The general attitude of our players

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AndySmith1990 said:
Don't need to watch Leicester to know that. Watching Ferguson's United for 25 years showed me all I ever needed to know about how important hard work and a good attitude is.
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Very true and certainly felt that when watching his film on Amazon Prime the other night
 
thegregster said:


:lol:

These players.
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It just baffles me the way footballers behave, it's not anything I've ever experienced in a professional working environment. You get paid to do a job to the best of your abilities, not bitch and moan and worry about fecking "cliques" like insecure children.

I'm pretty sure the mood has been very low at some point under every manager we've had, all for different reasons. I can only assume being a moody dickhead is one of the criteria our scouting team look for when creating their shortlists.
 
Baily recalled by United as he was about to fly out to African Nations
 
thegregster said:


:lol:

These players.
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This has to be satire , they're millionaires not kids for gods sake

For all the shit keane and souness get for their in my time boomer commentary (everyone does it no matter the generation) they speak a lot of sense, players have really become like petulant kids

Its just sad or maybe I've became too jaded and cynical :(
 
A lot of players seem to be lacking in mental fortitude in terms of fighting to win the ball back, wining second balls, covering space on the field and movement off the ball....you can aim a lot of those things towards attitude and desire.

For me thats half the problem with the players. The other problem is I keep hearing pundits saying what a quality side of individuals we have so its shockign how poor we are....I disagree, with the ball we have so many started lacking in quality with the ball McFred being obvious examples of this but there are certainly others lacking and then some of our best are consistently really sloppy Pogba in the wrong areas, Fernandes probably gives the ball away 70% of the time tryng things, Rashford without space to run in to offers little of his tricks and so many of our players seem incapable of doing little but passign sideways or backwards in the middle of the park, we have a plethora of over rated players in this side for me, couldnt even fill one hand with players really deserving the shirt in this side
 
thegregster said:





Already gone crying to the media. What a surprise.
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FFS are these bunch of primadonnas genuinely afraid of intense training sessions, Ralf needs a central midfielder this window to come in and shake this lot up
 
Shower of unlikeable dossers. I thought Ole had fixed that issue, but appears to be another squad full of wasters.
 
If true regardless of your view of RR, that is just next level laughable, they aint used to because they had some type of way under Ole also are they even scouting players outside their footballing skills, i mean what the feck are those rumours.
 
Over the last few years whichever hurdle they fell at they were excused, with the last manager leaving much of the well wishing has. From a distance, such a dislikable group of players.
 
I genuinely dislike most of this squad, only players I can stand at the moment are Cavani, De Gea and the Youth players. I wouldn’t care if the lot of them just left. We have a truly long rebuild ahead. An actual exorcism is needed at Carrington
 
Stig said:
All the posts in this thread are reiterating exactly what Gary Neville said after the game; basically something stinks and it is the players' attitudes and lack of team spirit.
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Alemar
This is pretty obvious, but the real question is what is the reason underneath? Why?


I think that I can perhaps answer this. In his autobiography ( not everything here will be verbatim so please allow some artistic lisence as I no longer have the book) he announced in 2001 and he says that the players basically downed tools. Despite who he was , and what he had achieved he says the majority of players knowing he wasn't there for much longer simply stopped playing for him. Then over the Christmas break he has a chat with Mrs. Ferguson and comes back and tells them "I'm not retiring." I think he then says something like, we didn't lose another league game that season and won the the league.

So if SAF with all his greatness loses the dressing room when they know he is no longer there for the long run, how hard must it be for a manager who is announced as the interim manager to get the players to commit for him ? I suspect that he has many different ways of doing things from the previous regime, tactics, training, video analysis, fitness, psychology and many of them may be thinking, " I can't be arsed with this and he's gone in May, and maybe I will ask for a transfer as the club's going nowhere anyway"

Some will be thinking well if those 5 aren't trying in training or on the pitch I can't be bothered either so let's just wander around and see not the summer brings.

I think announcing an interim manager was setting him up for failure.

I found this paragraph to be the most illuminating in the whole book. When they thought he was leaving they simply stopped trying and when he said," I'm staying" they went on a run and won the league.
 
Stig said:
Alemar
This is pretty obvious, but the real question is what is the reason underneath? Why?


I think that I can perhaps answer this. In his autobiography ( not everything here will be verbatim so please allow some artistic lisence as I no longer have the book) he announced in 2001 and he says that the players basically downed tools. Despite who he was , and what he had achieved he says the majority of players knowing he wasn't there for much longer simply stopped playing for him. Then over the Christmas break he has a chat with Mrs. Ferguson and comes back and tells them "I'm not retiring." I think he then says something like, we didn't lose another league game that season and won the the league.

So if SAF with all his greatness loses the dressing room when they know he is no longer there for the long run, how hard must it be for a manager who is announced as the interim manager to get the players to commit for him ? I suspect that he has many different ways of doing things from the previous regime, tactics, training, video analysis, fitness, psychology and many of them may be thinking, " I can't be arsed with this and he's gone in May, and maybe I will ask for a transfer as the club's going nowhere anyway"

Some will be thinking well if those 5 aren't trying in training or on the pitch I can't be bothered either so let's just wander around and see not the summer brings.

I think announcing an interim manager was setting him up for failure.

I found this paragraph to be the most illuminating in the whole book. When they thought he was leaving they simply stopped trying and when he said," I'm staying" they went on a run and won the league.
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Good point and that is what many people thought happened at the time. Another factor was losing Steve McLaren as coach, who took the Middlesbrough manager's job when Fergie announced his retirement. There was always a dip in performances when Fergie didn't have a good coach working alongside him.
 
Stig said:
Alemar
This is pretty obvious, but the real question is what is the reason underneath? Why?


I think that I can perhaps answer this. In his autobiography ( not everything here will be verbatim so please allow some artistic lisence as I no longer have the book) he announced in 2001 and he says that the players basically downed tools. Despite who he was , and what he had achieved he says the majority of players knowing he wasn't there for much longer simply stopped playing for him. Then over the Christmas break he has a chat with Mrs. Ferguson and comes back and tells them "I'm not retiring." I think he then says something like, we didn't lose another league game that season and won the the league.

So if SAF with all his greatness loses the dressing room when they know he is no longer there for the long run, how hard must it be for a manager who is announced as the interim manager to get the players to commit for him ? I suspect that he has many different ways of doing things from the previous regime, tactics, training, video analysis, fitness, psychology and many of them may be thinking, " I can't be arsed with this and he's gone in May, and maybe I will ask for a transfer as the club's going nowhere anyway"

Some will be thinking well if those 5 aren't trying in training or on the pitch I can't be bothered either so let's just wander around and see not the summer brings.

I think announcing an interim manager was setting him up for failure.

I found this paragraph to be the most illuminating in the whole book. When they thought he was leaving they simply stopped trying and when he said," I'm staying" they went on a run and won the league.
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The issue with this squad is it’s composition, our interim manager is going to be moving upstairs with a hand in recruitment & departures - in work the last thing you want to do is upset your bosses boss which is what he may de facto become. The squad is full of players who’ve never truly been tasked with winning at the club & have shown that whenever the expectations rise, they do not.

Fans have reasoned away every cup loss or poor run of league form for 3+ years & now wonder why said players lack internal/external drive.

The difference between SAF & Ralf are stark. He was set up to fail because this squad wasn’t as good as people were peddling & is full of the wrong type of mentalities. I don’t like interim managers personally but when 5+ players were leaving before he even started it’s difficult to judge him on their buy in. We were mismanaged terribly by the previous regime.
 
Rashford doesn’t like his football coming in between his politics
 
My moneys on Rangnick doing all the right things and these players that have had their own way under Ole have had a wake up call.

If they wanted a manager that let them play how they want then they should've played better under Ole.

But they played shit and it led to us sacking the pashun manager for an actual coach. They need to suck it up and try playing well and winning matches.

That's their job after all.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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What's really abhorrent about this is that these little privileged prima donnas are expecting that leaks like these will lead to sympathy.

Truly some different world thinking from these people at a time when livelihoods are being devastated and they are whining about staying after dark on a winter night.
 
There is undoubtedly a real problem at the club with these long contracts and very high wages. The players know they have the club by the balls so have the gall to complain about stuff like this.

The individual egotistical nature of our team does not surprise me one bit.
 
devilish said:
This is how I see the team

GK: DDG is a fantastic shot stopper but he provides little else. I don't see that as a criticism for two reasons. First of all this guy had been bailing out for years, secondly he's part of the furniture so all managers could and should have built a defence that works with him around.

DC: Maguire is the typical old fashioned stereotype English CB. He's big, he's tough, he's slow and he's not particularly bright. For some reason he think he's some Rio Ferdinand and will try to either go forward with the ball or give these long range passes. That's not how he should be played. The guy should be playing deep (which would compliment DDG as the guy would never leave his small box) and told that's he's not particularly bright. The only CB we've got to compliment him is Varane. The French man has talent, pace and experience. However Varane is constantly injured and gegenpressing won't help on that at all.

FBs: We've got two options here. Dalot is decent going forward but weak in defending. AWB is like a RB stuck to 80s football. He can be decent in defending but he's shit going forward. None of them is good enough to play with United. Shaw can be decent but he's hardly WC and Telles is great going forward but is not a great defender either. So in my opinion, if we're playing Telles then AWB should play. If we're playing Dalot then Shaw must play.

DM: Do we have one? The answer is no. McT is B2B and quite frankly he's not a good player either. Fred is also B2B and is slightly better then McT while Matic is more finished then Bryan Robson after a night of binge drinking night followed by a brawl against Tyson Fury. God knows why smiley kept him (and Mata, and Grant, and brought Heaton in, and kept Lingard here, and VDB etc)

B2B: If we had a top DM then maybe we could play VDB there. Since we don't then McFred pretty much pick themselves. I won't mention Pogba as its evident that his heart is not there.

AMC: Bruno's performances had nosedived since he decided that he's a shadow striker. Someone should really put the guy back in the box as he thinks that he's some sort of a Zidane, Charlton and Maradona wrapped in one. VDB was never really given a shot, Martial is too lazy, Lingard is too shit, Sancho is a winger and Mata is more spent then Matic is

STK: Ronaldo needs to whinge less and deliver more, same can be said about Mother Theresa of Manchester, Greenwood is a generational talent but he hardly has any role models on the pitch and its showing, Cavani is mint when fit.

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What the club should do

Invest heavily in January - A new CM is the bare minimum, we really need two.
Get rid of players. Jones, Pogba, Martial, Lingard, Matic and Mata should go. Its time we set up standards at this point. More players should be added to the list in summer

What the manager should do

A- Spot the rotten apples and sell
B- Gegenpressing is fabulous but this team isn't even bothered to run. Maybe a tweak is needed in our tempo and then we can progress once and if things hit the ground running.
C- 4-2-2-2 is as common in EPL football as Aramaic is at No 10. Asking these players (who are not particularly motivated and bright) to adapt to a new system, a new tempo and start passing the ball at blistering speed/accuracy, during mid season, is a bit too much. Most won't be able to do it in a life time let alone a couple of weeks.

Thus he should go for a system that they comprehend (4-3-3?) and maybe he should demand less from his players.
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excellent its not easy to clean this mess like you said, Isnt it ? City bought 10 players in one season (arounnd 450M) but we may not do something like that so it will take time here it seems..

Really feeling so sad to see our club in this situation
 
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Was it Watford Bruno pointed to the players and said it’s them, it’s them, maybe he wasn’t far off the mark after all.
 
Stig said:
Alemar
This is pretty obvious, but the real question is what is the reason underneath? Why?


I think that I can perhaps answer this. In his autobiography ( not everything here will be verbatim so please allow some artistic lisence as I no longer have the book) he announced in 2001 and he says that the players basically downed tools. Despite who he was , and what he had achieved he says the majority of players knowing he wasn't there for much longer simply stopped playing for him. Then over the Christmas break he has a chat with Mrs. Ferguson and comes back and tells them "I'm not retiring." I think he then says something like, we didn't lose another league game that season and won the the league.

So if SAF with all his greatness loses the dressing room when they know he is no longer there for the long run, how hard must it be for a manager who is announced as the interim manager to get the players to commit for him ? I suspect that he has many different ways of doing things from the previous regime, tactics, training, video analysis, fitness, psychology and many of them may be thinking, " I can't be arsed with this and he's gone in May, and maybe I will ask for a transfer as the club's going nowhere anyway"

Some will be thinking well if those 5 aren't trying in training or on the pitch I can't be bothered either so let's just wander around and see not the summer brings.

I think announcing an interim manager was setting him up for failure.

I found this paragraph to be the most illuminating in the whole book. When they thought he was leaving they simply stopped trying and when he said," I'm staying" they went on a run and won the league.
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I agree.

I would also add he's not been able to bring in a team of like minded coaches, so it must be hard not having others backing up his ideas and authority.
 
These are grown men who we’ve made rich and famous beyond their wildest dreams and they still won’t put their full effort in. Playing in front of 75,000 at home and hundreds of millions around the world and they want to throw their toys out of the pram over training times and cliques in the dressing room. It’s beyond brutal. Man child Utd fc. How many chances are some of these players on? They know the owners will protect them because we can barely bring ourselves to sell anyone.
 
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The culture at the club seems rotten and outdated. When Zlatan commented on matters at the club recently, you can’t help but see that it’s the truth.

The club is archaic in how its run. The players are a bunch of whingers. Didn’t some leaks happen that Bruno thinks most of the squad don’t give a shit?

From the top down, the club isn’t run as the so called biggest club in the world.
 
Deery said:
Was it Watford Bruno pointed to the players and said it’s them, it’s them, maybe he wasn’t far off the mark after all.
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What ? No idea what you are talking about ?
 
thegregster said:





Already gone crying to the media. What a surprise.
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This is good news.

The current problem isn't just about Ole. Or Ole's coaches. Or even the quality of the players.

The current problem is the culture that has developed in the dressing room in the last few weeks/months.

I'm sure we've all been in workplaces where everything feels a little bit off. Where all your colleagues look down in the dumps. Where every business system and business processes don't quite work. Where there's a casualness rather than professionalism to the way people work. Where everybody seems to be avoiding personal responsibility because if they did, that would be like admitting overall responsibility.

This feels to me like the dressing room needs a shock to the system. We had that shock for about 30 minutes in the Crystal Palace game so it isn't beyond the ability of the squad. But Rangnick's job is to bring them out of their funk. No matter what it takes.

Making them unhappy about finishing in the dark is good start. Breaking up cliques would also be helpful. Possibly even flipping training sessions upside down to make them the complete opposite of what they've been used to.

Basically, Manchester United's players need slap in the face to wake them up and bring them out of their malaise. And it needs to be done through fair means or foul. Drill sergeant Rangnick is doing the right thing.
 
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