I posted a bit earlier there is a clear view of his staff and it doesn't match Saruman's so from that he has to be unless they ignore it.
Can't see them fudging something like that though.
Television The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power
- Thread starter DWelbz19
- Start date
Can't see them fudging something like that though.
They replaced the wrong writers.
Oh. Personally, I don’t really find this one compelling. I’m not overly familiar with staff lore but they’re not completely irreplaceable — Gandalf got a new one in the books and in these series that’s basically his seasonal arc.
It wouldn’t make much sense to depict Saruman with his LotR stuff that had its top designed to match Orthanc when it probably wasn’t even built yet (and Saruman had no relation to it). Many thousands of years had past since then — maybe he found a new staff or drastically modified his current one.
Plus it would be (if his staff was the same as in the movies) a concrete proof of this wizard being Saruman from his very first appearance and they, however prone to fan service moments, wanted to milk the supposed mystery for as long as they could — just like they did with Sauron and Gandalf, both of whom ended up being exactly the characters that everyone thought that they were. Put it like that — it doesn’t make sense to create a mysterious character if the reveal doesn’t pay off… and general audience that they target is the one who only watched the movies and maybe read LotR. To reveal this big mystery only for him to end up as someone unknown to the wide population wouldn’t be like them.
Edit: given the tendency of this show to recreate scenes from the LotR movies and books and the importance of staff in Gandalf’s story this season I wouldn’t be surprised if Gandalf destroys Saruman’s current staff in the inevitable showdown next season. Although how he would get back to the good side of Gandalf (in order to turn bad again) is an interesting question, but this wouldn’t be the first time they’ve butchered a great character, would it?
You are right I was just thinking along the lines of them keeping lore intact. As we know so far that's not certain in this show.
They could pull a Marvel and just come up with some alternate universe bullshit. Owen Wilson steps out of a TVA portal:
"Hey, wow, Saruman, right? Big fan of the whole white wizard thing you’ve got going on here. Very nice. Uh, listen, so I don’t want to, you know, disrupt your whole evil overlord vibe or anything, but—yeah—there’s been a bit of a mix-up in the timelines. Turns out, you're not supposed to be this Saruman in this timeline. Yeah, I know, it’s a lot to take in. But don’t worry, we’re just gonna shuffle you over to a different branch of reality. I mean, you're still the same powerful, menacing guy, just... in a different place. How cool is that?"
He's not Saruman, he's just playing the exact same role in the story as Saruman does in LotR. Payne and McKay are only particularly interested in recycling tropes (and not even just from LotR) for easy nostalgia and screen-pointing, they were JJ Abrams acolytes for a reason.
This is where I am with it. Best episode yet and as good a finale as we could've expected, with some fantastic visuals and suitably epic moments.
Let the two-year wait begin...
At least we have The War of the Rohirrim to look forward to in December.
Also - don't forget that PJ and his folks are working on a script for a series of two prequel movies. Ian McKellen said he would have a script in hand in the new year. I hope Ian makes it - he still looks pretty good for his age and is still very peppy - but last I saw him being interviewed he also looked like he suddenly aged another 10 years. Guess they could do it like Christopher Lee and have him film some scenes remotely with the use of SFX.
I keep forgetting about the prequel movies. Using Sir Ian in his late 80s feels like a major stretch. There's probably more chance of them using the RoP actor.
Dark wizard will most likely be Alatar or his mate. Ar Pharazon will probably become the Witch King after getting stuffed approaching Valinor - he's already well on his way.
Other than the massive disappointment of Galadriel I've quite enjoyed the series so far. Don't really care about its fidelity to lore and it's fun enough. Few too many Padmes and platitudes but I enjoyed Adar and Sauron.
Bombadil as a wizard trainer pissed me off a bit. Lacked the unimpeachable wonder of the guy in my imagination. I did like the duet though. Aslo, Entwife!
Other than the massive disappointment of Galadriel I've quite enjoyed the series so far. Don't really care about its fidelity to lore and it's fun enough. Few too many Padmes and platitudes but I enjoyed Adar and Sauron.
Bombadil as a wizard trainer pissed me off a bit. Lacked the unimpeachable wonder of the guy in my imagination. I did like the duet though. Aslo, Entwife!
Last edited:
No way. Ar Pharazon was still alive at the end of the Silmarillion even by the forth age, he was kept alive along with his entire army by Eru, buried, undisturbed under the mountain so that when the time comes for the final battle with Morgoth, they will be there, ready.
Staff's are also not important in lore.
"Wizards" don't exist. The 5 Istar are Maiar, the only reason they carry staffs is symbolism for the men and elves they are guiding. Only men perceive them to be "Wizards" and the Istar kinda just rolled with it.
So far long beardy staff man is known as "dark wizard". He's living in Rhun. Seems a small enough leap to guess he's one of the Istar that Tolkien sent east. Doesn't have to be, but seems reasonable.
I don't really care that the lore says Eru buried Ar and his mates till the Dagor whotsit. The folk writing the show are playing fast and loose with the books and trying to squeeze everything into (they hope) five seasons. Sauron's got 9 rings to flog and there's a dearth of evil men sufficiently set up to receive them. He's already corrupted Numenor via palantir so I guess they're skipping the invasion of Mordor and going straight to him attacking the Valar (if they even decide to include that). From the perspective of the show it makes sense to give him a ring.
Editing a video now and he says that there were 5 of us. And they're in the east. Pretty much confirmed it for me.
He actually said he wants to do it and that they ve already spoken with him. Perhaps a good blend though would be to use the RoP actor for most and Sir Ian for scenes when the timeline jumps ahead.
How so? There were always five of them and Saruman says that in LotR too (in fact, I don’t remember the exact wording but it wouldn’t surprise me if they had stolen it too). And Saruman spent a lot of time in Rhûn alongside the Blue Wizards, the difference is that he returned to the West afterwards and smurfs didn’t.
I’ve been meaning to start this but the reviews have been mixed. Is this worth watching? I’ve seen all of the LOTR films.
If you are like me who has never read the books and only seen the films AND wants to see how Sauron actually was, definitely 100% yes.
Thanks.
Agree with that, they’ve really given meat to who Sauron was, not just some flaming eye on top of a building.
You know what? Fair. It's just how I interpreted it.
Eh, been much better this season, but the reveal of The Stranger was my I-need-to-stop-watching-this moment. There's more than enough going on with the elves, Numenor and the dwarves to not need this thread at all. In fact, it would be so much better without it. The Numenor stuff is so rushed and poorly done, it looks like a village.
Thought this was one of the better scenes in the season.
Okay, so I just watched season 2 and here is my take.
Lore is handled better, but there are still major issues.
1. Tom Bombadil, they butchered the character. Physically he looks the part, but the actor can't even properly sing. Tom Bombadil is a jolly fella and this one seems dead pan serious. He is spouting wisdoms left right and centre and guiding Gandalf about Sauron, Dark Wizard etc. In fact Tom wouln't care about all that. He cares about his corner of the world.
2. This leads me to the second point, the whole Gandalf and hobbits subplot is so contrived and unnecessary. The Gandalf, the wisest of maiar, suffering from amnesia and acting like a... well he seems a bit slow. Not to mention the role of Istari wasn't to directly oppose Sauron and they arrived in third age.
3. Balrog does not appear until well into third age. And also Dwarves proved very resistant to influence of the rings, which is why Sauron later recovered them mostly through war.
However the biggest issues I have is generally with plot, and world building.
The world seems very small. Legions of orcs travel to eregion quicker than it takes five elves. Also nobody notices them. The army of that size with siege engines will hardly move unseen. What do they eat, if they pillage then there would be survivors and word would spread. This way it just feels (despite map animation) they just teleported.
Likewise for Elrond who then quickly goes to Lindon than to Khazad dum, then eregion.
The original movies managed to nicely depict the vastness of the world and the time it takes to travel. While the show treats the distances as if they only exist when it suits them.
Oh and trebuchets razing mountain, enough to dam the whole river. OMFG.
The writers just too often decide for the rule of cool (or what they think it is), rather than what makes sense.
Lore is handled better, but there are still major issues.
1. Tom Bombadil, they butchered the character. Physically he looks the part, but the actor can't even properly sing. Tom Bombadil is a jolly fella and this one seems dead pan serious. He is spouting wisdoms left right and centre and guiding Gandalf about Sauron, Dark Wizard etc. In fact Tom wouln't care about all that. He cares about his corner of the world.
2. This leads me to the second point, the whole Gandalf and hobbits subplot is so contrived and unnecessary. The Gandalf, the wisest of maiar, suffering from amnesia and acting like a... well he seems a bit slow. Not to mention the role of Istari wasn't to directly oppose Sauron and they arrived in third age.
3. Balrog does not appear until well into third age. And also Dwarves proved very resistant to influence of the rings, which is why Sauron later recovered them mostly through war.
However the biggest issues I have is generally with plot, and world building.
The world seems very small. Legions of orcs travel to eregion quicker than it takes five elves. Also nobody notices them. The army of that size with siege engines will hardly move unseen. What do they eat, if they pillage then there would be survivors and word would spread. This way it just feels (despite map animation) they just teleported.
Likewise for Elrond who then quickly goes to Lindon than to Khazad dum, then eregion.
The original movies managed to nicely depict the vastness of the world and the time it takes to travel. While the show treats the distances as if they only exist when it suits them.
Oh and trebuchets razing mountain, enough to dam the whole river. OMFG.
The writers just too often decide for the rule of cool (or what they think it is), rather than what makes sense.
Can highly recommend this for people who havnt read the silmarillion. On Sauron.
Warning: potential spoilers
Warning: potential spoilers
Last edited:
I really liked the second season, much improved.
Watching Annatar/Sauron this season in particular made me wonder how much Marvel's Thanos was intentionally or unintentionally influenced by his character. There appear to be quite a few parallels between them - odd emotion included. Both looking to perfect the world through cruelty and being convinced they are doing everyone a service.
I still don't really get how prologue sauron got so easily twatted.
It was all part of his plan.
In the 1st movie or in the series?
He wanted to briefly look like River Cartwright.
Start of this season.
The crown was forged by Morgoth
Thought the finale was great and an overall much better second season - I really enjoyed it.
Has a prequel in anything been able to actually maintain some tension? Like, oh no character X and Y are totally in danger of death...but I know they're fine for the other films.
Anyway, this show looks really good, but I just can't care as we know what happens.
Anyway, this show looks really good, but I just can't care as we know what happens.
Rogue One and subsequently Andor?
Some excellent interviews on NotR, particularly with Aramayo, who appears to have gone full Tolkien nerd and may even be @AfonsoAlves:
I binged the season over the weekend. Think it was a better way to watch it. I got annoyed by the first couple of episodes after which i just kind of accepted it was dumb and contrived and found it easier to get on board with it and quite enjoy it mostly. Celebrimbor and Sauron scenes were quite strong and stood out. I dont think i'd rate it higher than and a 6 or 7 out of 10 where its fine if your not paying too much attention.
They should cut some storylines really. A lot of fairly redundant, weak stuff going on around the edges of the show. I'm not sure the hobbits and gandalf add anything or are going anywhere. Teasing familiar characters. I dont think they're getting enough screen time or attention from week to week to get invested anyway.
Isuldur and everything related to that area could be cut and the show would be better for it imo. I dont love Numenor but i guess they need to set it up.
They should cut some storylines really. A lot of fairly redundant, weak stuff going on around the edges of the show. I'm not sure the hobbits and gandalf add anything or are going anywhere. Teasing familiar characters. I dont think they're getting enough screen time or attention from week to week to get invested anyway.
Isuldur and everything related to that area could be cut and the show would be better for it imo. I dont love Numenor but i guess they need to set it up.
I watched a review of the season ender by Nerd of the Rings with a theory that Kemen could be the Mouth of Sauron/Ringwraith and it just made me even more disappointed that the show managed to complete maybe 25% of the immersion into the world that it should have.
There should've been theories and excitement about the next season and mostly it's just flat, down to some terrible world building for the most part
There should've been theories and excitement about the next season and mostly it's just flat, down to some terrible world building for the most part
It's been 20+ years since the movies came out (yes, really) and I'm guessing an ever increasing percentage of the population has never as much as open a Tolkien book or might even know his name. You could argue that's sad yes, but it's also a reality in which it doesn't matter as much what Rings of Power puts on. The tie ins with the movies I feel like I more for those of us who are familiar with it - bc the majority of viewers probably doesn't pick up on it.