The leaks against the manager 2023 edition

L1nk said:
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Guys, even though I always thought I had at least “business fluency” in English (if not better), I don’t have a slightest idea of what a “time-served player” might mean. Could any of native speakers please help?
 
Alemar said:
Guys, even though I always thought I had at least “business fluency” in English (if not better), I don’t have a slightest idea of what a “time-served player” might mean. Could any of native speakers please help?
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Players that have been at the club a while essentially. The likes of Rashford and Shaw etc. essentially.

Either way I think it’s bollocks. In my opinion there’s one or two bad apples in the camp that are talking to the press and that’s probably it.
 
Woodzy said:
Players that have been at the club a while essentially. The likes of Rashford and Shaw etc. essentially.
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It cannot be Maguire, McTominay or Bruno (McTominay miraculously gets selected so should be happy, Maguire is on the up himself despite everything, and Bruno the only one who still has decent G/A numbers and is a captain). So if it’s about length of service for the club, then probably Rashford, Lindelof, Shaw and Martial are suspects.
 
Our players have done this under every manager since 2013.

If this club was a parent it would be constantly rewarding the bad behaviour of its children. Burned down the house? Have a cookie!
 
Alemar said:
Guys, even though I always thought I had at least “business fluency” in English (if not better), I don’t have a slightest idea of what a “time-served player” might mean. Could any of native speakers please help?
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I am native English speaker and I am not sure what that means. My best guess is something like "long-tenured", i.e. someone who has been around for a long time.
 
Alemar said:
It cannot be Maguire, McTominay or Bruno (McTominay miraculously gets selected so should be happy, Maguire is on the up himself despite everything, and Bruno the only one who still has decent G/A numbers and is a captain). So if it’s about length of service for the club, then probably Rashford, Lindelof, Shaw and Martial are suspects.
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Rashford has been jogging around all season. I don't know if these are actual leaks or reporters making things up, but my money would be on Rashford and Sancho if it's anyone.

Like I said though, a lot of these "leaks" could be reporters making up "controversies" from whole cloth, as they stand to gain a lot and there's no one to investigate or punish them for it.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
I can also understand some being unhappy with Erik's tactics as he is asking them to play a transition based system they arnt suitable for and refuses to change instead of playing the fast attacking football that the squad is suited to.
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Is it just me or is this twisted?
 
hobbers said:
If we got rid of Sancho, Rashford and Martial, I'm pretty certain these leaks against the manager would stop even if we were sat in the relegation zone.
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ETH should just find some balls. It’s a disgrace to publicly state “Rashford works hard” (it’s an exact quote) after his Newcastle shitshow.
 
It’s definitely not Martial
He can’t be bothered to run on the football field and he doesn’t seem like he is bothered by anything
I’m sure he is just running down his contract and would leave for free at the end of the season
 
Appreciate there’s always nuance but the players are paid to play for the club.

The club appoints and pays a manager to manage them.

If they are undermining the manager, they are undermining the club.

As a fan this really gets my goat. It’s dishonest, disrespectful and likely a breach of contract.

Whoever is doing this needs to go. We need to get on with the rebuild, not go all the way back to square one and take the same problems with us.
 
hobbers said:
Time-served players are Martial and/or Rashford. No doubt about that.

It's not Bruno, Maguire, McTominay, Shaw. I'd be amazed if it was Lindelof or Dalot.

And even if they've fallen out with ETH, it isn't the Real Madrid boys either.


If we got rid of Sancho, Rashford and Martial, I'm pretty certain these leaks against the manager would stop even if we were sat in the relegation zone.
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Same was said about Pogba and lingard, where they false accusations, if we get rid of these 3 players, who will it be next, also how is Sancho leaking anything he's training with the kids
 
hobbers said:
If we got rid of Sancho, Rashford and Martial, I'm pretty certain these leaks against the manager would stop even if we were sat in the relegation zone.
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That’s where I’m at too. I think that these are the rats at the club. You could see their attitude and how hard they work on the field. Three of the highest earners who have disciplinary issues and give zero fecks about the fans and the club.
 
Bastian said:
Again, I don't think ETH is blameless in this whole situation, but I've got a lot of leeway for him given the general shit show the club is.

If you appoint a manager with a playing philosophy that you know does not suit a lot of the current squad you simply have to back him. He's not some pragmatic world beater who can tailor his side according to the demands of the week. Which short-term might get some fans all warm and cozy, but long-term leads us nowhere. He shifted Ronaldo which I think was a pretty major deal, and he didn't show him any disrespect, which could have backfired. Ronnie threw a fit on sleaze tv and that was that. He made a big call too in the summer - and I hold the club responsible for how it was handled - in shift Dave, which we desperately needed to do. He also tried to get rid of Maguire, McTominay and Sancho, the club briefed the press of their availability two times during the summer with a wish list of prices but then did not proceed aggressively enough with it, leaving a relatively new manager with players the club openly wanted to get rid of. Pretty terrible management from the club. Thankfully, two of them actually train well enough but we don't know if they are the ones speaking to cnuts like Luckhurst. Sancho showed his true colours.

I don't recall anyone saying his transfers were shite prior to the League Cup final last season. Our quality was thin and he definitely did a bit of an Ole and ran them into the ground - coupled with the World Cup mid-season disaster, and voila, we had players gassed crossing the finishing line.

OK, so what happens the following summer? The club have an unmitigated disaster in handling the Greenwood situation, leaving us completely exposed chasing a striker and incurring no small amounts of negative press, which sets the tone for the start of the season, having just completed an absolutely mindlessly stupid pre-season - bringing to mind van Gaal's term "commercial club" - which knackered the players. In that pre-season the player who had most people excited was injured. Then we suffer the injury to Shaw and Martinez, absolutely fundamental players to how ETH wants to play out from the back and keep balance to our play. The striker we signed arrived injured. The whole Greenwood thing comes back in the form of Antony being accused of domestic violence and various stories start cropping up like a paedo being in the director's box and a host of new shite surrounds the club. This is all fairly recent, mind.

And another thing. If you appoint a manager to revolutionise the way the team plays, you cannot demand performances and results from the get go. It is a long-term plan. Hence, it's a much slower progression - if at all - if he's having to be pragmatic most of the time. That's where ruthlessness needs to be the line for the manager and the hierarchy. And yet, we've seen ETH come out again and again with his line of "we need to win every match" which I think is the correct mentality internally, but pretty unhelpful added pressure publicly. He's trying to raise the standards, but you can only do so much with a group of entitled mercenaries.

We saw how ill-prepared this whole appointment was when we did not secure targets early and get people out the door early. It was all drawn out and hence massively overpriced and we still carry loads of players that don't fit. And he gets the blame.

A new manager right now will either be some status quo manager who can be pragmatic with the players available or another progressive manager who will suffer the same fate, in my view.

But where I'm at with it with ETH is that I want to see more bravery from him, to be more ruthless and go with players who carry out tactical instructions. It's easy to say from my armchair view, but I saw Mejbri run his socks off for him, Gore too. Garnacho tracks back much much better than Rashford does and that wonder goal will likely help him seal that left wing spot anyway.

I said before that I understood him being desperate to get Rashford going given his goal tally last season, but his out of possession work is just so infuriatingly unacceptable that he has to drop him. And every time he doesn't give them the silk glove treatment we get a new batch of complaints from cnuts like Luckhurst and the other dogs at the press conferences who take more and more liberties. And that's my other criticism, I want him to treat them with the contempt they deserve and show a healthy level of self-respect, not just for himself, but for the club. We all know no one else at the club can do so.

If Ratcliffe's people are in situ prior to middle of January I want him to be backed in getting players out of the door, just to clear the air at the club. Outgoings are more important than incomings, though both are obviously very important. He needs another striker to take the burden of the kid and he needs a defender who can hold a high line, given Varane's horrific fitness record. Anything else is a bonus.
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tjb said:
ETH hasn't proven he's good enough to manage United though. It's all well and good believing that all the players are bad and the club need to give a manager everything, but that mentality is exactly what has brought us here in the first place. Forget philosophy, no other club has these issues moving from one manager to the next in terms of playing philosophies. Good players are good players and every manager wants them. Casemiro, Varane, Mount, Bruno, Rashford, Licha, Shaw is a fantastic core to have and are all players capable of playing for top sides. They've done so internationally. Yet these managers come to United telling us that unless they have the perfect squad, they simply can't play good football.

Last season we had Sabitzer in our team. Bayern managed to play good football with him in a two man midfield. We got him and all of a sudden appeared to be lightweight. What we've been seeing on the pitch for the last ten years has been far more than the players. Unfortunately, their the ones having to go on the pitch and execute plans that aren't working effectively. For ten years, managers haven't been able to create chances consistently or control games. For those ten years, despite having full access to transfer funds, they've signed players who didn't help these issues. For ten years we've been telling managers that they'll get as much power and support as possible with a plan in mind for them to be our next great manager. For ten years they've consistently failed to show they can even get the different team of players to play in anyway resembling attacking football. All of them except Moyes have had massive departures matched with lots of money spent on signings. They've all received the funds to have a decent team, yet have still turned back and the blame has been placed on their players, some of whom are their own signings. We have a squad of 20 + players, no team would ever sell their entire squad, its not basketball. Yet we've done more than most in letting players go, even at a financial cost to the club. Yet because Shaw, Lindelof, Martial, Bruno, Rashford and Maguire are still at the club, it's the players again. Yet Shaw has been injured and hasn't been identified as a complainant, Bruno has always worked hard, Maguire has been a brilliant professional through the travails of the last 2 seasons and Lindelof despite his lack of quality has always been well mannered ( even captaining Sweden.

Casemiro and Varane are clearly dissatisfied and both have been considered consummate professionals in their careers. Why? Because any player with ambition would not allow their reputation be diminished due to the poor quality of their coach. They won't blindly follow directions that don't make sense and would question things if they are not working. What bemuses me about this is that the United players under Fergie would have had an uproar if the team were producing the type of performances we've had over the last ten years. Keane would have had majore issues with Ten Haag. As would Neville and Rio. Just like the Chelsea players did after Jose. Why? Because they had standards and didn't want them to drop on the field due to the lack of tactical and coaching quality of the manager. Ferguson was a one off and people have to accept the fact that players won't agree with a manager if he isn't performing. Maybe, as fans, instead of looking at the players as spoilt brats, listening to those complaints might actually help us assess what the problems are in our play. Ten Haag should be questioned by the players as he has not earned the maintenance of their support. It's that simple. He wasn't born manager and wasting time with him will ultimately affect the relationship good players have with the club, just like having a bad boss would do to employees in an organization. Imagine you had a boss that consistently made poor decisions, yet people kept blaming his direct reports, as they should be able to know what to do. The manager gets away with poor communication, poor planning and can go to the press and complain about his staff with hardly any pushback. Leaks and rumours would start occuring. If they could, staff would start leaving and the rumours would spread around the company. That's why we have leaks, because its a sign that things aren't working in the football department. Yet people essentially are telling the players to shut up and play without actually taking anything into consideration. It's the managers. Players can't leave on their own accord, but I'm sure over the years, if they had a choice, there would be a high turnover of our most talented players as the club and fans actually to have the players' interests in mind.
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Enjoyable posts. Wish there were more of this quality during this torrid period.
 
hobbers said:
I dont think anyone said Pogba leaked anything. He very publicly went against his managers and Raiola very publicly slandered the club at every opportunity.

Lingard was a confirmed leaker. So was Henderson. So is Sancho, doesn't matter where he's training. He's still mates with Rashford and possibly others in the squad. Journalists are clearly still happy to print stuff he's the source of.

If there's a long serving United player leaking stuff it's 90% Rashford, 10% Martial. Only because Martial is so low energy and not actually all that invested in his own image or hype.
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Going back a bit, but wasn't Martial famously pissed off when Zlatan got the 9 shirt because it ruined all of his AM9 branding?
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Could be true. To my eyes we have moved very slightly around a very poor average performance in practically every game.
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Don't disagree, but the cup game against Crystal Palace and our game against Gala were our best flowing games attacking wise, and those were without him. Really makes a difference when all players work for it.
 
hobbers said:
Lingard was a confirmed leaker. So was Henderson. So is Sancho, doesn't matter where he's training. He's still mates with Rashford and possibly others in the squad. Journalists are clearly still happy to print stuff he's the source of.
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Is any of the above reputably sourced anywhere?
 
L1nk said:


Luckhurst with another piece this morning, apparently the 'time-served' players are questioning all of ETH's signings now, like Hojlund
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I wonder who those embodiments of footballing excellence might be? I also wonder if they have the guts to say it to Hojlund’s face?
 
RedOrange said:
Rashford has been jogging around all season. I don't know if these are actual leaks or reporters making things up, but my money would be on Rashford and Sancho if it's anyone.

Like I said though, a lot of these "leaks" could be reporters making up "controversies" from whole cloth, as they stand to gain a lot and there's no one to investigate or punish them for it.
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How in the name of Shatner could Rashford and Sancho have the balls to question the signing of Hojlund when they’re stinking up the place?
 
christy87 said:
Same was said about Pogba and lingard, where they false accusations, if we get rid of these 3 players, who will it be next, also how is Sancho leaking anything he's training with the kids
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It's been going on since Sir Alex left. We have sold Rooney, Sanchez, lukaku, Pogba, Lingard, Henderson, Ronaldo The so called bad apples. Now naturally it's just someone else's turn. But guess what we haven't improved . The on the field shitshow continues. It's almost as if the poor recruitment and the shit on the stick football are the ones who should be getting scrutiny. Those are the biggest consistent over the past decade. Once Martial and Rashford are gone our patterns of play will improve and we will pass the ball better than a Sunday team. As far as I am concerned the board is shit, the payers are shit and so is the manager.
 
Remember when Rashford tweeted like 2-3 weeks ago stop spreading malicious rumours to Goldbridge's channel? He's not tweeting anything now..
 
red_de_pologne said:
Remember when Rashford tweeted like 2-3 weeks ago stop spreading malicious rumours to Goldbridge's channel? He's not tweeting anything now..
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Why should he need too? He directed his ire at Goldbridge due to directly mentioning himself.

The club are speaking for him here.
 
Different manager, same sort of leaks.

The most annoying thing is when people say it's the same players responsible. Bearing in mind we've only got a couple of players still here since the first manager we started hearing all this stuff about.
Unless Rashford and Shaw are the total problem which you have to doubt.
They'll leave and we'll have the same stories in 2 years with the next manager.
 
pocco said:
I don't think he's fallen out with Rashford and Martial. But I do think there is something between him and Varane/Casemiro. Also not sure what's happened with Reguilon and maybe Eriksen/Mount though. That briefing to Sky sounded like it came from one of Varane or Casemiro though. Sancho & Varane obviously isn't his signing.
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First bolded point - there's actually evidence of potential rifts with these 2 players.
Second bolded point - both the ex Madrid players that have never done that before and are probably actually some of the most professional players at the club? Them lads? Also Casemiro is injured and isn't expected back 'til January. He's not been dropped. And Varane has to be managed because he's susceptible to injury.
Third bolded point - all 3 have been injured recently, Eriksen and Mount still are. And both of these players really don't have the character to do something like this. Also Shaw has returned now so he should go straight back in at left back.
Fourth bolded point - I think you just pulled that assumption right out of thin air, maybe you don't like Varane or Casemiro.

Martial, Rashford, Sancho. One of them, a combination of them, or the entourage are leaking stuff. They have become toxic players and need to be binned off.

If it looks like shit and smells like shit, better not step in to make sure it is shit.
 
clarkydaz said:
In a waterfall of leaks, we are told Sancho is 'training like a beast' :lol: hmmm
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I noticed this 'training like a beast ' quote too, this give a pretty big clue as to who is briefing the press. Only Sancho's own people would say something like that.
 
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