I was going to mention senna but he didnt win as much as the other two... for obvious reasons. It might not seem fair but unfortunately sometimes thats just the cookie.
The Greatest Athlete Ever.
- Thread starter Rooney24
- Start date
I was going to mention senna but he didnt win as much as the other two... for obvious reasons. It might not seem fair but unfortunately sometimes thats just the cookie.
Anyway, nobody seemed to have picked Eddy Merckx.
Fantastic rider, won the Tour De France 5 times and the Giro D'Italia 5 times.
Also a 3 time world road race champion and I believe still holds the record for most stage wins on la Tour at 34.
In 1969, he won the overall Tour de France, King of the mountains and points classification in the one event.
An amazing athlete and in my eyes the equal to Lance.
One of my all time favourites has been surprisingly excluded
Jahangir Khan
For power / strength / immense stamina / pace / finesse / mental steel ...
He had the whole package. A record that is beyond reproach - unbeaten in a brutal sport for I think nearly 6/7 years - a winner of countless consecutive world titles and in a sport where there is little time for rests where ( if you played squash you'd know this) your movement is constant
May not be the greatest general athlete of all time but he'd be in my top three for sure
Magnificent athlete
Jahangir Khan
For power / strength / immense stamina / pace / finesse / mental steel ...
He had the whole package. A record that is beyond reproach - unbeaten in a brutal sport for I think nearly 6/7 years - a winner of countless consecutive world titles and in a sport where there is little time for rests where ( if you played squash you'd know this) your movement is constant
May not be the greatest general athlete of all time but he'd be in my top three for sure
Magnificent athlete
He's definately the best cyclist ever. Far greater than Armstrong in my opinion. Merckx won everything, Armstrong just won the Tour 7 times.
Anyway, nobody seemed to have picked Eddy Merckx.
Fantastic rider, won the Tour De France 5 times and the Giro D'Italia 5 times.
Also a 3 time world road race champion and I believe still holds the record for most stage wins on la Tour at 34.
In 1969, he won the overall Tour de France, King of the mountains and points classification in the one event.
An amazing athlete and in my eyes the equal to Lance.
You also have to take into account that the Tour back then was far less interesting compared to now. There were years where Merckx didn't participate because his sponsor didn't deem it important enough.
But in the end, Merckx had over 500 professional victories in his career, including 28 of the so called 'classics'. Nobody even comes close to that.
Even Lance himself admitted that what Merckx (and some others) achieved greatly exceeds his career
And then we haven't talked about the way he won some races. Sometimes he just went off on his own with more than 100km to go and won. Crazy athlete.
But how that relates to other sports is very difficult to say.
In my opinion cyclists are at the very top in terms athleticism. Endurance, power, speed, strength, stamina plus all the mental stuff that goes along with it is amazing.
Awesome fact, sprinters leg press over 400kg per leg
. They generate nearly 800 watts in a sprint which is the equivalent of 1 hp. I know that doesn't sound allot, but for a human thats massive!I agree cyclists are near the top indeed, especially above most team sports athletes I can think of. But there are many other sports that in my opinion are up there as well. Like triathlon for example. I'd rate it even higher than cycling, just because they have to be more complete.In my opinion cyclists are at the very top in terms athleticism. Endurance, power, speed, strength, stamina plus all the mental stuff that goes along with it is amazing.
Awesome fact, sprinters leg press over 400kg per leg
I've also always heard that Formula 1 athletes score highly on all sorts of tests. Endurance, stamina, power, strength, mental attributes, concentration, etc. There are some drivers who participate in triathlons just for training. And the G-forces they have to endure are quite impressive.
I was going to say f1, but thought I might be laughed at.
If you didn't see Topgear with Michael, he noted that he used to get blood samples taken before and after the race to achieve the perfect diet.
That kind of dedication is why he was able to succeed for so long.
People try to downplay him, but he raised the bar far higher then even Senna and Prost ever could.
Throughout the whole of this thread only one mention of Wayne Gretzky!
Taking athelete's out of there best sporting environment and pitting them against others in other sports is so difficult as this thread has proven. Can we decide who is the greatest individual in some of the sports mentioned? So who is the greatest boxer of all time? Greatest motor racing driver/bike rider, cyclist? Then pit them all individually against each other and it still won't come up with a definative answer.
As this is an athele thread, people have discarded the likes of darts, cricket and some what baseball as none atheltic events. Well till the title is defined clearly, a clear answer can't be found, because essentially we are discussing in many ways who's the greatest sportsman of all time, but athlete is a different thing all together.
Taking athelete's out of there best sporting environment and pitting them against others in other sports is so difficult as this thread has proven. Can we decide who is the greatest individual in some of the sports mentioned? So who is the greatest boxer of all time? Greatest motor racing driver/bike rider, cyclist? Then pit them all individually against each other and it still won't come up with a definative answer.
As this is an athele thread, people have discarded the likes of darts, cricket and some what baseball as none atheltic events. Well till the title is defined clearly, a clear answer can't be found, because essentially we are discussing in many ways who's the greatest sportsman of all time, but athlete is a different thing all together.
To be fair, fast bowlers are athletes - so a case can clearly be made for the best ones.
Botham an athlete !
Hehe I s'pose these days they are nearer to athletes than they once were but you're stretching it a bit there
Might be an English thing as I'd say the days of the top West Indian boys Holding Garner Marshall etc were very athletic
That Malcolm Marshall - fkme he could hit the wicket with a bit of oomph - fantastic
Botham an athlete !
Hehe I s'pose these days they are nearer to athletes than they once were but you're stretching it a bit there
Might be an English thing as I'd say the days of the top West Indian boys Holding Garner Marshall etc were very athletic
That Malcolm Marshall - fkme he could hit the wicket with a bit of oomph - fantastic
Point taken. But the likes of Holding, Marshall, Garner, Roberts, Croft, Lillee, Imran, Donald, Akram, Lee, Akhtar et al - clearly were/are.
And yeah Marshall was great indeed. Windies cricket - what a shame.
Johnty Rhodes was a bit of an athlete, to be fair. Roger Harper was another one - great in the field.
Mayweather is the better boxer out of the two, in my opinion, and that's hardly a ridiculous claim. The thing that puts Ali head in the eyes of most of the world is his story.
I would also say Sugar Ray Robinson was a better boxer.
Where do you draw the line with batsmen?
F1 drivers are rated as athletes because the amount of endurance they need to withstand a complete race. When Sehwag(to pick a recent example) made that triple hundred in Chennai, the weather was almost burning hot. To go out there and play for a whole day, while smacking the ball around and making 300 runs in a single day.. surely that grades him on the same level as an F1 driver?
I remember the day very clearly because I was at uni and couldn't sit in class because of the heat. Till then, I didn't rate the endurance levels of a cricket player much.
F1 drivers are rated as athletes because the amount of endurance they need to withstand a complete race. When Sehwag(to pick a recent example) made that triple hundred in Chennai, the weather was almost burning hot. To go out there and play for a whole day, while smacking the ball around and making 300 runs in a single day.. surely that grades him on the same level as an F1 driver?
I remember the day very clearly because I was at uni and couldn't sit in class because of the heat. Till then, I didn't rate the endurance levels of a cricket player much.
Sugar Ray's probably the greatest pound for pound boxer, ever. But Ali's been in so many wars, faught against the odds - and nearly always come out on top. He's the greatest for many reasons. Great athletes don't just have 'god given' ability but they have the heart of a champion - winning when all seemed lost. Ali had the lot - not bad considering he lost his best years. When Mayweather gets beat(and when he decides to fight),we'll see just how great he is.
Sehwag extremely talented but he's not that much of an athlete.
That's not my question, though. How is that any different from Fernando Alonso sitting in his car for 60 odd laps?
To be fair, F1 drivers are uber fit. They have to be.
I'd guess because that type of situation happens once in 10 tests, whereas Alonso has to sit in his car every other week. Also batting well is really enjoyable which makes it less tiring.
I wish to point out that I did say some people have discarded cricketers as being athletes, but till a general opinion on what constitutes an athlete, we have to consider all sportsmen and women as athletes.
Talk earlier in this thread centred on some of the multisport athlete's from the USA, which is fine, but by doing that you do indeed bring in Botham, who played football, league football to boot. We shouldn't fail to recognise the talent of Rebecca Romero, who has won Olympic medals in two completely different sports recently, and also won world championships in both rowing and cycling.
Talk earlier in this thread centred on some of the multisport athlete's from the USA, which is fine, but by doing that you do indeed bring in Botham, who played football, league football to boot. We shouldn't fail to recognise the talent of Rebecca Romero, who has won Olympic medals in two completely different sports recently, and also won world championships in both rowing and cycling.
Sir Steve Redgrave for me in terms of acheivement, won a gold medal at five consecutive Olympic Games.
Special mention for Emil Zatopek who in the 1952 Olympic Games won gold medals in the 5,000 metres, 10,000 metres and the Marathon, which is a crazy thing to do.
Special mention for Emil Zatopek who in the 1952 Olympic Games won gold medals in the 5,000 metres, 10,000 metres and the Marathon, which is a crazy thing to do.
Mayweather you can make an arguement for but Pacquiao? the man that only in the past 2 years learnt how to throw a punch whilst balanced?
The fact you named these two as examples says it all. Id take Robinson over Ali but a near prime Ali (he never got to fight in his prime the closest we saw was his performance against Clevland Williams) would pound for pound take 99.9% of fighters.
Had a great chin, inhuman speed of foot and hand, tactical genius, better power than people know of. So please tell me how Pac would beat him or even Mayweather?
Muhammed Ali
Jesse Owens
Steve Redgrave
Jesse Owens
Steve Redgrave
Oh my gosh so his ability had nothing to do with it?
They say Pacquiao has speed? Enjoy
Oh my gosh so his ability had nothing to do with it?
They say Pacquiao has speed? Enjoy
To be fair, he's probably not watched much boxing.
That makes it even worse, uninformed opinions are the worst kind.
Well done.
I spent my life from the age of 11-18 in a boxing gym.
What makes you an expert CLK? Is it because you had your first amateur fight, what, 4 months ago now?
Not at all so you spent 7 years in a gym I have been watching boxing since I was about 7 when I mistook a Hagler Hearns tape for wrestling (I mistook Hearns Hitman nick name for Bret Heart).
Regardless if I had my first amateur bout 4 months ago or you boxed for 7 years I have watched boxing all my life and that was one of the most laughable boxing related opinions I have heard
Regardless if I had my first amateur bout 4 months ago or you boxed for 7 years I have watched boxing all my life and that was one of the most laughable boxing related opinions I have heard
Look, if you were to ask boxing analysts, a good amount, if not most, would agree with me that Ali was not the greatest boxer of all time. There have been a good few who were technically better fighters, including one or two that are still fighting today. Don't get me wrong, I think he was a great fighter, but he came along at the pefect time in order to be propelled into superstadom. As a package (the whole story he brought with him, civil rights issues etc), Ali makes a great icon for the sport in the eyes of non-boxing fans, but in pure boxing terms, he was not the greatest.
Skill wise in terms of how he was put together, his jab, foot speed, hand speed, head movement etc he was close, thats why Ali usually sits around 2 in most P4P lists behind SRR
If you think Pac could beat Ali P4P, I ask you how?
If you think Pac could beat Ali P4P, I ask you how?
While I have the upmost respect for boxers 'anybody that has even tried to throw punches for 3 minuets knows how hard it is', I don't think that they are quite as supreme as say a sprinter or cyclists or even an f1 driver for that matter.
Good athletes, but you can't really say that any of them bar Ali has ever had that Aura of 'im the shit so take a big whiff'.
I don't want to sound cynical, but I think Rocky glorified boxing. The same can be said for Topgun and the airforce.
Speaking of Topgun, imagine the poor bastards that got so pumped after watching it that went and tried to recruit as pilots only to be told that they were either too stupid, didn't have quick enough reflexes or perfect vision.
Good athletes, but you can't really say that any of them bar Ali has ever had that Aura of 'im the shit so take a big whiff'.
I don't want to sound cynical, but I think Rocky glorified boxing. The same can be said for Topgun and the airforce.
Speaking of Topgun, imagine the poor bastards that got so pumped after watching it that went and tried to recruit as pilots only to be told that they were either too stupid, didn't have quick enough reflexes or perfect vision.
Well most boxing people I've spoken too think Ali's abilities, specifically considering his weight to movement ratio, are a miracle of human fitness. How a man weighing that could move like a light middle is incredible
There may be better technical fighters in respect of small details but the whole package makes him for me the greatest - a physical phenomenon in my book
Haile Gebrselassie
Honors
* 1993 World Championships in Athletics
o 10,000 metre gold medal
o 5,000 metre silver medal
* 1993 African Championships in Athletics
o 5,000 metre silver medal
o 10,000 metre bronze medal
* 1994 IAAF World Cross Country Championships – bronze medal
* 1996 Summer Olympics
o 10,000 m gold medal
* 1997 World Championships in Athletics
o 10,000 m gold medal
* 1997 IAAF World Indoor Championships
o 3,000 m gold medal
* 1999 World Championships in Athletics
o 10,000 m gold medal
* 1999 IAAF World Indoor Championships
o 1,500 m gold medal
* 2000 Summer Olympics
o 10,000 m gold medal
* 2001 World Championships in Athletics
o 10,000 m bronze medal
* 2001 IAAF World Half Marathon Championships winner
* 2003 IAAF World Indoor Championships
o 3,000 m gold medal
* 2003 World Championships in Athletics
o 10,000 m silver medal
World Record and 'World Best' performances
Distance Mark Date Location Notes
5000 metres 12:56.96 1994-06-04 Hengelo, Netherlands
Two miles 8:07.46 1995-05-27 Kerkrade, Netherlands world best
10,000 metres 26:43.53 1995-06-05 Hengelo, Netherlands
5,000 metres 12:44.39 1995-08-16 Zurich, Switzerland
5,000 metres 13:10.98 1996-01-27 Sindelfingen, Germany, indoors
3,000 metres 7:30.72 1996-02-04 Stuttgart, Germany, indoors
5,000 metres 12:59.04 1997-02-20 Stockholm, Sweden indoors
Two miles 8:01.08 1997-05-31 Hengelo, Netherlands
10,000 metres 26:31.32 1997-07-04 Oslo, Norway
5,000 metres 12:41.86 1997-08-13 Zurich, Switzerland
3,000 metres 7:26.15 1998-01-25 Karlsruhe, Germany indoors
2,000 metres 4:52.86 1998-02-15 Birmingham, UK indoors
10,000 metres 26:22.75 1998-06-01 Hengelo, Netherlands
5,000 metres 12:39.36 1998-06-13 Helsinki, Finland
5,000 metres 12:50.38 1999-02-14 Birmingham, UK indoors
10 kilometres 27:02 2002-12-11 Doha, Qatar road race
Two miles 8:04.69 2003-02-21 Birmingham, UK, indoors
15 kilometres 41:22 2005-09-04 Tilburg, Netherlands road race, not IAAF-ratified
10 miles 44:24 2005-09-04 Tilburg, Netherlands road race, world best
20 kilometres 55:48 2006-01-15 Tempe, Arizona, USA en route to half-marathon
Half marathon 58:55 2006-01-15 Tempe, Arizona, USA
25 kilometres 1:11:37 2006-03-12 Alphen aan den Rijn, Netherlands road race, not IAAF-ratified – no post-race EPO test
20,000 metres 56:25.98 2007-06-27 Ostrava, Czech Republic, en route to one hour record
One hour run 21,285 m 2007-06-27 Ostrava, Czech Republic
Marathon 2:04:26 2007-09-30 Berlin, Germany
Marathon 2:03:59 2008-09-28 Berlin, Germany current world record
Personal bests
Outdoors
Distance Mark Date Location
1,500 m 3:33.73 1999-06-06 Stuttgart
Mile 3:52.39 1999-06-27 Gateshead
3,000 m 7:25.09 1998-08-28 Brussels
Two miles 8:01.08 1997-05-31 Hengelo
5,000 m 12:39.36 1998-06-13 Helsinki
10,000 m 26:22.75 1998-06-01 Hengelo
10 km (road) 27:02 2002-12-11 Ad-Dawhah
15 km (road) 41:38 2001-11-11 Nijmegen
Ten miles (road) 44:24 2005-09-04 Tilburg
20,000 m (track) 56:26.0 2007-06-27 Ostrava, Czech Republic
One hour (track) 21,285 m 2007-06-27 Ostrava, Czech Republic
20 km (road)* 55:48 2006-01-15 Phoenix
Half marathon 58:55 2006-01-15 Phoenix
25 km (road) 1:11:37 2006-03-12 Alphen aan den Rijn (not recognised by IAAF)
Marathon 2:03:59 2008-09-28 Berlin
Indoors
Distance Mark Date Location
1,500 m 3:31.76 1998-02-01 Stuttgart
2,000 m 4:52.86 1998-02-15 Birmingham
3,000 m 7:26.15 1998-01-25 Karlsruhe
Two miles 8:04.69 2003-02-21 Birmingham
5,000 m 12:50.38 1999-02-14 Birmingham
Honors
* 1993 World Championships in Athletics
o 10,000 metre gold medal
o 5,000 metre silver medal
* 1993 African Championships in Athletics
o 5,000 metre silver medal
o 10,000 metre bronze medal
* 1994 IAAF World Cross Country Championships – bronze medal
* 1996 Summer Olympics
o 10,000 m gold medal
* 1997 World Championships in Athletics
o 10,000 m gold medal
* 1997 IAAF World Indoor Championships
o 3,000 m gold medal
* 1999 World Championships in Athletics
o 10,000 m gold medal
* 1999 IAAF World Indoor Championships
o 1,500 m gold medal
* 2000 Summer Olympics
o 10,000 m gold medal
* 2001 World Championships in Athletics
o 10,000 m bronze medal
* 2001 IAAF World Half Marathon Championships winner
* 2003 IAAF World Indoor Championships
o 3,000 m gold medal
* 2003 World Championships in Athletics
o 10,000 m silver medal
World Record and 'World Best' performances
Distance Mark Date Location Notes
5000 metres 12:56.96 1994-06-04 Hengelo, Netherlands
Two miles 8:07.46 1995-05-27 Kerkrade, Netherlands world best
10,000 metres 26:43.53 1995-06-05 Hengelo, Netherlands
5,000 metres 12:44.39 1995-08-16 Zurich, Switzerland
5,000 metres 13:10.98 1996-01-27 Sindelfingen, Germany, indoors
3,000 metres 7:30.72 1996-02-04 Stuttgart, Germany, indoors
5,000 metres 12:59.04 1997-02-20 Stockholm, Sweden indoors
Two miles 8:01.08 1997-05-31 Hengelo, Netherlands
10,000 metres 26:31.32 1997-07-04 Oslo, Norway
5,000 metres 12:41.86 1997-08-13 Zurich, Switzerland
3,000 metres 7:26.15 1998-01-25 Karlsruhe, Germany indoors
2,000 metres 4:52.86 1998-02-15 Birmingham, UK indoors
10,000 metres 26:22.75 1998-06-01 Hengelo, Netherlands
5,000 metres 12:39.36 1998-06-13 Helsinki, Finland
5,000 metres 12:50.38 1999-02-14 Birmingham, UK indoors
10 kilometres 27:02 2002-12-11 Doha, Qatar road race
Two miles 8:04.69 2003-02-21 Birmingham, UK, indoors
15 kilometres 41:22 2005-09-04 Tilburg, Netherlands road race, not IAAF-ratified
10 miles 44:24 2005-09-04 Tilburg, Netherlands road race, world best
20 kilometres 55:48 2006-01-15 Tempe, Arizona, USA en route to half-marathon
Half marathon 58:55 2006-01-15 Tempe, Arizona, USA
25 kilometres 1:11:37 2006-03-12 Alphen aan den Rijn, Netherlands road race, not IAAF-ratified – no post-race EPO test
20,000 metres 56:25.98 2007-06-27 Ostrava, Czech Republic, en route to one hour record
One hour run 21,285 m 2007-06-27 Ostrava, Czech Republic
Marathon 2:04:26 2007-09-30 Berlin, Germany
Marathon 2:03:59 2008-09-28 Berlin, Germany current world record
Personal bests
Outdoors
Distance Mark Date Location
1,500 m 3:33.73 1999-06-06 Stuttgart
Mile 3:52.39 1999-06-27 Gateshead
3,000 m 7:25.09 1998-08-28 Brussels
Two miles 8:01.08 1997-05-31 Hengelo
5,000 m 12:39.36 1998-06-13 Helsinki
10,000 m 26:22.75 1998-06-01 Hengelo
10 km (road) 27:02 2002-12-11 Ad-Dawhah
15 km (road) 41:38 2001-11-11 Nijmegen
Ten miles (road) 44:24 2005-09-04 Tilburg
20,000 m (track) 56:26.0 2007-06-27 Ostrava, Czech Republic
One hour (track) 21,285 m 2007-06-27 Ostrava, Czech Republic
20 km (road)* 55:48 2006-01-15 Phoenix
Half marathon 58:55 2006-01-15 Phoenix
25 km (road) 1:11:37 2006-03-12 Alphen aan den Rijn (not recognised by IAAF)
Marathon 2:03:59 2008-09-28 Berlin
Indoors
Distance Mark Date Location
1,500 m 3:31.76 1998-02-01 Stuttgart
2,000 m 4:52.86 1998-02-15 Birmingham
3,000 m 7:26.15 1998-01-25 Karlsruhe
Two miles 8:04.69 2003-02-21 Birmingham
5,000 m 12:50.38 1999-02-14 Birmingham
What a "track" record
This....
is a very important point often overlooked by our youngsters today (and some of the oldies). Ali moved around like he was Sugar Ray Leanord but facing much heavier body punches and with his own heavier bodyweight to cope with (obviously being a heavy-weight).
Plus, like Spoony says, the heart of a lion. Often overlooked in the sporting world as irrelevant.
Fedor Emelianenko.
I know Mixed martial arts are really in their infancy, but consider that this guy very likely could beat any man that has ever walked the planet.
He at the very least deserves to be mentioned.
Boxing is a function of natural ability.
Size is also natural.
You could be the worlds best mathematician with an IQ below 70, but that doesn't make you the worlds best mathematician.
Smaller weight divisions exist, so it is fair, right? However life isn't fair. Manny is curse with a 4'2 body. So he is the best of the midgets, but he is still a midget.
The greatest boxers of all time are all heavy weights, because they would whip everyone from every other division.
In the infancy of boxing, I don't really know who you could classify as the greatest. So much of it is hearsay since many of those fights exist only as reports. Certainly Marciano, Dempsey are in with a shout.
Ali certainly was the best from his era, Lewis was the best from his.
That said, Lewis would beat Ali 9x out of 10.
The evolution of sport proves this. Athletes are consistently getting bigger, stronger, faster and their technique is always improving. They are the offspring of all that hard earned knowledge passed down generation to generation.