The "lazy black player" stereotype

[Cassidy]

5 out of the top 10 do

So basically not mostly darker skinned then....

 

[afrocentricity]

Even if the study might be flawed, you'd hope this can contribute in a way of getting some of those commentators to sharpen up their lazy commentary and descriptions. They could replace half of those guys with some better commentators even without any talk of skin colour, and those who are still unconscious about racism will probably be the same guys who gets a lot of other stuff wrong as well. Get with the program or move on.

Indeed, and in that respect is fine. People always seem to get defensive or want to argue devils arguement while missing the point.

 

[Rozay]

So, it is now considered a veiled insult to be called fast and strong. Some people are nuts.

It is a load of bollocks anyway. Trezeguet, Henry, Mane, Davids, Makelele, Seedorf, Kante etc. have all been praised for their intelligence and ability. Some people just love to find an insult in

Perhaps explore where these people are coming from a little before coming out with stupidity like this.

 

[Tom Cato]

In the context of negating technical ability and/or intelligence, it isn't entirely positive. Not that I am saying this is done purposely, and this is something that exists outside of football also.

No one has said black or darker skinned players are not called intelligent. The report is speaking about the commonly used phrases and how they link to skin tone as clearly stated.
So if a small percentage are called intelligent over physical that doesn't mean it is saying no one is called intelligent.

The problem is that it doesn't provide context. Physical characteristics are absolutely a factor when you view a persons ability. Lewis Dunk is going to get different plaudits than say David Silva, because they are vastly different playertypes and they have vastly different bodycompositions. I'd rather the discussion start there, than skintone. Compare correlation between players of skintone 1-20 with a height of say.. 6'1" who plays as forward or Centerbacks.

is there STILL a statistical disadvantage? Then have the discussion, but not before.

 

[Doracle]

Ive seen plenty of players do it, example Hazard and strength and speed isn't the terms first used to describe his talents when he does it. Even Grealish.
We also know that Adama Traore is often described as a player who lacks intelligence and technique.

I thought he was usually criticised for lack of end product rather than lack of technique? Such criticism was probably also fair in the past and has also died away this season because he had been producing.

Agree on that example though. I suspect it’s lazy quick tweeting based on the fact it’s Traore. There’s some great skill and balance there and I suspect that, had Sterling rather than Traore done it, it would have been labelled as “speed and skill”. Worth noting that the actual commentator refers to it as “great play”.

 

[Cassidy]

I thought he was usually criticised for lack of end product rather than lack of technique? Such criticism was probably also fair in the past and has also died away this season because he had been producing.

Agree on that example though. I suspect it’s lazy quick tweeting based on the fact it’s Traore. There’s some great skill and balance there and I suspect that, had Sterling rather than Traore done it, it would have been labelled as “speed and skill”. Worth noting that the actual commentator refers to it as “great play”.

You thought wrong. He gets both especially when he first came to the premier league. Lack of intelligence was rife when he first came.

Sterling used to also get criticised a lot for his technique.

 

[Rozay]

I thought he was usually criticised for lack of end product rather than lack of technique? Such criticism was probably also fair in the past and has also died away this season because he had been producing.

Agree on that example though. I suspect it’s lazy quick tweeting based on the fact it’s Traore. There’s some great skill and balance there and I suspect that, had Sterling rather than Traore done it, it would have been labelled as “speed and skill”. Worth noting that the actual commentator refers to it as “great play”.

Think the point here is that he is rarely celebrated for having brilliant technique and dribbling ability. Any fool can see he is fast and strong. But on this very caf, I’ve seen him described as just a pace merchant, kick and rush or whatever when discussing his dribbling stats - because that is the opinion that is formed of him.

He is obviously physically gifted, but is not given the credit for being technically gifted. There are many other examples.

 

[Cassidy]

The problem is that it doesn't provide context. Physical characteristics are absolutely a factor when you view a persons ability. Lewis Dunk is going to get different plaudits than say David Silva, because they are vastly different playertypes and they have vastly different bodycompositions. I'd rather the discussion start there, than skintone. Compare correlation between players of skintone 1-20 with a height of say.. 6'1" who plays as forward or Centerbacks.

is there STILL a statistical disadvantage? Then have the discussion, but not before.

Are the majority of darker-skinned players more physically developed than their lighter-skinned counterparts?
You seem to be suggesting that is what accounts for the discrepancy, I'm not sure there is evidence to support that. We have already seen that when it comes to pace for instance it is very balanced.

 

[Doracle]

You thought wrong. He gets both especially when he first came to the premier league. Lack of intelligence was rife when he first came.

Sterling used to also get criticised a lot for his technique.

Fair enough. I won’t have watched him that much when he first came to the premier league. All I can say is that the commentary I can recall listening to, combined with my own eyes, left me with a formed impression that he was a speedy dribbler who had no end product. I’ve heard nothing but praise for him this year. I agree that he probably still doesn’t get enough credit for his technique though.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Yes Greame Souness thinks of him as a strong powerful player rather than a technical player, because of his brand. Nail on the head stuff there.

Souness has called him the most talented midfielder in the league on multiple occasions, so that just simply isn’t true. He has an issue with Pogba’s attitude and demeanour which rubs him the wrong way. He still consistently praised Pogba’s technical ability.

 

[Tom Cato]

Are the majority of darker-skinned players more physically developed than their lighter-skinned counterparts?
You seem to be suggesting that is what accounts for the discrepancy, I'm not sure there is evidence to support that. We have already seen that when it comes to pace for instance it is very balanced.

No I'm suggesting that Romelu Lukaku is a larger human being than Pedro. That's what I'm getting at. Physical stature affects how you are complimented. For example people from Holland are generally significantly taller than someone from Spain. Median height in Spain is 170 cm (5' 7") compared to Netherlands 184.8 cm (6' 0.8"). Do dutch players get called "strong" more often than their Spanish counterparts? Do Spanish players get labeled as intelligent more often than the dutch players? Does their height have any statistical correlation?

Benjamin Mendy is 6'2" tall. He's a big guy. It should surprise no one that someone will say that he is a big and strong player. Here is a player analysis of Mendy by a white author ( https://www.esdfanalysis.com/player-analysis/benjamin-mendy/ ) " The piece of skill that Mendy shows in beating the defensive player is by no means an example of perfect technique but he is intelligent enough to use the defender’s momentum against him by cutting the ball back.

Lewis Dunk is another big defensive player. His main physical attribute is size and strength.

What I want is actual data that compares a players real life physical characteristics to their skintone in the positions that they play. Defenders are usually bigger than midfielders. Do defensive players who are white get praised for their intellect more than people of color in simiilar positions? Do forwards?

These things matter when you invite a discussion about systemic racism.

 

[macheda14]

Do defensive players who are white get praised for their intellect more than people of color in simiilar positions?

I’ve been thinking about exactly this. How many white centre backs get praised for being ball-playing centre backs compared to their black counterparts? And what are the actual stats?

Also your quote from the white author about Mendy shows nothing. He’s not being described as an intelligent player, more just intelligent enough at that particular moment.

 

[Jeppers7]

Souness has called him the most talented midfielder in the league on multiple occasions, so that just simply isn’t true. He has an issue with Pogba’s attitude and demeanour which rubs him the wrong way. He still consistently praised Pogba’s technical ability.

His expectations of what Pogba should be as a player differ from the reality of what he is as a player. Souness sees him as a strong powerful player IThe mould of Viera when in reality he is more of a technical player like a David Silva.

When Souness expands on his talents, he doesn’t say his got great touch, vision and skill, he says he is strong and powerful and as such expects him to get up and down the pitch rather than be a technical player.

Also Souness, and you, don’t know Pogba or his ‘attitude’ it’s a misconception, similarly his stats never back up talk of his ‘demeanour’

 

[Rozay]

Souness has called him the most talented midfielder in the league on multiple occasions, so that just simply isn’t true. He has an issue with Pogba’s attitude and demeanour which rubs him the wrong way. He still consistently praised Pogba’s technical ability.

His perception of Pogba’s attitude and demeanour.

 

[limerickcitykid]

His expectations of what Pogba should be as a player differ from the reality of what he is as a player. Souness sees him as a strong powerful player IThe mould of Viera when in reality he is more of a technical player like a David Silva.

Also Souness, and you, don’t know Pogba or his ‘attitude’ it’s a misconception, similarly his stats never back up talk of his ‘demeanour’

Pogba isn’t like David Silva at all. Pogba is strong and powerful. Why deny that? He is. He is also extremely talented. Both things Souness has praised him for multiple times.

I said that is Sounness’ issue. Not that he is correct. That’s the issue he has with Pogba whether it is correct or not.

A misconception that you have is that Sounness sees Pogba as a player without top technical abilities. The stats of Sounness calling him the most talented midfielder in the league never seem to back that up though.

 

[georgipep]

No I'm suggesting that Romelu Lukaku is a larger human being than Pedro. That's what I'm getting at. Physical stature affects how you are complimented. For example people from Holland are generally significantly taller than someone from Spain. Median height in Spain is 170 cm (5' 7") compared to Netherlands 184.8 cm (6' 0.8"). Do dutch players get called "strong" more often than their Spanish counterparts? Do Spanish players get labeled as intelligent more often than the dutch players? Does their height have any statistical correlation?

Benjamin Mendy is 6'2" tall. He's a big guy. It should surprise no one that someone will say that he is a big and strong player. Here is a player analysis of Mendy by a white author ( https://www.esdfanalysis.com/player-analysis/benjamin-mendy/ ) " The piece of skill that Mendy shows in beating the defensive player is by no means an example of perfect technique but he is intelligent enough to use the defender’s momentum against him by cutting the ball back.

Lewis Dunk is another big defensive player. His main physical attribute is size and strength.

What I want is actual data that compares a players real life physical characteristics to their skintone in the positions that they play. Defenders are usually bigger than midfielders. Do defensive players who are white get praised for their intellect more than people of color in simiilar positions? Do forwards?

These things matter when you invite a discussion about systemic racism.

People love generalising as it's easier to paint and explain life like that. I think it comes from mental laziness. It's just more convenient to use predefined properties than to make your own opinion on something. Especially when you have no direct exposure to the subject of discussion.

Similarly people are chovinistic and racist when they do not travel and see with their own eyes other people and lands. Combine that with gullible trust in what others say and you've got yourself easily swayed bigots.

 

[limerickcitykid]

His perception of Pogba’s attitude and demeanour.

Perception of attitude, perception of demeanour, perception of power, perception of talent. Everything is his perception. Obviously his opinions are based on his perception, what are anyone’s opinions based on other than their perception.

Sounness has at no point ever said Pogba has lacked technical ability or said he isn’t a technical player. In fact has called him the most talented midfielder in the league and pointed out he’s rare in being amazing technically and physically. Sounness is a shit pundit already, there is no reason to make up stuff to further that.

 

[He'sRaldo]

No I'm suggesting that Romelu Lukaku is a larger human being than Pedro. That's what I'm getting at. Physical stature affects how you are complimented. For example people from Holland are generally significantly taller than someone from Spain. Median height in Spain is 170 cm (5' 7") compared to Netherlands 184.8 cm (6' 0.8"). Do dutch players get called "strong" more often than their Spanish counterparts? Do Spanish players get labeled as intelligent more often than the dutch players? Does their height have any statistical correlation?

Actually Lukaku is a great example, because we as Utd fans know from his time with us that his physicality wasn't that functional, despite people often describing him as a physical specimen.

His playstyle depends more on his brain than his physique, but the generalizations are still there, with people comparing him with the likes of Drogba. Two very different forwards with different playstyles and few commonalities, and yet the comparisons were still made.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Actually Lukaku is a great example, because we as Utd fans know from his time with us that his physicality wasn't that functional, despite people often describing him as a physical specimen.

His playstyle depends more on his brain than his physique, but the generalizations are still there, with people comparing him with the likes of Drogba. Two very different forwards with different playstyles and few commonalities, and yet the comparisons were still made.

I mean aside from the fact Lukaku is terrible, the only qualities he does have are physical. He’s certainly not going to be described as ‘technical’ or praised for his ‘balanced dribbling’. The most apt words to describe Lukaku are donkey, clumsy and shite.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I mean aside from the fact Lukaku is terrible, the only qualities he does have are physical. He’s certainly not going to be described as ‘technical’ or praised for his ‘balanced dribbling’. The most apt words to describe Lukaku are donkey, clumsy and shite.

Lukaku's qualities are mental, similar to Chicharito.

He doesn't really bully with physique as often as a "physical player" should. We've already seen that Martial uses his physique better than Lukaku, and I'd say even technical dribblers like Hazard or Messi use their physique better. What Lukaku does have is the anticipation and movement of a very good forward. He also has a very good cross and final pass. Those are some things that I'd rate over his physicality.

And that's not to say that he has no physique whatsoever, but not to the extent that he is described as a physical player and compared with Drogba. I'd say his description should be more in line with a smart player who is somewhat limited in terms of technique, so basically a poacher. But of course, his appearance makes it easy to assume otherwise.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I mean aside from the fact Lukaku is terrible, the only qualities he does have are physical. He’s certainly not going to be described as ‘technical’ or praised for his ‘balanced dribbling’. The most apt words to describe Lukaku are donkey, clumsy and shite.

Apt words?

 

[JPRouve]

I mean aside from the fact Lukaku is terrible, the only qualities he does have are physical. He’s certainly not going to be described as ‘technical’ or praised for his ‘balanced dribbling’. The most apt words to describe Lukaku are donkey, clumsy and shite.

Not really. Outside of pace, Lukaku is physically underwhelming he doesn't play with power, he doesn't really use his size, he has poor balance and get bullied by smaller players. Lukaku has a good movement in the box and an excellent striking technique.

 

[Adnan]

Again the problem isn't that one mentions obvious athletic qualities but that often black players are reduced to them, in the case of Pogba it's even more ridiculous when what makes him standout is his technique but pundits easily get caught into the "He is strong and powerful" or a player making a great run is reduced to "look how fast he is". But that's not just about black players, Brazilian players are also stereotyped but to be honest pundits are generally useless and have no brains, you won't get much out of them outside of clichés which are sometimes based on ethnicity.

Completely agree and i've even experienced it on here where say a black player who is brilliant on the ball is labelled a brute etc and lacking in technical ability which is mind boggling for anyone who has consistently watched said player.

 

[Cassidy]

Not really. Outside of pace, Lukaku is physically underwhelming he doesn't play with power, he doesn't really use his size, he has poor balance and get bullied by smaller players. Lukaku has a good movement in the box and an excellent striking technique.

Indeed, Lukaku is a very good example of this in practice

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Apt words?

The most accurate...

 

[JPRouve]

Indeed, Lukaku is a very good example of this in practice

While writing the post I was telling myself the same thing. Pogba, Lukaku and Drogba are some of the best examples, Drogba may seem to be a weird mention because he was strong and knew how to use his body but I feel that his game intelligence, his tactical nous, his ability to play and disturb defenses has not been highlighted enough during his career while his physical attributes have been exaggerated to the point where many seem to think that he was bigger than he actually is.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Not really. Outside of pace, Lukaku is physically underwhelming he doesn't play with power, he doesn't really use his size, he has poor balance and get bullied by smaller players. Lukaku has a good movement in the box and an excellent striking technique.

I understand what you are saying and I don’t disagree but it’s still a little stupid to not recognise Lukaku’s physical game. He’s clearly fast and when he wants to he’s got strength, otherwise he would literally never be able to retain the football with his lead feet. I do agree with you and the poster above saying his anticipation is probably his greatest quality but you can’t get around he fact the dude is massive, about 100kg of muscle and is clearly strong even if he doesn’t know how to use it.

I would say the narrative around Lukaku reflects that. He’s recognised as a good goal poacher with good physical attributes, but is also someone who doesn’t know how to use them fully to his advantage.

 

[Rozay]

I haven’t even read the article, but this is certainly something that happens, and something my friends and I have talked about for as many years as we can remember. We even make jokes of ourselves when playing football, putting on a commentators tone and lauding our strength and pace etc.

The issue isn’t that a particular black player is not strong or fast or whatever. They obviously are. From my observation though, their technical and tactical abilities are often played down. Traore being a perfect example. He’s rapid, yes. But he’s a La Masia graduate and as technical as any young Spaniard, and it isn’t celebrated enough. There’s nothing Paul Scholes could do with a ball that Yaya Toure couldn’t, give or take, but the genius of Scholes was spoken about considerably more than the genius of Toure, who was ‘like a train’. Nobody is taking away his power, but those are genetic make up, he wasn’t dragged from a boxing gym or track and field to City’s midfield - he’s also an extremely talented footballer.

There was a comment a few weeks ago regarding the topic of black managers, where a former player said ‘they want our bodies but not our minds’. The massive disparity between black footballers and black managers will suggest that this is the case. So coming out with stuff like ‘Is Paul Pogba not stronger than Santi Cazorla?’ is missing the point. The fact that not enough Pogbas are following the path of Cazorlas after football would suggest that the value football saw in him was largely BECAUSE he was stronger than Cazorla. Black players make up just over a third of PL players. Clubs are clearly not ‘racist’ in the sense that they don’t want blacks to represent them. They are happy to hire them as players, and pay them lots of money even. But the drop from 35% to 0% in management suggests they are less happy to hire them as strategists and thinkers as they are to hire them to run and jump.

So while these physical attributes spoken of are often facts, it often appears that the value in these players is often seen in these particular facts. Players who have a lot more to offer than that which they probably want more credit for. This isn’t 100 metres. Players want to be known as ‘better’ than another, it isn’t a strength competition, and if they have equal or superior talent, I doubt it’s seen as the compliment people are saying it is to state the fact that x is stronger than y.

Pogba was far closer to being the ‘new Zidane’ than the ‘new Vieira’ coming up. He was a 10 as a kid. To me, his career would suggest that, while it is nice that he can kick the ball a bit, the instinctive thing to do would be to put him in the centre of midfield. He’s always been good enough technically to be the 10 in a team, but as a senior pro, was never developed that way. And thinking of it, the 10 role in top level football has rarely been occupied by black players. Perhaps the ones who can dribble and pass are taken out of these roles as the ‘brains’ of a team and put into more combative roles, or out wide in more instinctive roles. With Pogba’s skill-set, he’d likely have been developed as a 10, which fits his qualities, if he were of a different physical makeup. And probably be lauded as one of the best ones, as his technical ability is a match for the best. Riquelme is a similar player to Pogba in terms of characteristics. He’d have struggled in a midfield two, but would never have been expected to play in one. A Pogba, being 6’3, would never get to be a Riquelme generally speaking.

Kane and Lukaku are pretty much the same age and scored the same amount of PL goals near enough. I’ve never heard Lukaku’s cleverness, movement, or any other adjective that would suggest that he’s a top #9 because he’s put some thought into being one mentioned in the way it is for Kane. And speaking of Kane, his performance against United the other week was never mentioned in the context of ‘disinterest’, ‘didn’t feel like it’ or any of the things that were used against Martial on this very forum. He probably touched the ball 10 times, and Kane has many games like that. It’s never a question of ‘which Kane will turn up today’ or whether he fancies it, in the way Martial and Pogba’s good performances are summarised as them ‘deciding to play well’ on any given day.

 

[JPRouve]

I understand what you are saying and I don’t disagree but it’s still a little stupid to not recognise Lukaku’s physical game. He’s clearly fast and when he wants to he’s got strength, otherwise he would literally never be able to retain the football with his lead feet. I do agree with you and the poster above saying his anticipation is probably his greatest quality but you can’t get around he fact the dude is massive, about 100kg of muscle and is clearly strong even if he doesn’t know how to use it.

I would say the narrative around Lukaku reflects that. He’s recognised as a good goal poacher with good physical attributes, but is also someone who doesn’t know how to use them fully to his advantage.

It's not stupid because he doesn't have a physical game, as someone else mentioned it would be like mentioning that Chicharito sometimes outmuscled opponents. It happens but it's not their game and it's not something that they can do at will or with any consistency.

 

[Adisa]

Thread went exactly as I thought it would. Depressing.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

It's not stupid because he doesn't have a physical game, as someone else mentioned it would be like mentioning that Chicharito sometimes outmuscled opponents. It happens but it's not their game and it's not something that they can do at will or with any consistency.

Oh come on that’s just plain silly. You can’t seriously look at Lukaku and think “here’s a guy with no physical qualities”. Just because he doesn’t know how to use them on a football pitch very well doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I see the link to Chicharito I really do, I agree they are similar players, but do you really think if Chicharito was 6’2, 100kg and fast people wouldn’t talk about his physical attributes?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Thread went exactly as I thought it would. Depressing.

Care to explain how?

 

[JPRouve]

Oh come on that’s just plain silly. You can’t seriously look at Lukaku and think “here’s a guy with no physical qualities”. Just because he doesn’t know how to use them on a football pitch very well doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I see the link to Chicharito I really do, I agree they are similar players, but do you really think if Chicharito was 6’2, 100kg and fast people wouldn’t talk about his physical attributes?

I can due to your next sentence, it's actually the entire point made. Don't talk about players based on how they look but how they play.

 

[Eugenius]

I'm an infrequent visitor to OT and your info about the songs just horrifies me.

I must've imagined being stood in the Stretford End hearing the Smalling song then. 'Smalling of MUFC... He's big and he's black and he plays at the back' etc.

 

[Adisa]

I haven’t even read the article, but this is certainly something that happens, and something my friends and I have talked about for as many years as we can remember. We even make jokes of ourselves when playing football, putting on a commentators tone and lauding our strength and pace etc.

The issue isn’t that a particular black player is not strong or fast or whatever. They obviously are. From my observation though, their technical and tactical abilities are often played down. Traore being a perfect example. He’s rapid, yes. But he’s a La Masia graduate and as technical as any young Spaniard, and it isn’t celebrated enough. There’s nothing Paul Scholes could do with a ball that Yaya Toure couldn’t, give or take, but the genius of Scholes was spoken about considerably more than the genius of Toure, who was ‘like a train’. Nobody is taking away his power, but those are genetic make up, he wasn’t dragged from a boxing gym or track and field to City’s midfield - he’s also an extremely talented footballer.

There was a comment a few weeks ago regarding the topic of black managers, where a former player said ‘they want our bodies but not our minds’. The massive disparity between black footballers and black managers will suggest that this is the case. So coming out with stuff like ‘Is Paul Pogba not stronger than Santi Cazorla?’ is missing the point. The fact that not enough Pogbas are following the path of Cazorlas after football would suggest that the value football saw in him was largely BECAUSE he was stronger than Cazorla. Black players make up just over a third of PL players. Clubs are clearly not ‘racist’ in the sense that they don’t want blacks to represent them. They are happy to hire them as players, and pay them lots of money even. But the drop from 35% to 0% in management suggests they are less happy to hire them as strategists and thinkers as they are to hire them to run and jump.

So while these physical attributes spoken of are often facts, it often appears that the value in these players is often seen in these particular facts. Players who have a lot more to offer than that which they probably want more credit for. This isn’t 100 metres. Players want to be known as ‘better’ than another, it isn’t a strength competition, and if they have equal or superior talent, I doubt it’s seen as the compliment people are saying it is to state the fact that x is stronger than y.

Pogba was far closer to being the ‘new Zidane’ than the ‘new Vieira’ coming up. He was a 10 as a kid. To me, his career would suggest that, while it is nice that he can kick the ball a bit, the instinctive thing to do would be to put him in the centre of midfield. He’s always been good enough technically to be the 10 in a team, but as a senior pro, was never developed that way. And thinking of it, the 10 role in top level football has rarely been occupied by black players. Perhaps the ones who can dribble and pass are taken out of these roles as the ‘brains’ of a team and put into more combative roles, or out wide in more instinctive roles. With Pogba’s skill-set, he’d likely have been developed as a 10, which fits his qualities, if he were of a different physical makeup. And probably be lauded as one of the best ones, as his technical ability is a match for the best. Riquelme is a similar player to Pogba in terms of characteristics. He’d have struggled in a midfield two, but would never have been expected to play in one. A Pogba, being 6’3, would never get to be a Riquelme generally speaking.

Kane and Lukaku are pretty much the same age and scored the same amount of PL goals near enough. I’ve never heard Lukaku’s cleverness, movement, or any other adjective that would suggest that he’s a top #9 because he’s put some thought into being one mentioned in the way it is for Kane. And speaking of Kane, his performance against United the other week was never mentioned in the context of ‘disinterest’, ‘didn’t feel like it’ or any of the things that were used against Martial on this very forum. He probably touched the ball 10 times, and Kane has many games like that. It’s never a question of ‘which Kane will turn up today’ or whether he fancies it, in the way Martial and Pogba’s good performances are summarised as them ‘deciding to play well’ on any given day.

Bravo.

 

[Harry190]

Burnley took it to heart.

 

[afrocentricity]

I can due to your next sentence, it's actually the entire point made. Don't talk about players based on how they look but how they play.

Bingo!

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Ive seen plenty of players do it, example Hazard and strength and speed isn't the terms first used to describe his talents when he does it. Even Grealish.
We also know that Adama Traore is often described as a player who lacks intelligence and technique.

Never seen that of Hazard myself. It’s safe to see anyone do it.

Your second half is just daft. Nobody criticises his technique or questions his intelligence. His decision making and end product was poor for a while. It’s still up and down. That’s not a commentary on IQ. I certainly don’t extrapolate to that anyway.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I can due to your next sentence, it's actually the entire point made. Don't talk about players based on how they look but how they play.

Well no the point is we shouldn’t discriminate based on race, but that doesn’t mean we can’t make judgements based on looks, ie, height, weight, muscular definition. Forget race for a moment, Lukaku is;
- Tall
- likely around 100kg (heavy for a footballer)
- Very muscular in his definition.

The obvious comment when looking at those standalone qualities are strength and power, it’s just common sense.

I find this hard to say as I really don’t rate (or particularly like Lukaku) but at his best he absolutely does display power, and even his subtle moments appear less subtle due to his massive frame. That shouldn’t be controversial.

 

[JPRouve]

@Rozay Riquelme is an interesting example because he is relatively tall for a creative player at 183cm, Zidane was too and coaches have tried their best to not use them at 10 and try to develop their defensive side and use their physiques instead of simply letting them be who they are, Veron is an other example. I feel that it's a tangent from the racial stereotype but there is definitely a problem in football with judging players on their look instead of their game. I bet that many talented players ended up with worse careers than they would have otherwise.