Gaming The Last of Us Part II (PS4)

edgecutter said:
Anyone that has an issue with gay, female or trans characters needs to get a grip with reality and not be so short sighted.

The issue I was mentioning is that if you didn't particular like this game you are seen to have other motives which I have seen being used in this thread.
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Yeah, but who are they accusing? Other people in this thread (apart from the obvious)? You? Or the actual idiots posting that shite all over the web?

I mean, if you think YOU are specifically being targetted that's on you. As for the others, well it's right to call out the bigots. But unless you can point out otherwise, no one on here is calling ALL people who dislike the game those things. You are pressumably making the classic mistake of being offended elsewhere and bringing it here.
 
Eckers99 said:
Words can indeed mean different things. An agenda could be anything from a plan to a list of subjects to be discussed in a meeting to - in modern parlance - an aggressively held POV.

So, for the sake of clarity, what did you mean?
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Don't forget when combined with the "pushing" and what that implies too.

But don't expect an actual answer. He has nothing that won't shine a huge light on him and pose more questions.
 
edgecutter said:
Their appraisal left a lot of things out that could have helped (for me personally) alleviate expectations. Just little things like the repetition and the idea that this game will make you do things you won't be comfortable with.
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Oh I absolutely agree that many big review sites often fail in giving sufficient information on what actually goes on in video games or how they play, often lost in their own writing. I really don't need a review to be an attempted literary masterpiece, I mainly want it to be informative. But I don't see that as necessarily relevant to their final verdict, be it a recommendation or numbered score, which you seemed to take issue with.

One review that really nailed it for me was Eurogamer's. Throughout the text the reviewer outlined several misgivings - including those you mentioned - which provided readers with enough information to make up their own mind but proceeded to give it their highest possible verdict anyway. And that works for me, because a game isn't just a sum and subtraction of its positives and negatives according to a mathematical formula. You can be left feeling a game was a masterpiece to experience while still wishing some things were done differently.
 
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Ainu said:
Oh I absolutely agree that many big review sites often fail in giving sufficient information on what actuallu goes on in video games or how they play, often lost in their own writing. I really don't need a review to be an attempted literary masterpiece, I mainly want it to be informative. But I don't see that as necessarily relevant to their final verdict, be it a recommendation or numbered score, which you seemed to take issue with.

One review that really nailed it for me was Eurogamer's. Throughout the text the reviewer outlined several misgivings - including those you mentioned - which provided readers with enough information to make up their own mind but proceeded to give it their highest possible verdict anyway. And that works for me, because a game isn't just a sum and subtraction of its positives and negatives according to a mathematical formula. You can be left feeling a game was a masterpiece to experience while still wishing some things were done differently.
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Absolutely.
 
padr81 said:
Off topic but its gameplay is a ball of shite that controls like it was released on Ps1.
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I never really got that complaint with Red Dead 2, the character feels heavy but to me, that's just more realistic. The gunplay is some of the best around in my opinion.
 
Redlambs said:
Don't forget when combined with the "pushing" and what that implies too.

But don't expect an actual answer. He has nothing that won't shine a huge light on him and pose more questions.
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Exactly. Not quite sure how many interpretations of 'pushing an agenda' exist. Certainly not in this context.
 
pratyush_utd said:
Red dead redemption 2 has good story but controls are so bad that it almost made me give up on the game. Rockstar game design is outdated and probably hasn't changed from GTA 4. Those criticism were masked by initial excitement. Not sure how you can like Red dead Redemption gameplay and then feel Uncharted is boring. They both have same criticism of gameplay.
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Red Dead has far better gameplay than Uncharted IMHO, the gunplay for example is really satisfying. I have tried multiple times to get through Uncharted but it always falls to two things; I don't really enjoy the excess platforming or the Gunplay (admittedly I haven't played Uncharted 4 so perhaps that would change things for me). I also find the open word of games like Red Dead a far more interesting experience than simple linear levels. Those are some of the same reasons why I haven't played LOU either. I like the sound of many of the elements, but I just can't seem to motivate myself to download and play the first one, which I've taken as a sign it might not be for me.
 
Redlambs said:
I wouldn't say TLOU is anything like Uncharted, though I doubt you'll like them all the same. (Btw, I don't like the uncharted games much either).
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Thanks, sorry if I misunderstand are you saying that you like LOU but not really a massive fan of Uncharted? I'm just slightly worried about everyone always criticizing the gameplay (mainly on the original) and the linear level design compared to the open-world games which I usually gravitate too. Conversely, I gave God of War a try last year and that didn't let me down at all, great gameplay, great story, just an overall fantastic game experience.
 
The menu navigation in RDR2 were definitely bad but I don't think the movement or gunplay controls were bad at all. It's not a flawless game that's for sure, not saying otherwise, the very slow start of the story, menu navigation and not being able to call a horse if it's far away, and the amount of horses to steal on the road weren't that many which resulted in some annoying moments (one time I had to run on my leg for 30 minutes to reach the camp and get another horse because mine died and didn't find any other one to steal).

But I think these flaws are overall a drop in the sea of positives the game has that it doesn't affect it being a 10/10 experience for me.
 
edgecutter said:
I don't agree that people are angry because Ellie is a lesbian, my main issue with the game was that it was a miserable experience all the way through and the game doesn't allow you to do anything else but miserable things (then they have the audacity to make you feel like shit for doing said things).
or
The game drags on for far too long and that isn't helped by who you take over in the middle of the game. The gameplay is far too repetitive to keep going for 25 hours and it isn't evolved enough from the previous game.

Also, the hype and the perfect review scores didn't help. This game isn't 10/10, it should be at the highest 7-8/10 and some reviewers comparing this game to Schindler's list just made people ready to tear the game a new one.
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The ones i am talking about are the ones who gave it 0/10 on Metacritic when the game had been out for two hours, thats not legit complaints thats just salty right wingers and/or platform warriors.
 
edgecutter said:
I can agree on the score, but the main journalist reviews bigged this game up to such an extent that the hype was insane, it's a good game (gameplay wise) albeit with a very poor plot that has been done better elsewhere.

In my personal opinion, I didn't enjoy the game, and that could be on me as I went in with high expectations, but people have to stop with the sexism, homophobic and transphobic arguments as these shouldn't be used to beat people because they didn't enjoy the game.
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Well, I don't see it as "bigging" the game up, per se. They all just came to the conclusion that it's a masterpiece. It's pretty much universally praised. Obviously, that doesn't mean everyone has to like it (you didn't) and the things that you said were bad were the things that they highlighted as being the standout. That's the joy of something being purely subjective. That's why I've always found it strange that people almost treat it as fact when implying the person who gave it a 10/10 (whether movie or game) is wrong

As for the bold part, I agree that just because you didn't like the game it doesn't make you a homophobic, sexist, gobshite. That's obviously not true for everyone. You can have genuine criticism that's perfectly valid. However, there's is a significant portion of people who hate the game purely for these reasons. How many of those user reviews on Metacritic are actually honest and genuine in their criticism, without being purely motivated by their dislike for Naughty Dogs' apparent "wokeness". Or the death threats they've received. Or the comments under every video or tweet someone at the studio sends out.

It is a shame because you can absolutely have genuine criticisms of the game without being any of those things - obviously. But the unfortunate reality is, this game and this studio attracts a certain crowd. That's just a fact.
 
macheda14 said:
I know what you’re saying. Regarding Horizon I thought the beginning of the game was bad - so many open world games start super slowly. But now I’m probably 5 hours in and the combat is great and the open world super interesting.

I couldn’t in good conscience recommend or advise people not to play a game I’d barely played. The furthest I could go is ‘nah not for me’, unless it was truly truly broken. I mean I just tried to start Kingdom Come: Deliverance, and my word the game seems shocking in the first hour or so, but from what I’ve read of other fans, once you get into the meat of the game and forgive its bugs, it’s really engaging. I can understand that because my favourite game of all time is Oblivion. I’m probably not going to play Kingdom Come because I’m not in the mood to push through, but I’m not going to have a firm opinion on it purely because I haven’t seen what it has to offer.

Giving a game a total score for a partial play through doesn’t sit well with me. I mean it wouldn’t have an effect on a company of Naughty Dog’s size, but say I was playing an indie game with 10 reviews on Steam. That one bad review with only 10% played isn’t helping other gamers make an informed decision, but more importantly it’s adversely affecting the indie studio.
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See this is the thing, I would never make a review that says "Don't buy this game" nor would I let a review push me one way or the other. I take reviews as one persons opinion. I know that there are games I give 9/10 others will give 3/10 and vice versa. Neither person is wrong, a bad review is just one persons opinion.

Myself and some friends are actually working on an indie game made in an engine most people consider a toy. I should add it'll be free and is not going to be anyone's livelyhood (which is a big point and also thank Gold or we'd be homeless) but for me I think it depends on the delivery of the review. If I got a review something like "I gave this game a 3. I couldn't finish it because the story took to long to get me invested I couldn't push on. The gameplay is clunky and controls are stiff. But visuals are impressive etc.." Feedback like this makes me think ("Where did I go wrong with this guy in particular", "is this a common thread across multiple players, if yes, I need to make the start of my game more interesting to retain players, if its one of 100 players, its likely not a concern" That is a legit review after 2 hours that I need to analyze and learn from. I have no issue with other people reading something like this either, whereas "You killed x, you're pushing political agenda's your whole company should get aids" is a non-legit review and I think "Nothing to see there its just trolls being trolls." moving on.

Not trying to compare myself to Naughty Dog or even legit developers who do this stuff on real engines as a job but might give my perspective a bit better.
 
padr81 said:
See this is the thing, I would never make a review that says "Don't buy this game" nor would I let a review push me one way or the other. I take reviews as one persons opinion. I know that there are games I give 9/10 others will give 3/10 and vice versa. Neither person is wrong, a bad review is just one persons opinion.

Myself and some friends are actually working on an indie game made in an engine most people consider a toy. I should add it'll be free and is not going to be anyone's livelyhood (which is a big point and also thank Gold or we'd be homeless) but for me I think it depends on the delivery of the review. If I got a review something like "I gave this game a 3. I couldn't finish it because the story took to long to get me invested I couldn't push on. The gameplay is clunky and controls are stiff. But visuals are impressive etc.." Feedback like this makes me think ("Where did I go wrong with this guy in particular", "is this a common thread across multiple players, if yes, I need to make the start of my game more interesting to retain players, if its one of 100 players, its likely not a concern" That is a legit review after 2 hours that I need to analyze and learn from. I have no issue with other people reading something like this either, whereas "You killed x, you're pushing political agenda's your whole company should get aids" is a non-legit review and I think "Nothing to see there its just trolls being trolls." moving on.

Not trying to compare myself to Naughty Dog or even legit developers who do this stuff on real engines as a job but might give my perspective a bit better.
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Good luck for your indie game by the way. Tell us when it's finished. :)
 
Back on topic... I'm now 8 hours in.

The only real bad point on my next 4 hours is... Why in the world didn't Dina tell Ellie she thought she was pregnant? another character making a stupid decision and I like Dina. These are the kind of things that didn't happen in the first game.

The good - I really enjoyed the semi-open worldness before my horse got blown up and shot in the head. That scene though was well done. One gameplay thing I really enjoyed was being able to set clickers and infected on the WLF by throwing a bottle or smoke bomb (just before the shamblers) and before the tv station.

I ended at the museum tour with Joel and its clear ND are trying to show maybe he did mellow too much/become complacent when he had a new daughter. I still disagree with the logic and how contrived it felt but that was a really great scene.

The same - It still feels very long between plot points and moving the story forward but my exploring probably dragged that out.

I still don't like the story or where its going but it is much more engaging when playing it than watching.
 
I seem to think along the same lines as @padr81 more or less. Especially the last sentence in the post above.

Something that may explain why the story doesn't feel as good as the first (for some, not all) is because it seems to be a repurposing of a plot that was deemed too unrealistic for the first game.

In the first game, Tess was going to be the antagonist...

Tess' original role as antagonist was explained in further detail at Neil Druckmann's keynote at 2013 IGDA in Toronto. This version of Tess was to have a brother who was killed in crossfire with the military while she and Joel were smuggling Ellie out of the Quarantine Zone, and consequently, she would've blamed Joel for his death. For the remainder of the game, Tess was to pursue Joel and Ellie across America with a crew of henchmen. After the events of the Salt Lake City chapter, Joel was to have been captured by Tess and tortured. However, he would be saved by Ellie, who would've killed Tess and her henchmen. This version of the plot was abandoned after Naughty Dog decided that her pursuit of Joel for a year across the entire country felt too unrealistic.

https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Tess
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A revenge mission across the country was deemed too unrealistic then for Tess and henchmen but it's fine now for Ellie with her pregnant girlfriend. It feels lazy, like "Ah, why don't we just change some of that old story we had?"
 
padr81 said:
Back on topic... I'm now 8 hours in.

The only real bad point on my next 4 hours is... Why in the world didn't Dina tell Ellie she thought she was pregnant? another character making a stupid decision and I like Dina. These are the kind of things that didn't happen in the first game.

The good - I really enjoyed the semi-open worldness before my horse got blown up and shot in the head. That scene though was well done. One gameplay thing I really enjoyed was being able to set clickers and infected on the WLF by throwing a bottle or smoke bomb (just before the shamblers) and before the tv station.

I ended at the museum tour with Joel and its clear ND are trying to show maybe he did mellow too much/become complacent when he had a new daughter. I still disagree with the logic and how contrived it felt but that was a really great scene.

The same - It still feels very long between plot points and moving the story forward but my exploring probably dragged that out.

I still don't like the story or where its going but it is much more engaging when playing it than watching.
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Yeah, I really liked that scene with Ellie and Joel. I thought they done a really nice job there. And this is why I don't see it as a fault when he was more open than he would've been previously when he met up with Abby. He really has changed in that sense. As for the Dina thing, didn't she kind of make out that she wasn't completely sure, maybe a bit of self-denial. Also, I just read it as her really wanting to go with Ellie and confronting the fact that she was possibly pregnant and telling Ellie could've sabotaged that. Again, it reads as her just being in denial somewhat. I dunno. I'll hold off complete judgment and see where it goes. I do really like Dina and Ellie together though.

I do agree that it seems to take a while to get to the next cut scene though. I really want to progress the story, but I'm spending so much time scavaging that it's taking a while to get to the next story beat. Also, I seem to be searching the same buildings due to things kinda looking samey in certain areas. This could be on me though. I am very thorough to a fault at times.
 
BusbyMalone said:
Yeah, I really liked that scene with Ellie and Joel. I thought they done a really nice job there. And this is why I don't see it as a fault when he was more open than he would've been previously when he met up with Abby. He really has changed in that sense. As for the Dina thing, didn't she kind of make out that she wasn't completely sure, maybe a bit of self-denial. Also, I just read it as her really wanting to go with Ellie and confronting the fact that she was possibly pregnant and telling Ellie could've sabotaged that. Again, it reads as her just being in denial somewhat. I dunno. I'll hold off complete judgment and see where it goes. I do really like Dina and Ellie together though.

I do agree that it seems to take a while to get to the next cut scene though. I really want to progress the story, but I'm spending so much time scavaging that it's taking a while to get to the next story beat. Also, I seem to be searching the same buildings due to things kinda looking samey in certain areas. This could be on me though. I am very thorough to a fault at times.
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Yeah that's what my thoughts were aswel in my earlier post. Some missions are too long and wear you down a bit as you progress. Especially when you are repeating it again with Abby
 
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AaronRedDevil said:
Yeah that's what my thoughts were aswel in my earlier post. Some missions are too long and wear you down a bit as you progress. Especially when you are repeating it again with Abby.
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Yeh the one biggest and consistent criticism even amongst those that like the game is that it’s too long. When the second half started, I was less annoyed about the idea of it, more just I had so much to go till the ending.
 
I read all the leaks previously out of curiosity so spoilers for me don't hurt much anymore. :lol:
 
Just started the second half - I don't really know if it's "half", we'll see, but at least it feels like it - and yeah this is a huge risk Naughty Dog are taking here. I can certainly see why it's not for everyone. I'll continue to do as I've always done with Naughty Dog and give them the benefit of doubt and see where this takes me. Knowing them, I'm going to assume the pay-off will be worth it in the end. It's a bit of a momentum stopper but I do look forward to exploring the other side. But yeah, people who didn't like Abby in the first place probably lose their shit at this point. :lol:
 
Ainu said:
Just started the second half - I don't really know if it's "half", we'll see, but at least it feels like it - and yeah this is a huge risk Naughty Dog are taking here. I can certainly see why it's not for everyone. I'll continue to do as I've always done with Naughty Dog and give them the benefit of doubt and see where this takes me. Knowing them, I'm going to assume the pay-off will be worth it in the end. It's a bit of a momentum stopper but I do look forward to exploring the other side. But yeah, people who didn't like Abby in the first place probably lose their shit at this point. :lol:
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I think when I get there I'll throw her off the first cliff I come across and imagine the Joel thing was all a dream.
 
I love how people had massive hissy fits over the weapons in Zelda, but not a single mention of a fecking crowbar breaking in 4 hits in this :lol:

Oh and though the sound design is great, the sound engine really is trash at enemy footsteps even with headphones on.
 
Well this thread has inspired me to finally download and play LOU 1 Remastered so I suppose ill know from that whether this game is for me.
 
So I've reached the part where
Abby has set off on her own to find Owen
& The more I play this the more the reaction from some of the gaming community, youtubers and the like on the more right side the political spectrum sections seems so utterly pathetic. Bigoted misconceptions being pushed as fact, embarrassing knee jerk reactions and alot of unjustified crying.

If we really want to talk about pushing agendas then the worst culprits were these salty leaked spoiler fumers and day one review bombers. They're just as hysterical and thin skinned as they will tell you the "SJW's" they love to whine about are.

You'd think Game of Thrones would've hardened people up a bit on important and well liked characters dying brutal deaths and revenge mission plans not exactly going peachy & spiraling out of control in all sorts of horrific ways but I guess not
 
Redlambs said:
I love how people had massive hissy fits over the weapons in Zelda, but not a single mention of a fecking crowbar breaking in 4 hits in this :lol:
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This is the only thing stopping me to enjoy Zelda BotW, I am not exactly having a fit over that but I end up just hoarding best weapons forever and using shitty ones because of fear of losing them. If BotW was natively on PC, there would be a weapon durability mod long time ago that would make me enjoy it more. I just need them lasting a bit more, not forever.

Anyway, sorry for the offtopic again.
 
I'm a terrible hoarder in games.

Two clickers, a normal infected and a shambler in a room? "Hmm, should I use this molotov? I might need it later."
 
evil_geko said:
This is the only thing stopping me to enjoy Zelda BotW, I am not exactly having a fit over that but I end up just hoarding best weapons forever and using shitty ones because of fear of losing them. If BotW was natively on PC, there would be a weapon durability mod long time ago that would make me enjoy it more. I just need them lasting a bit more, not forever.

Anyway, sorry for the offtopic again.
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Yeah, it has proper gear fear. But the point was to be creative with everything in the game (since it's one of if not THE most complete worlds to date), they went a little far promoting it by having weapons break so quick, but soon enough you realise that you find great weapons literally everywhere anyway.

But again, the first few great weapons you find, you definitely tell yourself not to use :lol:
 
Shane88 said:
I'm a terrible hoarder in games.

Two clickers, a normal infected and a shambler in a room? "Hmm, should I use this molotov? I might need it later."
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I just go in like an arsonist in with molotovs, they always load you up before a big fight anyway ... The beauty of playing on easy :lol:
 
Shane88 said:
I'm a terrible hoarder in games.

Two clickers, a normal infected and a shambler in a room? "Hmm, should I use this molotov? I might need it later."
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I'm not far past the third manual, so still early I believe, and I have over 200 of both pills and scrap!

Oh and I'm on the hardest difficulty, so I'm assuming that's a ridiculous feat :lol:
 
About half way and loving it but have to say that one thing I hate are

Those flashback sections, particularly the ones that don't involve Joel and Ellie
 
Does it trigger anyone else when you're playing stealthy and your buddy is running around like a head less chicken in direct view of the enemy.

Even though the enemy only react to you It just ruins it for me when they're looking straight at your friend running around in the open.
 
dannyrhinos89 said:
Does it trigger anyone else when you're playing stealthy and your buddy is running around like a head less chicken in direct view of the enemy.

Even though the enemy only react to you It just ruins it for me when they're looking straight at your friend running around in the open.
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Ahh but they can spot her, it just seems a bit more random. Then, of course, they know exactly where you are and come charging at you not her.

The A.I is an absolute mess in this :lol:
 
Redlambs said:
Ahh but they can spot her, it just seems a bit more random. Then, of course, they know exactly where you are and come charging at you not her.

The A.I is an absolute mess in this :lol:
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That was my one gripe with the game. The human AI is terrible, and I was playing on hard. So many times I'd be crouch walking slowly between cover and the AI would be staring at me for a good 3 or 4 seconds but they still wouldn't notice me. Not to mention all the times I'd grab an enemy in full view of one of their friends, "stealth" kill them, and crouch back down without getting caught.

The rest of the game was very, very good though, if a little long.

I accidentally read on here that Abby was a playable character, and when she killed Joel I was thinking there's no way in hell I'd be happy playing as her. Credit to Naughty Dog though, by the end of the game I was actively rooting for her over Ellie, and definitely didn't see her as a villain.

I genuinely don't understand how any sane, rational person can think this game is pushing an agenda or the work of SJWs.
 
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