I like the amount of interest and argument this game gained from other voters/managers
Probably the time zones.
When the actual neutral arguments start flowing in, I would probably be fast asleep
The Fifth Redcafe Sheep Draft QF - harms vs. idmanager
- Thread starter green_smiley
- Start date
Probably the time zones.
When the actual neutral arguments start flowing in, I would probably be fast asleep
Id's back 5 is a bit of a mumbo-jumbo while harms' is more credible to me and better matched for the task at hand.
Van Bommel is alright. I wouldn't trust him with a Makelele job on Maradona, but the combination of him, Breitner and Beckenbauer should accomplish what harms sets out to do. The ref's handling of that dick-swinging contest could be crucial: I can see either of them getting a red.
Overall, I see it working better as a unit/team than id's.
Van Bommel is alright. I wouldn't trust him with a Makelele job on Maradona, but the combination of him, Breitner and Beckenbauer should accomplish what harms sets out to do. The ref's handling of that dick-swinging contest could be crucial: I can see either of them getting a red.
Overall, I see it working better as a unit/team than id's.
I like the amount of interest and argument this game gained from other voters/managers
It is an interesting match up. I don't think spectators always need to post. Managers posting back and forth is better rather someone diverting the discussion to their pet peeve.
The undeniable point is that I have 3 Germans, while idmanager have none. Ergo, by Lineker's definition, I win.
Draft matches should be played the Ralph Waldo Emerson way.
"Win as if you were used to it, Lose as if you enjoyed it for a change"
He was #10 first and Inside Right second. I recall many articles on how frustrating he found being shunted to Outside Right (due to AdS) and the fact he never got utilized fully due to Real preferring to attacking through Gento on left. He had the dribbling and ball control, but not the pace to be be a true GOAT Outside Right.
Garrincha is an entirely different proposition to Kopa.
Makes sense. Kopa probably played through the centre in the France Yugoslavia game harms talks about where Zebec played in the midfield and not at left back.
The Kopa argument anyways doesn't do much as in the next game between the same teams, Kopa scored twice.
Zebec from what I know was a wing back with decent defending skills down the left but not someone great defensively to contain Garrincha or even a tier below him to be honest.
But he doesn't make the defense in the formation pic look mumbo-jumbo, so it should be okay.
Last edited:
He was versatile. Started as winger, and then dropped to halfback and then to a fullback (old style CB/Sweeper in 2-3-5 or 3-2-5 formations). He certainly was a good defender and has ability to play centrally or a tucked in role but I agree he'd have his hands full vs Garrincha.
Oh I am aware alright. In fact this was my post at the end of that round.
But he is not that capable a left back defensively, let alone keeping it up while joining the attacks as well.
I'd manager front six is close to perfect with scirea in defense.
I think there is something to the Dzajic-Maradona-Garrincha not being greater than the sum of the parts. While Netzer-Breitner seems like a more cohesive platform for the front 3 even if the names are less shiny. Because of the synergy factor I can see Finney having a better game than Dzajic or Garrincha actually.
On the other hand Van Bommel against Maradona does look like a red card waiting to happen
On the other hand Van Bommel against Maradona does look like a red card waiting to happen
Really small turnout on Boxing Day.
Err, so are Redondo and Seedorf for a 4-2-3-1.
With Maradona ahead, they don't need to be super creative or bomb forward.
In fact they are the perfect pair to shut off Netzer and Brietner while keeping the game moving.
I can see my defenders are literally non existent since Finney is expected to have a better game than Garrincha against a wing back
Shouldn't even care bringing up Garrincha since even Maradona is contained here against Van Bommel
Done with the comic arguments since we are anyways reaching the end.
Last edited:
Great game, @idmanager. Fully expected to lose this one when I saw the draw
Usually I'd say congrats, but since I feel its an undeserved victory, good luck with the rest of the draft. Cheers.
Damn. Just saw this game and went to vote for idmanager to see that the poll is closed.
How the hell did he lose? This is a clear result for me in his favour.
How the hell did he lose? This is a clear result for me in his favour.
Feel bad for you.. had a top side!
This is insane, a side with Garrincha, Maradona and Dzajic with Charles upto is a no brainer, even if they played with grade C players behind them.
Doesn't have a chance to contain Maradona given the quality of width stretching play there. Beckenbauer's Germany/Bayern never faced a player as ruthless, decisive and out-worldly skilled as Maradona, and the kind of extravagant setups he played in would have never had the chance to contain him. Given he is used to playing in flaboyant setups he isn't a great opponent for a player like Maradona.
When it comes to top CBs I'd take the likes of Baresi and Scirea because they played in all out defensive setups especially Scirea who actually contained peak Maradona at Juve. But this game would be similar to the 4-1 demolition of Milan where your team tries to bank on their abilities and goes out to control the midfield only to get all the spaces left behind severely punished in a few swift moves.
Maradona and Garrincha will be great together. People only remember Maradona's goal of the century and assume him to be a ball hogger, when he primary strength by far was his passing and vision from anywhere on the pitch. He would easily combine with Garrincha and set him free with open routes ahead of him. The likes of van Bommel and Ruggeri haven't a hope in hell to act against that.
I can understand your arguments, but I genuinely believe that I have a good chance of outlasting my opponent. idmanager definitely has an edge in terms of individual quality, but it's not always that that decides a game.
Regarding the wings — it's not only Garrincha and Maradona, it's also Dzajic — three players that always demanded the ball. It would work, of course, but I don't think it would've fully maximised their potential.
Regarding the wings — it's not only Garrincha and Maradona, it's also Dzajic — three players that always demanded the ball. It would work, of course, but I don't think it would've fully maximised their potential.
I am surprised that Van Bommel on Diego was not a bigger talking point. I have seen a lot of other teams lose against one with Diego in it when they had far better DMs. Put in Rijkarrd instead of Bommel and I can see harms' side winning but Van Bommel is out of his depth and likely to be sent off in first half of the game itself.
Err, so are Redondo and Seedorf for a 4-2-3-1.
With Maradona ahead, they don't need to be super creative or bomb forward.
In fact they are the perfect pair to shut off Netzer and Brietner while keeping the game moving.
I can see my defenders are literally non existent since Finney is expected to have a better game than Garrincha against a wing back
Shouldn't even care bringing up Garrincha since even Maradona is contained here against Van Bommel
It was a synergy issue with playstyles for me. Dzajic-Maradona-Garrincha is not greater than the sum of the parts. And Maradona-Redondo-Scirea just doesn't feel complementary to me. Maybe those combinations would actually work great but I just don't see the synergy in play styles.
What's not to like about that?!
Knowing how much you love them it must sound like a complete blasphemy to you.Yeah this point could have been emphasised a lot more especially given the narrowness of the scores. As much as I thought, Zebec and Thuram could pull it off, defending Maradona would relied heavily on good fortune and lax refereeing.
It was an obvious and undeniable flaw, but Beckenbauer and Breitner made it theoretically doable. With some luck.
Finally had some time to go through this game and full respect to @harms and the team he has build, but how the hell @idmanager went to lose this one 
Apart from Costacurta at RB can't really fault any of his player/roles neither the synergy between the team itself..
Apart from Costacurta at RB can't really fault any of his player/roles neither the synergy between the team itself..Finally had some time to go through this game and full respect to @harms and the team he has build, but how the hell @idmanager went to lose this one
Draft hipsters love Netzer
Was just about to write what harms wrote below. Literally.Draft hipsters love Netzer
But they've influenced others enough.
Another one that went from underrated to overrated.
Like @Ecstatic and his effect on right backs. Haven't seen so many zona mista type of RB's in a draft from a long time.But they've influenced others enough.
Still nowhere near as overrated as Redondo is on the Caf.
I think everyone has their pet peeves of who is overrated. For me I feel that John Charles is overrated on here
That post wasn't childish at all.
Not sure about that. Can't remember him ever being a vote winner. He's a bit of a mythical figure that everyone appreciates but once we go into the match threads he's a liability.I think everyone has their pet peeves of who is overrated. For me I feel that John Charles is overrated on here
Do come up with example of games in an all time draft that were won on account of Redondo though. I'll wait.
He is perhaps rated more by us (United fans) because of his performance at OT in 2000 CL quarters. In general he is still rated as a top CM elsewhere. Netzer is defo overrated on draft games now though, a subjective call but that’s just how I see it.
I think someone won the draft with Charles as a center back early on. Today he would've crashed out in the first round
How the opinions change*at least he had made it to an all-time draft XI
Don't think that I agree in general, although this game proves me wrong. Let's see how he does in the long run though.