Fortitude said:
You've proven your point then. They're both going to make it, this is all the evidence anyone needs...
Christ
The kids
- Thread starter kanchelskis14
- Start date
You've proven your point then. They're both going to make it, this is all the evidence anyone needs...
Christ
Fortitude said:
If you're going to argue that there wasn't numerous threads on Spector, after he played a few games at the beginning of last season, saying how he was ready straight away etc, you're lying.
So how comes Rossi is getting games with the 1st squad and the others did not? It doesn't correlate with what you are saying. Blake, Johnson etc were not mentioned extensively by the manager, why? Rossi may even figure in our squad next season, at 19. If he was the same as all the others why is he being given the chance and they were not?Davo said:
You can't tar all reserves with the same brush, which is what you seem desperate to do.
You're not answering questions. You're dodging them. It's a perfectly reasonable ask. Or am I being irrational...Davo said:
Fortitude said:
https://www.redcafe.net/showthread.php?t=92363&highlight=Blake
There you go, first thread I looked in with Blake's name in....claims he'll make it, he's left for peanuts.
There'll be far more gushing praise if you can be arsed to look....I can't.
Show me one comparing Spector to a young Martin Buchan.kanchelskis14 said:
Blake was a superb player, he was better than Rossi. What you dont account for is the fact he broke his fecking leg in half. He didnt make it back.Davo said:
Moron.
Fortitude said:
It appears that Ferguson rates Rossi more than Blake doesn't it? Again this doesn't mean he's going to make it. Fletcher's had loads of opportunities, he's crap
You want to be optimisic, fair play...carry on. But given the fact that I've seen this cycle continue (which you don't believe) I can't see how you can object to my view...
Fortitude said:
So if they did not use the name 'Martin Buchan', the praise is invalid? And who the feck is Buchan anyway, one of the greatest defenders ever?
Davo said:
'kin 'ell Davo. This just proves you're making stuff up. There is no 'gushing praise' in that thread. Certainly not being compared to any United legends either...Chief said:
And I wager it is the same for all the names you mentioned. Which shows there is a distinct difference between yer Evans' and the names you're associating him with...
Fortitude said:
You're being irrational when you try and use loan interest as some sort of evidence that he's going to make it.
Rangers took Vignal on loan, he went into there first team. He was crap
I was going to say that, but didn't want to divert..VanNistelrater said:
VanNistelrater said:
"Better than Rossi"
He must have been amazing then....
Geek
VanNistelrater said:
let's not be dramatic, his leg wasn't 'broken in half'. How do you account for Fletcher's run in the side despite being injured for years at youth level? We even signed Ruud for near enough £20m after a year out anyway.
You should stop posting now.kanchelskis14 said:
Fortitude said:
No is shouldn't. I haven't watched Buchan play, he was before my time. So was Beckenbaur mind, and i've heard of him and watched him play.
Fortitude said:
Looking Busy said:
Like I said, it was the first thread I went into after searching under "Blake"....and straight away there was a claim that he'd make it. You've chosen to ignore this and highlight a far more sensible post...
And where has this "comparison to legends" come from all of a sudden?
You seem to think that Rossi, and now this Evans bloke are the first kids to get rave reviews on here....and claims of future stardom
Davo, I'm saying how can there not be optimism for a kid who breaks into Manchester United's set-up at 19 coming through the ranks and earning his spot? 'kin 'ell. He is not built like Rooney the beast or Ronaldo, he is small and slight. He clearly has the ability, are you saying he does not? He's worked his way out from the reserves to feature for the biggest club in the land, at 19. This does not suggest the lad has a bright future?Davo said:
I'm simply saying that a club the size of Rangers coming in for two kids with the intention of starting them is impressive and reason to be optimistic. Is that wrong? Are Rangers and their 50 odd thousand fans a joke or summat?Davo said:
The thread starters views were quickly brought back to earth, you failed to acknowledge that... I merely highlighted the obvious counter-post. I hardly see Blake being hailed as the second coming..in fact, I see more trepidation there then anything else. Hardly the same as the praise Evans is earning and I am sure that goes for all the other names you listed...if you prove otherwise then I will take your word at face value, but I bet you can't...Davo said:
I believe Rossi and Evans have earned the highest praise, yes, along with David Jones, and rightly so. I'm 90% certain you can't show me anything to the contrary.
Fortitude said:
Not in itself, no. As I've said, loads of players look the business at reserve level. And other players have worked their way through the reserves and failed to make that extra step up.....which is a big step. I agree that Rossi's size doesn't help him, is he going to get much bigger/stronger tho?
I've answered the Rangers point several times now....I don't know why you're still mentioning it
Scored more goals, generally played better and was closer to the first team. Was physically a lot stronger too. If you consider where Rossi is now, on the cusp of the first team, then you can only presume Blake would be there too.Davo said:
"Better than Rossi"
He must have been amazing then....
Geek
You're scared, that's your problem. No one is saying all these are going to make it but you're worried they will. You cant bare to see United fans talk positive about their team or players, which is why you've lurked around this place since it began, posting more than anyone, trying to stifle it. It's tragic to watch.
Some come back from these things better than others. Blake obviously didnt recover properly, because prior to the break he was the top scorer and performing better than any other player who is now being given a chance.kanchelskis14 said:
I think others, Spector for example, have suffered because of the competition for places. Nothing wrong with talking about the kids anyway, especially after a performance as superb as yesterday. Like I said, no one is saying anyone will definitely make it.
Fortitude said:
As I've said several times, loads of players have continually been hyped up on here...and NONE have made it in my time on the Caf. You seem to be under the impression that it's a new thing based on the increased quality of your kids these days....bizarre.
Do you not remember the hype for Spector? He was a very recent example....he's now been sold to Charlton
Evans is a new one on me. It seems he's getting a load of hype based on pre-season games...seems credible
VanNistelrater said:
I'm petrified
This is going to be the time all your kids turn out to be superstars....it's a totally different situation to all the other times I've heard about
Which is why you're in here, adding to your 50,000+ posts...
Our kids are the best in the country, so there is a good chance some will make it. Not sure who or how many yet mind, but then that is enough to make you worried, evidently...
You, like every other rival idiot who adds nothing to this place, dont belong here. Rival fans are banned in here incidently. Go back to the Football Forum.
Our kids are the best in the country, so there is a good chance some will make it. Not sure who or how many yet mind, but then that is enough to make you worried, evidently...
You, like every other rival idiot who adds nothing to this place, dont belong here. Rival fans are banned in here incidently. Go back to the Football Forum.
VanNistelrater said:
I agree, no harm in praising them, after all, i made this thread to do so. Just saying that, as good as they look, not many will make it mind. For a start, our team isn't that old, Rooney and Ronaldo pretty much rule out the possibility of anyone who plays in their roles making it into the first team for years. Then the likes of Carrick, Vidic/ Brown and Rio are all mid twenties themselves, so all of our promising centre halfs won't be in the team anytime soon. Not to mention the fact tat we have young back up already in the shape of Fletcher, O'Shea, Evra etc.
But ulitmately, we're in agreement, we have some promising kids. A shame that we didn't see half of our future first team last night, because they won;t be.
VanNistelrater said:
I'm having a civilised debate with Fortitude about the difficulty faced by youngsters making it to first teams thesedays. Your irrelevant posts are not adding anything to the debate.
If you don't try and make them relevant, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask the mods for you to be banned from this forum..
The point, and the obvious difference between what you're saying and what I have pointed out is that unlike the others you mentioned, Rossi is in the 1st team, is acknowledged by the manager and has a future here as a professional and until he proves otherwise, he is a Manchester United 1st team squad member. That in itself is a great achievement. Half the teams in the league could not provide a United 1st team squad striker, that is a fact. It tells me (at least) that Rossi has talent to break out of the reserves as a striker and enter the big team set-up. How can there be no optimism towards a lad that can do that...at 19?Davo said:
The Rangers point is important because of the age of the lads they want. An 18 year old Centre back? You don't think that is a bit unique? And I said before, you cannot just dismiss these kids as they can only perform against what is in front of them. If Evans goes to Rangers and shines there will you still be dismissing him or what? I'm trying to fathom why you expect me to have a downer on obvious talent. You try to compare them to players who came before (like in that list you provided) but half of that lot never did anything on any tour with the 1st team and they certainly weren't being asked on loan by a team like Rangers... I struggle to see the similarities...
VanNistelrater said:
I must side Davo when i read posts like this. Can any football discussion between a United fand and a Liverpool fan not ascend above this level? Let's just have a mature and reasoned footy debate, which is what was happening amongst myself, Davo and Fortitude before you joined in.
Fortitude said:
Not Rangers again....look, in summary.
- You don't know that Le Guen wants them to be first team players, he may want them as cover
- The fact that someone wants them on loan doesn't mean they're great...loads of kids go out on loan
- Gregory Vignal
Apologies, I've done that annoying quote in your post above...
How do you think Brown got into the first team? What was the process...kanchelskis14 said:
Nonsence, stick your reasoned debate up your arse, it's nothing of the sort. Davo is on a wind up, and United fans discussing amongst themselfs is far more interesting and progressive than anything that comes from rival input.kanchelskis14 said:
He's not going to change his stance, Fortitude isnt going to change his. Even if they did they wont say as such. What's the fecking point?
VanNistelrater said:
Just ignore us then, as opposed to stamping your feet and acting like a girl....
Fortitude said:
Some lads are fortunate that things open up around the first team for them when they are ready. Just that in the scenario of our up and coming CB's, i just feel we won't be selling any of the reguler ones soon, and they are still young. Dilemma for them soon.
He has a long way to go (Rossi) but it seems to me like you want United fans to have a downer on him and convince themselves he won't make it when evidence suggests he is on the way to making it. I honestly don't understand what you expect United fans to think. It is not every day a 19 year old forward breaks into a Manchester United 1st squad. And I keep mentioning Manchester United because we pay a lot of money for strikers, it is an area of the pitch we do not feck about in: Rooney £20m Saha £12m Smith £7m Ole £priceless. We do not pander to any upcoming reserve in this department - this has to suggest Rossi is different, contrary to what you are saying.Davo said:
I can see your point with Rangers. I don't neccessarily agree with it, because Le Guen is going there to win and impress - he is not about to feck that up by taking on kids he thinks aren't up to it - but nevertheless, you can at least back that point up with the Vignal's of the world. You're totally off with comparing one reserve to another however. I seriously doubt any other CB has had the praise Evans has gotten, it suggests he is different.
No. Great young players force themselves into the manager's reckoning. It is not by fortune kids break into a set-up as serious as United's.kanchelskis14 said:
No not us, you.Davo said:
Manchester United fans are fine discussing things on their own, this is what this board is for after all.
Fortitude said:
I don't mind what your feelings are towards Rossi's chances...in the past, I've found it amusing that so many players have been built up, and then failed. But I can't really say I'm that arsed....
I don't agree that the fact that Rossi is a striker makes any difference to his chances. The fact that you've spent big there makes no difference, you'll push a kid towards the first team wherever he plays if you think he's good enough.
Given that I've never heard of Evans till this morning, I can safely say that other CB's have had far higher praise reaped on them...over a far longer period. Spector and Pique being recent examples. Evans seems to be getting praise for a performance in a pre-season game, which has snowballed into him making it...
If he does, or Rossi or anyone else, then fair play....I'll admit I was over-cynical. No one has since I've been here mind....
VanNistelrater said:
This discussion wouldn't have grown if I wasn't here...it would have stopped on page one..
Go away, you're offering nothing...
Davo said:
Evans has been praised highly here for months...
The Rossi point is valid. It hasn't happened before with any of the other names you've mentioned that are forwards (that they broke the 1st team set-up)
There's a difference between cynicism and being reasonable. You effectively dismissed all reserves. That is out of hand.