Well Final Fantasy has definitely struggled in the last 10-15 years. Every game since then is like the series having a big identity crisis (although FFXII was excellent in my opinion, so depending on your point of view the cut-off point could be just before or just after that game). In recent years though, there have been some excellent JRPG's that are still fairly traditional but were critically and commercially very successful, like the Ni No Kuni games, Persona 5, Dragon Quest XI. I'm sure other people could name more examples. And in terms of non-traditional RPG-like games, there's the From Software games that have had such a massive impact on the wider gaming community. So I wouldn't say it's all bad for the Japanese RPG industry.
Gaming The Final Fantasy Thread
- Thread starter WeasteDevil
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Didn't play Ni no kuni, but I want to. Ni no kuni 2 however was more arpg in a JRPG world.
Dq11 was good, but still far away from the JRPG masterclass it was hailed as (on promotional pictures though, to note).
Out of the recent lot there really hasn't been a single JRPG that (I've tried) I'm likely to be desperate to play again in 10 years time.
I'm thinking quality like:
Suikoden 2, Chrono Trigger, FF6&9, Legend of Dragoon & Shadow hearts w/ covenant.
I kind of like Ni No Kuni yea (haven't played 2), but DQ11 on the other hand is a prime example of JRPG's being archaic. I mean sure, it's a fun game, but it's the same old formula DQ has used since the 90's. Which is fine if that's your thing, but I think it's time these studies try to innovate.
Regarding Final Fanasy, they have the opposite problem, they lost their magic when they started innovating too much. I though XII was amazing too, but it was the last main line FF I really enjoyed. I did finish 13 and played the two sequals, but they were flash over substance to me. They're also just so fecking weird story wise. Actually, I think voice acting kind of ruined Final Fantasy for me. There's more room for dialogue when it's just text and I like making up the voice in my head instead of listening to a cringey voice actor, but that's personal taste of course.
Persona 5 was a fun game, but I got bored near the end and didn't finish it.
@Ødegaard (I'm so proud I remembered the alt-code for that O)
I loved Suikoden. I replayed Suikoden 2 in March or something, I'm not sure what about it makes it so great, but I just love the feel of it. The most replayed FF by me is Tactics though. I must've finished that atleast 6 times.
I get that, those were defining titles and it's hard to get that same impact in a later era. Much like modern CRPG's can't recreate the impact of Baldur's Gate 1-2 and Planescape Torment, despite there being a couple of very good ones like Divnity Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity. But still, the Japanese RPG industry did create a new defining title in the last decade, Dark Souls. You could also argue it's more ARPG than JRPG, but perhaps that's exactly the point. Perhaps it's simply impossible to create a new truly classic and defining game by sticking too closely to the old formula.
DQXI was all right, I certainly didn't get the hype. It was a pretty generic JRPG, made well, but I guess there's very few of those anymore so people were creaming over it.
Persona 5 is amazing if you get past the initial 15-20 hour slog.
Ys VIII is fecking amazing and every JRPG fan should go play it if they haven't.
Persona 5 is amazing if you get past the initial 15-20 hour slog.
Ys VIII is fecking amazing and every JRPG fan should go play it if they haven't.
For which system is it easiest available? Don't think I've ever seen it anywhere.
Pretty cheap on the PSN store for PS4 and it's on Switch too but costs more.
PS4 it is then.
I saw it and it looks good but have they not developed anything outside of Midgard? I know they're planning to release it in stages but Midgard is only a tiny part of the game.
Also Mother 3 is the best JRPG ever made.
Also Mother 3 is the best JRPG ever made.
The parts with Sephiroth near the end are just after Midgard aren't they?
There really aren't many natural end points between Midgard and Aeris. Junon, Golden Saucer and Cosmo Canyon all feel a bit light hearted or tangental.
There really aren't many natural end points between Midgard and Aeris. Junon, Golden Saucer and Cosmo Canyon all feel a bit light hearted or tangental.
Yeah, DQ11 & Persona 5 were both good fun. None of the hailed games from current gen are terrible games from what I can remember, but they just either lack on the gameplay or the story and world-building. I think the thing that goes again through the all-time-greats in jrpg is that you end up living yourself into the world (not just characters) instead of just the characters or worse, just the gameplay.
For example, when I play Persona 5 my focus goes from how the world is set up and caring about the different moving fractions within that world to wanting to play the game well. Get the good personas, level up well, get through the inner-world dungeons in a good way. The gameplay takes center-stage and to a degree the story. The world however is a big bland careface-place. It's simple percieved good vs obvious bad (despite their twisted motives).
You in a "normal" way go from a soldier in one army, to seeing the bad in the army you were in, changing allegiance and your rival chooses his way, not because he is evil (though there sure is a evil guy in the game) & you move through the world not because of some contrived "go to x because the plot says you'll be stronger for doing it", but because it's the only option for survival or to find out more about why things are as they are. You learn to love and trust (and gain the trust of) the Kobolds for example & all your other allies as you build up your fraction.
In FF6 your fraction is less big, but the different placements in the world of the characters and the way you learn about their lives and character-traits makes you learn more about the story surrounding their village/town/city etc. You learn through Celes, Leo & Terra that even those who are on the opposite side in the great war aren't necessarily as evil and twisted as Kefka Palazzo.
In FF6 your fraction is less big, but the different placements in the world of the characters and the way you learn about their lives and character-traits makes you learn more about the story surrounding their village/town/city etc. You learn through Celes, Leo & Terra that even those who are on the opposite side in the great war aren't necessarily as evil and twisted as Kefka Palazzo.
I think the reason The Witcher 3 & the From Software games are so popular apart from gameplay has largely to do with the world they are set in being fleshed out well, in their own way, so people can sink hours into unraveling the world and how it works/worked.
It's fun to learn about the monsters in the witcher 3, and the different fractions both between humans, "normal" non-humans and the evil fraction. They are moving parts.
Ni no kuni 2 has some moving parts, but they are largely forgettable and the game could have been much better with a bit better writing, as in, the different cities/villages/places in general you visit largely feels like tasks to complete rather than experiencing the world, in my opinion and was a overall enjoyable game. It was closer to the jrpgs of old than Persona 5 was for me, although the Persona-series as a whole is in it's own bubble since it's a crossover between life-simulator & jrpg.
Final Fantasy as a series has a issue that it wants to be relevant in the modern times where people are used to asking questions about "why it isn't like it would be in normal life, just in a fantasy setting", that's why I think they ditched atb/tb for more fluid action-based combat. We as fans of the old games want it to stay the same as it lends itself to our nostalgia & preference of tactical choices and using our brains instead of our reactions to win battles (not that arpgs can't get the brain started, but we largely prefer I think to take our time) or at least develop within what it was, but the company is too big to cater to us as it's main audience. We get the odd "throwback" games like Lost Sphear that lacks overall quality in it just to give us that sort of gameplay every now and then.
I can understand voice-acting being a issue, the imagination of how Cloud/Squall/Zidane sounded was a big deal in getting us to identify with the characters. Apart from Squall who people see as a moaning emo-kid, most people are able to get the idea of how the old characters were despite not having voice-acting to show when they were nervous or angry. More focus on the text to portray emotions also makes for more focus on the writing itself as it has to sell the story. So I think it shifts the focus a bit. But I'd argue FF12's voice-acting largely increased the quality of the game. So it's not like it has to be either or.
I'm not sure I agree. I can't speak for Divinity original sin 2 (as the gameplay wasn't my cup of tea), but the first one was brillaint and captured the old magic well as a modern-version of CRPGs (although I'm somehat sure we disagree on DoS falling into that category due to gameplay-differences).
I certainly believe that if Square-Enix was to make a masterpiece of a jrpg with a turn-based combat system then people would get their wallets out en masse. Dragon Quest as a decent jrpg got a feckton of good press and I imagine they sold a lot thanks to it. Imagine how it would have been if that game was more of a modern-version of suikoden 2 in the DQ-universe. Every single rpg-enthusiast that could stomache the graphics would jump at it either to re-capture the feeling of playing the old classics again or to figure out why people hammer on about the quality of games back then.
This is going to be a bit daft, seeing as there isn't a clear definition of jrpg (and DS is made in japan so strictly speaking it's a japanese role-playing game), but Dark Souls is not a jrpg to me, becuase it's a arpg focused around the battles instead of character/party progression through a story. The story is a essential part of making a jrpg a jrpg in my opinion, and while all From Software games has a story or lore, apart from Sekiro (and to a lesser extent BB) I'd argue none of the others have a proper story within them due to most of it being lore from the past, before the game, that you don't naturally get but have to actively piece together and still won't have a chance of understanding fully.
Take the below picture for example. Dark souls does it as bare-bones as possible. Create the goal of escaping the assylum - be told about the bells. Go to the bells & kill bosses - Instead of the story telling you there is no return you yourself are in the mindset that you are going to conquer this challenge, the closest you get to "all is lost" is a force-death to Seath the scaleless & even then you are so damn used to dying that you are just happy that you woke up with progression instead of figuring out why you couldn't damage the bugger. The climax is there not because the story has carried you there (usually that'll be reserved for the playthrough after you've watched some youtube videos of people who have bothered reading the lore and piecing what can be pieced together, but because you have finally reached the kiln and get to kill Gwyn with a great soundtrack.
Gameplay at from software games are 10/10 in engagement for those that like a challenge, but beyond that they are largely bland in terms of story for first-timers playing through them.
Isn't that during the flashback in the inn in, feck what's the name of that first town again. Junon....no that's the port, uhm, uhm, damnit I have to google. Kalm, that's it. Right?
I hated the Cloud's past part. So fecking long and boring.
100% agree. I'd argue it's more of a action-based jrpg (should get it's own genre
), but it's so enjoyable even if the combat isn't turn-based.It's the closest to "I want to play this again" I've gotten since the PS2-days with Shadow hearts.
Mostly looking forward to the Don Corneo bit and seeing how faithful they've kept to the original.
I think they might cut that & the... You know, scene.
They mentioned they will need a slight re-imagine of the story due to things not fitting into todays political world, so I imagine that might be the big no-no.
I do hope they do it properly.
Oh it's not daft at all, I suspect most people would say the same thing and I struggle to call it a JRPG as well, other than in the literal sense of the word. It was more of a comment on the state of the Japanese RPG industry rather than that specific type of game. Anyway I think I've dragged this thread off-topic for long enough now.
I'd say that's gone along with Cid verbally abusing Shera(was that her name?).
It is a tough one. I know a few years ago the director was adamant that element would be in the game but with the development issues and what you say, it probably is gone.
Yeah, I'd say Cid abusing Shera will be gone too.
You can get away with a lot more when it's barely human looking giant headed blocks going "&$%&$& %&&&$!$&! you !$*!$!$*! right up your )$!$*!" at each other than you can when they are actually shaped like humans with faces with voices.
There was talk of them having to make Tifa's boobs smaller, but she looked fairly normally proportioned in Advent Children so I'm assuming they will base it off that.
There was talk of them having to make Tifa's boobs smaller, but she looked fairly normally proportioned in Advent Children so I'm assuming they will base it off that.
Just bought Ys VIII of PSN, lets see if you guys are right
The early scenes in the original with Cid verbally abusing Shera will be toned down. Even when i first played the game at the age of 12 I thought it was a bit unpleasant ("make them the goddamn tea!!!"). The scene at the Honey Bee Inn will be seriously altered but I hope it won't be as it's hilarious.
Cid and Shera? From what I've seen they've programmed the first 10 minutes of the game in 4 years. Until we reach Rocket Town, social norms will be back to abusing woman seen as normal after World War III.
Not sold on the voice acting, sounds cheap and not convincing. Hopefully there's an option to go with Japanese voiceover with subtitles.
Like the look of the gameplay. I hope they have a degree of choice in it still, like the original i.e. you can tell Aeris to stick her flower up her arse.
Like the look of the gameplay. I hope they have a degree of choice in it still, like the original i.e. you can tell Aeris to stick her flower up her arse.
Quite like Ys 8 so far. The combat seems fun.
Can’t help but feel that the remake is going to go terribly.
FFS just reading this has made me start playing FFVII again. I really need to complete Persona 5 too but I just can't when all I can think about is putting a dress on and taking one for the team.
I also hope it's not a cake walk. There were certain bosses in that game which were actually really challenging if you didn't just run around and grind like Demon Gate, the different Jenovas (without the water/fire resist gear), the Weapons and Sephiroth.
Edit: Hell. Even those frogs could be hard as hell.
Edit: Hell. Even those frogs could be hard as hell.
That robot that could grab one of your characters was pretty bad ass.
I think that I finished the game without even reaching level 70, and there were just a couple or so of bosses who killed me once.
The only difficult ones were the two optional Weapons, which actually easily killed me, and I guess it is very hard to defeat if you're not very high leveled.
Demon Gate fecked me up, I remember being stuck on it for so long after school that I forgot to go play a football match two days in a row. I'd been breezing for hours since the Materia Keeper and ended up stuck on that. Think I only got past it by blind luck.
Demon gate is probably the easiest boss every time I do my playthroughs. Always grind to death after getting Bahamut. 
Demon gate is probably the easiest boss every time I do my playthroughs. Always grind to death after getting Bahamut.
I think Demon Gate was a bit of a wall for players on the first go because offensive materia was overpowered in the earlier stages of the game (especially some of the enemy skills) and this boss had massive magic resistance. Also I didn't use Aeris in my main party up to the dungeon so she was lagging behind in levels and HP.
I’m simultaneously hugely excited and hugely pessimistic about the FFVII remake, sort of like the summer transfer window.
Demon Gate is one of Aerith's last big fights too if I remember right. I've been playing through the "remaster" on the Xbox, I'd really have just preferred this with fancier graphics and the sound fixed. Maybe some control tweaks, but it's perfectly playable today. Materia system is great.
Cait Sith is the worst fortune teller ever and the worst party member. Will be interesting to see how they handle him in the remake.
@Cait Sith defend yourself!
Pretty neutral then?
He got nothing in Quina? Quona? Quinoa?
Whatever the frog hunting twat from FF9 is called.
Quina is one of, if not the single best party member in ff9.
Best possible party is:
Zidane - Freya - Amarant - Quina
I meant his appeal as a character, not mechanics wise
Having said that, is he that good? I haven't played IX in ages, but aren't the mage characters any good?