The First Redcafe Sheep Draft

Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I don't think hinting can be considered cheating
If you hint at a popular player, it may invite intentional blocks. With 3 round options, this is a reality!
Hinting does not avoid sheeps. In the above round anto & cutch pretty much knew the blocks, yet went ahead.

As long as it is not obvious, I don't see anything wrong.
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The only thing I dont get is where that line is supposedly drawn. Ive seen plenty of hints so obvious it can only be one player so just stating which player you would pick would work equally well.

What is the difference in hinting that you will pick someone and saying his name. In both cases you can be playing mind games and in both cases it is very obvious when a manager is cheating or not. If someone consistently makes obvious hints and then follows it up by picking the said player then that is the same as naming the player then picking him.

From an outside perspective this draft has been abused a bit in terms of this like Crappy is saying.
 
Annahnomoss said:
The only thing I dont get is where that line is supposedly drawn. Ive seen plenty of hints so obvious it can only be one player so just stating which player you would pick would work equally well.

What is the difference in hinting that you will pick someone and saying his name. In both cases you can be playing mind games and in both cases it is very obvious when a manager is cheating or not. If someone consistently makes obvious hints and then follows it up by picking the said player then that is the same as naming the player then picking him.

From an outside perspective this draft has been abused a bit in terms of this like Crappy is saying.
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Yes it is hard to draw that line and in hindsight, we should have gotten any player reference banned. I thought what Anto did in round 1 was alright, with naming 4-5 players by descriptions and never mentioning if he himself is going for one. Singular references to any player should not be allowed.
 
MJJ said:
So who are we waiting for now?

And I agree with crappy that giving hints should really not be on.
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Aldo might have gone to bed himself... anto will be up much later as well so we may be waiting for some time.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
@antohan @Pippa I think it's time to stop, let the game do it's bit.. After my Kahn incident I recall Aldo asking to stop any kind of "implications" or in your case, basically telling each other..
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crappycraperson said:
I see people were happily giving off 'hints' against last night.
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I have absolutely no idea who Pippa was referring to, sounded like a completely made up player actually. It's funny how you keep complaining about "hints" despite having no idea who people are talking about.
 
Cutch said:
Aye the surprise element was ruined tbf as soon as Anto started mentionin big heads. Knew then that he too had picked Ruggeri.
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In the previous rounds I've used that to see if people started getting uppity about that player, not always following through or intending to do so. I really had no idea which of three finals to go for, I just ultimately picked that one because it was the most likely one to resut in a double block and at worst there were some handy fallbacks.

I'm submitting the next final which was, other things aside, the one I wanted to begin with.
 
Aldo's probably asleep, is @kps88 around? I really want this round to be over, still feel a bit sick about Scholl :(. Should have picked him instead of Klinsmann in round 5 :mad:.
 
That was very mean from Gio.

I've submitted. Good thing Aldo didn't go with my original second choice as I swapped it for my 3rd. Basically going for the more difficult one to survive if one of the two is blocked. Balls on the table. I'm not too fussed if I have to take a rather average (but suitable) forward instead of the blocked keeper, so long as I do get that defender. Beast.

Go on, say it's obvious, place your bets on the obvious final.
 
antohan said:
That was very mean from Gio.

I've submitted. Good thing Aldo didn't go with my original second choice as I swapped it for my 3rd. Basically going for the more difficult one to survive if one of the two is blocked. Balls on the table. I'm not too fussed if I have to take a rather average (but suitable) forward instead of the blocked keeper, so long as I do get that defender. Beast.

Go on, say it's obvious, place your bets on the obvious final.
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Rafael-Nadal.jpg
 
antohan said:
That was very mean from Gio.
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There's nothing mean about it. I actually think it's great that someone else wanted him in his team. Sucks that he got blocked though, that's the sad thing about it and it might cost me my prefered formation.
 
antohan said:
I have absolutely no idea who Pippa was referring to, sounded like a completely made up player actually. It's funny how you keep complaining about "hints" despite having no idea who people are talking about.
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It is irrelevant if people get the hints not, if half the people think it is cheating it should not be hard to stop.
 
But we all knew you wanted him!

Anyhow, a bit worried about the pair I picked. The entire play is based on wanting the defender, who may welll be gone due to another final, then I'm stuck with that final and 90% of the players in that side are gone! :nervous:

It's a brilliant fit though, wasn't worth the risk with a safer final choice knocking about but certainly worth the risk ahead of not getting the defender and keeper sorted.
 
The sheeps this round could be pretty great btw :lol:. You guys need to pick a Bayern player from that final squad, right? And he should play in a position, I don't have a player yet? Very interesting.
 
crappycraperson said:
It is irrelevant if people get the hints not, if half the people think it is cheating it should not be hard to stop.
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No, if half the people think it's cheating then they are wrong. I've been more or less clear at different times and I have gone or not gone for the players 50-50.

You mentioned turn 1 was OK when I was steadfast throughout I was going for Davids. Guess what? I didn't. Good, because Gio called the bluff.

I gave a lot of stat data on Brehme in the round I got him, guess what? I didn't go for him but was instead trying to keep him safe as a fallback for the second attempt. No one called the bluff, great (and all but a couple of managers had no idea who I was going on about anyway).

Last turn I kept Pol and Edgar worried about Kohler and Bergomi, despite having no real intention to go for them as a first attempt. Who's to say I wasn't doing the same with Ruggeri here? In fact, at the time I was thinking about going for what I have finally gone for now.

Most times I'm clear or semi-clear on a target I'm blocked, it even happened with Guardiola despite Cutch not working out he was eligible. Great cheating, clearly...
 
Balu said:
The sheeps this round could be pretty great btw :lol:. You guys need to pick a Bayern player from that final squad, right? And he should play in a position, I don't have a player yet? Very interesting.
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Careful there. If you are thinking about deliberately avoiding someone so that at worst he is a cracking sheep, do remember Gio may pick him, then can't be a sheep!
 
If the guy has been picked already I'm so fecked it's unreal. The other final I had in mind looks safer for fallbacks but that only applies if I have two stabs at it.

:nervous: Lad better play a blinder for me if he comes. The only reason I stick to him is he was pretty fecking phenomenal on his day. I even know some people will actually question his inclusion/positioning when he actually fits like a glove!
 
antohan said:
No, if half the people think it's cheating then they are wrong. I've been more or less clear at different times and I have gone or not gone for the players 50-50.

You mentioned turn 1 was OK when I was steadfast throughout I was going for Davids. Guess what? I didn't. Good, because Gio called the bluff.

I gave a lot of stat data on Brehme in the round I got him, guess what? I didn't go for him but was instead trying to keep him safe as a fallback for the second attempt. No one called the bluff, great (and all but a couple of managers had no idea who I was going on about anyway).

Last turn I kept Pol and Edgar worried about Kohler and Bergomi, despite having no real intention to go for them as a first attempt. Who's to say I wasn't doing the same with Ruggeri here? In fact, at the time I was thinking about going for what I have finally gone for now.

Most times I'm clear or semi-clear on a target I'm blocked, it even happened with Guardiola despite Cutch not working out he was eligible. Great cheating, clearly...
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It does not work because it is hard to draw the line. Why did you think then that viva should not have hinted about Khan in round 3? May be he was bluffing as well and going for someone else all together.

If you had actually gone in for Brehme only in round 1, would that tn have converted that bluff into cheating?

Let's not forget the open talking of deals with Balu. No different to colluding with someone via PMs. What's stopping me from opening calling out Stobzilla last round and saying you go for a midfielder, I will go for a defender? We won't even need to name players then but it would be still absurd to do so and diminishes the purpose of the game.

It's rubbish. I would rather have 10 sheeps than indulge in such non sense behavior.
 
antohan said:
Careful there. If you are thinking about deliberately avoiding someone so that at worst he is a cracking sheep, do remember Gio may pick him, then can't be a sheep!
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I'm not deliberately avoiding someone. I made my pick hours ago. And if Gio picks a different player than I did, I don't get a sheep anyway? There's clearly a flaw in your logic here.
 
crappycraperson said:
It does not work because it is hard to draw the line. Why did you think then that viva should not have hinted about Khan in round 3? May be he was bluffing as well and going for someone else all together.
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Bluffing in attempt three serves no real purpose, that's why. And that's why I said the line should be drawn the moment the second reveal is out, there's no purpose in bluffing with he final pick, the advantage is 100% spelling out the target.

If you had actually gone in for Brehme only in round 1, would that tn have converted that bluff into cheating?
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No, because so long as people can call the bluff and don't have a massive punishment for calling it (wich you do as well in turn 3) it's all still ultimately down to what others decide to do.

Let's not forget the open talking of deals with Balu. No different to colluding with someone via PMs.
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I was fecking around you mentalist. Thought the Del Boy pictures gave that away? I called BOTH of Pol's picks, I knew what they should be and that's what he picked. I never changed my targets, he never changed his, nor did either really consider doing so.

What's stopping me from opening calling out Stobzilla last round and saying you go for a midfielder, I will go for a defender? We won't even need to name players then but it would be still absurd to do so and diminishes the purpose of the game.
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Which is why I think in turn 3 there should be zero comms/signalling/bluffing. It is cheating at that stage, of course it is. Have you seen me do that in turn 3? Nope.
 
Balu said:
I'm not deliberately avoiding someone. I made my pick hours ago. And if Gio picks a different player than I did, I don't get a sheep anyway? There's clearly a flaw in your logic here.
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Not necessarily, you may pick someone already picked by someone else in another final.
 
antohan said:
Bluffing in attempt three serves no real purpose, that's why. And that's why I said the line should be drawn the moment the second reveal is out, there's zero advantage in bluffing witht he final pick, the advantage is 100% spelling out the target.



No, because so long as people can call the bluff and don't have a massive punishment for calling it (wich you do as well in turn 3) it's all still ultimately down to what others decide to do.



I was fecking around you mentalist. Thought the Del Boy pictures gave that away? I called BOTH of Pol's picks, I knew what they should be and that's what he picked. I never changed my targets, he never changed his, nor did either really consider doing so.


Which is why I think in turn 3 there should be zero comms/signalling/bluffing. It is cheating at that stage, of course it is. Have you seen me do that in turn 3? Nope.
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Turns make it worse ofcourse but the point is the same. I could have done it with Seaman pick round 2 as well, would have been wrong.

Anyway you play as you want, I will do the same. It's Aldo's game, upto him to call out anything against the rules or norm,
 
antohan said:
Not necessarily, you may pick someone already picked by someone else in another final.
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Ffs, completely ignored that possibility. Now I'm even more worried. I want this round over, now!!!!!!! Nightmare.
 
On the flip side, go me. Can only assume anyone still out for a keeper and forward just simply never looked at my final. Or they did and decided it not worth the risk given the lack of quality left to pick from outside of those two.
 
crappycraperson said:
Turns make it worse ofcourse but the point is the same. I could have done it with Seaman pick round 2 as well, would have been wrong.
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Probably, if you spell it out instead of saying "picking a goalie". It also makes a difference that you never say much so that would be noticed, while everyone knows (or should know) I'm fecking about half the time.
 
Balu said:
Ffs, completely ignored that possibility. Now I'm even more worried. I want this round over, now!!!!!!! Nightmare.
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Mwahahahaha! That's my worry as well. Think the final I picked is perfect for my pair and should be a double block at worst. But there is an outside chance some moron has taken the defender in another final. Doubt it because there's little quality left in his rival sides, but... :nervous:
 
Stobzilla said:
On the flip side, go me. Can only assume anyone still out for a keeper and forward just simply never looked at my final. Or they did and decided it not worth the risk given the lack of quality left to pick from outside of those two.
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I'm actually looking at it right now. My only issue is I would prefer getting the backline sorted now.

Mmmm....
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
@AldoPaine18 Can we have the next round as 2 player pick with unrelated criteria? A linked criteria would be very difficult and dilute the whole team.

No point having 2 seperate rounds when we can do it in 1 with 2 unrelated criteria, imo!
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I'd agree. That last question can completely make or break a side. I have targets scattered all over the shop and some of my preferred ones may not even be in scope :( Could have done with the red card one being next!
 
Stobzilla said:
On the flip side, go me. Can only assume anyone still out for a keeper and forward just simply never looked at my final. Or they did and decided it not worth the risk given the lack of quality left to pick from outside of those two.
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I had to forgo as many as 7-8 finals because if I had failed one pick, I would have had to pick a slight better than sheep worthy player!
 
crappycraperson said:
I had to forgo as many as 7-8 finals because if I had failed one pick, I would have had to pick a slight better than sheep worthy player!
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Not many then. I've even discovered cups I didn't know actually existed! Some god awful shite in the KNVB finals.
 
antohan said:
Not many then. I've even discovered cups I didn't know actually existed! Some god awful shite in the KNVB finals.
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I have decided to go for an all premiership side so it was just league cup and FA cup finals with some european ones.

I actually looked at over 40 finals!.
 
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