The Lack Of Maturity In The Current United Squad

[Garnacho Libre]

United have so many problems post Fergie - Glazer's mishandling of the club, the debt, countless managers, wrong signings, over paid contracts, the INEOS takeover, poor results, staff cuts, ticket price increases. The list goes on. United have been just chaos.

The one thing not many people talk about is the lack of options and maturity. Take aside the music and dancing in the dressing room. Maturity in the sense of the age of players United rely on.

When United were successful - and any other successful team - each of the winning teams had options. As fans, I think we should have more understanding of a lot of signings we make.

Rasmus - A young player - comes to the club with the weight of the world on his shoulders. We - and pundits - and the club - expected him to have all the answers when it comes to goalscoring.

When Rooney was signed - although he was without a doubt a special player - United have so many forward options that if Rooney didn't take off right away, he had time to ease into the team and earn his place. We had Ruud, Forlan, Ole, Saha. Mostly all seasoned players. Players that have played in the PL for quite some time and have had success in a winning culture.

Rasmus - runs and runs and gets frustrated with a lack of service. When he does get service and because he is frustrated - his mental state isn't what it should be. Rasmus is just an example.

The same can be said for Mainoo - we should not be relying on him to start. Garnacho - we should not be relying on him also. Whatever about Garnacho now after playing a few seasons - we should never have relied on him when he first broke into the team - When Ronaldo came - we had Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Neville to keep him in line. Who does Garnacho have to keep him in line? Perhaps Bruno does things like this, but there's very few seasoned and mature players who can keep these young players focused and in line. Rashford by now - should be one of those mature players - but he never had a player keep him in line when he was younger - so why would he do it to the younger players now? Cause it wasn't engrained in him. He never fully matured and reached his potential as a player.

In the summer, I think United need to sign a few seasoned players that can really benefit the younger players. I think that should be a priority.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Who is dancing in the dressing room?

 

[Garnacho Libre]

Who is dancing in the dressing room?

Back when Lingard and Rashford a few years back after losses, it was reported back at the time. I said that in terms of the lack of maturity post Fergie - that shouldn't be happening after losses. That's not a winning culture.

 

[cyril C]

United have so many problems post Fergie - Glazer's mishandling of the club, the debt, countless managers, wrong signings, over paid contracts, the INEOS takeover, poor results, staff cuts, ticket price increases. The list goes on. United have been just chaos.

The one thing not many people talk about is the lack of options and maturity. Take aside the music and dancing in the dressing room. Maturity in the sense of the age of players United rely on.

When United were successful - and any other successful team - each of the winning teams had options. As fans, I think we should have more understanding of a lot of signings we make.

Rasmus - A young player - comes to the club with the weight of the world on his shoulders. We - and pundits - and the club - expected him to have all the answers when it comes to goalscoring.

When Rooney was signed - although he was without a doubt a special player - United have so many forward options that if Rooney didn't take off right away, he had time to ease into the team and earn his place. We had Ruud, Forlan, Ole, Saha. Mostly all seasoned players. Players that have played in the PL for quite some time and have had success in a winning culture.

Rasmus - runs and runs and gets frustrated with a lack of service. When he does get service and because he is frustrated - his mental state isn't what it should be. Rasmus is just an example.

The same can be said for Mainoo - we should not be relying on him to start. Garnacho - we should not be relying on him also. Whatever about Garnacho now after playing a few seasons - we should never have relied on him when he first broke into the team - When Ronaldo came - we had Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Neville to keep him in line. Who does Garnacho have to keep him in line? Perhaps Bruno does things like this, but there's very few seasoned and mature players who can keep these young players focused and in line. Rashford by now - should be one of those mature players - but he never had a player keep him in line when he was younger - so why would he do it to the younger players now? Cause it wasn't engrained in him. He never fully matured and reached his potential as a player.

In the summer, I think United need to sign a few seasoned players that can really benefit the younger players. I think that should be a priority.

All make sense except the last sentence. Seasoned players, do you mean Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, Casemiro?

 

[Glorio]

United have so many problems post Fergie - Glazer's mishandling of the club, the debt, countless managers, wrong signings, over paid contracts, the INEOS takeover, poor results, staff cuts, ticket price increases. The list goes on. United have been just chaos.

The one thing not many people talk about is the lack of options and maturity. Take aside the music and dancing in the dressing room. Maturity in the sense of the age of players United rely on.

When United were successful - and any other successful team - each of the winning teams had options. As fans, I think we should have more understanding of a lot of signings we make.

Rasmus - A young player - comes to the club with the weight of the world on his shoulders. We - and pundits - and the club - expected him to have all the answers when it comes to goalscoring.

When Rooney was signed - although he was without a doubt a special player - United have so many forward options that if Rooney didn't take off right away, he had time to ease into the team and earn his place. We had Ruud, Forlan, Ole, Saha. Mostly all seasoned players. Players that have played in the PL for quite some time and have had success in a winning culture.

Rasmus - runs and runs and gets frustrated with a lack of service. When he does get service and because he is frustrated - his mental state isn't what it should be. Rasmus is just an example.

The same can be said for Mainoo - we should not be relying on him to start. Garnacho - we should not be relying on him also. Whatever about Garnacho now after playing a few seasons - we should never have relied on him when he first broke into the team - When Ronaldo came - we had Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Neville to keep him in line. Who does Garnacho have to keep him in line? Perhaps Bruno does things like this, but there's very few seasoned and mature players who can keep these young players focused and in line. Rashford by now - should be one of those mature players - but he never had a player keep him in line when he was younger - so why would he do it to the younger players now? Cause it wasn't engrained in him. He never fully matured and reached his potential as a player.

In the summer, I think United need to sign a few seasoned players that can really benefit the younger players. I think that should be a priority.

Completely agree with this, which is why I find the clamour to for Amorim to play the kids ridiculous. He's already playing kids and would just be replacing them with younger, even less experienced kids.

If he heeded those shouts, at this rate, we'd be playing the U-12s and wondering why we're not sweeping everyone aside while sternly berating them about standards.

We need a couple of very good, vocal, confident, but calm-headed and mature pros to help the youngsters. I say very good because their level of performances as well as their words will help set the standards. The big challenge is obviously that such players are extremely expensive.

 

[tomaldinho1]

This is the conscious decision by Ineos though, and it is a good move in my opinion. In a perfect world, of course there would have been more forward planning by the Glazers that would require having some kind of ability to plan in the first place.

Keep buying 18-22 year olds + keep building. We have enough seasoned players for the short term, De Ligt, Maz, Dalot, Bruno, Onana, Martinez will all be here next season, they're all mid twenties or older, that's almost half a team of arguable starters. That's not including guys like Case or Rashford who might still be around.

It's all about signing the young, high potential guys and then you either strike lucky or you develop them enough to still sell them for good money. No more older guys on the tail end of their careers, not until we're in a position to cherry pick - for example, let's say in two seasons we're right back at the elite table but we need a striker, then you can splurge on a big name, a Kane or Lewa equivalent maybe who is late twenties early thirties. But otherwise, more Dorgus.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

All make sense except the last sentence. Seasoned players, do you mean Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, Casemiro?

They were seasoned players but obviously didn't fit in. That's down to recruitment as well. But those seasoned players didn't seem to make a good impact by keeping younger players in line.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

This is the conscious decision by Ineos though, and it is a good move in my opinion. In a perfect world, of course there would have been more forward planning by the Glazers that would require having some kind of ability to plan in the first place.

Keep buying 18-22 year olds + keep building. We have enough seasoned players for the short term, De Ligt, Maz, Dalot, Bruno, Onana, Martinez will all be here next season, they're all mid twenties or older, that's almost half a team of arguable starters. That's not including guys like Case or Rashford who might still be around.

It's all about signing the young, high potential guys and then you either strike lucky or you develop them enough to still sell them for good money. No more older guys on the tail end of their careers, not until we're in a position to cherry pick - for example, let's say in two seasons we're right back at the elite table but we need a striker, then you can splurge on a big name, a Kane or Lewa equivalent maybe who is late twenties early thirties. But otherwise, more Dorgus.

Of course with the young we can build for the future. But these young players need mature players to keep them in line. Every other top team has these players in good numbers. My fear is these young players (Rasmus, Garnaco, Mainoo, Amad etc..) all have good potential but we don't want to risk their development by over relying on them and also them getting too comfortable.

Look at the class of 92. They made up half the team practically after a couple seasons.....but United had the likes of Bruce, Pallister...then Cantona who can keep players in line and we could rely on them on the pitch because their seasoned. The team didn't depend only on a young Giggs, Scholes etc... Now, we are relying on young players. They went on to be the heart beat of the team for over a decade then they became the seasoned players.

 

[stepic]

Disagree. Buying ‘experienced’ players on big money is exactly where we’ve gone wrong in recent years. The youth movement is a much better strategy.

We have 11 players 27 and older compared to 9 players 22 or younger. Average age is 26 years old. I don’t see it as a problem.

Keep bringing in youth. The players already here and around that 26, 27 mark will become the experienced heads as the team progresses in the coming years.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Of course with the young we can build for the future. But these young players need mature players to keep them in line. Every other top team has these players in good numbers. My fear is these young players (Rasmus, Garnaco, Mainoo, Amad etc..) all have good potential but we don't want to risk their development by over relying on them and also them getting too comfortable.

Look at the class of 92. They made up half the team practically after a couple seasons.....but United had the likes of Bruce, Pallister...then Cantona who can keep players in line and we could rely on them on the pitch because their seasoned. The team didn't depend only on a young Giggs, Scholes etc... Now, we are relying on young players. They went on to be the heart beat of the team for over a decade then they became the seasoned players.

But as I listed, this ain’t actually the case. There’s 5-6 senior players. It’s only really striker this is an issue and that’s because we literally have 1 CF in the entire squad more than Ramsus being young.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

Disagree. Buying ‘experienced’ players on big money is exactly where we’ve gone wrong in recent years. The youth movement is a much better strategy.

We have 11 players 27 and older compared to 9 players 22 or younger. Average age is 26 years old. I don’t see it as a problem.

Keep bringing in youth. The players already here and around that 26, 27 mark will become the experienced heads as the team progresses in the coming years.

I think I should have worded the post a bit better. I understand how people are reading it by the replies.

Really, I'm just worried these young players we have, whom have good potential, might not fully develop because in my opinion I feel we need a few of the right mature players (to sign) that can be a good impact on the young players.

Basically what I am saying, I think there is a lack of leadership. More often than not, leadership comes from mature and experienced players.

Like you can't see any leadership qualities from the likes of Dalot, Rashford etc... Rashford was barely running at one point. For a mature player, he should be bursting his gut no matter what. If you're a young player like Amad, and you see Rashford (who should be the main man), barely running, what does that say?

 

[Garnacho Libre]

But as I listed, this ain’t actually the case. There’s 5-6 senior players. It’s only really striker this is an issue and that’s because we literally have 1 CF in the entire squad more than Ramsus being young.

Fair enough. I still think, though, we are relying on young players too much. Don't you feel there's too much pressure on the young players? It has to be a factor when it comes to long term development.

I can't give facts on this, but I bet in any successful team.....there might be 3 or 4 young potential players that ease and break into a successful team, rather than that team relying on the young like we are.

I get the age point you made and you are right. Perhaps the older players we have just aren't the right fit or good enough.

 

[jem]

I think I should have worded the post a bit better. I understand how people are reading it by the replies.

Really, I'm just worried these young players we have, whom have good potential, might not fully develop because in my opinion I feel we need a few of the right mature players (to sign) that can be a good impact on the young players.

Basically what I am saying, I think there is a lack of leadership. More often than not, leadership comes from mature and experienced players.

Like you can't see any leadership qualities from the likes of Dalot, Rashford etc... Rashford was barely running at one point. For a mature player, he should be bursting his gut no matter what. If you're a young player like Amad, and you see Rashford (who should be the main man), barely running, what does that say?

I agree with you on Rashford but not on Dalot. For all his faults, I think he does have leadership qualities. It's an interesting question though. I remember Liverpool signing a player like Lallana; clearly not a superstar but you imagine a positive influence in the locker room.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

I agree with you on Rashford but not on Dalot. For all his faults, I think he does have leadership qualities. It's an interesting question though. I remember Liverpool signing a player like Lallana; clearly not a superstar but you imagine a positive influence in the locker room.

Yes exactly!

I don't think I made my point clear enough what I was trying to say. Even Milner, Henderson ..... not superstars, but work horses and leadership. Milner - his training and fitness, probably oldest guy in the team and one of the fittest. Henderson - his leadership was clear on the pitch, talking to media etc.. With that, they had VVD in the back, Allison..... then superstars like Salah, Mane. This comparison can be made for City also. The two teams who have been dominant in England the last 10 years. I know Liverpool won one, but they were up there fighting most seasons. When their young players were breaking into the team, they had to fight to get their place.

For us, our young players are starters and have their place, because we don't have enough quality seasoned players to keep them off the team.

 

[Ekeke]

United have so many problems post Fergie - Glazer's mishandling of the club, the debt, countless managers, wrong signings, over paid contracts, the INEOS takeover, poor results, staff cuts, ticket price increases. The list goes on. United have been just chaos.

The one thing not many people talk about is the lack of options and maturity. Take aside the music and dancing in the dressing room. Maturity in the sense of the age of players United rely on.

When United were successful - and any other successful team - each of the winning teams had options. As fans, I think we should have more understanding of a lot of signings we make.

Rasmus - A young player - comes to the club with the weight of the world on his shoulders. We - and pundits - and the club - expected him to have all the answers when it comes to goalscoring.

When Rooney was signed - although he was without a doubt a special player - United have so many forward options that if Rooney didn't take off right away, he had time to ease into the team and earn his place. We had Ruud, Forlan, Ole, Saha. Mostly all seasoned players. Players that have played in the PL for quite some time and have had success in a winning culture.

Rasmus - runs and runs and gets frustrated with a lack of service. When he does get service and because he is frustrated - his mental state isn't what it should be. Rasmus is just an example.

The same can be said for Mainoo - we should not be relying on him to start. Garnacho - we should not be relying on him also. Whatever about Garnacho now after playing a few seasons - we should never have relied on him when he first broke into the team - When Ronaldo came - we had Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Neville to keep him in line. Who does Garnacho have to keep him in line? Perhaps Bruno does things like this, but there's very few seasoned and mature players who can keep these young players focused and in line. Rashford by now - should be one of those mature players - but he never had a player keep him in line when he was younger - so why would he do it to the younger players now? Cause it wasn't engrained in him. He never fully matured and reached his potential as a player.

In the summer, I think United need to sign a few seasoned players that can really benefit the younger players. I think that should be a priority.

You're absolutely right, however the comparisons are still a bit hard to see.

You're right Rooney could have taken time to get going but he didnt. He was miles ahead of Hojlund and always looked to have some special qualities even if he wasnt as consistent, at Everton for example it was flashes. Hojlund looks quite average for a forward with everything - perhaps good finishing when he does get himself the chance, but thats also fairly average for a striker. Rooney and Ronaldo both were good from the start in the league, in the champions league they didnt score for a while. Thats where I think you could make a great comparison. While they hadnt scored yet we signed Henrik Larsson and he got a few goals in the champions leaugue as they started to get going with goals and then never looked back.

Mainoo is a very complicated one because of the nature of being a central midfielder. There are so many areas you can excel or be weak in. And different managers want different things. They can also be very different from what posters want. Good examples are Rashford in previous seasons always being in the team and even when Amorim came in and it looked like he didnt fit any of the positions ideally, he was still in the team for a while giving him a chance. But then Amorim had quite a clear message that he expected more and dropped him completely and while, its not 100% clear that he meant tracking back and helping the team without the ball rather than perhaps how he engaged with his teammates on and off the pitch, or that he needed better end product, it feels almost certain that not tracking back enough is at least part of what he meant.

Back to my main point about Mainoo. He started the season very well as a ball winner making a big improvement on his ball winning numbers last season. Unfortunately when he had the ball he chose to dribble his way out of most situations rather than letting the ball do the work by keeping the ball moving with passes. The dribbling had mixed success, sometimes it was a good option and he had a good bit of play and then at other times he'd try and dribble 10 yards out from his own box and would be tackled. That part and being more willing to pass the ball and show a wider range of passing needed refinement. But as a ball winning midfielder of 19 years of age he was doing well.

Not many posters felt that way because they rejected the work he was doing. They didnt want him to be a ball winner. So that was a little bit sad. Now obviously Mainoo isnt here reading this, but its still a bit frustrating to see a young player who is working hard to do something and just because someone else thinks they should be a different type of player than that it doesnt matter. Then he came back from injury and was perhaps a bit more reluctant to get stuck in. He had a run of games where that ball winning side he had shown in the opening months of the season wasnt there anymore. But he was doing okay with the ball. By the Liverpool and Arsenal games he was back to winning the ball a good amount so again, good for a ball winner at 19

Then he was tried as a #10 against Basel and did well there, but not well in the next game against Palace where we had him up front for some reason

There is also the overall situation of our midfield. While Mainoo is developing in his own way and doing well for a 19 year old, we also signed a great ball winning DM in Ugarte and this season Casemiro has gone back to some great numbers for ball winning. So even if he's doing well as a ball winner for a 19 year old, its hard to beat the numbers Ugarte and Casemiro have of winning the ball. They are 2 of the best in euorpe at it this season. So how is any 19 year old going to beat them? And in numbers, none of them do. So really this is a good example at work of what your point is. Ugarte and Casemiro are more experienced players doing their ball winning jobs well so Mainoo isnt relied upon. Unfortunately it does mean he isnt playing much but I'm sure he's learning a lot from playing with them which will be good for hid development moving forward.

The Garnacho one is yes we have Bruno who can help him understand that #10 position, but most of our players are still trying to get to grips with it themselves because of the new formation. Amad is learning but his talent has shown through and hes been able to make a difference in that position even if he has loads to improve on as a #10. Eriksen has had a couple of good games but also plenty of average ones which is dissappointing for someone of his experience. Zirkzee has mostly been poor there. So it mostly feels like its just Bruno who can help Garnacho understand his role, but they're going to play it quite differently with Garnacho wanting to run, carry the ball and use his speed. And because we need 2 10s and we only had 1 Bruno, its another position we could use some maturity and experience in. At the moment I'd like either Damsgaard or Mbuemo from Brentford to be a target. I think Damsgaard could double up as a #10 but also in the CM positions and Mbuemo would instead be a bigger goal threat from the #10 position making runs beyond Zirkzee if he was up front and Bruno in the other #10.

 

[KingEric04]

This is the conscious decision by Ineos though, and it is a good move in my opinion. In a perfect world, of course there would have been more forward planning by the Glazers that would require having some kind of ability to plan in the first place.

Keep buying 18-22 year olds + keep building. We have enough seasoned players for the short term, De Ligt, Maz, Dalot, Bruno, Onana, Martinez will all be here next season, they're all mid twenties or older, that's almost half a team of arguable starters. That's not including guys like Case or Rashford who might still be around.

It's all about signing the young, high potential guys and then you either strike lucky or you develop them enough to still sell them for good money. No more older guys on the tail end of their careers, not until we're in a position to cherry pick - for example, let's say in two seasons we're right back at the elite table but we need a striker, then you can splurge on a big name, a Kane or Lewa equivalent maybe who is late twenties early thirties. But otherwise, more Dorgus.

We need to buy a quality striker this season. We don't have time to wait. There is Osimhen and Gykores on the market at the moment. They're in their best years and they'll guarantee you 20+ goals in the next couple of seasons.

You can't eternally buy "young" players. We need signings of people who are in their prime or just entering their prime. We need to reach top 4 (5) next season and hopefully try to challenge for the biggest titles in a couple of years.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Yes exactly!

I don't think I made my point clear enough what I was trying to say. Even Milner, Henderson ..... not superstars, but work horses and leadership. Milner - his training and fitness, probably oldest guy in the team and one of the fittest. Henderson - his leadership was clear on the pitch, talking to media etc.. With that, they had VVD in the back, Allison..... then superstars like Salah, Mane. This comparison can be made for City also. The two teams who have been dominant in England the last 10 years. I know Liverpool won one, but they were up there fighting most seasons. When their young players were breaking into the team, they had to fight to get their place.

For us, our young players are starters and have their place, because we don't have enough quality seasoned players to keep them off the team.

Liverpool signed Henderson when he was 21-22 or something, he matured and became a leader there.

I don't necessarily disagree with the overall sentiment, but I'm not overly concerned. Standards and culture should ultimately come from the manager, and hopefully we are now doing a better job of recruiting serious, professional players. I feel somewhat optimistic that this is the case.

 

[jem]

Liverpool signed Henderson when he was 21-22 or something, he matured and became a leader there.

I don't necessarily disagree with the overall sentiment, but I'm not overly concerned. Standards and culture should ultimately come from the manager, and hopefully we are now doing a better job of recruiting serious, professional players. I feel somewhat optimistic that this is the case.

Perhaps Newcastle provides a good example. The likes of Trippier coming in and providing knowledge and experience can only be a good thing I imagine (perhaps any resident Newcastle fans can offer some insight on this.)

 

[tomaldinho1]

We need to buy a quality striker this season. We don't have time to wait. There is Osimhen and Gykores on the market at the moment. They're in their best years and they'll guarantee you 20+ goals in the next couple of seasons.

You can't eternally buy "young" players. We need signings of people who are in their prime or just entering their prime. We need to reach top 4 (5) next season and hopefully try to challenge for the biggest titles in a couple of years.

How will either guarantee 20+ goals a season?

 

[Garnacho Libre]

You're absolutely right, however the comparisons are still a bit hard to see.

You're right Rooney could have taken time to get going but he didnt. He was miles ahead of Hojlund and always looked to have some special qualities even if he wasnt as consistent, at Everton for example it was flashes. Hojlund looks quite average for a forward with everything - perhaps good finishing when he does get himself the chance, but thats also fairly average for a striker. Rooney and Ronaldo both were good from the start in the league, in the champions league they didnt score for a while. Thats where I think you could make a great comparison. While they hadnt scored yet we signed Henrik Larsson and he got a few goals in the champions leaugue as they started to get going with goals and then never looked back.

Mainoo is a very complicated one because of the nature of being a central midfielder. There are so many areas you can excel or be weak in. And different managers want different things. They can also be very different from what posters want. Good examples are Rashford in previous seasons always being in the team and even when Amorim came in and it looked like he didnt fit any of the positions ideally, he was still in the team for a while giving him a chance. But then Amorim had quite a clear message that he expected more and dropped him completely and while, its not 100% clear that he meant tracking back and helping the team without the ball rather than perhaps how he engaged with his teammates on and off the pitch, or that he needed better end product, it feels almost certain that not tracking back enough is at least part of what he meant.

Back to my main point about Mainoo. He started the season very well as a ball winner making a big improvement on his ball winning numbers last season. Unfortunately when he had the ball he chose to dribble his way out of most situations rather than letting the ball do the work by keeping the ball moving with passes. The dribbling had mixed success, sometimes it was a good option and he had a good bit of play and then at other times he'd try and dribble 10 yards out from his own box and would be tackled. That part and being more willing to pass the ball and show a wider range of passing needed refinement. But as a ball winning midfielder of 19 years of age he was doing well.

Not many posters felt that way because they rejected the work he was doing. They didnt want him to be a ball winner. So that was a little bit sad. Now obviously Mainoo isnt here reading this, but its still a bit frustrating to see a young player who is working hard to do something and just because someone else thinks they should be a different type of player than that it doesnt matter. Then he came back from injury and was perhaps a bit more reluctant to get stuck in. He had a run of games where that ball winning side he had shown in the opening months of the season wasnt there anymore. But he was doing okay with the ball. By the Liverpool and Arsenal games he was back to winning the ball a good amount so again, good for a ball winner at 19

Then he was tried as a #10 against Basel and did well there, but not well in the next game against Palace where we had him up front for some reason

There is also the overall situation of our midfield. While Mainoo is developing in his own way and doing well for a 19 year old, we also signed a great ball winning DM in Ugarte and this season Casemiro has gone back to some great numbers for ball winning. So even if he's doing well as a ball winner for a 19 year old, its hard to beat the numbers Ugarte and Casemiro have of winning the ball. They are 2 of the best in euorpe at it this season. So how is any 19 year old going to beat them? And in numbers, none of them do. So really this is a good example at work of what your point is. Ugarte and Casemiro are more experienced players doing their ball winning jobs well so Mainoo isnt relied upon. Unfortunately it does mean he isnt playing much but I'm sure he's learning a lot from playing with them which will be good for hid development moving forward.

The Garnacho one is yes we have Bruno who can help him understand that #10 position, but most of our players are still trying to get to grips with it themselves because of the new formation. Amad is learning but his talent has shown through and hes been able to make a difference in that position even if he has loads to improve on as a #10. Eriksen has had a couple of good games but also plenty of average ones which is dissappointing for someone of his experience. Zirkzee has mostly been poor there. So it mostly feels like its just Bruno who can help Garnacho understand his role, but they're going to play it quite differently with Garnacho wanting to run, carry the ball and use his speed. And because we need 2 10s and we only had 1 Bruno, its another position we could use some maturity and experience in. At the moment I'd like either Damsgaard or Mbuemo from Brentford to be a target. I think Damsgaard could double up as a #10 but also in the CM positions and Mbuemo would instead be a bigger goal threat from the #10 position making runs beyond Zirkzee if he was up front and Bruno in the other #10.

Yes and that's the key point with Rooney - if he needed time we had options and now we don't. I agree as of now, Rasmus doesn't look like he can be world class. I do think, he has ability to be a very good player and that's what worries me relying on him so much now, that he might not develop with us. I understand - I said in a previous comment I didn't fully make my point clear and I see how it's being understood by people. Rooney and Ronaldo were just special talents. Rooney was pretty much a fully developed player by 19/20. Ronaldo's attitude and work ethic, well we know how that turned out. I remember vividly, at Old Trafford in 2005, Gary Neville directing and shouting at a young Cristiano. Across from him, Keane, Schools. Now look at us. I feel stuff like that is desperately needed of more. Not not many mature players now guide our young players like they should. That's just what we saw on the pitch - it's more important at the training ground where stuff gets instilled into them.

That's a good point on Mainoo. Ten Hag might have wanted one thing from him and Ruben might want another. Regardless of that, certain fundamentals and attitudes should be around him.

Do you think the question of who Mainoo plays with around him is vital for his success? This is another problem - the manager can suit having someone who benefits Mainoo but it draws another tactical problem on another part of the pitch. That's where it gets complicated IMO. You fix and improve one tactical decision then go backwards on another part of the pitch tactically.

Honestly, I understand what you are saying about making my point. On here is different to having a convo with someone in person - you have to be absolutely clear with your point so everyone understands exactly what you are trying to say.

Personally, I think the new formation is slowly starting to work. I don't know how well these group of players can do with it but at least it is a start and the club going forward, has a clear identity with formation and style of play they want.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

Liverpool signed Henderson when he was 21-22 or something, he matured and became a leader there.

I don't necessarily disagree with the overall sentiment, but I'm not overly concerned. Standards and culture should ultimately come from the manager, and hopefully we are now doing a better job of recruiting serious, professional players. I feel somewhat optimistic that this is the case.

I just think it's a talking point that is important but not many people talk about. It gets drowned out by the rest of the chaos, which has been a lot!

Yes, hopefully we are. We will get there someday!!

 

[NZT-One]

I think, the point isn't about "get young players or get experienced players". Thats too simple. We have to differentiate between professional experience and physical/technical level. Rashford was experienced when he was just 21 since he knew how it was to play for a big club, in a high pressure environment. A player like Casemiro might be a seasoned professional, but he isn't at the physical level that would be described as peak. If we want to focus on very young players, thats fine but then we simply have to give them time to develope which means actual results can't be the most important thing for a while. The talents we bring in these days suffer due to a non existing backbone of experienced players that are at the peak of their technical and physical levels. Those players should Rashford, Antony, Sancho, Antony, Maguire, Dalot, Shaw and Mount. But for multiple reasons they aren't fulfilling that role. So there is a vacuum. Players like Casemiro or Eriksen shouldn't even be listed because they have been relied on for way too long at this point. We have to make sure to add delevop such a backbone as soon as possible. And my personal take is, only adding 18-22 year olds is a risky strategy. I think, we have to bring in experienced professionals at the peak (or close before) their peak physically to finally stop getting outworked and outfought out there. But given the limited funds, we can't pick from the creme de la creme, we have to find those players even when they aren't the ones that all the big clubs are fighting for. I would try to close that imminent gap this summer to improve the environment for the young players we already have and then go from there.

Liverpool signed Henderson when he was 21-22 or something, he matured and became a leader there.

I don't necessarily disagree with the overall sentiment, but I'm not overly concerned. Standards and culture should ultimately come from the manager, and hopefully we are now doing a better job of recruiting serious, professional players. I feel somewhat optimistic that this is the case.

This has to be the mindset we have to get away from as soon as possible. Continuety is really important but it has to come from a different place than the manager given that he is the weakest part and has the highest probability to get sacked. We have to make sure, we have an element of continuety higher than the manager AND in probably slightly different aspects in the team as well. We have to develop a backbone of players, that can be relied upon to deliver good to very performances on a regular basis. We sucked hard and fell into a hole just when SAF left. Continuety went out of the window as he was that element for such a long time. And he made sure, that he always had a strong backbone within the team. Thats where we have to get to but that will take time because for this to emerge, you need trust and confidence and that level of confidence can only come from good performances and good results.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Fair enough. I still think, though, we are relying on young players too much. Don't you feel there's too much pressure on the young players? It has to be a factor when it comes to long term development.

I can't give facts on this, but I bet in any successful team.....there might be 3 or 4 young potential players that ease and break into a successful team, rather than that team relying on the young like we are.

I get the age point you made and you are right. Perhaps the older players we have just aren't the right fit or good enough.

I suspect this is more about simply how players are perceived. Ask this question in ETH's first year pre Carabao win and people would have been saying we have some of the best players in the league in certain positions.

If we agree players peak around 25-30 maybe (?) then the optimal team is close to what you say above where you have mostly peak age players and maybe one or two younger guys coming through. The issue is are we going to be able to spend big money to build that out as we did before signings guys like Case, Varane, ADM, Lukaku etc. (think of their reputations pre United not post) I would think not. So really this is the alternative, you accept you won't win for 2-3 years at least, and you buy younger players + then you have a core of 21-25 year olds around the time Ineos think we can start to challenge. I'm not against us picking up De Ligt/Maz types - cheap mid twenties - but they were quite unique in their pricing, I think we'll see many more Dorgu like signings.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

I suspect this is more about simply how players are perceived. Ask this question in ETH's first year pre Carabao win and people would have been saying we have some of the best players in the league in certain positions.

If we agree players peak around 25-30 maybe (?) then the optimal team is close to what you say above where you have mostly peak age players and maybe one or two younger guys coming through. The issue is are we going to be able to spend big money to build that out as we did before signings guys like Case, Varane, ADM, Lukaku etc. (think of their reputations pre United not post) I would think not. So really this is the alternative, you accept you won't win for 2-3 years at least, and you buy younger players + then you have a core of 21-25 year olds around the time Ineos think we can start to challenge. I'm not against us picking up De Ligt/Maz types - cheap mid twenties - but they were quite unique in their pricing, I think we'll see many more Dorgu like signings.

Even if we did (have some people who said we have some of the best players in the league in certain positions), it coincides into my point about a lack of maturity - so if we did have some of the best players in league in certain positions then why aren't they now? That to me is either a change in style of play or they didn't progress. Rashford is the perfect example - a couple of unbelievable seasons here and there then he goes backwards. Ronaldo was there for a period and he couldn't get through to him. I think Rashford struggles mentally and that's something himself he has to sort out. But his attitude on the pitch when he was guaranteed a starter, was wrong. He didn't cover his yards. Why didn't 3 or 4 players scream at him? Maybe one did. But in a good team, you have 3 or 4 players who will scream at you for not running or being out of position or whatever problem occurs.

Absolutely, 100 percent agree on most occasions a player peaks 25-30. So our young players now, they might not reach their peak because of my point. Casemiro - he does well sometimes but he's not a player we can rely on every week. Varane - unfortunately he had injury problems. ADM - BROKE MY HEART! He was my dream signing. PL football just wasn't for him IMO. This is all recruitment and in hindsight the wrong signings. I don't have the answers on who the right mature signings should be.

I would accept not winning for 2 or 3 years to build a young squad, I am just afraid with the lack of leadership and discipline the right mature players can offer - the young players won't reach their potential. As I said, every winning team - has a few young stars with potential but they have mature and seasoned players pushing them. If we have 5 young players and not enough mature players pushing them, then they won't get to the level they could get to.

I think you are right - I think they are and will focus on young players and I just hope it works out. United have always believed in the youth but there's always been plenty of the right mature players there keeping them in line.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Even if we did (have some people who said we have some of the best players in the league in certain positions), it coincides into my point about a lack of maturity - so if we did have some of the best players in league in certain positions then why aren't they now? That to me is either a change in style of play or they didn't progress. Rashford is the perfect example - a couple of unbelievable seasons here and there then he goes backwards. Ronaldo was there for a period and he couldn't get through to him. I think Rashford struggles mentally and that's something himself he has to sort out. But his attitude on the pitch when he was guaranteed a starter, was wrong. He didn't cover his yards. Why didn't 3 or 4 players scream at him? Maybe one did. But in a good team, you have 3 or 4 players who will scream at you for not running or being out of position or whatever problem occurs.

Absolutely, 100 percent agree on most occasions a player peaks 25-30. So our young players now, they might not reach their peak because of my point. Casemiro - he does well sometimes but he's not a player we can rely on every week. Varane - unfortunately he had injury problems. ADM - BROKE MY HEART! He was my dream signing. PL football just wasn't for him IMO. This is all recruitment and in hindsight the wrong signings. I don't have the answers on who the right mature signings should be.

I would accept not winning for 2 or 3 years to build a young squad, I am just afraid with the lack of leadership and discipline the right mature players can offer - the young players won't reach their potential. As I said, every winning team - has a few young stars with potential but they have mature and seasoned players pushing them. If we have 5 young players and not enough mature players pushing them, then they won't get to the level they could get to.

I think you are right - I think they are and will focus on young players and I just hope it works out. United have always believed in the youth but there's always been plenty of the right mature players there keeping them in line.

A change of style has happened but I think more this is to do with players desire to win vs their age/maturity. Sad as it might be, the fact United have gone through a period of 10+ years post winning major trophies and yet, until very recently, players were still coming here on colossal wages and being rewarded/celebrated for not winning likely gradually wore away at the winning dressing room atmosphere that existed before it. Rashford is a product of his time, a talented player who grew up in a direct counter system and is still effective in that system, he's also, I think it's fair to say as you mention, had mental issues coping with the fame, abuse, pressure etc. The ex United player presence in the media is also far from helpful for these guys.

I think the current team has some leaders in it amongst the young(ish) names; Ugarte, Martinez, De Ligt seem very competitive/aggressive and people who can inspire through being combative, plus this period of dog's abuse guys like Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Dalot, Onana etc. should strengthen the bonds within the team of those who stay. The difference between 13th and 5th in my opinion is super slim, we could have a great end to the season and people's perceptions will shift again. With a good transfer window you never know.

Agree on fideo, our last world class player. We got a glimpse of how great he was, then it just fell apart.

 

[KingEric04]

How will either guarantee 20+ goals a season?

Gykores is one of the best strikers in Europe and Amorim managed him. What's this obsession with getting super young players?! We are not a youth recruitment center. We want results and you won't get results with buying unproven 19 year olds.

Sancho failed, Hojlund failed, Zirkzee failed, Antony failed. It's clear that this strategy doesn't really work. Look at Chelsea and how dysfunctional they are. We bought Mazraoui, De Light and Ugarte and they are in mid 20s. Gykores is 26 and we need a new GK and RWB and one more midfielder.

We already have more than enough of these young "prospects". Dorgu is already much better than Hojlund or Garnacho. If we get 4 or 5 new signings, and clear out the deadwood, I think that we should be fighting for top 4 next season.

 

[tenpoless]

Who is dancing in the dressing room?

Mount

 

[tomaldinho1]

Gykores is one of the best strikers in Europe and Amorim managed him. What's this obsession with getting super young players?! We are not a youth recruitment center. We want results and you won't get results with buying unproven 19 year olds.

Sancho failed, Hojlund failed, Zirkzee failed, Antony failed. It's clear that this strategy doesn't really work. Look at Chelsea and how dysfunctional they are. We bought Mazraoui, De Light and Ugarte and they are in mid 20s. Gykores is 26 and we need a new GK and RWB and one more midfielder.

We already have more than enough of these young "prospects". Dorgu is already much better than Hojlund or Garnacho. If we get 4 or 5 new signings, and clear out the deadwood, I think that we should be fighting for top 4 next season.

Is he? Our data points are the Championship, Liga NOS (Nunez being the most recent player who hit insane numbers there) and most people seem to be basing their liking of him off a single CL game versus City in the run where City were losing to everyone. He's about to turn 27 and would cost what £60m, £70m?

I love how two current players have already 'failed', good to know you aren't a reactive poster. Dorgu is 'better' than Garnacho/Hojlund - two players who have both had good seasons here and play completely different positions - and yet you don't want more Dorgus?

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Back when Lingard and Rashford a few years back after losses, it was reported back at the time. I said that in terms of the lack of maturity post Fergie - that shouldn't be happening after losses. That's not a winning culture.

Didn't this bit of criticism come from Rooney who only played with Rashford for what 18 months? It's a different generation of players. This isn't the reason why we've been doing ahit.

As much as I loved the guy though, him criticising the players for dancing after a defeat has always made me laugh. This was player that never looked after himself in his later years. Maybe he should have led by example rather than going out on the piss all the time (allegedly).

It was interesting that Pogba (who was apparently unprofessional) got on so well with Zlatan (who was seen to be the leader at that time).

Liverpool signed Henderson when he was 21-22 or something, he matured and became a leader there.

I don't necessarily disagree with the overall sentiment, but I'm not overly concerned. Standards and culture should ultimately come from the manager, and hopefully we are now doing a better job of recruiting serious, professional players. I feel somewhat optimistic that this is the case.

Your second point is interesting. The general consensus around Henderson pre 2015 was that he wasn't really good enough.

He became a key player during Klopp’s time. That culture and strategy came from the manager. This is ultimately what we need.

 

[Urescoredatanfield]

Are we are all guilty of a form of nostalgia, yearning for a time when we had a legion of leaders who displayed not only an abundance of skill, but a "never say die" attitude. Bruce, Pallister, Robson, Donaghy, McClair, Hughes, Ince, all these players(with the exception of Robson brought in by SAF) were leaders who had a huge influence on any new player coming in, and then in came Scholes, Nevilles,Beckham etc.(who had been completely indoctrinated into the ethos of the club and had Eric et al to nurture them. Ferguson knew that to play for United DEMANDED a special type of player, one who would not crumble when wearing the shirt, which appears to have vanished with successive managers post Ferguson. Apparently they're a different breed of player now, I do believe that money is a prime incentive for some players (we appear to have/had more than our fair share of these), or is/was the shirt to heavy for them? Klopp managed to find the correct players at Anfield without paying them excessive salaries and develop an amazing work ethic with success. But here's hoping our present Manager will turn it round, Dorgu and Heaven, fingers crossed, look to be a promising start. "Mighty oaks from tiny acorns grow"...here's hoping.

 

[sullydnl]

If the goal was to be as good as possible next season then we should sign older players. But it isn't, because that's not how you successfully build a team.

The actual goal is to have a title-challenging side a few years from now that is just hitting its collective prime years at that point. Which means the team should be relatively callow and immature next season.

That doesn't mean signings have to be that young, as there's a big difference between signing 18-21 year olds and 23-25 year olds even if both offer long term upside. But they key thing isn't signing "maturity", it's signing talent.

And even if we imagine we wanted to make the team as mature as possible next season, there's absolutely no guarantee whatseover that signing experienced players is a shortcut to doing that. We've brought in a whole host of experienced "winners" over the years (Ibra, Ronaldo, Casemiro, Varane, etc) and if anything they were impacted by the culture at the club more than the other way around. You can't artificially buy in a winning culture, you need to build it over time.

 

[Brightonian]

You can't just buy in maturity and winning culture. It needs to build in the squad. Older players with a winning record who come in from elsewhere (e.g. Casemiro) won't immediately have the kind of trust and respect from the youngsters you need to influence dressing room culture. It doesn't just come from being older or having won things. It comes from being older and having won things/been a successful player here. Hence, Bruno, the indisputable 'leader' of this team despite having a lot less silverware than Casemiro.

You don't get this unless you're willing to factor it into your decisions about players. Could we offload Maguire this summer and bring another Ayden Heaven in? Sure, with a bit of luck. We get one extra year of bedding in for a youngster, and they make a more future-proof backup CB than Maguire. Meanwhile, you lose one of the steadiest most seasoned professionals in the dressing room.

People who don't think De Ligt is quite good enough to be our 'forever' option at CCB... are they considering that he is a natural leader, notoriously professional, an obvious future pillar of a strong dressing room culture?

We can't bitch and moan about how we don't have enough leaders but then muppet after hundreds of 22-year-old CBs who might be marginally better options for us one day in the future than the likes of De Ligt. Pick a lane - either we care about character and dressing room culture or we don't.

 

[UpWithRivers]

It amazes me that everyone just wants to buy youth players. You would have thought everyone would have learned their lesson from refusing to buy an experienced striker, which resulted in the sht show of this year. Now, everyone wants to do it again and buy Sesko or Delap, etc. Maturity does not mean Ronaldo, Casemiro etc. But we can't just have children. Ralph already told us to target 24/25 ish players. We should have listened. Sure get a younger player or a slightly older one every now and again but we need some experienced, solid players. Even if our plan is to build for 4 years time it would be a stupid move to just keep throwing youth players in. Look what happened this year. When they go on a downturn, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund etc then not only is our season fkd but they are fkd as well. They cant mature with so much pressure and with no support.
If we buy Sesko, Dibling and Branthwaite we are fkd and I like them all. We would get away with it if the players are Mbappe, Bellingham level but they are miles off.
We are basically acting like Brighton and yeah Brighton have done well, but well for a small club

 

[wolvored]

I think we should concentrate getting players with at least 5 years experience around the 25-27 age group, so they have a good few years to spend at the club and still improve the team and themselves.
Bruno was about 25 I think and although some folks moan about him, he is still our best player.
What we don’t need is 29-30 years olds who won’t improve further and only here for a last big payday. Casemiro being a good example of this. We had one good, not great season out of him and we can’t shift him now.
We have enough kids and everyone raves about the youth we have, so why not try them out first instead of buying more?

 

[NZT-One]

If the goal was to be as good as possible next season then we should sign older players. But it isn't, because that's not how you successfully build a team.

The actual goal is to have a title-challenging side a few years from now that is just hitting its collective prime years at that point. Which means the team should be relatively callow and immature next season.

That doesn't mean signings have to be that young, as there's a big difference between signing 18-21 year olds and 23-25 year olds even if both offer long term upside. But they key thing isn't signing "maturity", it's signing talent.

And even if we imagine we wanted to make the team as mature as possible next season, there's absolutely no guarantee whatseover that signing experienced players is a shortcut to doing that. We've brought in a whole host of experienced "winners" over the years (Ibra, Ronaldo, Casemiro, Varane, etc) and if anything they were impacted by the culture at the club more than the other way around. You can't artificially buy in a winning culture, you need to build it over time.

I agree with the overall point but the last paragraph mixes a few things up in my eyes. When Ibra, Ronaldo, Casemiro or Varane moved to United, all those moves were considered "their last big contracts". None of them was seen as bringing in somebody in their peak to have an instant contributor. Obviously, I agree they were proven winners and experienced professionals. But being on the brink phyically and coming to a league where physicality is a big factor was always going to limit their contribution and their sustainability. We should use them as some form of "ok we tried going for big names/experienced winners, didn't work, do the opposite" because this isn't what people mean when they ask for such players.

The overall point makes sense of course, now is the time to prepare a team that is going to challenge in 2 or 3 years, but squeezing too many inexperienced players in will make the environment more unstable. This is why I think we have to bring in experienced players in the sense of being professional football players for at least a couple of years, best case be familiar with high pressure environments, best case being familiar with the league, being at the peak of their physical powers and are expected to be there for another couple of years.Obviously, if we want to combine that with elite this or elite that, we are talking prices we can't pay, so I wouldn't look in the top shelf but one or two below. Add a little stability like with the Mazraoui deal for example to make it easier for the younger team members. Because we know what will happen - if we run into another bad run of results, pressure will rise once again and given that our experience with continuety is problematic, it wouldn't be ideal to switch managers as soon as we reach the next hurdle. And the more young players we have, I'd say the more like such periods are goint to come.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

Didn't this bit of criticism come from Rooney who only played with Rashford for what 18 months? It's a different generation of players. This isn't the reason why we've been doing ahit.

As much as I loved the guy though, him criticising the players for dancing after a defeat has always made me laugh. This was player that never looked after himself in his later years. Maybe he should have led by example rather than going out on the piss all the time (allegedly).

It was interesting that Pogba (who was apparently unprofessional) got on so well with Zlatan (who was seen to be the leader at that time).

Your second point is interesting. The general consensus around Henderson pre 2015 was that he wasn't really good enough.

He became a key player during Klopp’s time. That culture and strategy came from the manager. This is ultimately what we need.

Yes it came from Rooney but I doubt he was lying. The different generation thing shouldn't matter with this point - their job is to win and to be professional. Losing a game and dancing afterwards is not professional. That should never be tolerated.

I agree he should have looked after himself better but on the pitch he always gave it his all and did a lot of the dog work. Nowadays, some players in our team think they are too much of a superstar to do the dog work.

Nobody would argue Jordan was world class but professional he was. And I do agree - Klopp got the best out of him no doubt.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

Are we are all guilty of a form of nostalgia, yearning for a time when we had a legion of leaders who displayed not only an abundance of skill, but a "never say die" attitude. Bruce, Pallister, Robson, Donaghy, McClair, Hughes, Ince, all these players(with the exception of Robson brought in by SAF) were leaders who had a huge influence on any new player coming in, and then in came Scholes, Nevilles,Beckham etc.(who had been completely indoctrinated into the ethos of the club and had Eric et al to nurture them. Ferguson knew that to play for United DEMANDED a special type of player, one who would not crumble when wearing the shirt, which appears to have vanished with successive managers post Ferguson. Apparently they're a different breed of player now, I do believe that money is a prime incentive for some players (we appear to have/had more than our fair share of these), or is/was the shirt to heavy for them? Klopp managed to find the correct players at Anfield without paying them excessive salaries and develop an amazing work ethic with success. But here's hoping our present Manager will turn it round, Dorgu and Heaven, fingers crossed, look to be a promising start. "Mighty oaks from tiny acorns grow"...here's hoping.

I don't think this is nostalgia this is more about professionalism. Other big teams have these players where we don't seem to have enough of. I used the past as a known example.

Your quote, I like that! I am hoping that the right environment is there for that to happen. That is what worries me.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

You can't just buy in maturity and winning culture. It needs to build in the squad. Older players with a winning record who come in from elsewhere (e.g. Casemiro) won't immediately have the kind of trust and respect from the youngsters you need to influence dressing room culture. It doesn't just come from being older or having won things. It comes from being older and having won things/been a successful player here. Hence, Bruno, the indisputable 'leader' of this team despite having a lot less silverware than Casemiro.

You don't get this unless you're willing to factor it into your decisions about players. Could we offload Maguire this summer and bring another Ayden Heaven in? Sure, with a bit of luck. We get one extra year of bedding in for a youngster, and they make a more future-proof backup CB than Maguire. Meanwhile, you lose one of the steadiest most seasoned professionals in the dressing room.

People who don't think De Ligt is quite good enough to be our 'forever' option at CCB... are they considering that he is a natural leader, notoriously professional, an obvious future pillar of a strong dressing room culture?

We can't bitch and moan about how we don't have enough leaders but then muppet after hundreds of 22-year-old CBs who might be marginally better options for us one day in the future than the likes of De Ligt. Pick a lane - either we care about character and dressing room culture or we don't.

That's a fair point - it doesn't mean those players aren't out there, though. I do think you make a very valid point.

I don't think we should make that presumption about De Light - I think overall he's done okay. As the players get more used to the system, maybe the whole team will continue to improve.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

It amazes me that everyone just wants to buy youth players. You would have thought everyone would have learned their lesson from refusing to buy an experienced striker, which resulted in the sht show of this year. Now, everyone wants to do it again and buy Sesko or Delap, etc. Maturity does not mean Ronaldo, Casemiro etc. But we can't just have children. Ralph already told us to target 24/25 ish players. We should have listened. Sure get a younger player or a slightly older one every now and again but we need some experienced, solid players. Even if our plan is to build for 4 years time it would be a stupid move to just keep throwing youth players in. Look what happened this year. When they go on a downturn, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund etc then not only is our season fkd but they are fkd as well. They cant mature with so much pressure and with no support.
If we buy Sesko, Dibling and Branthwaite we are fkd and I like them all. We would get away with it if the players are Mbappe, Bellingham level but they are miles off.
We are basically acting like Brighton and yeah Brighton have done well, but well for a small club

I agree- and we buy Sesko or Delap - way too much pressure on them - they might not hit the ground running and back to square one - needing an experienced striker.

I think a lot of people are afraid of buying more Varane's or Casemiro's etc..

 

[MadDogg]

Yes it came from Rooney but I doubt he was lying. The different generation thing shouldn't matter with this point - their job is to win and to be professional. Losing a game and dancing afterwards is not professional. That should never be tolerated.

I agree he should have looked after himself better but on the pitch he always gave it his all and did a lot of the dog work. Nowadays, some players in our team think they are too much of a superstar to do the dog work.

Nobody would argue Jordan was world class but professional he was. And I do agree - Klopp got the best out of him no doubt.

It should be noted that the dancing was the next day at training, not immediately in the dressing room after the loss. It's not ideal, but it's also not as big a deal as people make out. Even Rooney in that same interview said they were doing nothing wrong.

There's a pretty strong argument that it was less unprofessional and a better way to relax than going home and having a few smokes or a few drinks like what Rooney would do.