i think button will be licking his lips at these new tyre rules
The F1 Thread 2011 Season
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
I think he will too , he seemed to handle his tyres the best last season , making them last way more than other.
But new makers and they don't really know how they will handle in a real race will make things very interesting that's for sure.
But new makers and they don't really know how they will handle in a real race will make things very interesting that's for sure.
indeed, i mean just look at how much he got from the options in abu dhabi last year, even the tyre makers back then said they didnt expect the tyres to hold out that long, it will be interesting
I said before last season that Jenson's smooth style would help him manage his tyres with a full tank but with even less sets of tyres I can see this being a big plus for him over Lewis who's tyre management is his biggest negative.
Button's certainly is smooth and better on his rear tyres but in real terms the advantage he gained from it last season over Lewis was minimal. What he excels at is making his tyres work in variable conditions and the randomness of the tyres this season might mean he can bring this into dry conditions too. Ofcourse it means very little if the McLaren isn't up to pace but they should get there eventually.
The comments about the tyres so far have pointed to 3 or 4 stop races, Lewis even said he had the super softs down to the canvas in just 9 laps the other week. Marbles also are flying off the things more than normal therefore making anything off the racing line an ice rink. It's definatly going to be interesting come Round 1 but the next few test days are gonna be interesting just to see what all the teams final packages are like.
The comments about the tyres so far have pointed to 3 or 4 stop races, Lewis even said he had the super softs down to the canvas in just 9 laps the other week. Marbles also are flying off the things more than normal therefore making anything off the racing line an ice rink. It's definatly going to be interesting come Round 1 but the next few test days are gonna be interesting just to see what all the teams final packages are like.
Marbles will make Canada fun, it's bad for that there at the best of times.
I think the outside line of the hairpin at Canada might be black by the end of the race 
But if it makes the other races abit like Montreal then it will make for an interesting season atleast.
Super Marbles
Have a look at one of the super marbles, thats not loads of marbles stuck together it came off as one piece.
But if it makes the other races abit like Montreal then it will make for an interesting season atleast.Super Marbles
Have a look at one of the super marbles, thats not loads of marbles stuck together it came off as one piece.
feck me! They're saying that they are flying off on the straights too, rather than just rolling outside on corners, that's bloody dangerous!edit: that article has got me worried that this season is going to be a disaster, with the championship being reduced to a battle of attrition. If tyres are getting destroyed that badly that quickly drivers are going to be falling off the track.
I think Pirelli only acted as they were told by the FIA in terms of making the tyres abit less durable, last season the Bridgestones were just too good in that respect. I don't like it so much as it randomises the races abit leaving it feeling like its forced but then Canada was one of the best races in memory when the tyres wern't holding up.
Might be a case of which car can look after its tyres but from the drivers comments it seems like it doesn't matter too much what you do with them as they fall to pieces anyway. The real test comes when they get somewhere really hot, it has potential for a farcical outcome but I hope not.
Might be a case of which car can look after its tyres but from the drivers comments it seems like it doesn't matter too much what you do with them as they fall to pieces anyway. The real test comes when they get somewhere really hot, it has potential for a farcical outcome but I hope not.
Yea it's the artificial randomising of things that I don't like, same for Bernie's stupid idea of installing sprinklers. There are far better ways of making the races more interesting and adding more overtaking than making the tyres fall apart.
The easiest and most obvious ones being to tighten up aero regulations (but do a better job of it) so that the 'dirty air' effect is reduced, and also making brakes less effective to increase braking distances. Increasing braking distances is the easiest one to implement and would create far more 'racy' races, and would have the benefit of being manageable and not just randomly chucking people off the track.
The easiest and most obvious ones being to tighten up aero regulations (but do a better job of it) so that the 'dirty air' effect is reduced, and also making brakes less effective to increase braking distances. Increasing braking distances is the easiest one to implement and would create far more 'racy' races, and would have the benefit of being manageable and not just randomly chucking people off the track.
Just seen this on BBC:
the release from Ferrari is brilliant, Ford you fecking bunch idiots!
the release from Ferrari is brilliant, Ford you fecking bunch idiots!The McLaren exiting out of a burning shed presumably
Measuring wing flex abit like Red Bull did last year, good sign.
Measuring wing flex abit like Red Bull did last year, good sign.
That's a nasty wart on its nose
McLaren confirms the extreme nose on the car is a test-only measuring device for 'long-term development purposes'. It won't be raced. - Jon Noble at Autosport.
Anybody watched the BBC Preview clip on the BBC F1 bit, Eddie Jordan lambasting McLaren already He's the F1 equivilant of a transfer muppet, the way he was talking you would think McLaren were so slow they might get lapped 6 times where as in reality at this point nobody knows quite how fast they are but they most certainly ain't that slow.
Brundle gave a fair assessment of what he personally saw at the last test.
He's the F1 equivilant of a transfer muppet, the way he was talking you would think McLaren were so slow they might get lapped 6 times where as in reality at this point nobody knows quite how fast they are but they most certainly ain't that slow.Brundle gave a fair assessment of what he personally saw at the last test.
Exhaust failure for Hamilton during testing now. Lap times at this stage mean feck all, but reliability might be a concern.
Red Bull's wings are legal sir.
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/hsz5ojkj - Shared by Khan_F1
I think thats some great engineering but come on thats not legal having the endplates nearly scraping the ground.
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/hsz5ojkj - Shared by Khan_F1
I think thats some great engineering but come on thats not legal having the endplates nearly scraping the ground.
Just body roll
Tonio Luzzi confirmed as Hispania driver, that's the line up complete.
Mike Gascoyne saying on twitter that after 11 laps the tyres are dropping off, they're trying to adjust rear suspension to see if they can make them last longer.
Mike Gascoyne saying on twitter that after 11 laps the tyres are dropping off, they're trying to adjust rear suspension to see if they can make them last longer.
Am I the only one hoping that the tyres degrade more?
For example Canada was a corker of a race. I think its a nice variable to add to the mix and it does test the skill of the driver in making their tyres last.
It is a difficult one because the aim of the tyre manufacturer has to be to have the most reliable tyres. However less reliability is good for the spectacle.
For example Canada was a corker of a race. I think its a nice variable to add to the mix and it does test the skill of the driver in making their tyres last.
It is a difficult one because the aim of the tyre manufacturer has to be to have the most reliable tyres. However less reliability is good for the spectacle.
The problem is it's somewhat random and not manageable, which means there's less skill involved in dealing with it which kind of defeats the object of a race in my eyes. It's like the tyre wars of Bridgestone v Michelin, at certain tracks one manufacturers tyres were massively better than the rest and so the field wasn't even.
Adding false idiocies into the race doesn't add to the spectacle for me, like with Bernie's idea to add sprinklers, it's stupid. I mentioned on the last page that I reckon the easiest way to increase overtaking is to reduce the effectiveness of the brakes to increase braking distances. Make them use steel discs and you'd see loads more overtaking and the conditions would remain manageable rather than drivers just being randomly chucked off the track like they're playing mario kart.
Adding false idiocies into the race doesn't add to the spectacle for me, like with Bernie's idea to add sprinklers, it's stupid. I mentioned on the last page that I reckon the easiest way to increase overtaking is to reduce the effectiveness of the brakes to increase braking distances. Make them use steel discs and you'd see loads more overtaking and the conditions would remain manageable rather than drivers just being randomly chucked off the track like they're playing mario kart.
Wouldn't that also increase breaking distances for the overtaking car as well, though? I know what you're getting at, but I'm not sure it would contribute to a huge difference. The only real way to increase overtaking is to promote mechanical over aerodynamic grip. Can't remember them precisely, but the aero regs proposed for a couple of years time seemed like good ideas for that.
I think with the tyres it was important for them not to be able to last nearly an entire race distance. A grid full of one stoppers is a tad dull. They might have gone a tad far in the other direction though.
Looks like another season of patience for a few victories and ultimate disappointment as a McLaren fan. Unreliability is surprising.
EDIT - just remembered the proposals were actually about ground effect aero, but still, seemed like good ideas.
Yea braking distances for everyone would be increased, but it would magnify the effect of late braking and thus encourage more overtaking. You know when you see someone brake late into a corner now to make a ballsy pass? Well if everyone's braking distances were doubled (exaggeration) then that would give greater opportunity for late braking because the overall stopping distance is larger.
The aero regs are another way to go, but as we saw with the double defuser debacle it's difficult to make such regulations tight enough when you've got a set of teams with vast budgets doing everything they can to get around them.
The aero regs are another way to go, but as we saw with the double defuser debacle it's difficult to make such regulations tight enough when you've got a set of teams with vast budgets doing everything they can to get around them.
Iam not sure about this tyre degradation.
It could be a good thing and make for some excellent races but it could also mean that the pit stops decide some races and that I dont want.
The way they seem to fall apart is really going to challenge some of the driver's.
I can see Hamilton having problems , he is not very good at saving his tyre's , where has Button is excellent at his , last season he got some very good runs on his tyre's.
Thing about the ground effect proposals (not actually sure if they were official or not, but I hope they were) is that they're actually unlocking a whole new area of the car for aero development that shouldn't affect or be affected by wakes (as much). All the other aero regulations changes tend to be a plain cut of total aero downforce, which is always clawed back somehow, whereas this just shifts it to the underbody. So it's actually kind of contrary to my original point, but will hopefully produce good results if done.
Sensible stuff. I think the reason why no refuelling worked when I was a kid, and why it was slightly less successful last season, is down to the tyres just being too good. I hear what you're saying about false idiocies, but I think there's a happy medium to be had
The problem with these tyre's is they appear to be too bad, sure last season they were a bit too good but it just isn't safe let alone interesting seeing tyre's blow out every week, as it looks like might happen with these.
Most likely, and I'm sure it'll be found eventually, but I'm concerned this coming season is going to be a bit of a farce with these tyres.
I had the same thoughts too , but also worried that they could cause a bad crash if there was a blow out.
Yep, Leg-End posted an article in the last few pages discussing the 'super marbles' coming off them as well, big ass chunks of rubber flying up off the tyres even on the straights. Has the Massa incident not made them stop and think this could be very dangerous?
To be fair, Massa was hit by a hefty piece of suspension, rubber wouldn't cause too much damage even at high speed, I'd imagine. More in danger of seeing Hamilton-esque spinning off whilst the tyres are down to the canvas. Hungary on supersofts will be interesting...
Even the super softs are fecking tough things, one of the hitting you at 150+ would smart quite a bit at least, that's ignoring potential broken arms/collarbones/ribs
A piece of rubber flying through the air is only really going to be able to hit the helmet, and I just don't see it being able to properly crack into it as that debris did to Massa. More of a danger to a car's internals, I'd imagine.
They reckon that each tyre is shedding 1.5kg of rubber over a 20 lap stint. Even a fairly 'light' clump of rubber smacking you on the helmet at 150mph+ is gonna do damage as Phelans rightly says.
Look at the picture at the top of the page, that's a big lump of rubber.
It would depend on the weight of the "marble" in question I suppose, but bearing in mind the thing that hit Massa was around 1kg in weight and extremely rigid, it would take something pretty big and solid to cause any real damage. That picture is impressive, but how heavy do you reckon it is? And it's still rubber, so will have a fair bit of give in it as well.
I wouldn't be so sure of that, just going off the strength of rubber on some of my dogs toys which is undoubtably softer than this, at speed these things will be like a rock hitting you at 150, not as bad as the Massa suspension collision but not pretty either.
It obviously wouldn't be as severe as the spring that hit Massa, but at those speeds there would be no 'give', the only relevant things would be mass + speed and it would be more than sufficient to cause big, big problems. Even if it was only a small piece and the only affect was to slightly knock the drivers head back, he's driving an immensely powerful and twitchy racing car, it wouldn't take much to cause him to spin out and cause a crash.
There'd still be some elasticity to it, surely? I agree about the potential to suprise the driver though, I'm just not sure it could cause much damage directly. Indirectly, quite possible.
I think a decent comparison would be a tennis ball.
The biggest issue isn't for drivers anyway, its for marshalls and spectators in the stands who have no protection from flying rubber, one of those in the eye could cause serious damage. Personally I think it's highly unlikely to cause an issue anymore than in the past, perhaps that image was a freak occurance or manipulated for the story. Motorsport is dangerous, it says so on the ticket.
The biggest issue isn't for drivers anyway, its for marshalls and spectators in the stands who have no protection from flying rubber, one of those in the eye could cause serious damage. Personally I think it's highly unlikely to cause an issue anymore than in the past, perhaps that image was a freak occurance or manipulated for the story. Motorsport is dangerous, it says so on the ticket.
I can't wait for the season to start. I love Ferrari's new car.