The John Murtough Era

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Godfather said:
It was interesting to see many scutally believed things would change under that guy
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You expect wholesale change in a couple of months?

I'm far from a fan of what has happened this summer, but can we at least give this some fecking time before losing our minds? Loads can happen between now and the end of the window.

No opinion on Arnold thus far, but as far as Murtough goes, his legacy so far involves a complete revamping of the youth system which has led to our recent FA Youth Cup success and a couple of really exciting age groups on the way over the next couple of years.

When given time, he has done the job, he gets 18 months in the role to effect change which I think is fair enough for support staff as well as managers.
 
Hope we start hearing as many anti-Murtough chants as anti Glazer

They're one and the same anyway, but the best way to keep the press from going after ETH is if the fans turn poisonous towards the cretins above him and not just the Glazers.
 
Godfather said:
It was interesting to see many scutally believed things would change under that guy
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It was ridiculous. United is the only club where individuals get plaudits for doing quite literally nothing. All Murtough has done is thrash out changes in various departments, briefing the journalists about a new direction concerning XYZ and the fans clang unto it like bait on a rod.

Woodward had more experience in multiple windows, he complied with more managers and he was clearly made the fall guy for the super league fiasco though it's quite clear his superiors are those who initiated those intentions. Woodward was hardly a good executive but as far as I'm concerned him stepping down and Murtough stepping in is quite a downgrade.

The club should have outsourced the DOF position with someone who's been there and done it because the CEO has no idea what he's doing, John has no idea what he's doing and the Glazers have no idea what they're doing. In the modern day a good manager must be complimented by a good director of football. This is the new model that garners success in the game today. Everything in United's hierarchy is a disaster.
 
Stobzilla said:
You expect wholesale change in a couple of months?

I'm far from a fan of what has happened this summer, but can we at least give this some fecking time before losing our minds? Loads can happen between now and the end of the window.

No opinion on Arnold thus far, but as far as Murtough goes, his legacy so far involves a complete revamping of the youth system which has led to our recent FA Youth Cup success and a couple of really exciting age groups on the way over the next couple of years.

When given time, he has done the job, he gets 18 months in the role to effect change which I think is fair enough for support staff as well as managers.
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So his legacy involves being decent at a completely different job?
I'm all for giving him time but the level of incompetence shown during this window has been nothing but staggering.

Also what the feck do wholesale changes mean in this regard? I expected us to strengthen a squad that finished sixth last season and looked a shambles and not actually weaken it. Hardly an outrageous claim is it. He looks totally overwhelmed by the job at hand which is hardly fit and proper for a billion dollar company.
 
Another clown who has no idea. Remember the leaks early in the summer that our handling in the transfers in the new era was seen as firm and agents started respecting us?

If he would spend less time trying on PR maybe he would have at least sign a backup gk.
 
Stobzilla said:
No opinion on Arnold thus far, but as far as Murtough goes, his legacy so far involves a complete revamping of the youth system which has led to our recent FA Youth Cup success and a couple of really exciting age groups on the way over the next couple of years.

When given time, he has done the job, he gets 18 months in the role to effect change which I think is fair enough for support staff as well as managers.
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No. Murtough gets no more time. After this summer he has to be fecked off, whether that's doing some other work for the club or not, who really cares.

This football director job is about working with scouts to identify players who fit into your philosophy and are realistically attainable. And who the manager is happy to work with. Murtough has proven he cannot do this. He doesn't even have a philosophy. He just takes orders from Ten Hag or Twitter and has no input himself.

It's about negotiating with agents, getting deals done promptly, making the club seem an attractive destination to players, and knowing when to cut your losses and walk away. Murtough has proven he cannot do any of this either.

Any more time given to him after this summer would be even more moronic than Ole's ill-fated contract extension. Why the feck would we waste another year's squad building and transfer prep on this clown?
 
Just a feckin company yes man. Nothing will change until the people at the top change.

#GlazersOut
 
Woodward was much better at his job and that's the most damning thing I can say about this clown. Sack him and hire a proper DOF for feck's sake.
 
RedMilo said:
Just a feckin company yes man. Nothing will change until the people at the top change.

#GlazersOut
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The thing is I reckon you can get onfield success with a good / decent DOF and a competitive manager. I know the Glazers have a terrible agenda for running the club (extrapolating profits) but the busines model for United on an operational level can work if on the footballing side of things the right people are in the right place.

Remove Murtough and put someone who knows what they're doing and the atmosphere around the club alone is significantly different. Spurs are a very good recent example with Patrici and Conte. I'm sure fan opinion about Levy is significantly divided. But when you've got a new manager who still has much to prove, a new CEO who is incompetent and a DOF who is incompetent there's just no traction for the road ahead.
 
Stobzilla said:
You expect wholesale change in a couple of months?

I'm far from a fan of what has happened this summer, but can we at least give this some fecking time before losing our minds? Loads can happen between now and the end of the window.

No opinion on Arnold thus far, but as far as Murtough goes, his legacy so far involves a complete revamping of the youth system which has led to our recent FA Youth Cup success and a couple of really exciting age groups on the way over the next couple of years.

When given time, he has done the job, he gets 18 months in the role to effect change which I think is fair enough for support staff as well as managers.
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No issue giving anyone time but come on some of the stuff going on this window is just baffling like really mindbogglingly baffling.

Utd and the board are under zero obligation to tell us fans what is going on transfer wise. It actually feels worse and we have not learned from Woodwards mistakes. We are chasing players who don't want to come due to the lack of Champions league football. No back up plan other than pay through the nose for players we could have had for a steal 18 months ago. The team needed major surgery the day the season finished, we could see it, the board could see it. ETH was in the building at the end of the season and identified the players and the profile. If nobody is asking the questions in May 'What if FDJ want's to come, what's the back up plan?' then christ on a bike what is going on. If the suggestion is our midfield can only be improved by signing FDJ then again, the loony's are running the nut house.

Not once, but twice we have agreed fee's with clubs before sounding out the player or so it seems. Added to that 3 senior players in the midfield department leaving on a free, no transition plan and we then plan to sell one of our only players of the fabled 'profile' in James Garner. If ever there is a blueprint on how to not run a club, we have to be in with a shout surely.

All the back room stuff, and club restructure, if that's what Murtough is good at then great, Kudos to him, let him carry on will get my backing for being one of the best in the business. But get somebody in with equal competence to sort out incomings and outgoing on the player side because at the moment, this looks way above his station..
 
Watch it turn out that Woodward was actually good at his job and now we'll see true incompetence
 
Leftback99 said:
His early era is already looking like a disasterclass as some of us predicted when others were getting excited about all the 'big changes' behind the scenes.

Latest rumours show we're still trying to short cut our way to success by buying yesterday's players rather doing some actual scouting and building for the future like everyone else.
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Those “big changes” were bare minimum. Our recruitment strategy was so shit and dated that bringing us into the modern era was enough. Not best in class or the most ruthlessly efficient in the market just the bare minimum.
 
Stobzilla said:
You expect wholesale change in a couple of months?

I'm far from a fan of what has happened this summer, but can we at least give this some fecking time before losing our minds? Loads can happen between now and the end of the window.

No opinion on Arnold thus far, but as far as Murtough goes, his legacy so far involves a complete revamping of the youth system which has led to our recent FA Youth Cup success and a couple of really exciting age groups on the way over the next couple of years.

When given time, he has done the job, he gets 18 months in the role to effect change which I think is fair enough for support staff as well as managers.
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It's not a couple months and this isn't his first window. It has almost been a full year since he chose our interim manager and even had jurisdiction on when Ole was terminated. He made several contract renewals with his staff before that. Before that he was working in at least some capacity since he was apparently Woodward's fixer and got promoted under him. He doesn't need another 18 months of zero scrutiny.
 
Giggsy13 said:
Those “big changes” were bare minimum. Our recruitment strategy was so shit and dated that bringing us into the modern era was enough. Not best in class or the most ruthlessly efficient in the market just the bare minimum.
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Yeah they were nothing. I said at the time we were just swapping Woodward for his mate and sacking a couple of scouts but got shouted down. Turns out this summer would have been better with Woodward still in charge.

Rather than throwing millions away on panic signings at this point we'd be better not doing anything and redirecting some of those millions on signing the best backroom staff we can get ready for future windows.
 
Vapor trail said:
The thing is I reckon you can get onfield success with a good / decent DOF and a competitive manager. I know the Glazers have a terrible agenda for running the club (extrapolating profits) but the busines model for United on an operational level can work if on the footballing side of things the right people are in the right place.

Remove Murtough and put someone who knows what they're doing and the atmosphere around the club alone is significantly different. Spurs are a very good recent example with Patrici and Conte. I'm sure fan opinion about Levy is significantly divided. But when you've got a new manager who still has much to prove, a new CEO who is incompetent and a DOF who is incompetent there's just no traction for the road ahead.
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There's a fundamental difference between ourselves and Spurs.

We are declining from a position of being one of the most revered football clubs in world football, to be quite frank a laughing stock.

Whilst they have always had a decent following but have always been a bit of a banter club. Now they have invested in infrastructure the stadium and got the right people in at key parts of the organisation in Conte and more particularly Patriaci, despite having similar debt, they have actually got something to show for theirs.

The Glazers have wasted £1.6bn of Utds money following their takeover, to be left with a rotting stadium, a squad weaker than at any point in our epl history, a star player at 37 who can turn up when he likes and mug the club off, and a banker in charge of recruitment for the last decade sorry Sir Matt would be turning in his grave.

Not only that but :

They are taking dividends from the club.

They are selling petty shares and pocketing the money you, not reinvesting it.

We have no structure.

We have leaks from the dressing room.

We brief the press to try and cover up our latest mess in the transfer window.

Who is in control of what? The buck stops with the Glazers (the definition of parasites)

Fergie used to run the place with an iron fist, it's too big a job for one person but the principles have got to be the same to succeed.

No one bigger than the manager on the footballing side. Fine any players who leak stuff or go behind the managers back.

A sports director and an academy director that is working in tandem.

An ideology of how the club want to play and scouting department in line with the thinking of that, with instructions from the sporting director of the characteristics for example a right back needs to have i.e. more than just being able to slide tackle ffs..

Recruitment decisions finalised by football people. The men in suits only need to agree to budgetary constraints everything else should be delegated to people who know what they're doing.

Who deals the man management side with the players, are new recruits being giving extra support when moving to the club.

I could go on forever, with the horror stories you hear coming out of this club.

I've seen enough - it won't end til they're gone and someone comes in with an interest of actually running us as a proper football club than just a money making machine..

#GlazersOut
 
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RedMilo said:
Just a feckin company yes man. Nothing will change until the people at the top change.

#GlazersOut
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He is a company yes man which explains why he kept getting promoted within a structure that was constantly failing. Yet as it happens to Icarus I fear that the guy had got too near to the sun and had been exposed. FFS look at his CV. I won't be surprised that he will be the fall guy for such mess
 
Leftback99 said:
Yeah they were nothing. I said at the time we were just swapping Woodward for his mate and sacking a couple of scouts but got shouted down. Turns out this summer would have been better with Woodward still in charge.

Rather than throwing millions away on panic signings at this point we'd be better not doing anything and redirecting some of those millions on signing the best backroom staff we can get ready for future windows.
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He has made massive assessment errors in his short time. First was holding on to Ole for too long, even renewed his staff and ridiculed fans' Ole out chants, Ole would end up sacked within only a couple weeks, Second and third are linked. The Rangnick hire turned out to be pointless but most importantly he misread the quality of the present squad. He was in the press about how the squad was good and had just finished 2nd and didn't need significant changes.

Guy is misreading everything and dropping red flags everywhere. He might not be the most football savvy and people just want us to ignore it and check back in 12-18 months. Giving people time doesn't mean ignoring signs completely. This doesn't even include smaller red flags like the Arnautovic deal (no background checks or basic scouting before bidding for a player?) and doubling Bruno's wages when he was already trending down.

Edit, also like to add having no input on recruitment and having to defer to a manager who wasn't even doing that job at his old club. Making it even more criminal that he had no ideas of his own and still sacked his scouting department heading into a summer. Between them and Ralf he basically let go of everyone who knew football more than him.
 
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Always had my doubts, Murtough has been at the club for a number of years and looks like hand picked replacement. Fresh approach was probably required with a new competent appointment someone not already at the club to fulfill such important role.
 
I look at his CV and i don't really see there anything that will make him even a half-successful DOF nevermind actually a good one. The guy is a decent academy manager if that. But that's pretty much all he is ever be. He is out of his depth and that much is clear.
He never should have allowed this FDJ nonsense to prevail over our transfer strategy. It was clear as day that if he would come here, that would have been Di Maria/Sanchez story all over again. That was an extremely stupid deal to begin with.

I actually don't know how exactly he managed to make a mess of it. We don't need top players, we can't get them. It is a sad reality but it is a REALITY. What we actually need in order to mount a somewhat decent fight for CL spot, which our current maximum, is simply to fix our squad. We needed decent signings in several positions. That's all.
We needed a RB, more that a left one actually, but left one is a sort of on the list as well. We needed a defensive, tackling midfielder, who can properly win the ball back and protect the back four. That should have been our top targets and he needed to compile a list of 3-4 players in those two positions, talk to Ten Hag and get one of each. There are many options actually, if we don't look and players like Casemiro or FDJ. Instead we tried for FDJ, i am not even convinced he will be a good fit here tactically, who he will partner exactly? Fred and Bruno in a 3 midfield? That would be a disaster, i tell you.

Then and only then we needed to start working on possible forward, bringing some decent depth players. And also we needed to offload players actually. Instead all of that we got involved in this stupid FDJ thing, then we got Eriksen and Martinez. I am actually against them both, but that's not the point, the point is we don't really needed them, not as much as other players, in other positions.

PS
I actually think that it was silly to get Martinez and Ten Hag from Ajax. Who we should have gone for is Van der Saar as a DOF. That would have been an awesome transfer.
 
Just seen the report around the midfield target and feck me this guy is an amateur. There's no way anyone can convince me that there was any proper planning done this summer. Numerous targets have come and gone to other club, many players who probably would have been available either aren't available anymore or their club/agent senses desperation on our side making it tough to do a deal.

Definitely up there with the 2013 transfer window for incompetence. That was somewhat excusable, I don't think this one is at all.
 
Wildly unqualified so it's little surprise he is hopeless.

Always amused me that Woodwards global search for the ideal DOF ended with appointing one of his mates from within the club even though he had never signed a player in his life nevermind built a title winning side. Who would have guessed that could end badly
 
saivet said:
Just seen the report around the midfield target and feck me this guy is an amateur. There's no way anyone can convince me that there was any proper planning done this summer. Numerous targets have come and gone to other club, many players who probably would have been available either aren't available anymore or their club/agent senses desperation on our side making it tough to do a deal.

Definitely up there with the 2013 transfer window for incompetence. That was somewhat excusable, I don't think this one is at all.
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The manager was announced early, there was enough time to identify weak areas and to make a list for each position of need. Yet here we are.
 
Blood Mage said:
Woodward was much better at his job and that's the most damning thing I can say about this clown. Sack him and hire a proper DOF for feck's sake.
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We won't get anywhere until we hire best in class.

John Murtough is nowhere near best in class.
 
flappyjay said:
The manager was announced early, there was enough time to identify weak areas and to make a list for each position of need. Yet here we are.
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Astonishingly really! A fair few players were leaving on a free which is even easier to plan for too. I can't believe it really. Scrambling for players in positions we knew we'd need in May.
 
Stobzilla said:
You expect wholesale change in a couple of months?

I'm far from a fan of what has happened this summer, but can we at least give this some fecking time before losing our minds? Loads can happen between now and the end of the window.

No opinion on Arnold thus far, but as far as Murtough goes, his legacy so far involves a complete revamping of the youth system which has led to our recent FA Youth Cup success and a couple of really exciting age groups on the way over the next couple of years.

When given time, he has done the job, he gets 18 months in the role to effect change which I think is fair enough for support staff as well as managers.
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No one gives a feck what he did with the U18s and the tin pot cup they won. Its the big boy's league that matters and transfers are central in a DOF's job. Murtough stuck to Ole when he should have sacked him. He then brought Rangnick in, a manager btw whose tactics play completely against our weaknesses and he set him to fail by not bringing in any new signings whatsoever. He then went back on his word regarding the consultant job, he sacked our two chief scouts and he refused to bring someone new to replace Judge as head of negotiations. Bottom line of the story we only signed 3 players (a backup LB, ETH's second choice CB and a free transfer from Brandford with a pace maker) and was only to make money out of just 1 player. We're so desperate that we're now using a scatter gun approach to sign anyone really (from pressing beasts like Cunha, to experienced players like Vardy right to goal poachers like Dembele) There's absolutely no plan whatsoever

That's a mess up of historical proportions.
 
I did say way back the fact that Sancho came in on 350k and he hired his friend from his German jaunt in Ralf to manage the team is quite worrying, plus the whole consultancy role debacle, Ralf would've been best in his job. He's had a lot of time to help things in the right direction if he was the guy to do it but it's not looking likely. Seems as though he wants help and advice and to keep his position that he can't fulfil, like some redundant second overseer.

I'm still willing to see how things go on through the season to the summer as it's a big mess to sort out. I hope ETH can have a chance even if we slump in the league, we're in day 0 with ETH learning about his squad, what he can salvage and what needs ejecting. We have to suffer the pain in readjusting, might even mean Murtough is sacked if he's not learning fast.

Just because he's more a football man than Woodward doesn't warrant the waxing lyrical by some on here. He's fell flat on his face at the first few hurdles.
 
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Murtough need to be fired with immediate effect. Maybe ten Hag could persuade VDS to come as a DOF?
 
Alemar said:
Murtough need to be fired with immediate effect. Maybe ten Hag could persuade VDS to come as a DOF?
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I think VDS does Arnold’s job (CEO). We should have got him instead of Arnold but the Glazers preferred to promote an inept yes man instead
 
devilish said:
No one gives a feck what he did with the U18s and the tin pot cup they won. Its the big boy's league that matters and transfers are central in a DOF's job. Murtough stuck to Ole when he should have sacked him. He then brought Rangnick in, a manager btw whose tactics play completely against our weaknesses and he set him to fail by not bringing in any new signings whatsoever. He then went back on his word regarding the consultant job, he sacked our two chief scouts and he refused to bring someone new to replace Judge as head of negotiations. Bottom line of the story we only signed 3 players (a backup LB, ETH's second choice CB and a free transfer from Brandford with a pace maker) and was only to make money out of just 1 player. We're so desperate that we're now using a scatter gun approach to sign anyone really (from pressing beasts like Cunha, to experienced players like Vardy right to goal poachers like Dembele) There's absolutely no plan whatsoever

That's a mess up of historical proportions.
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There were also reports he made a bit of a mess trying to recruit Bellingham and Haaland. Seemed harsh at the time but given disaster he’s been this window those stories look a lot more plausible.
 
caid said:
Should be sacked September 1st. Be ruthless with failure.
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They kept Woodward for close to a decade and who's solely responsible for the mess we're currently in. What makes you think they're all of a sudden going to be ruthless with failure.
It's going to be another decade of failure because the owners don't give a shite about the club other than making sure it generates money.
That's why Murtough is where he is and why Ralf was given the boot.
 
I think it’s hard to slag off Murtough without knowing a bit more about what we’re doing and why. I know what we’re doing is in fact feck all, but there’s a reason why that is. Apparently Ten Hag wanted the final say over transfers, and if he vetoed all the clubs options then what is Murtough supposed to do? At some point I guess he can say to him look, De Jong isn’t going to happen, let’s move on to someone else. But Ten Hag, I’m assuming is telling everyone he’s heard differently and to hold on for him. It’s a mess but I don’t think Murtough is solely to blame.
 
So it took us about a decade of searching for a director of football and eventually we just decide to hire someone so bad we may as well have just carried on as we were. Bet the Glazers like him though.
 
Is it possible to apply to Murtough’s role? Pretty certain half the Caf would do at least not worse than him…
 
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