The John Murtough Era

Status
Not open for further replies.
TBH, I wasn’t expecting anything different going from Woodward to Murtough. Murtough was part of the leadership team that got us in this situation during Woodward’s time.

I honestly don’t see us digging out of this mess for several more years!

Gosh, are we in bad shape…it’s terrible leadership from top to bottom. We should have all listened when Jose was calling everyone out.
 
John Murtough would’ve sold off Busquets and Pedro if he was the DoF of the old Barca team.
Garner is a player you groom into becoming a handy squaddie who performs a vital role during the last half of the season. Terrible appointment.
 
ilrm said:
John Murtough would’ve sold off Busquets and Pedro if he was the DoF of the old Barca team.
Garner is a player you groom into becoming a handy squaddie who performs a vital role during the last half of the season. Terrible appointment.
Click to expand...

Desperately trying to flog Garner while rejecting any offers for McTominay is criminal, no other word for it.
 
hobbers said:
Desperately trying to flog Garner while rejecting any offers for McTominay is criminal, no other word for it.
Click to expand...
Is there even an offer for McT? I’d be surprised if potential buyers aren’t put off by his salary.
 
MileStolar said:
I get it, it's very bad, but mostly because the team is playing badly which puts pressure on everyone and it's last regime's leftovers if we're being honest.

What these new guys absolutely have to avoid is signing players on astronomically high wages which deepens the complacency in our squad and also creates more greed.

So far we've not given ridiculous contracts and only excessive expenditures so far is Martinez with whooping 50m£
Click to expand...
his job is not to not sign players...
 
mitchmouse said:
his job is not to not sign players...
Click to expand...
Part of his job is to know when to sign a player and when to pull out. If he folds for demands that are greedy it'll create a viscous circle where you pay more for less. Our rivals pay better players lower wages and here we are stuck with bad players on crazy money who sulk and refuse to break a sweat.

Our leaders have to break that circle, and I sure hope they do it by signing lesser names on lower wages rather than players like Rabbiot and such...
 
MileStolar said:
Part of his job is to know when to sign a player and when to pull out. If he folds for demands that are greedy it'll create a viscous circle where you pay more for less. Our rivals pay better players lower wages and here we are stuck with bad players on crazy money who sulk and refuse to break a sweat.

Our leaders have to break that circle, and I sure hope they do it by signing lesser names on lower wages rather than players like Rabbiot and such...
Click to expand...

What's your opinion of doubling Bruno's contract when he was on a long term one?
 
I have a theory that he is actually working for the fans. The uproar and protests would never have reached such fever pitch if he had done his job. Thanks to that, it sort united a divided fan base and even invited a bid from Sir Ratcliffe and attention of Elon Musk.

If Glazer does leave this summer, he deserve a lot of credit, may even be worthy of a statue.
 
stoinz said:
I have a theory that he is actually working for the fans. The uproar and protests would never have reached such fever pitch if he had done his job. Thanks to that, it sort united a divided fan base and even invited a bid from Sir Ratcliffe and attention of Elon Musk.

If Glazer does leave this summer, he deserve a lot of credit, may even be worthy of a statue.
Click to expand...
Nice. Between this and calling the papparazi on himself in turin I say we cant underestimate Johnny boy. Bow down to his acumen. Was all part of his masterplan all along.
 
Murtough has a wealth of experience, he is working 12 hour days, he is well connected, he is flying all over the place to conclude business, he is working closely with and backing the manager, he is working to improve the training facilities, he is sitting down with key players to discuss contracts........ jack of all trades master of none.

His tenure can now only be viewed as atrocious and whether he is directly responsible for transfer negotation or not, he oversees it and should take responsibility. Woody was equally useless but so much for a new era.

The video of him ambling through Turin Airport with his bag stunk of despairaton.

Rabiot, Cunha, De Jong, Dumfries, Antony, Gakpo, Caicedo, SMS, Sommer, Begovic, Casemiro (:lol:), arnautovic, Pau Torres, Dest, Pulisic, Ziyech, Felix, Kaldazjic, Raum, Gnabry, Sane, Hudson Odoi, Depay, Icardi, vitinha, Morata, Mukiele, Sangare, N'kunku, Dembele, Dembele M,Neymar, Paredes, Lamptey, Nunez, Zagadau, Timber all still gettable .......................
 
We need striker/s since Rangnick time Jan last year. And now Ronaldo want to feck off too. And we still can't even sign a single attacker.
 
Are people actually outraged at signing Casemiro?

£58m + reportedly around £250K a week (our contracts have always been heavily performance incentivised) and folk have an issue?

His injury record is very good, he is a top professional, a serial winner and the world's best CDM right NOW.

Get real, guys. Imagine scoffing at that whilst we're at the bottom of the table ffs. We've been crying out for a CDM for years.

I only hope we get someone of De Jong's calibre alongside him. One last push.
 
DutchCruijff said:
Are people actually outraged at signing Casemiro?

£58m + reportedly around £250K a week (our contracts have always been heavily performance incentivised) and folk have an issue?

His injury record is very good, he is a top professional, a serial winner and the world's best CDM right NOW.

Get real, guys. Imagine scoffing at that whilst we're at the bottom of the table ffs. We've been crying out for a CDM for years.

I only hope we get someone of De Jong's calibre alongside him. One last push.
Click to expand...
How long do you think it’s going to take before we can compete with Man City and Liverpool? 2 years at the very least? We should be spending large sums on players that are peaking around that period, not entering their declining phase. Casemiro has been offered to us, with Real Madrid replacing him with Tchouameni and Camavinga, you’d expect John to be able to bring that price down, knowing Casemiro is going to spend more time then ever on the bench from now onwards. He’s a top quality player currently don’t get me wrong, but if we pay that amount for him then John Murtough hasn’t learnt anything from united’s mistakes.
 
luke511 said:
How long do you think it’s going to take before we can compete with Man City and Liverpool? 2 years at the very least? We should be spending large sums on players that are peaking around that period, not entering their declining phase. Casemiro has been offered to us, with Real Madrid replacing him with Tchouameni and Camavinga, you’d expect John to be able to bring that price down, knowing Casemiro is going to spend more time then ever on the bench from now onwards. He’s a top quality player currently don’t get me wrong, but if we pay that amount for him then John Murtough hasn’t learnt anything from united’s mistakes.
Click to expand...
Buddy, we're not going to be competing with City or Liverpool if we were not competitive now. The hill will be even harder to climb.
 
DutchCruijff said:
Buddy, we're not going to be competing with City or Liverpool if we were not competitive now. The hill will be even harder to climb.
Click to expand...
That doesn’t make sense. If we buy a quality DM like Caicedo that will be peaking in 2 year’s time, that gives us a better chance of competing in 2 year’s time, than if we were to sign Casemiro who will have declined between now and then.
 
luke511 said:
That doesn’t make sense. If we buy a quality DM like Caicedo that will be peaking in 2 year’s time, that gives us a better chance of competing in 2 year’s time, than if we were to sign Casemiro who will have declined between now and then.
Click to expand...
You are expecting Caicedo to hit Casemiro's level or come close to it. That is a very big ask.
 
mu4c_20le said:
You are expecting Caicedo to hit Casemiro's level or come close to it. That is a very big ask.
Click to expand...
No I’m expecting Caicedo to become an indispensable player in that position for the next 12/13 years, compared to Casemiro’s 2/3. Caicedo has already shown his ability multiple times against us and other top opposition, there’s no need to try and compare, he would be a huge improvement with more room to grow. He’s much better value for money, something this club needs to consider after throwing over a billion into a hot fire.
 
DutchCruijff said:
Are people actually outraged at signing Casemiro?

£58m + reportedly around £250K a week (our contracts have always been heavily performance incentivised) and folk have an issue?

His injury record is very good, he is a top professional, a serial winner and the world's best CDM right NOW.

Get real, guys. Imagine scoffing at that whilst we're at the bottom of the table ffs. We've been crying out for a CDM for years.

I only hope we get someone of De Jong's calibre alongside him. One last push.
Click to expand...
If he was 25, sure. He's 30. Midfielders decline before other positions, in 2-3 years time we'll need to be looking for a replacement. Spending big on him makes no sense.
 
MileStolar said:
Part of his job is to know when to sign a player and when to pull out. If he folds for demands that are greedy it'll create a viscous circle where you pay more for less. Our rivals pay better players lower wages and here we are stuck with bad players on crazy money who sulk and refuse to break a sweat.

Our leaders have to break that circle, and I sure hope they do it by signing lesser names on lower wages rather than players like Rabbiot and such...
Click to expand...
but they haven't signed the players we need/filled the very obvious hols in the team/squad
 
yumtum said:
What's your opinion of doubling Bruno's contract when he was on a long term one?
Click to expand...
I'm certainly not happy about it, but you have to look at things from more angles and I understand why at the time we had to do it.

Bruno was our best player for quite some time and the likes of Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, De Gea even Henderson were on huge salaries compared to their contributions. When you have a situation like that it is normal for players that perform to expect to be rewarded with a salary increase.

That's why it would be best if we found a way to reset our wage structure somehow. The way it is now, every new acquisition deepens our woes. For example if we were to sign a player that's ok with being paid 50k p/w when his agent know how much we overpay our other players all of a sudden he thinks he's worth 80k p/w. Now imagine someone like FDJ or someone who reckons himself a world class player.
 
DutchCruijff said:
Are people actually outraged at signing Casemiro?

£58m + reportedly around £250K a week (our contracts have always been heavily performance incentivised) and folk have an issue?

His injury record is very good, he is a top professional, a serial winner and the world's best CDM right NOW.

Get real, guys. Imagine scoffing at that whilst we're at the bottom of the table ffs. We've been crying out for a CDM for years.

I only hope we get someone of De Jong's calibre alongside him. One last push.
Click to expand...

We are "rebuilding" by buying a 30-year-old player for €70M whose only connection to the club will be his obscene salary. He has absolutely no other reason to be here. He has already played for the biggest club on the planet on the biggest stage and has won everything. He is also a midfielder where being fit and running a lot is paramount. How long will he be able to do that for? 1-2 years? How long will he care to do that for? This isn't a player you buy when you are in our position. Our chances of challenging anything in those two years are non-existent. His legs will be gone by the time we get to that point. If we get to that point. Sure, he'd be a good purchase for €40M to a team that just needs that little something in that position to really get going. We are not that team.

To me this seems like a stop-gap and posturing by Murtough. He is trying to prove and save himself by prying away Real Madrid's prized midfielder. Not seemingly realizing Real Madrid have already lined his successor and wouldn't be opposed to sending him away for a fee. And here come United offering €70M. It's ridiculous.

I honestly can't believe people are okay with this. It reeks of Woodward's antics. But I guess a name like his is enough to make people lose their minds to the hype, like so many times before. "If we just sign X, we will be set".
 
Telsim said:
We are "rebuilding" by buying a 30-year-old player for €70M whose only connection to the club will be his obscene salary. He has absolutely no other reason to be here. He has already played for the biggest club on the planet on the biggest stage and has won everything. He is also a midfielder where being fit and running a lot is paramount. How long will he be able to do that for? 1-2 years? How long will he care to do that for? This isn't a player you buy when you are in our position. Our chances of challenging anything in those two years are non-existent. His legs will be gone by the time we get to that point. If we get to that point. Sure, he'd be a good purchase for €40M to a team that just needs that little something in that position to really get going. We are not that team.

To me this seems like a stop-gap and posturing by Murtough. He is trying to prove and save himself by prying away Real Madrid's prized midfielder. Not seemingly realizing Real Madrid have already lined his successor and wouldn't be opposed to sending him away for a fee. And here come United offering €70M. It's ridiculous.

I honestly can't believe people are okay with this. It reeks of Woodward's antics. But I guess a name like his is enough to make people lose their minds to the hype, like so many times before. "If we just sign X, we will be set".
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, did Fernandinho not exist? Did Makelele not exist? Busquets? Alonso?

These are guys who have performed to a very highly level in their 30s. Their legs did not suddenly just go. Even Casemiro's peer, Modric, is performing to an incredibly high level in his late 30s.

Madrid have lined up Tchouameni, he is no guaranteed success whatsoever. Folk acting as if he is the next Redondo.

If we don't compete today, we've got no hope of comepting tomorrow.

I don't care if he is a stop gap, he is one of the greatest CDMs and the best one around now, an absolutely excellent signing and one where I want us to complement him with another playmaker.
 
DutchCruijff said:
I'm sorry, did Fernandinho not exist? Did Makelele not exist? Busquets? Alonso?

These are guys who have performed to a very highly level in their 30s. Their legs did not suddenly just go. Even Casemiro's peer, Modric, is performing to an incredibly high level in his late 30s.

Madrid have lined up Tchouameni, he is no guaranteed success whatsoever. Folk acting as if he is the next Redondo.

If we don't compete today, we've got no hope of comepting tomorrow.

I don't care if he is a stop gap, he is one of the greatest CDMs and the best one around now, an absolutely excellent signing and one where I want us to complement him with another playmaker.
Click to expand...

I explained this. Neither of those you mentioned have anything even remotely similar to this situation. They didn't cost nearly as much. They didn't join an actively dysfunctional team. Casemiro would be a good addition to a team that needs that little edge. This team has a long way to go before challenging, not mention winning. If you think winning now is on the cards and Casemiro is a means to that end, then I don't know what to tell you except that you are wrong. Casemiro will be long gone before we are in a position to challenge. Forget about winning now, having an actual plan or vision would be a good start. And this window has shown there is absolutely no such thing.
 
have faith (apologies for my non existent photoshop skills)


WTBacLQ.jpeg
 
luke511 said:
How long do you think it’s going to take before we can compete with Man City and Liverpool? 2 years at the very least? We should be spending large sums on players that are peaking around that period, not entering their declining phase. Casemiro has been offered to us, with Real Madrid replacing him with Tchouameni and Camavinga, you’d expect John to be able to bring that price down, knowing Casemiro is going to spend more time then ever on the bench from now onwards. He’s a top quality player currently don’t get me wrong, but if we pay that amount for him then John Murtough hasn’t learnt anything from united’s mistakes.
Click to expand...
We get top performances from him next 2 years it will be well worth it. We are literally another galaxy from the two teams at the top. We need to sign good players to at least get near the top 4. What you say make sense but it is quite clear that a lot of players who are on the up don’t really want to come here b/c we offer no prospects of developing them. We have no youngster who apparently can step in immediately. So what would you have us do? Sit and continue to implode? Signing Casemiro is of course soft term but I agree with this move b/c it it addresses a clear need for at least a couple of seasons. We need to become an attractive destination for players again. We clearly are NOT at this point.
 
If we sign Casmerio, let's remember that Madrid have signed two players aged 18 and 21 in his position in recent years, we're offering about £65m and we're doubling his money. It's a very easy decision to make for all involved. If this transfer had a hint of challenge about it, it would be dead in the water.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Check his thread when he was hired. It is funny how people were happy with it just because "he did great stuff with women team".
I also said that guy is a rookie and Ed's apprentice but got abuse because "his CV looks great" :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I'm afraid that's a famous trait of the caf. It didn't matter who we signed as backroom staff or from what obscure country the caf jumped on anyones throat that dared criticize the decision and here we are today. Hopefully people will learn from their mistakes but somehow I very much doubt it. Top reds and all that.
 
Esquire said:
We get top performances from him next 2 years it will be well worth it. We are literally another galaxy from the two teams at the top. We need to sign good players to at least get near the top 4. What you say make sense but it is quite clear that a lot of players who are on the up don’t really want to come here b/c we offer no prospects of developing them. We have no youngster who apparently can step in immediately. So what would you have us do? Sit and continue to implode? Signing Casemiro is of course soft term but I agree with this move b/c it it addresses a clear need for at least a couple of seasons. We need to become an attractive destination for players again. We clearly are NOT at this point.
Click to expand...
Will it be worth it if we win nothing in 2 years and he's worth 4 times less at that point than the amount we paid for him? It just stinks of the same shit the club has fallen for on multiple occasions, world class player on the edge of decline, earning a huge wage here based on reputation. Only this time we're paying £60 million, on a player that has just been replaced in the starting XI and will be declining quite heavily in price from this point onwards. Don't get me wrong Casemiro is one of the best CDMs on the planet and has been for 5/6 years, but it's not a sustainable transfer when we're not ready to compete. Spend £60/70 million on someone like Caicedo that will give us a great level currently, help get us back into the top 4 and will maintain/grow his value and level around about for the next 10 years, it's much more sustainable when the team and club is in such an urgent need for a rebuild. Real Madrid paid £72 million for 22 year old Tchouameni and £28 million (1 year left I know) for 18 year old Camavinga, that's how you do it.
 
Esquire said:
We get top performances from him next 2 years it will be well worth it
Click to expand...
We won't get them. Why would he bother exactly?
If he will decide to go here, his only motivator will be the money, that all. You really have to be stupid to go from a CL winning team to a team in severe decline that's not in CL even and in all fairness is an outsider in CL-spot fight this year as well.

Ask yourself a simple question. Why would any sportsman, who supposedly strives to be better and all choose such a destination? Money. And if it's for money clearly his effort would be lacking, he won't be going that extra mile for us.

Come on guys, it's been the same story, the same exact story with all of our "proven" aging players transfers. And every time people like "right, but that's one is different, he is a true professional, he'll put in an effort etc, etc".
No he won't, it's that simple.
 
If we sign both Casemiro AND Caicedo, John Murtough can walk round wearing suits with white trainers every season of the year.
 
It seems that our elite data analysts had worked alongside Murtough day and night for the past few months. The result of that was that they were able to discover 30 year old Casemiro from Real. That was their first major coup since their famous discovery in AWB. Back then we had analysed over 300 RB only to come up with his name.
 
Signing Casemiro prove that we learnt nothing. We are now a case study of failure by major sporting institutions in the world and yet we are still following the same path. Unbelievable.

Casemiro will add to the reasons why we spent the most in the world and also with highest wages in PL and yet we are nowhere near the teams at the top. In fact we are the laughing stock and case study how not to run a football club.

This started from Ed time and the legacy continue by Arnold and Murtough. What a bunch of clowns running Man Utd.
 
I agree with Rangnick. To rebuild we need to sign players in his 1st or 2nd contracts, not his last contract. We need the hunger from the young players and also protect the values of the players.

Many top teams even only give 1 year rolling contract to players over 30. They seldom sign players over 30, let alone with big fees.

We are really crazy and our incompetency are so obvious. We don't have plan at all. Arnautovic, Rabiot, Broberry and all, now Casemiro really?
 
mu4c_20le said:
You are expecting Caicedo to hit Casemiro's level or come close to it. That is a very big ask.
Click to expand...
Michael Edwards thought the same about Sadio mane in July 2014 when he knocked back the chance to sign him before he went to the saints, you have no idea in fairness of just how good the lad could turn out, as he may turn out to be like you say, or he could turn out to be like what you say he won't.


Ash86 said:
If he will decide to go here, his only motivator will be the money, that all.

Ask yourself a simple question. Why would any sportsman, who supposedly strives to be better and all choose such a destination? Money. And if it's for money clearly his effort would be lacking, he won't be going that extra mile for us.
Click to expand...
Once upon a time there was a player who had an option of going to the constant winners of the league, always in the top European cup and winning, and also challenged for the FA Cup and league cup and winning them at times too, or go to a club that was nowhere near winning the league, no chance in the second tier cup of Europe when they did manage to qualify for it and an odd FA Cup, both teams had the same transfer fee accepted, one offered more money in wages, the players name, Bryan Robson or as the then UTD fans renamed him Captain Marvel due to the "effort" he put in, regardless of coming here just because we offered more wages than Liverpool.
 
Last edited:
luke511 said:
If we sign both Casemiro AND Caicedo, John Murtough can walk round wearing suits with white trainers every season of the year.
Click to expand...
I mean we paid a lot of money to the clubs and players. Some players would be tempted to join us.

The issue was not doing it early even if we have to pay a lot. And, obviously, he will be judged more on his long-term visions of recruiting.

Spending shit loads of money right before the window is closed is what we have done mostly in the last ten years and the team goes nowhere.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.