Off james Allen on Twitter - Media voices around the world suggest Raikkonen in talks with Mercedes about dramatic comeback. Is it real or urban myth?
The F1 Thread 2010 Season
- Thread starter EZee
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i thought he has gonna go rallying?
depends if they want that all german team or not i suppose but he is only 30 (I think) and a better driver than anybody else who is available at the moment
Wouldnt surprise me, Raikkonen is after a paycheck.
Yawn.
Sounds like Brawn/Mercedes wanted him gone in actual fact. Eddie Jordan confirmed this on 5Live this morning and said the last thing it was about was money.
Right back at ya. He priced himself out of the McLaren drive simply because he wants a normal salary on top of what Ferrari are paying him, and all teams know it. I like Raikkonen, don't think that I dont but the guy should go race rally then I have a reason to watch it again.
If you got paid off from your job now and went for a new one would you take a pay cut from your new employer equivalent to your pay off from your last one? His payment from Ferrari is irrelevant to his negotiations with McLaren. If he demanded equal pay to Hamilton then its hardly a greed issue, its just demanding to be on equal standing which there is nothing wrong with.
If Kimi does go to Mercedes, then we'll know that Button was offered decent money, as for sure Kimi will want a sufficient salary, and probably in excess of what Button wanted.
I'm not sure whether it was down to the money or what at Mercedes for Button, I suspect they did want to keep him, and he thinks McLaren will have a better car.
I'm not sure whether it was down to the money or what at Mercedes for Button, I suspect they did want to keep him, and he thinks McLaren will have a better car.
First reaction to this was that its bollocks but just looked around a few places and its being reported quite heavily, hope its true.
I tell you what could be interesting, the battle for Vettel.
As I'm sure when his Red Bull contract is up, don't think it is for a couple of seasons, both Ferrari and Mercedes will be very interested in his signature
As I'm sure when his Red Bull contract is up, don't think it is for a couple of seasons, both Ferrari and Mercedes will be very interested in his signature
Without checking I'm not sure but I think it runs to 2012, and if Red Bull maintain top level status there is nothing to say he won't choose to stay where he is. He's almost certainly on Ferrari's radar though.
Q&A with Nick Fry
Could be face-saving by Fry
I hate it when all the facts are hidden like this, and you have to speculate, hopefully someone like Eddie Jordan will spill the beans
Could be face-saving by Fry
I hate it when all the facts are hidden like this, and you have to speculate, hopefully someone like Eddie Jordan will spill the beans
I don't think money was the issue to be honest.
And if Eddie Jordon told me it was raining I'd look out the window to check.
And if Eddie Jordon told me it was raining I'd look out the window to check.
He'd have had parity with whoever he or she may have been eh Fry?
Someone's stuck in bullshitters mode a tad there!
I think it's disingenuous to criticise Button's loyalty given the lengths he went to in order to join the original Honda team, and that he stayed and tried to develop them as they struggled, and of course when Honda quit, he was cited as a key reason the team may be saved and picked up by someone else. And of course he took a major pay cut to allow it to happen. Now he's World Champion, and Mercedes come in, should his loyalty not have been more rewarded. Should his contract situation not have been sorted out a long time ago? We don't know the figures, but I find it hard to believe Button has left that team because of greed
Someone's stuck in bullshitters mode a tad there!
I think it's disingenuous to criticise Button's loyalty given the lengths he went to in order to join the original Honda team, and that he stayed and tried to develop them as they struggled, and of course when Honda quit, he was cited as a key reason the team may be saved and picked up by someone else. And of course he took a major pay cut to allow it to happen. Now he's World Champion, and Mercedes come in, should his loyalty not have been more rewarded. Should his contract situation not have been sorted out a long time ago? We don't know the figures, but I find it hard to believe Button has left that team because of greed
The question about loyalty is a bit annoying, Jenson stuck with Honda through some fecking woeful days to try to criticise it now is a little sour grapes.
A team mate he hasn't got a hope in hell of beating. Lets cut the bullshit Brad, his world title win was an absolute fluke in a similar sense to that young Canadian 12 years ago. There was nothing amazing about it. He was in the best car on the grid 'by large margin' and then when the competition caught up, looked average. He should be rightly spanked by Hamilton.
He did have a car advantage yes, but he still drove very well. And he looked far from average in Brazil.
One thing is for sure though, if things go his way next year there will be a lot of people left looking rather silly.
One thing is for sure though, if things go his way next year there will be a lot of people left looking rather silly.
He did drive very well at the start, but lost the plot when the car stopped working the way he wanted it to. Its all well and good to be fast when the car is with you, but if you can't make the car work, then your a fairly average driver. The reason why drivers like Raikkonen, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton are/were the top four on the f1 grid. Rubens is the same as Button, just look at his Ferrari days. Michael had the all round skill to make the car work 'some of his closer races', while Rubens fluttered around in 4th and 5th.
I agree he's got a superior team mate now. Not a hope in hell of beating? You'd think not, but time will tell. This is F1, all it takes is a couple of retirements and you could be 20 points ahead of your team mate (or two gold medals ahead
)As for saying his title victory was a fluke... what a load of nonsense. Unless I'm allowed to say all Schumacher's victories, when he had the best car by a mile, were a fluke too? There's no doubt the Brawn was the best on the grid early on, but like a true champion, Button absolutely battered home his advantage. Barrichello didn't win a single race while the Brawn was dominant, while Jenson took 6 of the first 7
Then of course the rest of the pack caught up, and Brawn didn't have quite the same advantage and Button really had to battle for his points. And to his credit, he finished the season having failed to point only once, his retirement in Belgium. And that was enough so that over the season, his results were better than anyone elses, and he was a deserved world champion. This 'fluke' talk is a load of bullshit
I don't think it's a load of "bullshit", but then his Championship win was not a "fluke" either. I mean, he scored more points than anyone else and that made him World Champion. Pretty simple. But at the same time I don't think anyone except the most blinkered fan can honestly say a huge part of that wasn't down to the car. Yes, he won those opening races, but that's because the car was just that much better than the competition. When the other teams had caught up he performed comparatively very poorly.
You're very keen to talk about 'second half of the season championships', Brad, and so if we look at that then Button wouldn't even be in the top three. Hamilton, Vettel and Webber all outscored him once the cars had evened up. Hardly the hallmark of greatness.
On a completely separate note, though:
Rumours of Danica Patrick have been around a long time. She's glamorous, young, and actually a pretty good driver. I wouldn't be completely shocked to see her tip up in a Mercedes team looking to make its mark on the world - and I see no other reason why Nick Fry would specify the he or she.
You're very keen to talk about 'second half of the season championships', Brad, and so if we look at that then Button wouldn't even be in the top three. Hamilton, Vettel and Webber all outscored him once the cars had evened up. Hardly the hallmark of greatness.
On a completely separate note, though:
Nick Fry said:
Rumours of Danica Patrick have been around a long time. She's glamorous, young, and actually a pretty good driver. I wouldn't be completely shocked to see her tip up in a Mercedes team looking to make its mark on the world - and I see no other reason why Nick Fry would specify the he or she.
He had the same car as Barrichello, and he absolutely battered him early on
Whether the cars great or not, you still have to perform, and you still have to get the car home first
Button did that hands down. He cashed in like a true champion does
What a strange and bizarre notion that a championship victory is a fluke if you have the best car! That's plenty of Schumacher's F1 career down the tube then! Besides the point, he didn't have the best car for the whole season, far from it in that second half. And yet he kept pumping the points finishes in
Seems some people who've shown prior for having an issue with Button before just can't put down those sour grapes just yet...
Whether the cars great or not, you still have to perform, and you still have to get the car home first
Button did that hands down. He cashed in like a true champion does
What a strange and bizarre notion that a championship victory is a fluke if you have the best car! That's plenty of Schumacher's F1 career down the tube then! Besides the point, he didn't have the best car for the whole season, far from it in that second half. And yet he kept pumping the points finishes in
Seems some people who've shown prior for having an issue with Button before just can't put down those sour grapes just yet...
Yeh, but he's a better driver than a thirty-seven year old Barichello well into the twilight of his career. I'm not denying that.
And you can't mention the points in the second half of the season as if consistently finishing behind your competitors is an achievement of some such!
With Schumacher, you're right - he often had the best car by far and that made things very, very boring. But the difference there is when he wasn't in the best car he still won races, challenged for titles, even won some. Button, on the other hand, became anonymous with middling-point finishes as soon as the car wasn't the best on the grid anymore.
And there you go again with your last statement, Brad. Someone disagrees with you - they must have an agenda!
The difference is, even when the Ferrari was having off days 'and there was a good few in his dominant years', he could bring in his natural ability and outdrive others around him in an inferior car. You always knew the Ferrari was by far the best car on the grid on any given day when Rubens was following Michael most of the way, if not, then the class between the two drivers really started showing.
The point that you forgetting is that Jenson is "only" on 6 million pounds per year. Jaques 5 years "5 fecking years" after his one and only world title, was earning 23 million pounds a season. A team like McLaren 'who can well afford that kind of salary', don't see that kind of investment in him 'Button'. The fact that Brawn wouldn't match a 'relatively' poultry 6 million pounds for a WDC speaks enough in itself.
McLaren don't have the financial muscle of Mercedes behind them any more, so I don't think its clear what they can and cannot 'well afford' just yet. And Brawn reportedly offered him more money than he's getting from McLaren.
Far from it CD, it's usually me that gets accused of having an agendaAlonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen... for much of this season, they all had poor cars. And they all had their spells trundling around in the mid to lower places. Does that mean they weren't worthy champions either?
It's all very well saying Button isn't Schumacher... shock horror... but he did exactly what Schumacher has done 7 times in the past (once by way of cheating) and that was to score more points than his rivals over the course of the season
I always find it odd when some people think having the best car is somehow dirty, and unfair! Never mind the fact Button didn't even have the best car all season
He's a worthy champion, and anything other than that is merely sour grapes. Is he the best driver on the grid? The majority would say no. But fair play, he's but himself on the line. He'll be up against Hamilton in the same equipment. This would be the perfect way to silence the critics if he did outperform his team mate
All it speaks about is a team with restricted operating costs, nothing more.
Given the guy took a pay cut last season so his team could exist, and had previous bought out his own contract at Williams just so he could drive a competitive (so he thought) car... the accusations of him being a money grabbing leach are just so far of the mark it's laughable!
Indeed.
Has your name changed again, Brad?!
FFS I didn't even twig that was brad!!!
Just a minor tweak. It's this way for life now. Promise
From what i'm aware, the McLaren Mercedes deal hasn't changed at all. You can almost bet your house that the engine going in to the new McLaren has Mercedes loins.
I'm not calling him a money grubbing leach, but a world champion should be offered more '& ask for more' then what he's getting.
Eddie Jordan just said on 5live Michael Schumacher will drive for Ross Brawn Mercedes next year.
Linky
That would be some way to steal the Public Relations thunder back from McLaren who did really piss on their chips with signing the reigning World Champion
Mercedes will still supply engines to McLaren until 2015
Mercedes have sold (or are selling) back their 40% stake in the team. Their engines will still power the cars but with McLaren as a customer that's all. Mercedes do not provide financial backing there any more.
i'm guessing that they wont get as many top engines (in the sense they don't get first choice for them)
Engine development has been frozen so it won't make any odds.
Also, the rules state that the manufacturers aren't allowed to know which engines are going where; that's randomised so they can't put more effort into the engines of the works cars in the factory.
And the Schumacher thing must be bollocks. It has to be.
And the Schumacher thing must be bollocks. It has to be.