I see so many gushing over his writing and I don't get it. I think he's awful.
The "lazy black player" stereotype
- Thread starter Barca84
- Start date
Yeah he was incredible. He seemed to get better year on year too. Well, up-to a point.
To be fair Seri, Fred, Keita, Musa, Sterling or Mendy are all giants. And I forgot Kanté.
Not to mention Kante and the Brazil team of the 50s and 60s.
Pele was a huge 1m 73.
Eusebio dwarfed him at 1m 75
Funnily enough Edgar Davids was among the small players but played like a unit, while Pogba is among the units but plays like a small player.
Then name the thread "Racism in football". But why put racism and stereotypes where they don't exist. Just because someone says a player is lazy and that player happens to be black, it doesn't mean it's racist. This thread should have died as soon as it was made because there is no such thing as a "lazy black player stereotype". I can't believe I've even wasted my time responding to this shite...
Built like a middleweight and hit like one too
You haven't been following the debate have you?
It clearly goes to a racist stereotype.Black people will always be judged on their colour first and foremost: attitude problem,more interested in having a good time,bling,parties,hairdos
Started slowly in his first season, but really hit a purple patch around Christmas 2010 that started with two goals away at West Ham and ended with his goal in the FA Cup final against Stoke. Then he played a big role for us in the first title winning season (even if I thought Barry and Silva were better that year) and got two huge goals up at Newcastle. Mancini brought him to the club but he never got the best out of him outside of the business end of the season.
Toure's 13/14 season under Pellegrini, though, is the greatest individual season I've ever seen a player have. 24 goals in 49 games, adding 12 assists across nearly 4,000 minutes, all from central midfield. Those are unreal numbers that remain unmatched. As well as dominating basically every game he played in, he scored the goal that pulled us back from the dead in the League Cup final (which remains to this day the greatest goal I've ever seen live) and played a huge part in dragging us to the title once Liverpool had opened the door.
He tailed off a little during the 14-15 and 15-16 seasons but still scored a good number of goals (12 in 37, then 8 in 47), and he contributed bits and pieces to Pep's first season (7 goals in 31 games) before disappearing from the scene entirely by the time the Centurions campaign was under way. His goodbye celebration said it all, though, when Kompany picked up the microphone and started listing the big goals he'd scored for us down the years. I was there and I was choking up as it all came over me.
what a car crash of a post, why waste your time indeed
You highlighted an excerpt from an article on Toure which you said you felt best captured him. That's what I was referring to. I stand by what I said. It's a poor, misleading and lazy description of Toure that overemphasises his physicality. It was a common feature of his time at City by pundits, commentators and fans alike to emphasise his size and strength when praising him. It's strange because as a City fan I'd put him on the same pedestal as the likes of Silva and de Bruyne for sheer talent alone.
The fact that Berbatov (who actually was “lazy”) has been cited so often shows that the labelling of white players as lazy is rife like it is with black and specifically African players.
Shaun Wright-Phillips was a real powerhouse.
I do think racism exists in football, but is the last black player a thing? I see most people emphasize on physicality wrt black players rather than lazyness. Mane, Kante, Drogba, Essien, etc werent considered lazy. Who are these alleged lazy black players other than decent claim made towards Lukaku? Lukaku can be a technical monstrosity just like that big pony tailed CF Liverpool signed was - Caroll, was it?
Drogba’s a terrible example. He was criticized for “laziness” and “attitude problems” for the majority of his career in Chelsea. It was only retrospectively that the British media gave him the respect he deserved.
How does “yeah but people called Berbatov lazy”... show that it’s just as rife?
Berbatov was lazy and people called him lazy. If people somewhere else call black players lazy out of racist motivations, how does the first event have any meaningful impact on that?
I recall him being criticized for being a bit of bumbling mess early on which he was.
So one terrible example and 3 great ones? Is Drogba and Lukaku the only examples. Which other ones have been consistently called lazy?
For lots of people that have never experienced racism, it's seen as an overt act like using n-word, throwing bananas onto a pitch or calling out someone purely on skin colour. This is a nice easy way to look at it as allows people, politicians and journalists to write it off as a few bad apples in an otherwise tolerant bunch. But it ignores an endemic sometimes unconcious racism that is still prevalent throughout football. Commenting on Pogba's physicality or Lukaku's work rate is not by itself racist, the issue is that this is all that most people do, Pogba is far more likely to have his strength commended than his vision or his intelligence on the pitch. The same is true for Lukaku and so many other players of colour, Drogba was another good example.
There was study in the NFL a few years back looking specifically at the words used to describe black players and white players, they found that white players were described far more with words referring to their mentality like leadership, sharp and intelligent. Black players on the other hand were described with words like fluidity, raw and motor.
This is the same for football players in the UK and the way the UK press describes, it may be unconcious and it maybe that noone is actively tryng to cause offence, but it is endemic racism none the less.
There was study in the NFL a few years back looking specifically at the words used to describe black players and white players, they found that white players were described far more with words referring to their mentality like leadership, sharp and intelligent. Black players on the other hand were described with words like fluidity, raw and motor.
This is the same for football players in the UK and the way the UK press describes, it may be unconcious and it maybe that noone is actively tryng to cause offence, but it is endemic racism none the less.
You will have to excuse me for sticking to the topic and not drifting off because the topic is a non-issue. In other words, no...I did not read the thread. Didn't think I needed to waste my time considering how shite the original post is...
To be fair, Gareth Bale looks more like a monkey than most monkeys so It isn't always about race.
There is obviously still an issue with racism in a lot of society and most likely still in some corners of football, and it should not be accepted in any form. Not everything is racism though.
But you felt compelled to reply. If you can't be bothered to read, then don't bother to reply unless you just love to see your opinion in print.
The demand for racism exceeds the supply?
I think you've described the way racism works pretty accurately. In one of my media psychology classes we covered of a study in which probands were shown two images in such rapid succession that you could barely make out the motive. The first picture was of a face (belonging to either a black or a white person), the second one was of an object (either a hand gun or a drilling machine). The results were that if the people were shown the picture of the black person they were much more likely to correctly identify the hand gun and also much more likely to wrongly identify the drilling machine as a weapon.
However, I think that your claims of black players being described with certain phrases don't necessarily have to do with racism. The examples you brought up are of two players that are arguably the world's strongest in their positions. For both their physique is the most reminiscent aspect of their play. Pogba is a very good passer and has great skills in his pocket, yes, but I can easily think of midfielders that are more impressive with a ball at their feet. But I can think of none that can outmuscle his opponents the way Pogba does so naturally he's described as powerful and strong.
If there was a "black Iniesta" or "black Xavi" and they'd been described that way then fair enough but that is not the case IMO. Players get described based on their play style. I'm pretty sure somebody like Rooney would be described with phrases similar to those you are criticizing.
The lazy part I don't see at all, to be honest. Currently I can't really think of a black player commonly referred to as lazy besides maybe Balotelli and he has done more than enough to earn this reputation. Speaking of white players, there directly come multiple to mind: Özil, Verratti, Kroos, Isco, ...
Now if these descriptions of players are generally accurate respectively based on their playing style, this would mean that players of African heritage generally rely more on their physique compared to white players. And in all honesty, I don't think that this is wrong. Black people have advantages when it comes to sprinting and stamina so it's only logical that they make use of these traits in the same way Southern Europeans utilize their lower centers of gravity for quick turns and stuff like that. Currently, I don't see that a player isn't given credit if he has great technical abilities or quality in his decision making. Kante or Seri are good examples, IMO. Okocha back in the day.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/886214-20-laziest-players-in-world-football#slide15
A mixed bag of players, I'll leave you to decide which one's are deemed racist.
racism is still present nowadays unfortunately, but I can't help to feel the same with threads like this.Essien and Kanté are the other end of the scale. Black players who have been fetished for their physical abilities and work rates. Any black player who doesn’t fit into this stereotype is branded as lazy.
Pogba, Yaya, Yakubu, Bouba Diop, Benteke, Balotelli, Anderson, Robinho, Jô, Willian, Kanu, Geremi, Adebayor, Alex Song, Lualua, Sissoko, Wanchope, Bolasie, Anelka, Papiss Cissé, Bony, Desailly, Martial, N’Zogbia, Zaha, M’Vila, Iwobi, Sané, Sterling, Atsu, the Ayew brothers, Aurier, Fuller, Kenwyne Jones, Wanyama, Diouf, Diao, Utaka, Odemwingie, Kanouté, Yorke and McCarthy.
Would you like any more?
Wait all these players have been called lazy?
Benjani?
Garbage footballer but the guy ran himself into the ground. He was loved by Portsmouth fans despite failing to score for almost half a season after joining them because of his workrate.
It’s like the writer just picked an African footballer at random.
Kanu also played the majority of his career after having open heart surgery ffs.
At some point in their careers, yes.
I don't understand what you're getting at? So an inclusive list somehow proves that there isn't a stereotypical view of black players?
Do you honestly have proof that all of the named players have been called lazy, unwarranted? To me that seems like you've named every black player you know that played in the PL and are gonna work backwards from there.
Of course not, but there is a presumption that by mentioning a viewpoint/attribute of a certain player/person that it has to be deemed racist by default, just because it fits a stereotypical view. It's simply not the case.
Believe what you want, doesn’t bother me. I’m sure there are plenty of posters who will recognise the majority of those players having such things said about them.
Black players are lazy? If anything, I'd say they are viewed as being indefatigable.
Fernandinho
Sterling
Rashford
Kante
Welbeck
Wiji
Delph
Matuidi
Rose
Are players cited as being paragons of the kind of graft that's cheered by fans. France won a world cup with majority black squad that was lauded for its juxtaposition of technical class to work-ethic.
Fernandinho
Sterling
Rashford
Kante
Welbeck
Wiji
Delph
Matuidi
Rose
Are players cited as being paragons of the kind of graft that's cheered by fans. France won a world cup with majority black squad that was lauded for its juxtaposition of technical class to work-ethic.
None of those players are like the players quoted.
We’re not talking about height. We’re discussing playing styles.
Soooooo, what do we think about the most recent report on the subject (that for some reason I can’t link in this thread)
Search: ‘Groundbreaking report reveals racial bias in English football commentary’ in The Guardian
The findings are: Players with lighter skin more often praised for intelligence
And
Power and pace referenced more often if player has darker skin
Search: ‘Groundbreaking report reveals racial bias in English football commentary’ in The Guardian
The findings are: Players with lighter skin more often praised for intelligence
And
Power and pace referenced more often if player has darker skin
Hardly a surprise, anyone who doesn’t notice it isn’t paying attention imo.
Read the article, and im sure alot of it is correct, but using Isak and Mendy as examples wasnt a smart move.
Isak actually has terrible descision making and you can question Mendy's as well. I dont hope it undermines the report though. And im glad someone has actually gone a head and done research on the matter.