lost to Jones twice, Conor is 0-1 cos he lost to Khabib, Poirier and Gaejthe the same? Surely people are allowed to get credited for performances that aren't against the best? Alvarez was still a UFC champion and had decimated RDA previously which no one had done that easily, he wasn't a bum. What about knocking Aldo out can we praise that one all? We all know Khabib is better than Conor, it's honestly odd you and the "previous poster" from last time this was debated want to isist on everything being about him and have to jump in to defend his honour.
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Projections, strawmans, and ad-lapidums. Certainly indicative of someone obstinate about his views. To cap it all off insinuating I'm some "previous" poster because I'm guessing said previous poster has the same view that I and most MMA fans have regarding Conor's excuses.

This isn't remotely complex. The sequence of events is as follows:

1- Conor says that he trained harder than he had done since his very early days in MMA and that he was as motivated and determined as he'd ever been.
2- Conor gets emasculated by a much better fighter
3- Seeing that his reputation was vitiated, Conor trots out excuses and changes his tune and leaks storie that he wasn't focused.

Most MMA fans see those excuses for what they are. Excuses. If you want to believe otherwise, then as I said you're free to do so by all means. I haven't got a clue why someone would be so wound by by the fact that other people don't accept Conor's excuses.

If you have anything of substance to say, I'll be here. If you're going to post paragraphs of drivel filled with "haha i laughed" "haha nice word" "why do u defend the other guy so much?", while regurgitating the same discursive irrelavant points, then there really isn't a point in even having a discussion. Talking about how good you think Conor looked against a much inferior fighter than Khabib and using that as "proof" that Conor was more motivated then than he was against Khabib is just illogical.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
Projections, strawmans, and ad-lapidums. Certainly indicative of someone obstinate about his views. To cap it all off insinuating I'm some "previous" poster because I'm guessing said previous poster has the same view that I and most MMA fans have regarding Conor's excuses.

This isn't remotely complex. The sequence of events is as follows:

1- Conor says that he trained harder than he had done since his very early days in MMA and that he was as motivated and determined as he'd ever been.
2- Conor gets emasculated by a much better fighter
3- Seeing that his reputation was vitiated, Conor trots out excuses and changes his tune and leaks storie that he wasn't focused.

Most MMA fans see those excuses for what they are. Excuses. If you want to believe otherwise, then as I said you're free to do so by all means. I haven't got a clue why someone would be so wound by by the fact that other people don't accept Conor's excuses.

If you have anything of substance to say, I'll be here. If you're going to post paragraphs of drivel filled with "haha i laughed" "haha nice word" "why do u defend the other guy so much?", while regurgitating the same discursive irrelavant points, then there really isn't a point in even having a discussion. Talking about how good you think Conor looked against a much inferior fighter than Khabib and using that as "proof" that Conor was more motivated then than he was against Khabib is just illogical.
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:lol: :lol: You're either taking the piss or you got a theasaurus for Christmas.

How do you say someone is obstintate about their views when then you're presented a question you either don't answer or even refuse to acknowledge that there may be another point of view? I've not suggested McGregor is 100% not motivated for a Khabib fight, I'm sure he was motivated. The first quote was " Conor was as motivated as he has ever been against Khabib" I merely suggested that may not be the case and that he seemed more motivated for previous fights in the past. You have 100% dismissed this and refuse to acknowledge that's the case.

Your points:
Point 1. Again, will you answer the question. Do you believe every fighter when they say that? It's literally the most common thing they say "I'm more focused than ever" etc etc. Course he could of been...I again just said that may just be your usual pre fight talk that happens every single fight.
Point 2. I agreed, you really have to squeeze in how good Khabib is in every post
Point 3. Again, they may be excuses, or maybe they're the truth. Why won't you answer other questions? How come when that press conference happened it was all over this thread, twitter etc how fecked McGregor seemed. Surely you could admit he may not of been as focused as he previously had been? I'm not saying it's 100% the case just it's a mere possibility. Why won't you even acknowledge that?

The famous Hagler quote springs to mind about being tough to get out of bed when you're wearing silk pyjamas. By the Khabib fight McGregor had already become a 2 weight champion, he'd fought Mayweather and made 100million dollars apparently. Surely you can see how that may mean he isn't as motivated as he previously may of been? I don't know the guy, neither do you. We're speculating completely in all honesty, he may of been more motivated than ever...he may of not...i'm not really suggesting either is the case, I thought it was a pretty innocent comment to acknowledge he may of been more motivated for previous fights as it was a pretty common opinion he was pretty obviously on a massive bender during the Khabib stuff, if you think differently then fair enough. I'm not wound up in the slightest it genuinely doesn't bother me.

Re the wording stuff it just made me laugh, don't get so upset by it.

Finally some home refurbishment ideas for your Khabib themed bedroom if you want them as well:

DOMWBezW0AA3TsP.jpg
 
Oggmonster said:
:lol: :lol: You're either taking the piss or you got a theasaurus for Christmas.

How do you say someone is obstintate about their views when then you're presented a question you either don't answer or even refuse to acknowledge that there may be another point of view? I've not suggested McGregor is 100% not motivated for a Khabib fight, I'm sure he was motivated. The first quote was " Conor was as motivated as he has ever been against Khabib" I merely suggested that may not be the case and that he seemed more motivated for previous fights in the past. You have 100% dismissed this and refuse to acknowledge that's the case.

Your points:
Point 1. Again, will you answer the question. Do you believe every fighter when they say that? It's literally the most common thing they say "I'm more focused than ever" etc etc. Course he could of been...I again just said that may just be your usual pre fight talk that happens every single fight.
Point 2. I agreed, you really have to squeeze in how good Khabib is in every post
Point 3. Again, they may be excuses, or maybe they're the truth. Why won't you answer other questions? How come when that press conference happened it was all over this thread, twitter etc how fecked McGregor seemed. Surely you could admit he may not of been as focused as he previously had been? I'm not saying it's 100% the case just it's a mere possibility. Why won't you even acknowledge that?

The famous Hagler quote springs to mind about being tough to get out of bed when you're wearing silk pyjamas. By the Khabib fight McGregor had already become a 2 weight champion, he'd fought Mayweather and made 100million dollars apparently. Surely you can see how that may mean he isn't as motivated as he previously may of been? I don't know the guy, neither do you. We're speculating completely in all honesty, he may of been more motivated than ever...he may of not...i'm not really suggesting either is the case, I thought it was a pretty innocent comment to acknowledge he may of been more motivated for previous fights as it was a pretty common opinion he was pretty obviously on a massive bender during the Khabib stuff, if you think differently then fair enough. I'm not wound up in the slightest it genuinely doesn't bother me.

Re the wording stuff it just made me laugh, don't get so upset by it.

Finally some home refurbishment ideas for your Khabib themed bedroom if you want them as well:

DOMWBezW0AA3TsP.jpg
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As I said, if you aren't going to address any of the points on hand and instead are going to repeatedly type up blocks of prolix inanities that have nothing to do with the topic, we shouldn't be having a discussion. It's not only a waste of my time, but a waste of yours.

We're discussing whether Conor changing his tune after getting beaten by Khabib gives lends credence to his excuses or impugns them. I believe it's the latter. You believe it's the former and you seem wound up that others disagree with you. So feel free to continue lapping them up, if it helps you cope.

I'm not a Khabib fan either. I'm an MMA fan and the closest I am to being a "fan" of a specific fighter is St. Pierre. You do seem to be a crazed Conor fan who has trouble assimilating that others don't share your views and, in response, project and lash out. Keep that Conor shrine for yourself.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
As I said, if you aren't going to address any of the points on hand and instead are going to repeatedly type up blocks of prolix inanities that have nothing to do with the topic, we shouldn't be having a discussion. It's not only a waste of my time, but a waste of yours.

We're discussing whether Conor changing his tune after getting beaten by Khabib gives lends credence to his excuses or impugns them. I believe it's the latter. You believe it's the former and you seem wound up that others disagree with you. So feel free to continue lapping them up, if it helps you cope.

I'm not a Khabib fan either. I'm an MMA fan and the closest I am to being a "fan" of a specific fighter is St. Pierre. You do seem to be a crazed Conor fan who has trouble assimilating that others don't share your views and, in response, project and lash out. Keep that Conor shrine for yourself.
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What bits do you want answering? I literally answered everything I can see.

I asked you questions which you didn't answer either:

Point 1. Again, will you answer the question. Do you believe every fighter when they say that? In relation to "It's the best I've ever felt"
Point 3. Again, they may be excuses, or maybe they're the truth. Why won't you answer other questions? How come when that press conference happened it was all over this thread, twitter etc how fecked McGregor seemed. Surely you could admit he may not of been as focused as he previously had been? I'm not saying it's 100% the case just it's a mere possibility. Why won't you even acknowledge that?

Why won't you answer either of these?

We weren't discussing that at all either. The original point was " Conor was as motivated as he has ever been against Khabib" I'm not disputing the timing of when he said he felt good/bad/indifferent, I'm not bothered enough to look. I'm merely pointing out my original point was he seemed more motivated in previous fights looking from the outside in. Another question can you concede that may be the case? That maybe...just maybe, he was more motivated for Aldo or Alvarez for example?

I'm not wound up at all mate, just love your use of vocabulary it really does remind me of Russell Brand as I said where he chucks words in for the sake of it to sound super intellctual. I don't particulary care either way if he was or wasn't motivated, it doesn't change anything with the fight, I'm just trying to point out what the original point we were dsicussing actually was.

Again, I'm not that arsed either way about McGregor, in fact I've slated him loads in the past in this thread. I've literally not argued the toss about the fight outcome or anything, we all know who the better fighter is, you seem adament to not admit "Yeah maybe he was more motivated in previous fights." If people don't like the guy it's fair enough, I can see why cos he is a bellend which I've said plenty of times in the past. Don't get me wrong he has some very funny moments in press conferences (unfortunately they are a thing of the past it seems for him) and I think he's an entertaining fighter but that's it really...not bothered either way other than that.

If you let me know what questions I missed I'll happily answer and if you could answer the ones I've reasked be great cheers :)
 
Oggmonster said:
What bits do you want answering? I literally answered everything I can see.

I asked you questions which you didn't answer either:

Point 1. Again, will you answer the question. Do you believe every fighter when they say that? In relation to "It's the best I've ever felt"
Point 3. Again, they may be excuses, or maybe they're the truth. Why won't you answer other questions? How come when that press conference happened it was all over this thread, twitter etc how fecked McGregor seemed. Surely you could admit he may not of been as focused as he previously had been? I'm not saying it's 100% the case just it's a mere possibility. Why won't you even acknowledge that?

Why won't you answer either of these?

We weren't discussing that at all either. The original point was " Conor was as motivated as he has ever been against Khabib" I'm not disputing the timing of when he said he felt good/bad/indifferent, I'm not bothered enough to look. I'm merely pointing out my original point was he seemed more motivated in previous fights looking from the outside in. Another question can you concede that may be the case? That maybe...just maybe, he was more motivated for Aldo or Alvarez for example?

I'm not wound up at all mate, just love your use of vocabulary it really does remind me of Russell Brand as I said where he chucks words in for the sake of it to sound super intellctual. I don't particulary care either way if he was or wasn't motivated, it doesn't change anything with the fight, I'm just trying to point out what the original point we were dsicussing actually was.

Again, I'm not that arsed either way about McGregor, in fact I've slated him loads in the past in this thread. I've literally not argued the toss about the fight outcome or anything, we all know who the better fighter is, you seem adament to not admit "Yeah maybe he was more motivated in previous fights." If people don't like the guy it's fair enough, I can see why cos he is a bellend which I've said plenty of times in the past. Don't get me wrong he has some very funny moments in press conferences (unfortunately they are a thing of the past it seems for him) and I think he's an entertaining fighter but that's it really...not bothered either way other than that.

If you let me know what questions I missed I'll happily answer and if you could answer the ones I've reasked be great cheers :)
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You say that you're not bothered about Conor. Now, I'm going to quickly recap what transpired over the past few posts:

You've written hysterical responses and random musings about how good Conor was against fighter X and fighter y when it had nothing to do with the fight we are discussing (Khabib Vs Conor). When I discussed that fight, you dismissed it as "your Khabib love-in" while you insisted on talking about Conor's previous fights, for some odd reason, when they had absolutely no relevance to the discussion.

You then chose to accuse me of being another poster because whoever the other poster is shares the same view that I and most MMA fans have regarding the Khabib Vs Conor fight. I bet you reckon the vast majority of the 2000 Sherdog posters are all the same person since the almost unanimous consensus is that Conor's excuses are...
excuses.

You then divagate and choose to project, calling me a Khabib fan with a shrine (ironic given that you're evidently a overzealous Conor fan who feels the name to randomly right paragraphs of irrelavant text about Conor Vs Also, Conor Vs Alvarez and a million other things that have no relevance of the topic on hand).

I corrected your first silly, unfounded insinuation that I'm whatever "previous poster" also argued with you in the past. And the mods are free to run IP checks to corroborate what I'm saying.

I then corrected your projection that I'm a "Khabib fan with a shrine" which seems to be you getting defensive because someone criticized Conor.

-------------------

Now, I'll gladly address what you wanted me to address in your bullet points:



1-You asked whether I believe a fighter when he says he's trained more than every before a fight? Unless I have a reason to doubt that، why wouldn't i?

On the other hand, when a fighter has a vested interest in claiming that he wasn't prepared AFTER already losing a fight, why can't you entertain the possibility that those claims aren't true?


2- "I'm merely pointing out my original point was he seemed more motivated in previous fights looking from the outside in..../" can you concede that that might be the case"

The first sentence is subjective. That didn't appear to be the case to me and didn't appear to be the case to many others. It might have appeared to be the case to you (and others), which is fine. We were on the outside looking in.

2- Can i concede that Conor was lying about being focused and that despite saying that he was training harder than he had done since his younger years and as motivated as he had ever been (which he didn't say prior to the other fights you mentioned)?

Of course. I conceded that from the beginning. I told you you're allowed that opinion. You don't need to believe what I believe. And I definitely have no way of knowing whether a statement is true or not.

------------------

What are we discussing?

The discussion - and it's an extremely simple one - is whether the fact that Conor and his camp contradicted themselves and their earlier statements, lends credibility to their excuses or weakens them? To a lot of people, this a simple answer. It's a lot more likely that Conor was being truthfu before the fight but giving excuses afterwards because:

1- They had a vested interest in trotting excuses after the loss.
2- They weren't consistent with their statements. They were contradicting themselves at every turn.

You keep asking whether I can concede that the opposite (however unlikely) might be the case, as if the debate were centered around whether it's impossible that Conor was lying? It isn't. And you're shifting goalposts.
 
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Ladron de redcafe said:
You say that you're not bothered about Conor. Now, I'm going to quickly recap what transpired over the past few posts:

You've written hysterical responses and random musings about how good Conor was against fighter X and fighter y when it had nothing to do with the fight we are discussing (Khabib Vs Conor). When I discussed that fight, you dismissed it as "your Khabib love-in" while you insisted on talking about Conor's previous fights, for some odd reason, when they had absolutely no relevance to the discussion.

You then chose to accuse me of being another poster because whoever the other poster is shares the same view that I and most MMA fans have regarding the Khabib Vs Conor fight. I bet you reckon the vast majority of the 2000 Sherdog posters are all the same person since the almost unanimous consensus is that Conor's excuses are...
excuses.

You then divagate and choose to project, calling me a Khabib fan with a shrine (ironic given that you're evidently a overzealous Conor fan who feels the name to randomly right paragraphs of irrelavant text about Conor Vs Also, Conor Vs Alvarez and a million other things that have no relevance of the topic on hand).

I corrected your first silly, unfounded insinuation that I'm whatever "previous poster" also argued with you in the past. And the mods are free to run IP checks to corroborate what I'm saying.

I then corrected your projection that I'm a "Khabib fan with a shrine" which seems to be you getting defensive because someone criticized Conor.

-------------------

Now, I'll gladly address what you wanted me to address in your bullet points:



1-You asked whether I believe a fighter when he says he's trained more than every before a fight? Unless I have a reason to doubt that، why wouldn't i?

On the other hand, when a fighter has a vested interest in claiming that he wasn't prepared AFTER already losing a fight, why can't you entertain the possibility that those claims aren't true?


2- "I'm merely pointing out my original point was he seemed more motivated in previous fights looking from the outside in..../" can you concede that that might be the case"

The first sentence is subjective. That didn't appear to be the case to me and didn't appear to be the case to many others. It might have appeared to be the case to you (and others), which is fine. We were on the outside looking in.

2- Can i concede that Conor was lying about being focused and that despite saying that he was training harder than he had done since his younger years and as motivated as he had ever been (which he didn't say prior to the other fights you mentioned)?

Of course. I conceded that from the beginning. I told you you're allowed the differing opinion. I have no way of knowing whether a statement is true or not. It's whether I believe his statements or not. I have no reason to believe his 2nd claims any more than I did his first.
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But the original comment wasn't about who won Khabib vs. Conor etc, it was merely you said (which is your opinion) it was the "most motivated he's ever been" I disagree with that and then named 2 fights (aldo and Alvarez) as 2 examples where I think he may of been more motivated. SUrely that's not a random musing? Surely that's a fair comparison. I'm not judging their ability (although Aldo is up there as one of the GOATs, especially when Conor fought him), I'm not judging who is the bigger name, who is the harder fighter. I'm just stating "He seemed more up for them 2 fights from what I saw." Surely it's fair to name the other fights which I think he was more motivated for? Because if I didn't you'd rightfully probably ask which fights I think he was more motivated for, so it just saves asking a question. I didn't dismiss it, in fact I even said:

Oggmonster said:
I agree Khabib bettered him but I really don't think it was beyond the realms of possibility that he had demons and wasn't highly motivated for the Khabib fight compared to now.
Click to expand...

Oggmonster said:
Again, I agree with your sentiment Khabib is better than them, I'm merely pointing out he seemed more motivated in other fights....
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I literally just stated I think McGregor is a bit of a bellend so not sure I'm an overzealous fan etc, although if that's what you think then fair enough no worries. I enjoy watching his fights cos it's an entertaining style so I'll keep watching. I was having a laugh with the Alan Partridge stuff to lighten the mood somewhat.

I've never been on sherdog in my life, not really that interested in it. Again though it was common opinion that you read during the build up to the Khabib vs. Conor fight that he wasn't 100% focused, in fact I'm sure it was around that time he was punching old men and having accusations flying around about him.

I couldn't care less if someone criticised him, he deserves plenty of criticism for how he can be. I again pointed out it's just a bit boring that any time Khabib gets mentioned and it's not 100% praise people seem to get a tad defensive.

If you could please point me to questions I didn't answer like you said I'd be happy to help, appreciate you answered mine so only fair.

If you believe fighters with what they say in press conferences etc then fair enough that's for you to decide. Personally I never take any of them seriously but each to their own.
 
Oggmonster said:
But the original comment wasn't about who won Khabib vs. Conor etc, it was merely you said (which is your opinion) it was the "most motivated he's ever been" I disagree with that and then named 2 fights (aldo and Alvarez) as 2 examples where I think he may of been more motivated. SUrely that's not a random musing? Surely that's a fair comparison. I'm not judging their ability (although Aldo is up there as one of the GOATs, especially when Conor fought him), I'm not judging who is the bigger name, who is the harder fighter. I'm just stating "He seemed more up for them 2 fights from what I saw." Surely it's fair to name the other fights which I think he was more motivated for? Because if I didn't you'd rightfully probably ask which fights I think he was more motivated for, so it just saves asking a question. I didn't dismiss it, in fact I even said:





I literally just stated I think McGregor is a bit of a bellend so not sure I'm an overzealous fan etc, although if that's what you think then fair enough no worries. I enjoy watching his fights cos it's an entertaining style so I'll keep watching. I was having a laugh with the Alan Partridge stuff to lighten the mood somewhat.

I've never been on sherdog in my life, not really that interested in it. Again though it was common opinion that you read during the build up to the Khabib vs. Conor fight that he wasn't 100% focused, in fact I'm sure it was around that time he was punching old men and having accusations flying around about him.

I couldn't care less if someone criticised him, he deserves plenty of criticism for how he can be. I again pointed out it's just a bit boring that any time Khabib gets mentioned and it's not 100% praise people seem to get a tad defensive.

If you could please point me to questions I didn't answer like you said I'd be happy to help, appreciate you answered mine so only fair.

If you believe fighters with what they say in press conferences etc then fair enough that's for you to decide. Personally I never take any of them seriously but each to their own.
Click to expand...

But you decide to take the 2nd statements seriously and discard the first.

Regarding your musings about Conor putting on"masterclasses" against inferior opponents than Khabib, I'm not sure what you mean by fair. I pointed out very early on that Conor was allowed to look as great as he did by Alvarez because the likes of Alvarez aren't in the same breath as Khabib and we are discussing combat sports. To use that as "proof" that Conor looked more motivated than he did in the Khabib fight is just bizzare.

To then lash out and accuse me of having a "Khabib love in", having a shrine to Khabib, and then accuse me of being another poster is extremely odd behaviour. When I called you out on it, rather than spend 2 seconds and apologize for inventing stuff and lashing out, you decided to shift goalposts and divagate.

I've repeatedly said that you're allowed your opinion. It isn't impossible that the unlikely sequence of events that you want to believe happend is true. If you want to believe every fighter's excuses, you're free to do so. But don't put words in my mouth. I never enforced my view on you nor do I care how you feel. This is simply a discussion.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
But you decide to take the 2nd statements seriously and discard the first.

Regarding your musings about Conor putting on"masterclasses" against inferior opponents than Khabib, I'm not sure what you mean by fair. I pointed out very early on that Conor was allowed to look as great as he did by Alvarez because he isn't in the same breath as Khabib and we are discussing combat sports. To use that as "proof" that Conor looked more motivated than he did in the Khabib fight is just bizzare.

To then lash out and accuse me of having a "Khabib love in", having a shrine to Khabib, and then accuse me of being another poster is extremely odd behaviour. When I called you out on it, rather than spend 2 seconds and apologize for inventing stuff and lashing out, you decided to shift goalposts and divagate.
Click to expand...

Sorry I don't know what you mean by the 2nd and first statements? I haven taken everything you said on board. Again I'm not disputing who is the better fighter out of Conor and Khabib as they've fought and we know the answer. My only original point was I personally thought I'd seen McGregor look more motivated in other fights. If you don't think he has been that's fair enough and your opinion.

I don't think it's that bizarre to use the Alvarez fight really. It's widely regarded as the best he has fought (McGregor.) I appreciate your point he isn't as good as Khabib but surely it's still fair to say McGregor did well in that fight and it's the best he's looked? Why is it bizarre out of interest? Bizarre seems a slightly strong word for it. I know we are dicussing combat sports but surely you don't have to discount every fighter unless it's the best? Surely you can say "He looked pretty good against that guy" equally we're talking about a UFC LW champion so Alvarez isn't a bum, he's still a very good fighter. How do you rank people like DC at LHW? Poirier? Gaejthe? Have they never put on a masterclass or a great performance? Cos they have never beat the best of the best in their division either. What about McGregor vs. Aldo? Aldo was the best at the time and arguably the best FW of all time still, is that allowed to be using?

How did I shift the goalposts? Surely if you want an apology you should apologise for doing the exact same thing albeit changing the name??? Whilst I said it first (again just trying to have a bit of a laugh) if you are that offended by something to want an apology you don't tend to come back with the same comeback, but if you are really offended by being compared to Alan Partridge and Russell Brand then I'm very sorry.
 
Oggmonster said:
Sorry I don't know what you mean by the 2nd and first statements? I haven taken everything you said on board. Again I'm not disputing who is the better fighter out of Conor and Khabib as they've fought and we know the answer. My only original point was I personally thought I'd seen McGregor look more motivated in other fights. If you don't think he has been that's fair enough and your opinion.

I don't think it's that bizarre to use the Alvarez fight really. It's widely regarded as the best he has fought (McGregor.) I appreciate your point he isn't as good as Khabib but surely it's still fair to say McGregor did well in that fight and it's the best he's looked? Why is it bizarre out of interest? Bizarre seems a slightly strong word for it. I know we are dicussing combat sports but surely you don't have to discount every fighter unless it's the best? Surely you can say "He looked pretty good against that guy" equally we're talking about a UFC LW champion so Alvarez isn't a bum, he's still a very good fighter. How do you rank people like DC at LHW? Poirier? Gaejthe? Have they never put on a masterclass or a great performance? Cos they have never beat the best of the best in their division either. What about McGregor vs. Aldo? Aldo was the best at the time and arguably the best FW of all time still, is that allowed to be using?

How did I shift the goalposts? Surely if you want an apology you should apologise for doing the exact same thing albeit changing the name??? Whilst I said it first (again just trying to have a bit of a laugh) if you are that offended by something to want an apology you don't tend to come back with the same comeback, but if you are really offended by being compared to Alan Partridge and Russell Brand then I'm very sorry.
Click to expand...

You're confused. I didn't accuse you of being another poster. I don't know who you are. You accused me of being one, without a shred of evidence. And then started deflecting when I corrected you.

I also don't know who Russel Brand is but you mentioned in another post that he uses vocabulary that you have trouble assimilating and it makes you feel as if he does it to show off his intellectual superiority. I'd say that doesn't reflect well on your intelligence.

In any case, I have no clue why you went on another tangential block of text about DC and other fighters and accused me of "dismissing fighters". That has no relevance to the topic on hand.

You keep repeating yourself and harping on about how good Conor looked against Alvarez and in your mind, that constitutes proof that he looked more motivated than he was against Khabib. I pointed out (and im at the risk of repeating myself for the 5th time) that it's expected that Conor would look better against Alvarez than against Khabib because the latter is a better fighter and wouldn't allow Conor to look good. That isn't "proof" that he was more motivated against Alvarez.

This isn't even complicated. I'm surprised we're going over the same simple point for a 5th time. It doesn't mean that I think Alvarez is a scrub. It's just a direct comparison to Khabib. And there is an enormous gulf in class between the upper echelon fighters like Khabib, and Alvarez.
 
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Ladron de redcafe said:
Not a clue what you're on about but I didn't accuse you of being another poster. You accused me of being one, without a shred of evidence. And then started deflecting when I corrected you.

I also don't know who Russel Brand is but you mentioned in another post that he uses vocabulary that you have trouble assimilating and it makes you feel as if he does it to show off his intellectual superiority.

In any case, I have no clue why you went on another tangential block of text about DC and other fighters and accused me of "dismissing fighters". That has no relevance to the topic on hand.

You keep repeating yourself and harping on about how good Conor looked against Alvarez and in your mind, that constitutes proof that he looked more motivated than he was against Khabib. I pointed out (and im at the risk of repeating myself for the 5th time) that it's expected that Conor would look better against Alvarez than against Khabib because the latter is a better fighter and wouldn't allow Conor to look good. That isn't "proof" that he was more motivated against Alvarez.

This isn't even complicated. I'm surprised I have to repeat it as many times as I do. It doesn't mean that I think Alvarez is a scrub. It's just a direct comparison to Khabib. And there is an enormous gulf in class between the upper echelon fighters like Khabib, and Alvarez.
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: That sentence alone is peak Brand, you've definitely seen him.

Re the DC stuff. If, in your opinion, you can discount Conor vs. Alvarez cos Alvarez isn't as good as Khabib (he's not) and that it wasn't a masterclass cos it wasn't Khabib then do we discount other fighters "great" performances against fighters who may not be that level is my point. I.e DC lost twice to Jones who is the best ever at LHW (similar to Khabib at LW) so does that mean DC has never put on a masterclass or can not be praised as such cos he never beat the best. So for example after Dc easily beat Rumble, a very good fighter, that shouldn't be classed as a great performance cos of his result vs. Jones?

Who made the direct comparison though except you? It's possible to be motivated against a lesser opponent and for Khabib to be better than Alvarez as well. Why do the 2 things have to be tied together? Why can McGregor not be more motivated against Alvarez and also Khabib just beat him easily? He always said it was his dream to be a 2 weight champion in the UFC, the Alvarez fight was the chance to do that so maybe that therefore increased his motivation levels and focus? Who knows maybe he thought he didn't stand a chance vs. Khabib so wasn't as motivated in that regard. I know it's not complicated, it's also not that complicated to think just cos Alvarez isn't as good as Khabib he wouldn't be more motivated for that fight surely? Like I have said it was always his goal and at that moment in time with the lesser fighter his goal was right in front of him. With regards to the Khabib fight he had seemingly already achieved everything he wanted to and thus it could of had an effect on his motivation levels. See previous quote by Marvin Hagler.
 
Oggmonster said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: That sentence alone is peak Brand, you've definitely seen him.

Re the DC stuff. If, in your opinion, you can discount Conor vs. Alvarez cos Alvarez isn't as good as Khabib (he's not) and that it wasn't a masterclass cos it wasn't Khabib then do we discount other fighters "great" performances against fighters who may not be that level is my point. I.e DC lost twice to Jones who is the best ever at LHW (similar to Khabib at LW) so does that mean DC has never put on a masterclass or can not be praised as such cos he never beat the best. So for example after Dc easily beat Rumble, a very good fighter, that shouldn't be classed as a great performance cos of his result vs. Jones?

Who made the direct comparison though except you? It's possible to be motivated against a lesser opponent and for Khabib to be better than Alvarez as well. Why do the 2 things have to be tied together? Why can McGregor not be more motivated against Alvarez and also Khabib just beat him easily? He always said it was his dream to be a 2 weight champion in the UFC, the Alvarez fight was the chance to do that so maybe that therefore increased his motivation levels and focus? Who knows maybe he thought he didn't stand a chance vs. Khabib so wasn't as motivated in that regard. I know it's not complicated, it's also not that complicated to think just cos Alvarez isn't as good as Khabib he wouldn't be more motivated for that fight surely? Like I have said it was always his goal and at that moment in time with the lesser fighter his goal was right in front of him. With regards to the Khabib fight he had seemingly already achieved everything he wanted to and thus it could of had an effect on his motivation levels. See previous quote by Marvin Hagler.
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Typing up a litany of emojis doesn't exactly lend credence to anything you say. You sound hysterical. And since you have problems assimilating what I'm saying, I'll gladly dumb it down.

You then typed out two paragraphs, repeating what you said the previous post. This isn't rocket science. Nobody is dismissing fighters or performances. What I said was that it isn't logical to claim that Conor looked better against Alvarez than he did against the much better fighter Khabib, and use that as "proof" that Conor was lying when he said he was as motivated that he'd ever been before the Khabib fight.
 
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He didn't accuse you of being sammsky he just said your defensiveness reminded him of him.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
@sammsky
Has he/she been banned? Is so, then it's an insinuation that I'm that poster registering under a new account. And as I said, the mods should check everyone's IPs.

When I pointed that I wasn't this other poster (didn't know to whom he was referring), he turned mute.
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sammsky is banned yes. I very much doubt he's insinuating that you're him, you're just being incredibly paranoid about a throwaway remark. Which was a character trait of sammsky's funnily enough.
 
Welsh Wonder said:
sammsky is banned yes. I very much doubt he's insinuating that you're him, you're just being incredibly paranoid about a throwaway remark. Which was a character trait of sammsky's funnily enough.
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I don't think clarifying that I'm not a banned poster is being paranoid. I think randomly accusing those who disagree with you of being banned posters is puerile, though.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
Typing up a litany of emojis doesn't exactly lend credence to anything you say. And since you have problems assimilating what I'm saying, I'll gladly dumb it down.

You then typed out two paragraphs, repeating what you said the previous post. This isn't rocket science. Nobody is dismissing fighters or performances. What I said was that it isn't logical to claim that Conor looked better against Alvarez than he did against the much better fighter Khabib، and use that as "proof" that Conor was lying when he said he was as motivated that he'd ever been before the Khabib fight.
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Cheers for dumbing it down mate, left my thesaurus in the office.

I mean you keep going back to the amount of paragraphs as if I've got a word count (and you're doing the exact same thing yourself.) But it is logical isn't it? You've selected certain parts to make it seem illogical. My point is simple

Conor vs. Alvarez - his chance to become a 2 weight champion that was always his goal. That goal is literally right in front of him, at the time it's the biggest fight of his career. I find it perfectly acceptable to think he was probably the most motivated he has ever been for any fight then. Equally he looked good in that fight. I am aware he is not the level of Khabib, I am aware he will look better vs. a worse opponent. But equally I personally think it's fair to think he was probably really motivated for that fight, and I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that it was the most motivated he has been for any fight. The reason I think this is because like anyone if you've chased a goal all your life ultimately when you come that close to achieving it you are really focused (and motivated) to do what is needed to do to get you over the finish line.

Conor vs. Khabib - He'd become a 2 weight champion, he'd rumoured to of just made $100million from the Mayweather fight and he had other stuff like that whiskey, clothing lines etc. He had seemingly gone off the rails somewhat with various allegations of his personal life, there was videos of him flying around partying all the time, there was the punching of the old man. Something did seem off with him. Equally in the press conference, whilst he has always been a bit of a dick, he seemed to be different in that press conference. After the fight various people, and I admit they are from his camp, said that camp was completely different. Maybe they are excuses but I'm not using it personally as an excuse as to why he lost. He lost cos Khabib is better. I'm merely pointing out he just didn't seem as motivated. Could I be wrong? 100% cos I don't have any inside information or know anyone from that team but it could also be true. I think he was motivated for the Khabib fight, I think he wanted to be the best in the world and he would of been if he won that, I also think it's possible that because of outside distractions he just wasn't as motivated as he previously has been.

I think the best thing to happen to him in terms of motivation was losing to Khabib cos it was hugely embarrassing and also turned a lot of people against him, especially after the infamous Instagram post where he gave excuses about the fight itself. He'll always have his fans cos he's developed a weird cult but I think people who were on the fence about him got a bit bored in the build up to the fight (especially the racist undertones) and also with him after it. I personally think that the likes of Kavanagh and Roddy seem like decent people though and there was some idea of truth in what they were suggesting. I think it was Kavanagh who went on Helwani's podcast after and was pretty open about his tohughts on it...whilst not throwing Conor under the bus he was pretty scathing of the whole thing.

And that is just how I feel about it, if you feel different then that is fair enough.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
I don't think clarifying that I'm not a banned poster is being paranoid. I think randomly accusing those who disagree with you of being banned posters is puerile, though.
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He didn't accuse you of anything though, he made a small remark that your defensive attitude toward Khabib reminded him of another poster who displayed that same attitude. Anyway I'm out, I'd rather read the same arguments being made over and over again than be actively involved in it.
 
Oggmonster said:
Cheers for dumbing it down mate, left my thesaurus in the office.

I mean you keep going back to the amount of paragraphs as if I've got a word count (and you're doing the exact same thing yourself.) But it is logical isn't it? You've selected certain parts to make it seem illogical. My point is simple

Conor vs. Alvarez - his chance to become a 2 weight champion that was always his goal. That goal is literally right in front of him, at the time it's the biggest fight of his career. I find it perfectly acceptable to think he was probably the most motivated he has ever been for any fight then. Equally he looked good in that fight. I am aware he is not the level of Khabib, I am aware he will look better vs. a worse opponent. But equally I personally think it's fair to think he was probably really motivated for that fight, and I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that it was the most motivated he has been for any fight. The reason I think this is because like anyone if you've chased a goal all your life ultimately when you come that close to achieving it you are really focused (and motivated) to do what is needed to do to get you over the finish line.

Conor vs. Khabib - He'd become a 2 weight champion, he'd rumoured to of just made $100million from the Mayweather fight and he had other stuff like that whiskey, clothing lines etc. He had seemingly gone off the rails somewhat with various allegations of his personal life, there was videos of him flying around partying all the time, there was the punching of the old man. Something did seem off with him. Equally in the press conference, whilst he has always been a bit of a dick, he seemed to be different in that press conference. After the fight various people, and I admit they are from his camp, said that camp was completely different. Maybe they are excuses but I'm not using it personally as an excuse as to why he lost. He lost cos Khabib is better. I'm merely pointing out he just didn't seem as motivated. Could I be wrong? 100% cos I don't have any inside information or know anyone from that team but it could also be true. I think he was motivated for the Khabib fight, I think he wanted to be the best in the world and he would of been if he won that, I also think it's possible that because of outside distractions he just wasn't as motivated as he previously has been.

I think the best thing to happen to him in terms of motivation was losing to Khabib cos it was hugely embarrassing and also turned a lot of people against him, especially after the infamous Instagram post where he gave excuses about the fight itself. He'll always have his fans cos he's developed a weird cult but I think people who were on the fence about him got a bit bored in the build up to the fight (especially the racist undertones) and also with him after it. I personally think that the likes of Kavanagh and Roddy seem like decent people though and there was some idea of truth in what they were suggesting. I think it was Kavanagh who went on Helwani's podcast after and was pretty open about his tohughts on it...whilst not throwing Conor under the bus he was pretty scathing of the whole thing.

And that is just how I feel about it, if you feel different then that is fair enough.
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You've added nothing new here. It's all conjecture.

Another two blocks of text to say why you feel Conor was more motivated against Alvarez than he was against Khabib (despite Conor saying otherwise himself) isn't proof.

The only facts of the matter is that:

1- Conor and his camp say he was training harder than he had done since his early years (that includes the Alvarez fight) and that he was as motivated as he had ever been.
2-Conor loses badly
3- Conor trots out excuses to save face and directly contradicts his earlier statements (because he had a vested interest in doing so)

The question is whether it's more likely that his contradictory statements were valid or whether they were false. You had to provide a premise that consolidates your position. Instead, you repeatedly type out long "I felt he looked better against the other fella" blocks of text.

We're getting nowhere. You're free to believe the post-match statements if that's what you insist is true.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
You've added nothing new here. It's all conjecture.

Another two blocks of text to say why you feel Conor was more motivated against Alvarez than he was against Khabib (despite Conor saying otherwise himself) isn't proof.

The only facts of the matter is that:

1- Conor and his camp say he was training harder than he had done since his early years (that includes the Alvarez fight) and that he was as motivated as he had ever been.
2-Conor loses badly
3- Conor trots out excuses to save face and directly contradicts his earlier statements (because he had a vested interest in doing so)

The question is whether it's more likely that his contradictory statements were valid or whether they were false. You had to provide a premise that consolidates your position. Instead, you repeatedly type out long "I felt he looked better against the other fella" blocks of text.

We're getting nowhere. You're free to believe the post-match statements if that's what you insist is true.
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I didn't though...cos it's a conversation not a court of law. No one is on trial.

The reality is simple, no one knows the truth whether he is motivated or not so we're both speculating. I feel I broke my opinion down alright, if you don't agree that's fair enough it was no impact on anyones life really.
 
Oggmonster said:
I didn't though...cos it's a conversation not a court of law. No one is on trial.

The reality is simple, no one knows the truth whether he is motivated or not so we're both speculating. I feel I broke my opinion down alright, if you don't agree that's fair enough it was no impact on anyones life really.
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You feel that way. I don't necessarily agree which is why I pointed out what I perceive as flawed reasoning. And you probably feel the same about the way I argued my point. Which is normal because that's how people find themsleves on the opposite sides of a discussion.

As you say, everyone is entitled to their opinion and you're certainly entitled to yours and noone can invalidate it. No harm. No foul.
 
Whatever about physically, McGregor clearly wasn't in top shape mentally for the Khabib fight. Look no further than the the state of him at the press conference.
 
I had sammsky on ignore because he was painful and it’s weird seeing someone that pathetically hung up on a celebrity they don’t know. Was he banned for anything in particular? Or just for being useless?
 
Charlie Foley said:
I had sammsky on ignore because he was painful and it’s weird seeing someone that pathetically hung up on a celebrity they don’t know. Was he banned for anything in particular? Or just for being useless?
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Some mod made a promise to his mother that he'd ban sammsky.
 
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