I'm not making any claims here, you did that when you said it was common for managers to have their personal scouts. Did you make that up or can you back it up?It is irrelevant because you are claiming our recruitment staff were ignored and Ole and Phelan were running the show. We were happy to overrule Jose, happy to renew contracts without knowing who next manager would be but powerless as soon as Ole and Phelan turned up. Makes zero sense and we’ve also now started to dismantle our Committee so makes your point even more irrelevant.
You think that question is a clever way of proving your point but it is completely misguided and pointless.
I'm not making any claims here, you did that when you said it was common for managers to have their personal scouts. Did you make that up or can you back it up?
I think you'll also notice that a transfer committee doesn't exist in a head coach/DoF setup. So it's not about dismantling something that doesn't have any meaning in the context of how Liverpool and United were running their structures under the manager model.
The club made changes way before today, unless you had your head buried in the sand. And it's due to those changes that Rangnick arrived, along with the potential arrival of ten Hag and why the two scouts left the club.Your claim made no sense initially, now the club making changes themselves makes it completely null and void. Sometimes you just have to hold your hand up and say you were wrong. Comparison to Liverpool made no sense initially and if possible even less so now.
The club made changes way before today, unless you had your head buried in the sand. And it's due to those changes that Rangnick arrived, along with the potential arrival of ten Hag and why the two scouts left the club.
I'm also now going to assume that you fabricated your claim about it being common that managers have their own personal scouts at clubs.
Why was there no veto? Because things had changed again. And unlike under Mourinho where there was a veto, now it took 5 scouts to over-rule Solskjaer on signing players. And below are direct quotes from Solskjaer saying as such and he also repeated the line about the 5 scout rule on MUTV.No need to get tetchy. I said we needed collective accountability and that’s what’s happening, what you said just hasn’t aged well and made no sense to begin with.
Seen you claiming Phelan is reason Maguire is here. Does he look that good in a pair of shorts that he got everyone to change their minds on Maguire, and spend way more money on him, why was there no veto, if people choose to go along with something they don’t agree with why are you not accountable. Why could people stand up to Jose but not Ole. Don’t attempt to answer any of that because don’t need to read any more made up theories.
You have no idea what goes on same as anyone else but your narrative falls apart as soon as any logic is applied.
Why was there no veto? Because things had changed again. And unlike under Mourinho where there was a veto, now it took 5 scouts to over-rule Solskjaer on signing players. And below are direct quotes from Solskjaer saying as such and he also repeated the line about the 5 scout rule on MUTV.
Solskjaer: “The scouting network has been really good, so it’s not like I can just pick someone and, if five of them say no, then I’ll force things through. It’s a team effort there as well. Of course, Bruno has come in and been fantastic for us.”
https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/detail/ole-praises-man-united-scouting-department-as-window-opens
First we had the veto and then we had the 5 scout rule.
Do you know how absurd it is to require 5 scouts to over-rule the manager, when renowned Sporting directors work in teams of 8? The Bruno signing required 5 scouts to over-rule Solskjaer, and do you know how many scouts we have covering Portugal? One, maybe two, so good luck trying to get detailed reports from 5 scouts.You’ve completely misread that I’m afraid what he’s saying is he doesn’t have the power to force it through if ‘say’ five of them say no. That is a hypothetical example not confirmation of a formal procedure, it also confirms recruitment was being done collectively and Ole or even the all powerful Mike Phelan can’t just have his way. Completely undermines your whole argument.
He’s also praising the scouts and showing they work together, all going against your argument.
I would have thought that was pretty obvious.No need to get tetchy. I said we needed collective accountability and that’s what’s happening, what you said just hasn’t aged well and made no sense to begin with.
Seen you claiming Phelan is reason Maguire is here. Does he look that good in a pair of shorts that he got everyone to change their minds on Maguire, and spend way more money on him, why was there no veto, if people choose to go along with something they don’t agree with why are you not accountable. Why could people stand up to Jose but not Ole. Don’t attempt to answer any of that because don’t need to read any more made up theories.
You have no idea what goes on same as anyone else but your narrative falls apart as soon as any logic is applied.
Do you know how absurd it is to require 5 scouts to over-rule the manager, when renowned Sporting directors work in teams of 8? The Bruno signing required 5 scouts to over-rule Solskjaer, and do you know how many scouts we have covering Portugal? One, maybe two, so good luck trying to get detailed reports from 5 scouts.
I know what he said and he repeated the same via MUTV, which is that if 5 scouts disagree with him, then he can't force through deals.Like I said you’ve misread it, he’s not confirming how many have to disagree with him. He’s giving an example to show he can’t just have his way and force through what he wants. You can’t misread things and present them as facts. That link states recruitment is a team effort and decision so your just wrong I’m afraid.
Just how powerful is Murtough now?
It seems he's the central figure of our footballing structure. Fletcher seems to be his Robin.
I've heard he can bench 300lbs.Just how powerful is Murtough now?
It seems he's the central figure of our footballing structure. Fletcher seems to be his Robin.
I'll call for his head when we don't win the quadrupleIt looks like everything pretty ,much revolves around him doesn't he? Seems to be some suggestion that Judge might have left because he's now reporting in to Murtough rather than directly to the CEO.
He's been reading my posts.
He has it all to prove. He's a Glazer stooge as far as I'm concerned, we should have a proper DoF in place.
He has it all to prove. He's a Glazer stooge as far as I'm concerned, we should have a proper DoF in place.
Murtough era so far:
Pros:
1) Appoint ETH
2) Sack the useless scouts
Cons:
1) Appointed wrong interim manager ill suited to the squad
2) Didn't back the manager in Jan window when there are obvious weakness in the squad
3) Threw away a season in Nov without much fight
4) Fail to implement a modern style of play
There are still many areas Man Utd need to improve such as medical, nutrition, fitness, phycology, youth and etc. We really need to catch up fast with Liverpool and City. We are a few years behind.
Good points and as you mentioned - it’s still early days but some decisions seem promising - minus giving Bruno a new contract while he’s been in terrible form.I don’t think one looks at a football director in terms of months, it’s something that takes a couple of years or more to bear fruit, and see the changes start to work.
I’m neither playing devils advocate nor advocating for Murtough, but some thoughts do crop up regarding your cons:
1 We don’t know if another interim would’ve failed any better. It’s possible “interim” was the problem. It’s also worth considering this group of players is just rotten beyond repair. If appointing RR as interim was key to securing his involvement behind the scenes for the two year consultancy, it may yet prove to be the right appointment. I respect RR and I’m glad he’s involved moving forwards, but his work with the squad on a coaching basis has been deeply unimpressive so far.
2. We don’t know if that was his call or not. Or whether the scouts used their vetoes.Woodward was still in charge in January so I don’t think we can lay much blame (not knowingly anyway) at the feet of JM.
3. How did he throw away the season in November? By sacking Ole? Who everyone knew had to go? Or by appointing the wrong interim? (Everything is easier with hindsight - it was an appointment lauded by fans, the media and rival managers alike at the time).
4. He’s not a coach. His job will be to hire managers who have a consistent philosophy, rather than jumping all over the map. And to help bring in players that fit that playing ideology over successive transfer windows. Not sure how he was going to influence the style of play, mid season, without control of recruitment, without knowing who the next permanent manager was.
Im interested to see where this all goes. The restructuring is certainly in line with what you’d want to see, and what most would want to do themselves if given the chance. I think that now he has recently ascended to having full (apparent) control of all football matters, we need to give him a couple of seasons to see the fruits of his strategic intent. Anything more short term than that is somewhat pointless IMO.
He took in charged our academy and the women's team before replacing Ed I believe. I don't know how good our women'ts team now but our youth academy ain't doing bad reaching the final FA Cup youth for first time since 2011.People are looking at Ten Hag to get United back to legitimacy.
But from my eyes, it's Murtough who has the biggest job. He's apparently been given full power over the footballing side, to fix Woodwards various messes.
What do we know about him? I know he was at Fulham and Everton. Not much else. Is there even a video out there of him talking?
Search through @Adnan's posts.People are looking at Ten Hag to get United back to legitimacy.
But from my eyes, it's Murtough who has the biggest job. He's apparently been given full power over the footballing side, to fix Woodwards various messes.
What do we know about him? I know he was at Fulham and Everton. Not much else. Is there even a video out there of him talking?
I don’t think one looks at a football director in terms of months, it’s something that takes a couple of years or more to bear fruit, and see the changes start to work.
I’m neither playing devils advocate nor advocating for Murtough, but some thoughts do crop up regarding your cons:
1 We don’t know if another interim would’ve failed any better. It’s possible “interim” was the problem. It’s also worth considering this group of players is just rotten beyond repair. If appointing RR as interim was key to securing his involvement behind the scenes for the two year consultancy, it may yet prove to be the right appointment. I respect RR and I’m glad he’s involved moving forwards, but his work with the squad on a coaching basis has been deeply unimpressive so far.
2. We don’t know if that was his call or not. Or whether the scouts used their vetoes.Woodward was still in charge in January so I don’t think we can lay much blame (not knowingly anyway) at the feet of JM.
3. How did he throw away the season in November? By sacking Ole? Who everyone knew had to go? Or by appointing the wrong interim? (Everything is easier with hindsight - it was an appointment lauded by fans, the media and rival managers alike at the time).
4. He’s not a coach. His job will be to hire managers who have a consistent philosophy, rather than jumping all over the map. And to help bring in players that fit that playing ideology over successive transfer windows. Not sure how he was going to influence the style of play, mid season, without control of recruitment, without knowing who the next permanent manager was.
Im interested to see where this all goes. The restructuring is certainly in line with what you’d want to see, and what most would want to do themselves if given the chance. I think that now he has recently ascended to having full (apparent) control of all football matters, we need to give him a couple of seasons to see the fruits of his strategic intent. Anything more short term than that is somewhat pointless IMO.
Murtough era so far:
Pros:
1) Appoint ETH
2) Sack the useless scouts
Cons:
1) Appointed wrong interim manager ill suited to the squad
2) Didn't back the manager in Jan window when there are obvious weakness in the squad
3) Threw away a season in Nov without much fight
4) Fail to implement a modern style of play
There are still many areas Man Utd need to improve such as medical, nutrition, fitness, phycology, youth and etc. We really need to catch up fast with Liverpool and City. We are a few years behind.
Pros: got Sancho for a fair bit less than we were quoted the year before. Has helped shake up things behind the scenes. Got Ralf who everybody agreed was a good signing and may be a catalyst for lasting change following some more short term pain. Seems to have improved the youth setup over the years. Got ETH. Mitchell seems like a really good addition if we get him. Finally shipping our squad players instead of protecting “value”
Cons: Sanchos reported wages are nuts. How much power does he actually really have? Stuck by Ole until the season was almost dead. Didn’t help Ralf out in the market in January when it was clear we were going to struggle to create. Basically as Slow as ever to fix major and obvious problems.
About the not signing anyone: I think Ralf said that the scouts couldn't suggest anyone and the board regrets it that we didn't sign anyone. So, after a few months with RR, they decided that the scouts were not up to the job. However, to replace the whole scouting department take months. Thus, I m not sure how are we deciding on what players we want to buy now. Are we going just by ETH's suggestions? If so, I hope he has stolen Ajaxs database.
