The F1 Thread 2011 Season

R_Nick said:
Sorry Martin, but it was pretty fecking obvious Jenson needed to let Massa back past, that's your job to tell him not blame the FIA for not telling you!
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Made somewhat more difficult by Alonso promptly passing Massa, as well. The correct call would have been for Massa to have been allowed to retake both positions. Ferrari were clever about it though.
 
Ubik said:
Made somewhat more difficult by Alonso promptly passing Massa, as well. The correct call would have been for Massa to have been allowed to retake both positions. Ferrari were clever about it though.
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Tough. Letting them both pass would still have been less costly than the, quite frankly inevitable and obvious, drive through penalty. His car was faster and he could have fought straight back. McLaren screwed up in not telling him to immediately cede the position and Whitmarsh knows it even if he won't admit it.
 
R_Nick said:
Tough. Letting them both pass would still have been less costly than the, quite frankly inevitable and obvious, drive through penalty. His car was faster and he could have fought straight back. McLaren screwed up in not telling him to immediately cede the position and Whitmarsh knows it even if he won't admit it.
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Could he also just have pitted or something, let them past then dive into the pits immediately?
 
R_Nick said:
Tough. Letting them both pass would still have been less costly than the, quite frankly inevitable and obvious, drive through penalty. His car was faster and he could have fought straight back. McLaren screwed up in not telling him to immediately cede the position and Whitmarsh knows it even if he won't admit it.
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No competitive team is going to let both cars of a rival team through when only one of them was passed wrongly, especially when he'd been toiling behind the slower one of the two for the entire race. It's the race director/stewards' job to sort these things out, which they should have done by quickly telling the teams to put it back into Massa-Button-Alonso order. McLaren were just doing their job in holding out for the best result for their driver, just like Ferrari were when they told Massa to allow Alonso past to make it more difficult for Button to give back the place, and then by pitting Massa to guarantee that Button got a drive through.

In hindsight, the best course of action McLaren could have taken was to pit Button immediately, but oh well.

Ole's_toe_poke said:
Its hard not to like Sebastien. Fantastic driver and great attitude. He is one of a number of drivers I admire on this grid.
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Not it isn't. When giving your car a woman's name is a sign of personality and a sense of humour, I really despair.
 
Ubik said:
No competitive team is going to let both cars of a rival team through when only one of them was passed wrongly, especially when he'd been toiling behind the slower one of the two for the entire race. It's the race director/stewards' job to sort these things out, which they should have done by quickly telling the teams to put it back into Massa-Button-Alonso order. McLaren were just doing their job in holding out for the best result for their driver, just like Ferrari were when they told Massa to allow Alonso past to make it more difficult for Button to give back the place, and then by pitting Massa to guarantee that Button got a drive through.
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It's got nothing to do with being competitive, he clearly gained position from going off the track, you either yield or get a drive through, it's very simple. These guys are master tacticians, it should have been blindingly obvious that allowing Massa (and if needs be Alonso) through is less detrimental than the 25 seconds he loses driving at 40mph down the pit lane.

Re the bit in bold, no it isn't! The stewards are there to administer the rules, not act as race engineers for every team! Crying that race control didn't tell them to yield the position is tripe and Whitmarsh knew it even as he was saying it. If it was down to race control to sort those situations out you'd never see anyone given a drive through because they'd all be simply told by Charlie what to do to avoid it.

The teams know the rules and have to abide by them or they get penalised, and McLaren cost Jenson today.
 
I like Vettel, though has to be said last season some of the stuff with Webber put me off him somewhat. Rare you see a World Champion who doesn't have that side to them though
 
I've explained why I don't like Hamilton before, at first I quite liked him but he became very cocky very fast and he began to grate with me. He was every bit as much a gimp as Alonso during the 2007 Saga at McLaren, and just generally strikes me an arrogant twat.

Great driver though.
 
R_Nick said:
It's got nothing to do with being competitive, he clearly gained position from going off the track, you either yield or get a drive through, it's very simple. These guys are master tacticians, it should have been blindingly obvious that allowing Massa (and if needs be Alonso) through is less detrimental than the 25 seconds he loses driving at 40mph down the pit lane.
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Yes, it does. I'm sure he would have yielded had Massa not quickly and efficiently fallen right behind Alonso. You cannot deny that this complicated the situation, and obviously caused McLaren to delay making a decision. Teams will give away nothing more than is absolutely necessary, that's written into the DNA of the sport.

R_Nick said:
Re the bit in bold, no it isn't! The stewards are there to administer the rules, not act as race engineers for every team! Crying that race control didn't tell them to yield the position is tripe and Whitmarsh knew it even as he was saying it. If it was down to race control to sort those situations out you'd never see anyone given a drive through because they'd all be simply told by Charlie what to do to avoid it.

The teams know the rules and have to abide by them or they get penalised, and McLaren cost Jenson today.
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Then why do teams have frequent conversations with race control over the radio to discuss how to deal with a certain situation? They talk it out with Whiting prior to something going to the stewards. Whitmarsh has been in the sport for a couple of decades, I'm sure he's fully aware of how to sort out disputes and acted accordingly. It just wasn't the cut and dried situation you're making it out to be, and Ferrari took full advantage of that.
 
They have updated the league table by the way, but i cant post the picture. Joint Second. :)
Well done Nick
 
Ubik said:
Yes, it does. I'm sure he would have yielded had Massa not quickly and efficiently fallen right behind Alonso. You cannot deny that this complicated the situation, and obviously caused McLaren to delay making a decision. Teams will give away nothing more than is absolutely necessary, that's written into the DNA of the sport.
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Of course the Ferrari's swapping positions made it more difficult but it was still a pretty simple decision. Two track positions and about 3-5 seconds loss or a 25 second drive through penalty? Absolute no brainer and McLaren should have resolved it straight away.

Then why do teams have frequent conversations with race control over the radio to discuss how to deal with a certain situation? They talk it out with Whiting prior to something going to the stewards. Whitmarsh has been in the sport for a couple of decades, I'm sure he's fully aware of how to sort out disputes and acted accordingly. It just wasn't the cut and dried situation you're making it out to be, and Ferrari took full advantage of that.
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Teams ask for advice for more complicated matters of course, but stuff like this is schoolboy.

If it's down to race control to tell people to yield positions why do we ever see drive through penalties?
 
I like Seb don't really get the hate always seems like a nice bloke doesn't come across as dislikeable to me. But I could say same for Lewis people give there reason that I don't agree with.
 
R_Nick said:
Of course the Ferrari's swapping positions made it more difficult but it was still a pretty simple decision. Two track positions and about 3-5 seconds loss or a 25 second drive through penalty? Absolute no brainer and McLaren should have resolved it straight away.
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If that was the decision, of course you're right. At that point however, it wasn't the decision. The other choice was to confer with race control and see if there could be a solution where Ferrari would tell Alonso to let Massa back through. I don't know if that's what they chose or whether they were even as bothered about Alonso, but for myself watching it at the time, I didn't think that giving up both positions would be particularly fair, so regard this third choice as perfectly legitimate.

R_Nick said:
Teams ask for advice for more complicated matters of course, but stuff like this is schoolboy.

If it's down to race control to tell people to yield positions why do we ever see drive through penalties?
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From memory, we don't see many drive throughs for illegal overtakes. The race directors don't have final authority over decisions, but they can certainly give advice and mediate between teams if there's a more complex situation. Hamilton and Raikkonen at Spa a few years back is a good example, they said that Whiting had told them the position had been given back adequately, the stewards disagreed and Hamilton got penalised.

Thinking about it, has there been a similar situation like this before, where a driver would have to give back two positions instead of solely the person he overtook?

Rooney1987 said:
I like Seb don't really get the hate always seems like a nice bloke doesn't come across as dislikeable to me. But I could say same for Lewis people give there reason that I don't agree with.
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Don't hate him or anything, just doesn't seem overtly likeable to me. Bit irritating.
 
There's three reasons I can't bring myself to like Vettel, 1. The finger, 2. The rent a quote radio messages and 3. Helmut Marko.
 
Sepang will be an interesting one - Red Bull will need to get their KERS working and reliable, the consequence of which being that it supposedly quickens rear-tyre wear, which was already greater than Hamilton's in Melbourne.

They've certainly got the car to beat, but I'm hopeful that it's not quite as invincible as it seemed after quali.
 
so do we all agree then that the DRS system at melbourne is a load of shite? i mean the amount of drivers who used it and still could not overtake was fecking crazy, looking a the first overtake which was buttons it looks more like he outbraked the sauber rarther than the DRS actually helping him to make a pass, not a good start for all the moveable rear wing hype
 
iSparky said:
The standings at the end of round 1

screenshot20110327at125.png
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How do i join this?
 
Kimi bored of WRC already?.

NobleF1 - Just leaving Melbourne and hear news Kimi Raikkonen is going NASCAR racing. Story on AUTOSPORT soon
 
Kimi is like Fat Ronaldo for me. Fantastic driver. Did reach the pinnacle. But there will always be a "what if?" for me. He could've been so much more.
 
He got fed up of the off track nonsense that goes along with F1, he was a driver in the mould of the older times, he just wanted to drive and enjoy it. Shame because he was bloody brilliant.
 
Nicolas Hamilton makes his race debut this weekend in the Clio Cup, great story and best of luck to him. Pretty sure his races will be on ITV4 sunday as part of the all day BTCC broadcast.
 
I've seen it, alot of it is footage most F1 fans have seen (well those that have watched for years and youtube surf alot) but don't let that put you off because its a great insight into the man and his ideology of what racing is. Obviously you know how it ends so its not spoilers but I'll spoiler tag my thougts:

The film really captures the nightmare that was Imola 94, the whole weekend was cursed, I mean I wasn't really old enough to understand it and I don't remember it despite my dad telling me I watched it you can just tell from the footage and peoples recollections that something was strange that weekend. Niki Lauda said "God has had his hand on F1 for a very long time, this weekend he took it away and we could see F1 for the nightmare it was".

This had some reactions of Senna of the accidents of Barrichello and Ratzenberger too which were new to me. At the very end when they show the faces of the people that were closest to Senna at different points of their careers at his funeral and then cut to joyful scenes and celebrations with him was kinda hard to watch without welling up.

But in summary all the key career moments are there, sometimes abit more chat than race footage when theres no need but I hear there is a shorter version with less chat. My favorite piece is just after Senna is excluded from Suzuka 89, Ron Dennis is giving a presentation on the injustice of Senna be excluded by showing previous races where similar instances of corner cutting have happened without penalty.

But yeah if your a fan you should watch this movie.
 
I really hope they haven't bowed to the pressure over the tyre wear already.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
The release date for Senna is 3rd June , cant wait to watch it looks fantastic.
The weekend of Senna's and Roland Ratzenberger death was traumatic and I did not watch another F1 race for about 3 years.
I can still remember to this day watching Senns's car slam in to the wall.

BBC - Andrew Benson: Senna immortalised in new movie
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I'm looking forward to the film, I hope its as good as the reviews suggest. I fancy I'm gunna enjoy whatever given the subject

I still remember it too. I was pretty young so it didn't all sink in perhaps. When he crashed into the wall I thought nothing more of it really, hit it hard seemed to be a regular occurance in F1 (usually, with tyres present of course). It was the pool of red that tipped me off, before they covered it up. I went out to play, rumour was he was in a coma. I came in later, and he'd died. Didn't seem real, you still expected him to be there next race!

My mum always said when he was sat in the car before the start, he didn't look like he wanted to be there. She also slated Hakkinen because he apparently didn't want to stop the race after the crash? I can't remember that

Thank feck he's the last driver to have died at an F1 race, small blessings
 
B Cantona said:
I'm looking forward to the film, I hope its as good as the reviews suggest. I fancy I'm gunna enjoy whatever given the subject

I still remember it too. I was pretty young so it didn't all sink in perhaps. When he crashed into the wall I thought nothing more of it really, hit it hard seemed to be a regular occurance in F1 (usually, with tyres present of course). It was the pool of red that tipped me off, before they covered it up. I went out to play, rumour was he was in a coma. I came in later, and he'd died. Didn't seem real, you still expected him to be there next race!

My mum always said when he was sat in the car before the start, he didn't look like he wanted to be there. She also slated Hakkinen because he apparently didn't want to stop the race after the crash? I can't remember that

Thank feck he's the last driver to have died at an F1 race, small blessings
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I don't remember the Hakkinen thing either , but what I do remember is saying to my mate's , that Senna was dead , I knew straight away , the speed he hit that wall , there was no way out.
It was a horrific weekend for F1 and thank fully one that has never been repeated.
I could not watch the next race.
 
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