Didn’t we play Rafael and Park in midfield once? I think even they will do better than these two.
The McFred midfield duo
- Thread starter kouroux
- Start date
Is the there a reliable stat out there for how many times fred has given the ball away/kicked it out of play this season?
Pity ole doesn't
How did McFred become undroppable in the first place? They never conquered the PL. Would either come anywhere near the squads of City, Chelsea or Liverpool? Leicester City? Everton? Even Arsenal?
Fukking mind-boggling that Ole persists with them. Absent injury or a nothing match, they’re nailed on starters, regardless of how poorly they perform.
Fukking mind-boggling that Ole persists with them. Absent injury or a nothing match, they’re nailed on starters, regardless of how poorly they perform.
Probably because he saw it work against City last couple of seasons at Etihad and think it will be like that most of the time, if they aren't broken up soon then no way are we ever going to get better in the middle of the park.
I might be a little bit over the top.. we do have Newcastle and Norwich in our league
But honestly, we cannot compete with our actual competitors for winning titles with our midfield. Not a chance. And a change of manager will NOT change that fact, so in my opinion changing manangers now is pointless.They became undroppable due to the way Pogba and Bruno play and Maguires lack of pace. Once Varane came in we were promised this would change but Ole is still cacking himself regardless. He just doesn’t know how to create a properly functioning midfield and seemingly sees no use for it other than to break up play and get the ball forward as quickly as possible, rather than use it to build up play or screen the defence.
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They are a mid table type pairing at best.
I've never liked the duo, and neither of them are really that good enough, yeah Scott can surprise us sometimes but I don't rate Fred, plus I hate the two man pivot, it's just so depressing "oh it will protect the defence" complete bulls**t! Did it protect the defence last season? No. This season? Still No, it simply doesn't work with our personnel. I would like to see a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3.
McGinn badly outplayed them, looked like he'd walk into our team
What's sad about our CMs (+AWB) is that all the on the ball stuff is such an effort for them. It's like those old school CBs who have to be really careful about their work on the ball and hence come across as mechanical. These three are like that. Manipulating the ball in close quarters and simple things like passing is like a chore for them rather than coming naturally. Which hampers the speed at which we can pop the ball along as players need time to be extra careful otherwise they'll feck it up.
At least Fred has a go and tries to stimulate an attack, the white ghost that McTom has become seems immune from criticism while laying into the most energetic midfielder we have. Gets away from the point that Pogba is a luxury against mid table tackling midfielders, and the lack of a strong DM is so obvious it’s frightening, how that was not seen as a priority by either the manager or the recruitment gurus seems almost sackable.
The CAF can be a bit all knowing, but when it’s that obvious and the manager and staff can’t develop tactics to cover the weaknesses is shameful. Maybe the Glazers weren’t prepared to release more funds, there has to be a reason other than , fornicate elsewhere we know what we’re doing.
The CAF can be a bit all knowing, but when it’s that obvious and the manager and staff can’t develop tactics to cover the weaknesses is shameful. Maybe the Glazers weren’t prepared to release more funds, there has to be a reason other than , fornicate elsewhere we know what we’re doing.
That's because Fred is actually fairly gifted but uses his abilities (barring hassling/harrying) very poorly whereas Mctominay genuinely doesn't have the talent. Both need upgrading but Mctominay should really be a Phil Neville type who is used an option. That a player of his abilities starts in in the heart of midfield is astonishing.
Matic and Donny should start every league game. Matic would have a weeks rest between games. As shocking as Donny is, hed still be better than the shite we have to watch right now.
Fred maybe better off the ball but surely VDB can compensate that when we have the ball. Infact even Hannibal might provide us more. Fred touch and pass creates panic and it seems like his poor form is not over yet. Surely we can replace him at this moment and not miss him?
I think thats a bit harsh on mctominay. He has proven in a couple of matches that hes got the talent and even dribbling on his game, also a good shot from outside the box. Not a world beater by any means and i think the problem is fred and mct don't compliment very well and should be using only one of them at a time. Still for me should be one of either or matic
McT can be a compliment or a part of the rotation but he should not start every game. He has much better drive and physicality then Fred. There is nothing which bars McT from being effective pairing with DVB. I love Ole but he is starting to show that he really can’t take us to the next level. His stubbornness to persist with his favourites like Fred will lead to his undoing.
It isn't just that they don't compliment each other but their individual level too. There's no chance Mctominay would start for any of our rivals. Yes he can sometimes produce a bit of skill in attack or on the ball. But in general the bloke has very little quality on the ball and his passing is CB like.
Only way they ever get split up under Ole is injury/suspension to either
McTominay is the kind of managerial dream a Sam Allardyce or Gary Megson would covet or wax lyrical about. 'Y'see, he gets stuck in does Scott and he leaves nowt out there on t' pitch. Top, top player he is. Obviously he ain't into none of the fancy stuff like passing the ball and keeping possession, but we're pleased out how he's lumping it up to big Kev.'
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Defensive ability to hold the midfield by themselves is only with Matic.
That's why Ole plays Mctominay and Fred as its our most physically Defensive midfield but it requires 2 midfielders.
That however ends up with less creativity and attacking ability.
Matic = more creative ability paired next to him
McFred = more stability
That's why Ole chooses Mcfred.
It's really not that complicated. Choosing Mctominay and Pogba as a midfield partnership and watching Aston Villa running through the lack of defensive ability in those two - when they even managed to do it at times when Fred was playing and intercepting the ball once in a while would just lead in to - ole can't coach.
So he continues to pick Mcfred or Matic. Its not like the fans understand that we have a midfield weakness and therefore we are allowed to play with a weakness. No we have to win every game and have to win the league - so we need to have some sort of midfield defensive stability.
So ultimately it is Mcfred or Matic until we buy a new CDM. We will get one in January anyway. Doubt any manager can wait until the summer; that's just suicidal.
That's why Ole plays Mctominay and Fred as its our most physically Defensive midfield but it requires 2 midfielders.
That however ends up with less creativity and attacking ability.
Matic = more creative ability paired next to him
McFred = more stability
That's why Ole chooses Mcfred.
It's really not that complicated. Choosing Mctominay and Pogba as a midfield partnership and watching Aston Villa running through the lack of defensive ability in those two - when they even managed to do it at times when Fred was playing and intercepting the ball once in a while would just lead in to - ole can't coach.
So he continues to pick Mcfred or Matic. Its not like the fans understand that we have a midfield weakness and therefore we are allowed to play with a weakness. No we have to win every game and have to win the league - so we need to have some sort of midfield defensive stability.
So ultimately it is Mcfred or Matic until we buy a new CDM. We will get one in January anyway. Doubt any manager can wait until the summer; that's just suicidal.
With Varane around the coaching staff simply need to understand. 2 defensive minded midfielders are no longer needed in the starting XI.
We should strictly be having one of them alongside Pogba or DVB. That is the only time we will get what we should from our midfield and our attack. Without a play maker deep and one higher up we will not get out of this squad it's full potential. For we will just keep sacrificing creativity or attacking prowess by insisting on it.
I will forever insist we do not need to sogn a new dm to start it now. Our coaching staff simply has rather to start trusting Varane to partner with our other cbs without needing double protection.
We should strictly be having one of them alongside Pogba or DVB. That is the only time we will get what we should from our midfield and our attack. Without a play maker deep and one higher up we will not get out of this squad it's full potential. For we will just keep sacrificing creativity or attacking prowess by insisting on it.
I will forever insist we do not need to sogn a new dm to start it now. Our coaching staff simply has rather to start trusting Varane to partner with our other cbs without needing double protection.
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And that's the thing, we will never succeed with them long term. What's the point in a RB who does half the game?
I'd rather have VDB than McFred in midfield. We just need to figure out who to partner VDB. Matic is a good one, but he can't play every game.
I'd rather have 46-year old Scholes and 50-yearold Keano than these two.But we have to accept the fact that they will always be starters, when fit.
Agree but its pretty clear Ole is not brave enough to try that for a run of games especially against weaker sides.
1 tackle yesterday shows he really didn't stuck in. If McT doesn't provide what he is supposedly best at, what's his point ?
I think the real defensive midfielder is Matic, but he moves slower than McFred.
That's really poor but not surprising. We just don't dominate other teams in midfield
The need for two defensive minded midfielders has nothing to do with our centre halves, and everything to do with how our front four is set up defensively.
I agree we should utilise Pogba or Van de Beek in midfield but we should also have our attacking band of three behind the striker defend more conventionally to facilitate that.
And here I was thinking that with the addition of Varane, we'd be less needy of 2 sitters in midfield and can play Pogba there with any of the other midfielders.
One of the few times I agree with what you say
The problem I have with these two is they do not do any one thing well, that is the whole reason we play a double pivot. Neither shields the back four well tactically (ie Carrick) or phjysically (ie Gattuso). We therefore can not play a single pivot with either one of these two. Also neither plays the ball forward out of the back well. Now McT does dribble the ball well and they both have energy but against good teams "having energy" isn't enough. Your teasm needs to play tactically and these two are limited both offensively and defensively which is why we seem so disjointed when they are on the field.
The CMs connect all the threads of the team and make a team tick. I am not scouring Europe or the rest of the world so I can not tell you who would solve this issue but we definitely need this solved if we are going to compete for the trophies we want.
The CMs connect all the threads of the team and make a team tick. I am not scouring Europe or the rest of the world so I can not tell you who would solve this issue but we definitely need this solved if we are going to compete for the trophies we want.
Can't wait to get rid of these two, in the same way I couldn't wait to get rid of Lindelof/Harry partnership. We look so much better defensively.......hmmmmm.
Yeah it's gotten to the point where both are not suited to our style of play anymore. McTominay hides too much and Fred is bordering on being useless.
Van de Beek or Pogba need to come back to the pivot, or we need a formation change.
Van de Beek or Pogba need to come back to the pivot, or we need a formation change.
I think matic has been better than both this season. I’d be tempted to play Matic-Pogba or Matic-VDB for the time being.,
Crazy idea, how about trusting van Der beek with an actual run in the side of about 10+ matches, christ ole gave Pereira and fred more trust and consistent runs in the first 11 despite their erratic form, it just goes to show how much of lie it is that ole wants to play exciting attacking football, he only knows one way of playing reactionary defensive counter attack football suited to underdog/inferior sides.
Thank you, Chief. I said the exact same thing yesterday: with Varane and Maguire, both top class centre halves, there is absolutely no need for us to play with a double pivot in the majority of our games.
VDB is a million miles better than Fred and Mctominay. I can’t believe we play either of them on a regular basis and expect to do anything!
One is starting for Brazil in midfield the other can’t get into Scotland’s and is asked to play as a CB. Fred had his share of bad performance but he’s clearly capable of working in the functioning midfield trio, while McT has one standout quality which is hiding from the ball that I can give him.