Everyone who loves their job will always tow the owners’ line … I don’t know why this is used as a stick to beat him with. Why should he sacrifice his career and lifestyle just to please disgruntled United fans?
The John Murtough Era
- Thread starter Trex
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Did you actually see the full quote.
If we are bringing in 5 starting players to our first 11 after this window, something went wrong.
People don't seem to understand how unconventional it is for us to have to spend that way.
My understanding of what he said is pretty simple. He doesn't expect us to NEED to spend like this, especially at one go.
He also mentioned that as a club, we will continue to support ETH.
I think from here on, we are going to focus on signing specific players. Maximum 2 or 3 per window, whilst also getting some depth from our academy.
I think this is partially why this window was so important. We might not be able to get it back down to 50 for a while, but we can significantly reduce that cost by releasing players like Jones. The key issue we have had has been that players earning some of these huge salaries, haven't performed in a way that would lead to additional revenue. We got rid of a lot of deadwood this summer and over time, with the likes of Maguire and Shaw potentially unhappy, we may see more leave.
Thanks. Yes, even if Rangnik’s Götterdämmerung prognosis is set as a schedule, I believe he mentioned 10-12 players and three windows. That means we’re maybe halfway there already with five signings. I think it’s clear Ten Hag has somewhat more trust in his methods and in a few of the players than he has in Rangnik’s input, so I would maybe expect a more normal three signings plus one or two fillers (some youth, a back up keeper) on the mext two windows combined.
Yeah no shit, their dilly dallying and poor planning added an extra 50-70m to this summer's budget. The market in the final week is always a seller's market. We essentially threw future money to cover today's mistakes. We are still criminally mismanaged but the glazers and co can always smooth things out by buying a shiny new toy with the club's money. It's like watching a politician. Suddenly bringing up the mismanagement looks ungrateful. Fix our rickety structure once and for all and end this mismanagement, megasignings, mismanagement loop. Every year is an extra 50-100m fixing some present or past mistake.
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What really riles me about these statements isn't the amount of money, it's how they're speaking about the whole situation and the mindset that shows. It's all about how much money have we spent and how much money are we going to spend, and how the purpose of spending the money is "to support ETH". In other words, we put up a certain amount of money, and then it's the managers job to turn that money into a result. That's still the beginning and end of this club's vision.
What they would have been talking about if this was competent management is things like What is this club's level of ambition, and what will it take to get there, and how do we intend to achieve that? That's what actually should be driving investment, not how big a pot of gold you're prepared to throw at the manager.
What they would have been talking about if this was competent management is things like What is this club's level of ambition, and what will it take to get there, and how do we intend to achieve that? That's what actually should be driving investment, not how big a pot of gold you're prepared to throw at the manager.
Murtough can plan all he wants. At the end of the day if the glazers for example say £50 mill only for transfers, thats what we will spend. Its how he gets value for money that will make him stand out. So for me its how he does in this jan and summer windows that count. If he has scouted and planned with the manager correctly, we dont need to overspend on one player.
This summer was a crazy window with a new manager and Murtoughs first window, without being tied to the meglomaniac Woodwards apron strings Add to the fact there were a lot of players left on free transfers, in the end it was pretty decent.
This summer was a crazy window with a new manager and Murtoughs first window, without being tied to the meglomaniac Woodwards apron strings Add to the fact there were a lot of players left on free transfers, in the end it was pretty decent.
This is what financial reports are all about. The key is in the "financial" part...
Can't believe people still do not get it. This is business. It's ONLY purpose is to create shareholder value.
Im convinced Woodward was the fall guy for joel glazer anyway. Now its Murtough.
There are two types of owners of EPL clubs, the sport washing project (Manchester city, Newcastle united) and the once in it for profit (Manchester united, Liverpool, Arsenal).
That's how it works, you can only hope which ever form they get the right people under them to run the club, I know we have been mismanaged from a sporting point of view the last 10 years but I would like to be optimistic things are getting better now. Either way it is a business to the Glazer and that in itself isn't a crime.
Yes, thank you, I am well aware that this is the financial report we're talking about. Nevertheless, this is the same narrative we're hearing from the club throughout - it is not unique to this context.
And you should probably get this: Not doing well on the pitch over time also erodes shareholder value, both by cutting into income and by requiring huge outlays in an attempt to rectify the situation. Which this financial report, with its record net loss, illustrates.
100%. if you think about it logically, why would the Glazers keep someone as seemingly incompetent as Woodward in place for so long? I fully believe that every single decision has to be signed off by Joel.
Woodward kept his job as the head of a multibillion pound club because he followed the instructions of his bosses to the letter.
Woodward has gone but the club is still making the same mistakes. Nothing changes until those parasites sell up.
It's even worse than that. This summer was reminiscent of the Woodward/Moyes first summer.
Its like all the lessons we might have learned under the Woodward regime were thrown right out of the window
I do not know how people are surprised that we won't spend in the winter, or that this window is not the norm. We just lost more than 100M this fiscal year, of course, that the norm won't be losing over 100M every year, that is not sustainable.
And of course, we need more signings. But needing, and being able to afford them, are completely different things.
And of course, we need more signings. But needing, and being able to afford them, are completely different things.
These people come from the Liz Truss school of economics
If a company director starts going on operational tangents during financial presentations it will show incompetence or worse (hiding facts).
There is a place and time for these kind of topics. The quarterly results and shareholder presentations are not it.
The unplanned money we spent on inflated late window transfers was part of why that figure is that big. It clearly wasn't in their financial projections. They messed up their own projections and have now compromised future windows, all because of their own lack of foresight. It's not an accounting error, it's a footballing one. In the first place 150m if properly planned can do a lot more, especially when you know what the budget is long term. You can't be making value mistakes in a rebuild. They screwed up their due diligence. It's a credible discussion.
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"These kind of topics"? What CEO presents an annual financial report (to say nothing of a financial report recording a very weak result) without mentioning the company's vision going forward? Certainly not Murtough, who addresses that directly, in talking about the club's "investment plan" and what that will mean for future expenditure. I'm not criticising Murtough for what he isn't talking about, I'm criticising him for what he says about the things he does talk about. Which should, if anything, be more vision-focused and less operational than the stuff he is actually saying.
Well when you’re on an earnings call, addressing shareholders, you kind of have to speak in that way. It’s the same for every other PLC.
Murtough can't be blamed for any lack of funds. However he can be blamed for us going in the transfer window completely unprepared which lead to us spending over the odds for ETH's targets. We were also unable to raise significant funds through selling our players either.
Murtough has already proven he's not up to it. The overspending this summer was a result of a lack of direction and strategy. You just don't get the feeling United will win anything substantial while the Glazers and their hierarchy still remain. There's a lack of dilligence that's very transparent from the top.
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt over this past summer's transfer spending. Our scouting department was literally ripped apart just a few months before ETH came, we could not rely on the scout recommendations from before because they were shit so he had to rely on ETH's recommendations instead and so we were fleeced by clubs who knew we were in a mess and desperate. I'm willing to see if he's gotten the scouting/recruitment department in order by the next 1 or 2 transfer windows and the type of players we bring in before judging him properly.
To be fair, we were never going to have a direction and strategy in place for the summer. We pushed out several key figures in the scouting department and Rangnick was a complete and utter catastrophe. Add a new manager into the mix, as well as a new CEO and some senior restructuring not long before, and we didn’t really have a hope. If it’s the same story next summer however, we may as well just give up.
It really is difficult to say wether Murtaugh has done a good or bad job so far, because it depends …
It depends on how early he was given real authority over restructuring the set up including recruitmen and scouting.
It depends on the reasons for why the two scouting tops left when they did.
It depends on how foreseeable Rangnik’s chemistry challenges with the squad could be.
It depends on how early we were able to know wether Ten Hag would be our next manager.
All these things, we reallydon’t know much about, and the answers could rang from Murtaugh having done a great job to him having done a terrible job so far. The answer is likely inbetween, and we’ll not see how it works until after next summer, realistically.
I believe there will a fixed budget set aside between 80-120 million for the next few years. We just need to be smart be get a right profile players. I would look at 2+2, 2 good players who potentially can be XI like Malacia and 2 under 21s players. Scouting definitely needs to be improve, we don't need to spend 60-80 million on players. Malacia is really cheap for the quality he brings (he has probably triple his value). Another 3-4 such players, we would do well.
If he has little authority then he's just a Glazer's pen pusher which makes him as useful as bull's tits. If has authority then he is useless really.
A- Murtough has been here for many many years and had gained a reputation of being Woodward's fixer. He should have had a clear idea what was wrong in the club, who needs to be replaced by whom and he should have acted quickly. The fact that we started the summer transfer windows with two sacked chief scouts stinks of incompetence especially since its already nearly October and we haven't hired anyone yet. The fact that we're still working with the same modus operandi of 2013 (ie the manager providing the names we should sign) is inexcusable
B- The way we handled last season was diabolical. Ole was kept for too long, we then hired an interim manager who had barely managed in the past 10 years and whose style of football was totally different to Ole's only to refuse to buy him any players whatsoever. That's the personification of setting Rangnick and the club to fail.
C- We spent an entire summer chasing a ghost (aka De Jong) which ended with one huge egg on our face. We also overspent on most of our transfers. There's no way that Antony is worth 100m or that a 30 year old Casemiro is worth 60m.
D- Incoming transfers tells part of a story. The other part is outgoing transfers. Those are equally important as it put money back into the coffers for the manager to spend. We failed big time on that regard as well. Garner was sold for peanuts, Henderson was sent on loan which is stupid really and AWB, Maguire and co are still here.
Spending 100m on a winger from the Dutch league and a 60m fee on a 30 year old DM carries consequences. We probably won't be able to spend in January and we won't spend big next summer. That's why United need an experienced DOF who can unearth future stars and can bring some bargains in.
Maybe, maybe not, but I don’t think you’re quite the inside expert you make yourself out to be.
I have zero inside information. I only base my thoughts on what I see with my very eyes, a bit of common sense and my experience working directly under multiple CEOs. For example I refuse to believe that Woodward who allowed the man to grow into the club by first trusting him with huge projects (ex revamping academy recruitment and building the women team) and then by making him DOF would not listen to the guy let alone giving him admistrative power up until he left.Its even sillier to think that a manchester united CEO would engage himself in full Football manager mode . Its not physically possible. Trust me Murtough would not have reached such position at Manchester united if Woodward didn't trust him. Then of course there is the title of Woodward's fixer who was given to him by the media. This guy was close to Woodward's ear and throughout the years he was very involved in decision making
Another piece of proof can be seen when comparing the pre Murtough Dof's time with the post Murtough DOF's time. The same knee jerk reaction, incompetence and the throwing money at the problem reaction is seen.
Exactly.
Murtough hasn't shown any signs that he's anywhere near a halfway decent director of football but you've people praising him for overspending on players late into the transfer window like what Woodward has done consistently and briefing the media on our every transfer business instead of actually working on them.
After looking at his resumé I was dumbfounded on the glowing praise Murtough was being lavished in, especially from well liked posters on here, at the time of his hiring.
Working well within the academy and women's team is a whole different level to the men's team, with all due respect. You're literally talking about giving him majority control in keeping a billion £ company, relevant and competitive, it's a different stratosphere to the academy and women's team.
I've said it before, people are praising him for being literally not Woodward.
There is also the question of how much money we do not make from the sale of academy players another poorly run football department.
14m Compensation for 6months
re: Rangnick being terminated for 14m, I think it's fair to count this decision against Murtough. I'll also blame him for the incoherent transfer window we had this summer. Chased FdJ for far too long, panicked and signed a 30 year old Casemiro for big money + big wages, overpaid for Antony etc. Of course these are still opinions but given some of the midfielders that moved clubs in Jan / Summer we should've done a lot better than sticking Eriksen deep.
Still think we should wait and watch but if we finish 6th or below this season after spending 200m, then Murtough's head has to roll.
I think Arnold did a good job by distancing himself from the recruitment shambles. He'll give Murtough a fair shot but it's time to bring in actual expertise on the recruitment front. Someone from a club that plays positional football and not a total 180 to hunt down someone from Germany.
I love the fact we've paid Rangnick 14m but people on here were telling me the 2-year thing was only an option.
Now money says it wasn't and they look like fools (again). Although to be fair part of the 14m is probably for the NDA Ralf would have signed not to publicly embarrass the rets even more.
Now money says it wasn't and they look like fools (again). Although to be fair part of the 14m is probably for the NDA Ralf would have signed not to publicly embarrass the rets even more.
Not looking so pretty that, given that the cancelling of the consultancy was ostensibly by mutual consent, and motivated by Rangnick's responsibilities as Austria manager. This makes it look at lot more like United buying him out from that role.
In July 2021 Rangnick signed a 3 year deal to be manager of sports and development for Lokomotiv Moscow. It is reasonable to assume that he was being paid a significant salary after his work at Red Bull. In order for United to tempt him to join us for 7 months as temporary manager, we would have had to offer him more than the amount that he would expect to make in the rest of his LM deal.
£14m seems high but Rangnick was never going to be a cheap option, given his contract situation at Lokomotiv. In hindsight, it was a poor decision from Murtough as Rangnick was unable to bring in his first choice support staff, not allowed to make signings and his style of football was a poor match for the squad.
Murtough and Ten Hag should be forced to adjust to the situation they created by over-spending this summer. Bring in cheap signings and sell players that are unlikely to get much game time.
£14m seems high but Rangnick was never going to be a cheap option, given his contract situation at Lokomotiv. In hindsight, it was a poor decision from Murtough as Rangnick was unable to bring in his first choice support staff, not allowed to make signings and his style of football was a poor match for the squad.
Murtough and Ten Hag should be forced to adjust to the situation they created by over-spending this summer. Bring in cheap signings and sell players that are unlikely to get much game time.
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What is this bullshit? It is not Ten Hag's responsibility to spend the club's money. He was promised signings and the club failed to execute.
There are enough people at the club being paid too much money to fail for our manager to have responsibility of transfers as well
This is going to be easier than what it looks like when you consider the players whose contracts are set to expire. Rashford, Ronaldo, De Gea, Jones, Shaw, Dalot and Fred expire in 2023. That should automatically save about £55m in wages bringing down wages to £330m.
Potential sales of players in the last year of their contracts (2024) Maguire, AWB, Martial and Lindelöf, may bring in further £££.
Murtough is to his job as Harry Maguire is to defending...
Yet another misread that has cost the club millions. Accumulating mistakes that would wipe out the average team's summer budget.
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