The fanbase's role in the erosion of standards

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lost bear said:
Well yes. The whereabouts of power is a complex question, but we have it in the same sense as the supporters in Munich and Madrid do.
Click to expand...
But you don't. They own their club, your club is owned by the Glazers.
 
stefan92 said:
But you don't. They own their club, your club is owned by the Glazers.
Click to expand...
It’s not the question of ownership that I was referring to. The actions of the fans, or whatever you want to call them, can make that ownership profoundly uncomfortable , by non-attendance, economic reticence, demonstrating, civil disobedience etc- so that the Glazers could be made to feck off, precisely because they’re only here for the money. The problem is not powerlessness, as such, but a demoralisation that stops people using their power.
 
Lost bear said:
It’s not the question of ownership that I was referring to. The actions of the fans, or whatever you want to call them, can make that ownership profoundly uncomfortable , by non-attendance, economic reticence, demonstrating, civil disobedience etc- so that the Glazers could be made to feck off, precisely because they’re only here for the money. The problem is not powerlessness, as such, but a demoralisation that stops people using their power.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree on this. Still it's not the same, as United fans need to use this indirect approach while the members of actual clubs can just elect a different leadership.
 
stefan92 said:
Yes, I agree on this. Still it's not the same, as United fans need to use this indirect approach while the members of actual clubs can just elect a different leadership.
Click to expand...

The Glazers are actually quite weak owners and very easy to influence. Our fanbase has actually egged them into doing things quite often over the last 10 years - generally speaking though, the fanbase has generally egged the club into doing the wrong things.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Go figure.
Click to expand...

If by protesting you mean giving the Glazers your hard earned money then yes we have protested. All those 'protesters' are just making the Glazers richer. It's as simple as that. Stop spending money on the club and they go.
 
bosnian_red said:
What a stupid post, come on. Fans are literally the same everywhere. They will be motivated when the team gives them something to motivate.
Click to expand...
That is not true. It is for another topic but English clubs do have the most patient fans around.
Look at other leagues. Club loses couple of games and players and manager will be booed. Bad run of results, fans will call for manager's head.

Not to mention big clubs. Bayern, Real, Barca, Juve...atmosphere there is absolutely ruthless.
 
UnitedFan93 said:
It's very easy...don't buy a new shirt each year, don't renew your season ticket each year. Haven't done for years now and will only go back to Old Trafford when we're under new ownership. Fans can do so much more.
Click to expand...

This. Don't give them a penny.

Tom Van Persie said:
How hasn't the OP been banned from making threads yet?
Click to expand...

Because he has a point. The Glazers only exist because enough fans allow it.
 
UnitedFan93 said:
If by protesting you mean giving the Glazers your hard earned money then yes we have protested. All those 'protesters' are just making the Glazers richer. It's as simple as that. Stop spending money on the club and they go.
Click to expand...
Alright, cool. As a matchgoing fan who is protesting for change from within the stadium, I'll stop going to games with my close family member (despite it being an activity that we've been doing together for over 20 years) and instead our seats will likely be taken by people who are ambivalent towards the Glazers and would therefore be more inclined to spend money at the megastore on a matchday (thus making the Glazers richer).

Unless you have devised a plan for millions of United fans to do a coordinated global protest, then wind your neck in and stop talking down to fans who are vocally anti-Glazer and choose to express that from within the stadium.

I was there at Old Trafford before the Glazers and I'll be there long after they're gone.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Alright, cool. As a matchgoing fan who is protesting for change from within the stadium, I'll stop going to games with my close family member (despite it being an activity that we've been doing together for over 20 years) and instead our seats will likely be taken by people who are ambivalent towards the Glazers and would therefore be more inclined to spend money at the megastore on a matchday (thus making the Glazers richer).

Unless you have devised a plan for millions of United fans to do a coordinated global protest, then wind your neck in and stop talking down to fans who are vocally anti-Glazer and choose to express that from within the stadium.

I was there at Old Trafford before the Glazers and I'll be there long after they're gone.
Click to expand...
Protesting for change whilst lining there pockets. OK got you. Oh and no I won't wind my neck in.
 
UnitedFan93 said:
Protesting for change whilst lining there pockets. OK got you. Oh and no I won't wind my neck in.
Click to expand...
What a revelation. I'll cancel my season ticket right away... which would mean the Glazers will be £500 worse off, right? Because nobody else will take my seat, will they? Man, I wish the 1958, MUST and other fan groups had consulted such visionary thinkers such as yourselves before organising protests.
 
IrishMcD said:
Watching all the fans clapping rashford off the pitch made me feel sick, not one person calling him out for being a lazy, greedy, selfish twat. Ajax, Bayern, Madrid, Barca, Milan fans make sure players know what standards should be met. Their Ultras would be paying them a visit at training.
Also convinced Glazers at any of those clubs would have been gone years ago. Matches would have been stopped, massive protests, empty stadiums. But not at United.
Click to expand...

I mean, you could start an Ultras gang and drive up to Carrington
 
When I used to listen to the Manchester is Red podcast Andy Mitten summed up this fanbase perfectly. We dislike & infight like no other fanbase.

Look at the ownership bid, people became so anti-Qatar that giving the Glazers £1Billion+ for 25% is being lauded as a success because it isn’t what people didn’t want.
 
How does Man Utd results affect ticket prices? I go to Celtics games time to time and seasons when Celtics are good vs tickets when Celtics are bad are night and day. For example, I went to the game in 2015 for $15.00 and the seats were not terrible (mid-tier). That same ticket now would cost at least $200.00, maybe more.

Best way fans can affect change is with their wallets but if United stadium is always full and price of tickets is not dropping with the result, there is really not much fans can do.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
What a revelation. I'll cancel my season ticket right away... which would mean the Glazers will be £500 worse off, right? Because nobody else will take my seat, will they? Man, I wish the 1958, MUST and other fan groups had consulted such visionary thinkers such as yourselves before organising protests.
Click to expand...

No need to organise a protest, just stay at home for a couple of seasons. It actually a really easy thing to do if you are that determined to get the Glazers out. The problem is that people are clearly not, and need the likes of 1958 and MUST to organise a 'protest' which involves spending lots of money at the stadium whilst singing anti-glazer songs and holding banners protesting a family that lives over 4000 miles away and rarely attend games. They honestly do not care.

United has circa 50,000 season ticket holders, the vast majority based in the UK. That's a lot of seats to fill each game for people flying in from Singapore.
 
Real's success is not due to the bitchy nature of their fans.

First of all, how do you measure this?

Second, did they become docile between 2002 and 2014? Is Real's relative lack of success in this period (no CL, only 3 La Ligas) because the fans were more supportive of the team?

(You could argue that had they been more sensible in team construction in this period instead of buying washed stars to placate the fans they may have won more in this period. But I digress)

It's @Skills and I like playing along but this is a dumb thesis and I'm stating the obvious frankly: there's no correlation between fans waving handkerchiefs and trophies being hauled in. If only it was that simple. Make our stadium a living hell for our players and coach, enough that they'll be forced to win games?

I'm annoyed I had to type this
 
bosnian_red said:
What a stupid post, come on. Fans are literally the same everywhere. They will be motivated when the team gives them something to motivate.
Click to expand...
Not true. Clubs and fans clearly have different expectations. At Barcelona Enrique won the treble but was not liked amongst the fan base because his football. At most top European clubs a manager that doesn’t win the league within 2 years gets sacked, close or being 2nd 3rd is not good enough. At RM not winning the CL within 2 years gets you sacked.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
When I used to listen to the Manchester is Red podcast Andy Mitten summed up this fanbase perfectly. We dislike & infight like no other fanbase.

Look at the ownership bid, people became so anti-Qatar that giving the Glazers £1Billion+ for 25% is being lauded as a success because it isn’t what people didn’t want.
Click to expand...
Yes. I noticed this from the first few times I visited Old Trafford. There seems to be a culture of ridiculing other groups of fans. I’m not sure if it was a reaction to being called glory hunters for years or if it goes deeper than that. If you didn’t know some of the words to chants you were mocked or if you looked like a tourist etc.
Division in the fan base. Not sure if it’s just a Manchester thing or specifically a United thing.

Dont think our fans will ever be enough on the same page.
 
The Irish Connection said:
Yes. I noticed this from the first few times I visited Old Trafford. There seems to be a culture of ridiculing other groups of fans. I’m not sure if it was a reaction to being called glory hunters for years or if it goes deeper than that. If you didn’t know some of the words to chants you were mocked or if you looked like a tourist etc.
Division in the fan base. Not sure if it’s just a Manchester thing or specifically a United thing.

Dont think our fans will ever be enough on the same page.
Click to expand...
There’s certainly a badge of honour for some in this current malaise. It’s as if people can now say they’ve supported the club through the hard times. The Qatar bid really makes me laugh because we already spend more than 99.9% of the footballing world, we just do so very badly. I get a feeling that this fanbase is more bothered about what rival fans think of them than their fellow fans But maybe I’m wrong. Here’s me doing exactly what I said Andy Mitten was calling out.

I don’t think the fanbase will ever be on the same page either. It’s far too big & vocal.
 
UnitedFan93 said:
No need to organise a protest, just stay at home for a couple of seasons. It actually a really easy thing to do if you are that determined to get the Glazers out. The problem is that people are clearly not, and need the likes of 1958 and MUST to organise a 'protest' which involves spending lots of money at the stadium whilst singing anti-glazer songs and holding banners protesting a family that lives over 4000 miles away and rarely attend games. They honestly do not care.

United has circa 50,000 season ticket holders, the vast majority based in the UK. That's a lot of seats to fill each game for people flying in from Singapore.
Click to expand...
You can pat yourself on the back all you like for choosing to stay at home and not line the Glazer's pockets (and I respect those fans who made that sacrifice), however I could easily argue that by doing that you've actually not made any difference as much as you could argue the same about me. But what's the point in engaging in that kind of infighting? If I see someone tweet #glazersout, I'm hardly going to comment on it saying 'lol do you really think the Glazers are gonna notice your tweet?'. We all want the Glazers gone, and by saying 'you won't achieve anything by doing that', all you're doing is reinforcing apathy towards the situation.
 
kouroux said:
It has to be said that our fanbase is very mild in terms of demonstration of anger/frustration. Very tame to say the least
Click to expand...

The local fans saved the club when the Glazers wanted join the Super League. So when it really matters they are more than just vocal.
 
I don't think fans are to blame because the only way change happens on that forefront is radicalism and that puts fans in a position of incriminating themselves.

Mass pitch invasions which falls into the category above perhaps, but then if it's done consistently the league / FA would penalize the club.
 
IrishMcD said:
Also convinced Glazers at any of those clubs would have been gone years ago. Matches would have been stopped, massive protests, empty stadiums. But not at United.
Click to expand...
kouroux said:
It has to be said that our fanbase is very mild in terms of demonstration of anger/frustration. Very tame to say the least
Click to expand...
Aren't we the only fanbase in the Premier League to get a game called off due to a protest? A bit of perspective would be nice.
 
Lost bear said:
It’s not the question of ownership that I was referring to. The actions of the fans, or whatever you want to call them, can make that ownership profoundly uncomfortable , by non-attendance, economic reticence, demonstrating, civil disobedience etc- so that the Glazers could be made to feck off, precisely because they’re only here for the money. The problem is not powerlessness, as such, but a demoralisation that stops people using their power.
Click to expand...
City fans tried that years ago with Peter Swales, they had regular riots around Maine Rd, made not one iota of difference
 
Last edited:
Asked a similar question a few months ago on here as the OP - this is what I found.

1. People on here seem to interpret "fans" as matchgoing reds, and don't hold themselves accountable whatsoever
2. Most non-match going reds have done very little to oppose the Glazers
3. Everyone seems to have an opinion on how and what matchgoing reds should/shouldnt protest and that they should be doing

This isnt about whether you are a matchgoing red or not. This is about how the fanbase has been divided and conquered and if every single one of us can collectively agree on something for once - the non footballing people at the club shit themselves and are forced to react.

Here's my suggestion - we ALL target the only area of the club the shareholding gimps care about - the business and finance side of the club. Step 1: Unfollow United on all social media, collectively, all of us - and not just on here, get it trending on social media, 'blackout until the Glazers are out' or some clever phrase to capture a collective push.

It hurts the 'business' side of things - the club seems to enjoy whoring out the huge fanbase and are actively quoting social media to hike up share prices and sponsorship fees when it suits them. Let's show them that we can collectively do something about it. It's something little enough that doesn't hurt the team or the football, but it is a direct enough message to the gimp shareholders that this is our club, not theirs.

You have to remember - ALL the money and income that is pumped into the club and wasted on stuff like interest payments, dividends, overpaid transfer fees, wages etc etc - ALL of this money is coming either directly or indirectly from, a fan of Manchester United. Whether you are going to games, watching games on sky, buying Adidas instead of Nike etc etc - it is your money that is being wasted hurting the club.

Final part of my rant is below - I've removed the reference to players, because the club is using the same method for everything online.

A quote from Phil Lynch (CEO of media! at the club) almost 2 years ago, on how they are using pixels on the internet to manage the club, and manipulate fans. 'We pull, twice a day, fan sentiment graphs. We have certain thresholds that alert us when we see online fan sentiment going one way - be that a personal issue, an on-pitch performance issue and when that happens, we then start to work to counter that narrative
Click to expand...
 
Ken Barlow said:
Asked a similar question a few months ago on here as the OP - this is what I found.

1. People on here seem to interpret "fans" as matchgoing reds, and don't hold themselves accountable whatsoever
2. Most non-match going reds have done very little to oppose the Glazers
3. Everyone seems to have an opinion on how and what matchgoing reds should/shouldnt protest and that they should be doing

This isnt about whether you are a matchgoing red or not. This is about how the fanbase has been divided and conquered and if every single one of us can collectively agree on something for once - the non footballing people at the club shit themselves and are forced to react.

Here's my suggestion - we ALL target the only area of the club the shareholding gimps care about - the business and finance side of the club. Step 1: Unfollow United on all social media, collectively, all of us - and not just on here, get it trending on social media, 'blackout until the Glazers are out' or some clever phrase to capture a collective push.

It hurts the 'business' side of things - the club seems to enjoy whoring out the huge fanbase and are actively quoting social media to hike up share prices and sponsorship fees when it suits them. Let's show them that we can collectively do something about it. It's something little enough that doesn't hurt the team or the football, but it is a direct enough message to the gimp shareholders that this is our club, not theirs.

You have to remember - ALL the money and income that is pumped into the club and wasted on stuff like interest payments, dividends, overpaid transfer fees, wages etc etc - ALL of this money is coming either directly or indirectly from, a fan of Manchester United. Whether you are going to games, watching games on sky, buying Adidas instead of Nike etc etc - it is your money that is being wasted hurting the club.

Final part of my rant is below - I've removed the reference to players, because the club is using the same method for everything online.
Click to expand...

This is a decent post. I do have two issues:

1. We have a ridiculous amount of social media "fans". Any campaign like that is going to take one hell of an effort to organise. Even if it succeeds, there's no guarantee it will have that much of an impact.

2. Fundamentally, the biggest problem with any Glazer protest now is nobody really knows/agrees on what comes next. It shouldn't be Glazers Out all costs.

Outside of this post and looking at the wider thread, many people only piped up about the Glazers when the state backed cheat code became an option.

When the Liverpool protest (which was expertly organised by current and former matchgoing fans), many people (those who are now asking matchgoing fans to start a riot in the ground) were saying "I think they've gone a bit too far". Others were even moaning that they were looking forward to the game and didn't want it postponed.

It's also interesting that there was never really a strong "We Want Qatar In" message from the matchgoing support. Even the 1958 deliberately avoided saying that out loud. Instead sticking with the Full sale only message. Most of the "Qatar In" sentiment was coming from online fans.
 
MancunianAngels said:
This is a decent post. I do have two issues:

1. We have a ridiculous amount of social media "fans". Any campaign like that is going to take one hell of an effort to organise. Even if it succeeds, there's no guarantee it will have that much of an impact.

2. Fundamentally, the biggest problem with any Glazer protest now is nobody really knows/agrees on what comes next. It shouldn't be Glazers Out all costs.

Outside of this post and looking at the wider thread, many people only piped up about the Glazers when the state backed cheat code became an option.

When the Liverpool protest (which was expertly organised by current and former matchgoing fans), many people (those who are now asking matchgoing fans to start a riot in the ground) were saying "I think they've gone a bit too far". Others were even moaning that they were looking forward to the game and didn't want it postponed.

It's also interesting that there was never really a strong "We Want Qatar In" message from the matchgoing support. Even the 1958 deliberately avoided saying that out loud. Instead sticking with the Full sale only message. Most of the "Qatar In" sentiment was coming from online fans.
Click to expand...

Cheers pal and good points well made.

I think progress has been made with protests, there's a lot more awareness in the media now than there ever has been. With the Liverpool protest and consistently protesting since, and the togetherness of the reaction to the European Super League proposal and some of the ex-players speaking up - definitely contributed to the gimps 'reviewing their position' (or whatever it was they called it) - it forced the gimps into having to publicly address fans and consider options they clearly don't want to take.

Like you say, I think in terms of match going reds - they too have also been divided and conquered into two categories (a) thugs or (b) fans that bury their head in the sand. The reality is, most of our fans are actually neither, but groups like 1958 that are trying to drive a 3rd narrative, that we the fans are supporting the footballing side of the club whilst opposing the business side of the club - are not being backed enough imo.

There seems to be interest in what the 1958 are doing after a defeat, or if a transfer window is looking a bit crap - but they need more support. If collectively in November (for example) there were 500,000 less followers across all the social media platforms for the club, and The 1958 were able to use their platform to communicate this as an example of fans are coming together to hit the Glazers where it hurts them, then I believe they would shit themselves.

We just need the majority of our fanbase in one collective camp, then we will see some change.
 
I've been saying for years that the match going fans have been far too timid when it comes to what needs done at this football club to enforce change.

I stopped going to games in 2010 as I refused to give the Glazers another penny. Since then, I reluctantly went to two Moyes games and United's friendly at Murrayfield this summer (taking the kids on all three occasions as they were desperate to go).

Look at yesterday. 2/3 -0 down and the fans are signing the United calypso. It's the equivalent of the band playing as the Titanic sunk. No to mention the brass bloody neck to sing the lines of that song whilst one our biggest rivals is playing us off the park. It's senseless and moronic in the extreme.

They should have been hammering the Glazers and some of these bloody players who have let us down time and time again over the course of several managers. I understand some are obsessed by being a "top red", but enough is enough. Give these charlatans (and we all know who they are) what they deserve.
 
Last edited:
Ken Barlow said:
Asked a similar question a few months ago on here as the OP - this is what I found.

1. People on here seem to interpret "fans" as matchgoing reds, and don't hold themselves accountable whatsoever
2. Most non-match going reds have done very little to oppose the Glazers
3. Everyone seems to have an opinion on how and what matchgoing reds should/shouldnt protest and that they should be doing

This isnt about whether you are a matchgoing red or not. This is about how the fanbase has been divided and conquered and if every single one of us can collectively agree on something for once - the non footballing people at the club shit themselves and are forced to react.

Here's my suggestion - we ALL target the only area of the club the shareholding gimps care about - the business and finance side of the club. Step 1: Unfollow United on all social media, collectively, all of us - and not just on here, get it trending on social media, 'blackout until the Glazers are out' or some clever phrase to capture a collective push.

It hurts the 'business' side of things - the club seems to enjoy whoring out the huge fanbase and are actively quoting social media to hike up share prices and sponsorship fees when it suits them. Let's show them that we can collectively do something about it. It's something little enough that doesn't hurt the team or the football, but it is a direct enough message to the gimp shareholders that this is our club, not theirs.

You have to remember - ALL the money and income that is pumped into the club and wasted on stuff like interest payments, dividends, overpaid transfer fees, wages etc etc - ALL of this money is coming either directly or indirectly from, a fan of Manchester United. Whether you are going to games, watching games on sky, buying Adidas instead of Nike etc etc - it is your money that is being wasted hurting the club.

Final part of my rant is below - I've removed the reference to players, because the club is using the same method for everything online.
Click to expand...
Good post. I unfollowed the club years ago and don’t buy any associated brands, even though I always liked adidas shoes! Others should do the same.
Maybe the 1958 could organize a collective unfollow at a certain time, would give the marketing team a fright if they lost half a million followers at once.
 
The Irish Connection said:
Good post. I unfollowed the club years ago and don’t buy any associated brands, even though I always liked adidas shoes! Others should do the same.
Maybe the 1958 could organize a collective unfollow at a certain time, would give the marketing team a fright if they lost half a million followers at once.
Click to expand...

Good man, and it's that sort of mentality that is needed.

The Glazers actually have such a brass neck, that they used the fan numbers on social media as one of the main drivers for why the club is worth their asking price - they are actually using us fans as justification for demanding significantly more than the club is valued.

My concern is that once the Reine group finish up whatever it is get are doing, and the Glazers are still here - it could be another 18 years before they instruct another 'review'. We simply cannot just accepting this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.