You're misinformed. Ajax wanted 80m, not 100m. It became 100m when we waited for the last month to come instead of paying 75m in June but we didn't want to.
The John Murtough Era
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Whether that is true or not cannot be confirmed - if we bid €80m, they would probably still want more. Ajax were always in the position of power in these negotiations. I don't think it would have ended there.
How do you think the transfer window could be different?
FDJ "didn't" want to come. ETH underestimated how bad we were when he joined us, and took is time assessing the squad to provide feedback on intended system of play. We got Malacia, Eriksen and a backup keeper for next to nothing. We overpaid for a few players because ETH wanted specific type of players who the clubs didn't want to sell. If Antony was 50m, Casemiro and Martinez were 35m, we'd be raving about how shrewd we've been in the market. 70m extra we paid (or 30% extra) was basically for our mistakes of the past and not the present.
Let's face it, we aren't going to go from Maguire dribbling in the 6 yard box to City/Liverpool level of dominance overnight. There will be a few mistakes along the way and adjustments to be made. As long as these are quick, we should be happy. Frankly, I'm happy Murtough was able to convince the Glazers to part with money needed to rebuild the squad.
Based on this, we never bid for FdJ, so it's all good?
The lengths people go to deny reality...
It was always going to be higher as you get to the end of the window, and especially after a couple of bad defeats so that the whole world could see how desperate we were. Pathetic as ever from the club
Both Whitwell and Ornstein said that we could have gotten Antony cheaper earlier in the window. We baulked at the price to come back weeks later to be told the price has gone up.
Find where I said that should have been the starting bid? All I'm saying is that according to Ajax sources the price was much more reasonable when we decided to pull out. Those same sources then right after said the price was now raised to 100m which turned out to be true.
So I'm believing those same sources that Antony was available for much cheaper if we'd negotiated/paid the price in June.
This is actually what people said months ago. Waiting on the resolution of a highly complicated labour dispute was foolish. The wage issue was as much a problem 3 months ago as it is today. Having an agreement with the agent wasn't going to resolve it. This was peak naivety. It's like he just woke up to what we've been saying along.
It was even arrogance to think they had to sell us their player because of their financial issues. We just totally misread leverage into everything and acted like those were enough to make waiting all summer a good idea.
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Typical Glazer negotiation tactics. Jack-off Joel’s philosophy - why buy at a lower price when you can be held to ransom and panic buy later. You’d think that after 10 years of signing off on these sorts of deals, this moron would have gotten a clue.
Man would have been sacked at any other club for his amateurish moves this summer. Why we were going after Rabiot/Arnautovic, I will never really know.
Maybe ask EtH as it was at his request.
yeah this is appalling. does he not have the self awareness of being really really bad at this, or that people working for you think you're a joke
I can't fault the club to the same extent here. We agreed a fee with Barcelona months ago.
Verbal agreement with player and agent. Formal agreement with club. What more could you conceivably do?
We then waited within reason, maybe even more than we needed to and moved onto Casemiro. Mind, this wasn't any player but rather one who excelled specifically under ETH. Any other midfielder and you would say no point in waiting. But here there was more to it.
There was no arrogance from anyone outside of Barcelona. It's detestable and shameful how they are handling their contracts and players.
A literal lie.
8/10 window from him ... All players are the manager's first choice targets ... Well done! The only complaint is that transfers were not completed earlier ... FdJ probably did not want to come and its not as if there were any obvious DLPs available to suit EtH.
The only positive I see from this window is that we could already have SAF 2.0 at the club already. I feel that ETH is capable of turning the club around with or without the so called useless DOF and still non existent football structure.
ETH turnaround the club rapidly with his signings, tactics and cultural reset. All this while Murtough was flying around Barcelona trying to meet Laporta and Arnold went drinking with the fans at the local pub.
ETH turnaround the club rapidly with his signings, tactics and cultural reset. All this while Murtough was flying around Barcelona trying to meet Laporta and Arnold went drinking with the fans at the local pub.
First transfer window and the biggest spend, along with a new manager. Malacia and Martinez look sound buys. Casemiro is a wc dm. Antony is an exciting winger. Eriksen a decent free transfer. The only one I dont know is the goalie from Newcastle, but its a loan deal.
Doesnt look too shabby to me. The only flaw is perhaps the moving on players. So 8.5/10 for me.
Proof of the pudding will be next summer when TH has seen the squad for a while and identifies where it needs strengthening. A striker will be a must. Goalie, RB as well. Murtough will no longer be a novice and we should see transfers in before the season starts hopefully.
Doesnt look too shabby to me. The only flaw is perhaps the moving on players. So 8.5/10 for me.
Proof of the pudding will be next summer when TH has seen the squad for a while and identifies where it needs strengthening. A striker will be a must. Goalie, RB as well. Murtough will no longer be a novice and we should see transfers in before the season starts hopefully.
ETH asked for them.
It's very difficult to judge him based on this first window because he clearly just handed recruitment over to Ten Hag, despite him having limited involvement at Ajax which naturally meant he mostly went for players he had seen at close quarters including the nonsensical approach to Arnautovic which wouldn't have happened at a more settled, well-run club.
To my mind backing the manager isn't just asking the manager who they want and fobbing identifying players off to them (although I think the De Jong pursuit and signing Martinez especially make sense to have players who can help make your style of play work to some extent from day 1) but having a well structured scouting and recruitment team who can identify players who fit the manager's philosophy and then agreeing on the preferred targets. At least for now that's clearly still not in place albeit hopefully it will by next summer as there will be a new head of scouting (maybe more than 1 senior figure coming in there) and I believe the data science team is still taking shape.
The couple of signings made towards the end of the window and the uptick in results and mood at least give him a chance to make the changes needed and really attack next summer but the club needs to work more efficiently in the market and their plans have to be more coherent than they have been this summer and for the last decade.
To my mind backing the manager isn't just asking the manager who they want and fobbing identifying players off to them (although I think the De Jong pursuit and signing Martinez especially make sense to have players who can help make your style of play work to some extent from day 1) but having a well structured scouting and recruitment team who can identify players who fit the manager's philosophy and then agreeing on the preferred targets. At least for now that's clearly still not in place albeit hopefully it will by next summer as there will be a new head of scouting (maybe more than 1 senior figure coming in there) and I believe the data science team is still taking shape.
The couple of signings made towards the end of the window and the uptick in results and mood at least give him a chance to make the changes needed and really attack next summer but the club needs to work more efficiently in the market and their plans have to be more coherent than they have been this summer and for the last decade.
Our fans are weird.
We had years of people saying our managers were not backed, yet he backed him by actually signing the players he wanted. Instead of praising him, people are now judging him for these signings not being "his signings", despite the fact that that's what you all wanted.
He gets all of them in , 6 in total.
Instead fans are now shifting the goalposts, using journalists to Guage transfers that didn't actually occur. A lot of the transfer news may have been speculation. The Rabiot deal may have been him looking to get 2 midfielders in. Yet, despite getting these players in, he still gets blamed somehow. City, Liverpool and Chelsea all made deadline deals, Pool and Chelsea in a state of panic, yet barely a word from the media. If we had signed Aubameyang or Zakaria or Arthur, the people complaining on this thread would have called Murtough far worse.
It feels almost like people here expect perfection, that every deal will go smoothly and backups won't be needed. They have no idea how to guage the actual job of a DOF yet pretend like they do. We are United, we are always in the news. Media folks always speculate and make assumptions about our plans and it will always be a headline. Yet for us, it's always seen as a brief or a negative spin. This window was a clear 9/10 and could end up being greater in time.
We had years of people saying our managers were not backed, yet he backed him by actually signing the players he wanted. Instead of praising him, people are now judging him for these signings not being "his signings", despite the fact that that's what you all wanted.
He gets all of them in , 6 in total.
Instead fans are now shifting the goalposts, using journalists to Guage transfers that didn't actually occur. A lot of the transfer news may have been speculation. The Rabiot deal may have been him looking to get 2 midfielders in. Yet, despite getting these players in, he still gets blamed somehow. City, Liverpool and Chelsea all made deadline deals, Pool and Chelsea in a state of panic, yet barely a word from the media. If we had signed Aubameyang or Zakaria or Arthur, the people complaining on this thread would have called Murtough far worse.
It feels almost like people here expect perfection, that every deal will go smoothly and backups won't be needed. They have no idea how to guage the actual job of a DOF yet pretend like they do. We are United, we are always in the news. Media folks always speculate and make assumptions about our plans and it will always be a headline. Yet for us, it's always seen as a brief or a negative spin. This window was a clear 9/10 and could end up being greater in time.
Id say we’ll go after another CB as well. Anyways I still don’t understand how we suck so much at selling players.
Casemiro's being available at the time he was did save us this summer, along with throwing shitloads of money at the issue to solve, which we usually do and failed at in recent history. Before that, we did not seem to have any decent targets at all for the DM/CM role. He could have tried to get more players that we needed in this whole time, like Antony, for example, at a cheaper price, even if he wanted to wait more than a month for FDJ, which should have been the absolute limit. No one should even wait for the whole summer in that kind of situation, even for Messi at his prime. Hopefully, the whole club, including the manager, will learn from these summer transfer dealings.
Its literally the DOF's job to overrule transfers that dont make sense for the club. Its not to blindly go for every target the manager wants.
How man United think they look arriving to negotiate transfers
How every club and agent sees them
How every club and agent sees them
DoF should be sacked for spending big money on players manager wanted.
DoF should be sacked for trying to sign players on cheap, again players manager wanted.
People have very wrong idea about managers, coaches, DoF
In their head it's -
Coach vs board/owners
DoF vs coach.
There are people who still moan about not signing Perisic because board denies request made by football people.
DoF should be sacked for trying to sign players on cheap, again players manager wanted.
People have very wrong idea about managers, coaches, DoF
In their head it's -
Coach vs board/owners
DoF vs coach.
There are people who still moan about not signing Perisic because board denies request made by football people.
But it's for DoF and manager to decide what makes sense for the club, not random fan who won't have access to any report or data. It's all good to argue which player is this and that, but to go one step further and asking for him to be sacked just because random fan didn't rate player is taking it too far.
Incomings : 7/10
Some good signings, but overpaid on all the big deals(Antony, Casemiro, Martinez). Went for some weird targets, and couldnt get their main man in De Jong or an alternative.
Outgoings : 3/10
Just horrible.
Overall strategy : 5/10
A very scattergun approach, with us not really targeting profiles. Left business too late and got fleeced. Reports coming out now that Keane brother was woefully out of his depth. Clearly this window had no planning and we left it late with panic buys after failing to secure our main target and getting spanked 4-0.
Some good signings, but overpaid on all the big deals(Antony, Casemiro, Martinez). Went for some weird targets, and couldnt get their main man in De Jong or an alternative.
Outgoings : 3/10
Just horrible.
Overall strategy : 5/10
A very scattergun approach, with us not really targeting profiles. Left business too late and got fleeced. Reports coming out now that Keane brother was woefully out of his depth. Clearly this window had no planning and we left it late with panic buys after failing to secure our main target and getting spanked 4-0.
Don’t think you know what scattergun is tbh
True and real
Going from De Jong, to Rabiot, to Casemiro is the definition of scattergun.
If everytime we sign players that look like they fit the manager and can actually play football, we are going to nitpick the bad factors in it such as fees or "theyre all from dutch league/manager worked with them before" then lets not sign any players ever again. Because I know some posters will find the bad in it and tbh, there are always bad in everything. How do you live like that?
Yeah that’s not what happened if you read up on it
If they want to moan, they can moan about anything. We can sign Messi at his peak and they will moan about his work rate or how he is highest paid player in the league when he never played in PL.
Casemiro was our replacement for De Jong. They are not the same profile at all. Neither is Rabiot.
As I say, you’re wrong. Rabiot was seen as a supplementary signing. They didn’t go from De Jong to Rabiot to Casemiro. United had spoken to Casemiro towards the start of the window as he indicated to Madrid following the CL final he wanted to seek a new challenge. Not scattergun at all.
Chelseas window is the definition of scattergun.
The Athletic article today suggests Rabiot was the alternative to De Jong as some of us thought at the time. The window was a joke. Let's just hope the next ones are better.
Quote from Whitwell's article. Given the fee, we probably would have signed someone else too but he was seen as an alternative to De Jong. After Brentford it did become a bit scatter gun, not to the extent of Chelsea but panic definitely set it.
A tip: Your posts would read so much better without the childish insults in every post.
That's not how we work. Not saying it's wrong or right but we have always supported managers in all possible ways. Guess, that's one of our selling points when trying to hire someone in.
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