Brawn GP
Interim livery, great looking car.
Interim livery, great looking car.
The F1 Thread 2009 Season
- Thread starter Leg-End
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Will the BBC have their basic F1 coverage on BBC1 or BBC2?
Those are the only BBC channels I can receive here in Belgium and I would love to watch the races on the BBC!
Those are the only BBC channels I can receive here in Belgium and I would love to watch the races on the BBC!
It'll be on one or the other, probably 2 I guess. They're making a big deal of this, it's not going on the shitty freeview channels.
BBC have a really comprehensive package, you will be able to watch all free practice sessions via red button and the website, the race and qualifying itself will be on BBC1.
Final times from todays testing
Final times:
1. Jenson Button - 1.19:127 124 laps
2. Felipe Massa - 1.20:168 109 laps
3. Robert Kubica - 1.20:217 109 laps
4. Timo Glock - 1.20:410 127 laps
5. Sebastian Vettel - 1.21:165 102 laps
6. Nico Rosberg - 1.21:324 89 laps
7. Giancarlo Fisichella - 1.21:545 97 laps
8. Sebastien Buemi - 1.21:569 140 laps
9. Lewis Hamilton - 1.21:657 82 laps
10.Fernando Alonso - 1.21:863 107 laps
Really impressive first test for Brawn GP so far. I was expecting them to turn up be towards the bottom and break down a fair bit. To top the timesheets on their 3rd day by over 1 second is pretty darn incredible. Granted we don't know how fast the others can go just yet it's still a very quick time for a new car.
Final times from todays testing
Final times:
1. Jenson Button - 1.19:127 124 laps
2. Felipe Massa - 1.20:168 109 laps
3. Robert Kubica - 1.20:217 109 laps
4. Timo Glock - 1.20:410 127 laps
5. Sebastian Vettel - 1.21:165 102 laps
6. Nico Rosberg - 1.21:324 89 laps
7. Giancarlo Fisichella - 1.21:545 97 laps
8. Sebastien Buemi - 1.21:569 140 laps
9. Lewis Hamilton - 1.21:657 82 laps
10.Fernando Alonso - 1.21:863 107 laps
Really impressive first test for Brawn GP so far. I was expecting them to turn up be towards the bottom and break down a fair bit. To top the timesheets on their 3rd day by over 1 second is pretty darn incredible. Granted we don't know how fast the others can go just yet it's still a very quick time for a new car.
I never pay any attention to pre season testing times. All manner of reasons why pace may be quicker or slower than is actually the case. That said, really is impressive from Brawn GP. I guess it's not really a new team as such, and the car will have been developed by Honda, who did have a few bob to throw at it
Yeah I remember last year with BMW with there pre season testing times they were so poor.
I can't wait to...Listen to the wind blow, Watch the sun rise!!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7941572.stm
Is this just a smokescreen or can we seriously expect McLaren to struggle this season?
Is this just a smokescreen or can we seriously expect McLaren to struggle this season?
Looks like they are genuinely struggling. McLaren are great car developers and they will catch up to a decent pace but maybe not quick enough to mount a title or constructers challenge though. To be honest it wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to Hamilton in his career at this stage, in fact I can't wait to watch him wrestling that thing around and trying his overtakes.
If the Brawn GP is as quick as we think, then its Jenson's turn in the spotlight this season.
If the Brawn GP is as quick as we think, then its Jenson's turn in the spotlight this season.
If the Brawn is genuinely the fastest car on the grid, why have Honda bailed now? I mean their money woes must be horrific, spending all that time in F1 struggling only to leave when they're top dog! Honda have developed that car, so they must have known where it stood
Quite frankly I think they saw the sales figures for November through December and knee-jerked. The money they were piling in was always going to dry up in the end, but they basically wrote off from mid 2007 to concentrate on 2009 and then pulled out before they even got the chance to see what they had. Ross Brawn knew the potential overwise he would not have risked taking the team on.
Is it worth having a punt on Button / Barrichello winning the drivers championship?
Or Brawn GP to win the constructors?
Or Brawn GP to win the constructors?
You will get the best odds about now if they do go on and be the team to beat. Do it before the Jerez test next week where they may confirm their pace.
It's worth a punt on a Button/Brawn GP win, I say Button ahead of Barrichello because I think Button will be in his element this year.
Brawn GP only trying too be attractive for potential sponsors by riding with low fuel in tests and having the car more lighter than the rules allow.
Based on rumours and hope of other teams and fans. James Allen who has an excellent blog site also reckons the pace is real http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/
"If you make a direct comparison between the race distance runs of Massa and Button on Wednesday and Barrichello on Thursday you see that Jenson does 19 laps below 1m 21, Barrichello does 14, while Massa manages just 2!"
20 lap runs are not low fuel and the car is getting quicker over a stint, not slower like the rest of the teams. What you have to appreciate is this car has been in development for 18 months or more and they have had their wind tunnels recalibrated to actually work under the guidance of Ross Brawn which was the main factor of the awful RA107.
You could argue the car is underweight but that is thin argument when you realise they are running without KERS and have ballast placed where they want to maximise the cars laptime. I for one do not think a team run by Ross Brawn would run a car underweight, this is a guy that has been heavily involved in making 2 teams world champions. We shall see how they go at Jerez.
Wow.McLaren openly coming put saying they are behind. I don't think they are expecting race wins in the first few races. A few others look competitive and there are a few individual talents like Alonso & Vettal in the field.
Really cannot wait for the first race.
Really cannot wait for the first race.
Fota makes its point on podium rewards
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article5920955.ece
The world governing body of motorsport, the FIA, will vote today on a proposed new points system for Formula One that will better reward drivers who win races or make the podium.
A session of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council in Paris will consider making a change from the present scale of ten, eight and six points for the first three finishers in a grand prix to 12, nine and seven points respectively, with the minor places unchanged at five, four, three, two and one point.
The impetus for the change is coming from the Formula One Teams Association (Fota), which says a survey of fans has indicated that it would be a popular move. However, Fota's initiative is not the preferred option of Bernie Ecclestone, the Formula One commercial rights-holder, who still wants to see a medals-based system.
Martin Whitmarsh, the team principal of McLaren, is convinced that the system is the way forward and he wants it in place for the first race of the season in Melbourne a week on Sunday. “Having conducted a very thorough survey of audience views and advice, we shouldn't ignore it,” he said. “We, as Fota, have unanimously agreed that [this] is what we want to see introduced this year.”
The world governing body of motorsport, the FIA, will vote today on a proposed new points system for Formula One that will better reward drivers who win races or make the podium.
A session of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council in Paris will consider making a change from the present scale of ten, eight and six points for the first three finishers in a grand prix to 12, nine and seven points respectively, with the minor places unchanged at five, four, three, two and one point.
The impetus for the change is coming from the Formula One Teams Association (Fota), which says a survey of fans has indicated that it would be a popular move. However, Fota's initiative is not the preferred option of Bernie Ecclestone, the Formula One commercial rights-holder, who still wants to see a medals-based system.
Martin Whitmarsh, the team principal of McLaren, is convinced that the system is the way forward and he wants it in place for the first race of the season in Melbourne a week on Sunday. “Having conducted a very thorough survey of audience views and advice, we shouldn't ignore it,” he said. “We, as Fota, have unanimously agreed that [this] is what we want to see introduced this year.”
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Have to say I'm all for this. I don't like the points system at the moment, not enough reward for actually winning races. This may only be a subtle change, but I think it's a good one. Much better than Bernie's idea which goes too far the other way
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article5920955.ece
The world governing body of motorsport, the FIA, will vote today on a proposed new points system for Formula One that will better reward drivers who win races or make the podium.
A session of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council in Paris will consider making a change from the present scale of ten, eight and six points for the first three finishers in a grand prix to 12, nine and seven points respectively, with the minor places unchanged at five, four, three, two and one point.
The impetus for the change is coming from the Formula One Teams Association (Fota), which says a survey of fans has indicated that it would be a popular move. However, Fota's initiative is not the preferred option of Bernie Ecclestone, the Formula One commercial rights-holder, who still wants to see a medals-based system.
Martin Whitmarsh, the team principal of McLaren, is convinced that the system is the way forward and he wants it in place for the first race of the season in Melbourne a week on Sunday. “Having conducted a very thorough survey of audience views and advice, we shouldn't ignore it,” he said. “We, as Fota, have unanimously agreed that [this] is what we want to see introduced this year.”
The world governing body of motorsport, the FIA, will vote today on a proposed new points system for Formula One that will better reward drivers who win races or make the podium.
A session of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council in Paris will consider making a change from the present scale of ten, eight and six points for the first three finishers in a grand prix to 12, nine and seven points respectively, with the minor places unchanged at five, four, three, two and one point.
The impetus for the change is coming from the Formula One Teams Association (Fota), which says a survey of fans has indicated that it would be a popular move. However, Fota's initiative is not the preferred option of Bernie Ecclestone, the Formula One commercial rights-holder, who still wants to see a medals-based system.
Martin Whitmarsh, the team principal of McLaren, is convinced that the system is the way forward and he wants it in place for the first race of the season in Melbourne a week on Sunday. “Having conducted a very thorough survey of audience views and advice, we shouldn't ignore it,” he said. “We, as Fota, have unanimously agreed that [this] is what we want to see introduced this year.”
---
Have to say I'm all for this. I don't like the points system at the moment, not enough reward for actually winning races. This may only be a subtle change, but I think it's a good one. Much better than Bernie's idea which goes too far the other way
feck, well there you go, Bernie essentially got his way. Daft system this, you can accumulate the most points during the season, but lose the championship... barmy
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7948455.stm
Formula 1 has introduced a new points system that will see the driver with most wins crowned world champion.
The current points system will still operate to decide a tie if two drivers have the same wins and to define all other championship positions.
Had the new rules been in place in 2008, Lewis Hamilton would have lost the title to runner-up Felipe Massa.
From 2010, there will be an optional budget cap of £30m that will reduce some teams' spending by 90%.
The new rules were approved by the World Motor Sport Council of governing body the FIA at a meeting in Paris on Tuesday.
It rejected a proposal by the F1 Teams' Association to tweak the points system to 12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1 from first to eighth places.
Instead, the current 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system will stay in place.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7948455.stm
Formula 1 has introduced a new points system that will see the driver with most wins crowned world champion.
The current points system will still operate to decide a tie if two drivers have the same wins and to define all other championship positions.
Had the new rules been in place in 2008, Lewis Hamilton would have lost the title to runner-up Felipe Massa.
From 2010, there will be an optional budget cap of £30m that will reduce some teams' spending by 90%.
The new rules were approved by the World Motor Sport Council of governing body the FIA at a meeting in Paris on Tuesday.
It rejected a proposal by the F1 Teams' Association to tweak the points system to 12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1 from first to eighth places.
Instead, the current 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system will stay in place.
Wins to decide world champion in 2009
By Pablo Elizalde Tuesday, March 17th 2009, 13:35 GMT
Formula 1's world champion in 2009 will be the driver with the most wins during the season, the FIA said on Tuesday.
The governing body also announced that it had rejected a proposal by the Formula One Teams' Association to change the current system. The proposal had been sent by FOTA to the FIA earlier this year.
The FIA announced the current 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system will stay in place, but confirmed the world champion will be the driver who wins the most races in a season.
The points system will be used for the remaining championship positions and in case two or more drivers win the same amount of races during a year.
The Constructors' Championship remains unaffected by the changes.
"The WMSC accepted the proposal from Formula One Management to award the drivers' championship to the driver who has won the most races during the season," said the FIA in a statement.
"If two or more drivers finish the season with the same number of wins, the title will be awarded to the driver with the most points, the allocation of points being based on the current 10, 8, 6 etc. system.
"The rest of the standings, from second to last place, will be decided by the current points system. There is no provision to award medals for first, second or third place. The Constructors' Championship is unaffected.
"The WMSC rejected the alternative proposal from the Formula One Teams' Association to change the points awarded to drivers finishing in first, second and third place to 12, 9 and 7 points respectively. "
FOTA had called for a points system overhaul after it conducted a survey in which fans asked for a greater gap between the points for first and second places to encourage drivers to go for victory.
"FOTA set out and conducted what has been a unique survey," said McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh earlier this month. "That audience survey told us that they wanted greater differentiation for winning and FOTA then considered a broad range of alternatives.
"Inevitably there is a balance to be struck on everything that you do. If you have a very large differentiation between first, second and third it is easy to envisage and to model that seasons may end sooner because championships will be determined sooner.
"And if we reflect on the last two championships they have been quite exciting climaxes and one would say on the face of it why would we want to change? What we felt within FOTA was having conducted a very thorough survey of audience views and advice we shouldn't ignore it.
"There were people who felt status quo was the best thing but I think what swung it was the opinion of the audience. We, as FOTA, have unanimously agreed that is what we want to see introduced this year. We now have to work with the commercial rights holder and with the FIA and seek their endorsement of that proposal."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73744
I really don't like this I do agree there should be a better reward for winning races but not this. So if you win 2 race's end up with about 20 points at the end of the season will win the title over some who finished 2nd in all of the all 17 races with 136 pints.
By Pablo Elizalde Tuesday, March 17th 2009, 13:35 GMT
Formula 1's world champion in 2009 will be the driver with the most wins during the season, the FIA said on Tuesday.
The governing body also announced that it had rejected a proposal by the Formula One Teams' Association to change the current system. The proposal had been sent by FOTA to the FIA earlier this year.
The FIA announced the current 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system will stay in place, but confirmed the world champion will be the driver who wins the most races in a season.
The points system will be used for the remaining championship positions and in case two or more drivers win the same amount of races during a year.
The Constructors' Championship remains unaffected by the changes.
"The WMSC accepted the proposal from Formula One Management to award the drivers' championship to the driver who has won the most races during the season," said the FIA in a statement.
"If two or more drivers finish the season with the same number of wins, the title will be awarded to the driver with the most points, the allocation of points being based on the current 10, 8, 6 etc. system.
"The rest of the standings, from second to last place, will be decided by the current points system. There is no provision to award medals for first, second or third place. The Constructors' Championship is unaffected.
"The WMSC rejected the alternative proposal from the Formula One Teams' Association to change the points awarded to drivers finishing in first, second and third place to 12, 9 and 7 points respectively. "
FOTA had called for a points system overhaul after it conducted a survey in which fans asked for a greater gap between the points for first and second places to encourage drivers to go for victory.
"FOTA set out and conducted what has been a unique survey," said McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh earlier this month. "That audience survey told us that they wanted greater differentiation for winning and FOTA then considered a broad range of alternatives.
"Inevitably there is a balance to be struck on everything that you do. If you have a very large differentiation between first, second and third it is easy to envisage and to model that seasons may end sooner because championships will be determined sooner.
"And if we reflect on the last two championships they have been quite exciting climaxes and one would say on the face of it why would we want to change? What we felt within FOTA was having conducted a very thorough survey of audience views and advice we shouldn't ignore it.
"There were people who felt status quo was the best thing but I think what swung it was the opinion of the audience. We, as FOTA, have unanimously agreed that is what we want to see introduced this year. We now have to work with the commercial rights holder and with the FIA and seek their endorsement of that proposal."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73744
I really don't like this I do agree there should be a better reward for winning races but not this. So if you win 2 race's end up with about 20 points at the end of the season will win the title over some who finished 2nd in all of the all 17 races with 136 pints.
Precisely, it's a stunningly daft system, your extreme example highlights precisely why
Imagine if there is a 30 gap leader at the top of the standings. Clearly the better driver by miles, showing Schumacher dominance of the championship. And someone else gets crowned champion because they've won a race more, but lacked any other consistancy? Not for me. FOTA just presented them a bloody good system, that the people wanted, and blind arrogance means they've disregarded it. Doesn't that just sum up F1 eh
Other bit of F1 news today
FIA introduces £30m budget cap
By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, March 17th 2009, 13:30 GMT
The FIA has introduced a budget cap in Formula 1 for the 2010 season, as autosport.com predicted last month, following a meeting of its World Motor Sport Council on Tuesday.
The voluntary cap will be set at £30 million per team per season, and those outfits signing up to the option will be allowed total technical freedom.
The FIA hopes that the move will make it easier for news teams to enter F1 and allow those teams without manufacturer support to be guaranteed a long future in the sport.
As a way of enticing teams to take up the option of the budget cap, the FIA has stated that it will tweak the regulations to ensure those with restricted finances will be just as competitive as those spending unlimited amounts of money.
A statement issued by the FIA said: "The technical freedoms accorded to the low-budget teams will be adjusted from time to time to keep their median performance on a par with the median performance of the unlimited-expenditure teams. The regulations for the unlimited-expenditure teams will remain stable and fixed."
FIA president Max Mosley confirmed that the £30 million budget cap would include drivers' salaries.
When asked what was included, Mosley said: "Everything except the motor home (if the team has one) and any fine(s) imposed by the FIA. All expenditure will be included, even the salaries of the drivers and team principal.
"If the team is profitable, it can pay a dividend to its shareholders, who may well include a chief engineer, team principal or even a driver. But we would make sure the team was genuinely making enough profit to cover the dividend."
Mosley also outlined details of what technical freedoms teams that signed up for the budget cap would be allowed.
"A different (but standard) under body, movable wings, no engine rev limit, no restriction on the number or type of updates, no homologation requirements, no limits on materials, testing, simulators, wind tunnels and so forth - most of the cost saving measures introduced over the last few years will not apply to these teams," he explained.
"However measures to save money during the race weekend, such as the ban on refuelling and the Saturday parc ferme, will apply to both categories of team. We are also thinking about a much bigger capacity KERS for the cost-capped teams. But all this must be covered by the £30 million - no exceptions and no free or subsidised outside help.
"Anything supplied by another team or an outside supplier will be included at its full commercial cost except for items supplied to all teams at subsidised rates under the single supplier arrangements negotiated by the FIA (e.g. for tyres), which allow all teams to benefit equally from reduced costs."
He added: "The engine will comply with current rules, except that there will be no rev limit and no development freeze. However, the entire engine expenditure will come out of the cap. If the engine is supplied by an outside commercial entity or another team, we will have to be satisfied that there is no hidden subsidy.
"If a team has its own engine, we will check its full cost just as we will the rest of the car. The current rule limiting manufacturers to supplying engines to one additional team each will remain in place."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73743
FIA introduces £30m budget cap
By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, March 17th 2009, 13:30 GMT
The FIA has introduced a budget cap in Formula 1 for the 2010 season, as autosport.com predicted last month, following a meeting of its World Motor Sport Council on Tuesday.
The voluntary cap will be set at £30 million per team per season, and those outfits signing up to the option will be allowed total technical freedom.
The FIA hopes that the move will make it easier for news teams to enter F1 and allow those teams without manufacturer support to be guaranteed a long future in the sport.
As a way of enticing teams to take up the option of the budget cap, the FIA has stated that it will tweak the regulations to ensure those with restricted finances will be just as competitive as those spending unlimited amounts of money.
A statement issued by the FIA said: "The technical freedoms accorded to the low-budget teams will be adjusted from time to time to keep their median performance on a par with the median performance of the unlimited-expenditure teams. The regulations for the unlimited-expenditure teams will remain stable and fixed."
FIA president Max Mosley confirmed that the £30 million budget cap would include drivers' salaries.
When asked what was included, Mosley said: "Everything except the motor home (if the team has one) and any fine(s) imposed by the FIA. All expenditure will be included, even the salaries of the drivers and team principal.
"If the team is profitable, it can pay a dividend to its shareholders, who may well include a chief engineer, team principal or even a driver. But we would make sure the team was genuinely making enough profit to cover the dividend."
Mosley also outlined details of what technical freedoms teams that signed up for the budget cap would be allowed.
"A different (but standard) under body, movable wings, no engine rev limit, no restriction on the number or type of updates, no homologation requirements, no limits on materials, testing, simulators, wind tunnels and so forth - most of the cost saving measures introduced over the last few years will not apply to these teams," he explained.
"However measures to save money during the race weekend, such as the ban on refuelling and the Saturday parc ferme, will apply to both categories of team. We are also thinking about a much bigger capacity KERS for the cost-capped teams. But all this must be covered by the £30 million - no exceptions and no free or subsidised outside help.
"Anything supplied by another team or an outside supplier will be included at its full commercial cost except for items supplied to all teams at subsidised rates under the single supplier arrangements negotiated by the FIA (e.g. for tyres), which allow all teams to benefit equally from reduced costs."
He added: "The engine will comply with current rules, except that there will be no rev limit and no development freeze. However, the entire engine expenditure will come out of the cap. If the engine is supplied by an outside commercial entity or another team, we will have to be satisfied that there is no hidden subsidy.
"If a team has its own engine, we will check its full cost just as we will the rest of the car. The current rule limiting manufacturers to supplying engines to one additional team each will remain in place."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73743
I cannot believe they have passed that through, just goes to show how the FIA is run, in fact I don't even think members of the FIA have a choice the big bully's Max and Bernie get an idea and lean on the others until they vote for it one way or another.Clearly out of touch with reality and actually ruining the integrity and legacy of F1. Idiotic idea with so many downfalls it is unreal, they have not even tested it in a lower formula. The current system is fine, in fact it would have been perfect under the proposals by FOTA, 12, 9 , 7.
Just made an interesting season a little less interesting.
Agree with you lot above, obviously. Although it would be interesting to see how this would've effected the last 10 championships.
Whoever has their cars on the ball from race 1 is now within a big chance of winning the Championship. A few early wins and you'd be halfway there....
Whoever has their cars on the ball from race 1 is now within a big chance of winning the Championship. A few early wins and you'd be halfway there....
Statto Brad to the rescue:
2008: Hamilton 98 points, 5 wins; Massa 97 points 6 wins
2007: Raikkonen 110 points, 6 wins; Hamilton/Alonso 109 points, 4 wins
2006: Alonso 134 points, 7 wins; Schumacher 121 points, 7 wins
2005: Alonso 133 points, 7 wins; Raikkonen 112 points, 7 wins
2004: Schumacher 148 points, 13 wins; Barrichello 114 points, 2 wins
2003: Schumacher 93 points, 6 wins; Raikkonen 91 points, 1 win
2002: Schumacher 144 points, 11 wins; Barrichello 77 points, 4 wins
2001: Schumacher 123 points, 9 wins; Barrichello 65 points, 0 wins
2000: Schumacher 108 points, 9 wins; Hakkinen 89 points, 4 wins
1999: Hakkinen 76 points, 5 wins; Irvine 74 points, 4 wins
1998: Hakkinen 100 points, 8 wins; Schumacher 86 points, 6 wins
So the only championship that would have changed hands was last season, when Massa would have victored. Although think how controversial Belgium was, and how much more controversial it would have been with this new system. But given it wouldn't have actually changed anything all the other championships, makes you wonder why they bother to bring such a system in?
Some side notes. In 2003, it was a great title race between Raikkonen and Schumacher. And we'd frankly been devoid of such a thing throughout the Schumacher domination. But Raikkonen only won one race all season. A contest that went down to the last race would have been decided in Italy, leaving two meaningless last races, and realistically the excitement would have gone before then too. Also two other drivers won more races than Raikkonen during the season, but finished miles behind in the table
In 2000, Schumacher won 5 of the first 8 races. Haikinnen made a good fist of it eventually that season, but again the title would have been decided earlier, and with less excitement
And looking back at the Schumacher years made me think of how often Schumacher was gifted victories when his team mate was actually the leader. That was a problem in the past, Schumacher would gain 2 / 4 extra points he didn't really deserve. It'd be even worse now, because the worth of a race victory would take on even greater importance. They may say it's outlawed, but we all know these team instructions go on. If one team allows its drivers to race (what we all want), the team that prioritises one driver will take a MAJOR advantage
2008: Hamilton 98 points, 5 wins; Massa 97 points 6 wins
2007: Raikkonen 110 points, 6 wins; Hamilton/Alonso 109 points, 4 wins
2006: Alonso 134 points, 7 wins; Schumacher 121 points, 7 wins
2005: Alonso 133 points, 7 wins; Raikkonen 112 points, 7 wins
2004: Schumacher 148 points, 13 wins; Barrichello 114 points, 2 wins
2003: Schumacher 93 points, 6 wins; Raikkonen 91 points, 1 win
2002: Schumacher 144 points, 11 wins; Barrichello 77 points, 4 wins
2001: Schumacher 123 points, 9 wins; Barrichello 65 points, 0 wins
2000: Schumacher 108 points, 9 wins; Hakkinen 89 points, 4 wins
1999: Hakkinen 76 points, 5 wins; Irvine 74 points, 4 wins
1998: Hakkinen 100 points, 8 wins; Schumacher 86 points, 6 wins
So the only championship that would have changed hands was last season, when Massa would have victored. Although think how controversial Belgium was, and how much more controversial it would have been with this new system. But given it wouldn't have actually changed anything all the other championships, makes you wonder why they bother to bring such a system in?
Some side notes. In 2003, it was a great title race between Raikkonen and Schumacher. And we'd frankly been devoid of such a thing throughout the Schumacher domination. But Raikkonen only won one race all season. A contest that went down to the last race would have been decided in Italy, leaving two meaningless last races, and realistically the excitement would have gone before then too. Also two other drivers won more races than Raikkonen during the season, but finished miles behind in the table
In 2000, Schumacher won 5 of the first 8 races. Haikinnen made a good fist of it eventually that season, but again the title would have been decided earlier, and with less excitement
And looking back at the Schumacher years made me think of how often Schumacher was gifted victories when his team mate was actually the leader. That was a problem in the past, Schumacher would gain 2 / 4 extra points he didn't really deserve. It'd be even worse now, because the worth of a race victory would take on even greater importance. They may say it's outlawed, but we all know these team instructions go on. If one team allows its drivers to race (what we all want), the team that prioritises one driver will take a MAJOR advantage
TITLES THAT WOULD HAVE CHANGED
1958: Actual champion: Mike Hawthorn
Most wins champion: Stirling Moss
1964: Actual champion: John Surtees
Most wins champion: Jim Clark
1967: Actual champion: Denny Hulme
Most wins champion: Jim Clark
1977: Actual champion: Niki Lauda
Most wins champion: Mario Andretti
1979: Actual champion: Jody Scheckter
Most wins champion: Alan Jones
1981: Actual champion: Nelson Piquet
Most wins champion: Alain Prost
1982: Actual champion: Keke Rosberg
Most wins champion: Didier Pironi
1983: Actual champion: Nelson Piquet
Most wins champion: Alain Prost
1984: Actual champion: Niki Lauda
Most wins champion: Alain Prost
1986: Actual champion: Alain Prost
Most wins champion: Nigel Mansell
1987: Actual champion: Nelson Piquet
Most wins champion: Nigel Mansell
1989: Actual champion: Alain Prost
Most wins champion: Ayrton Senna
2008: Actual champion: Lewis Hamilton
Most wins champion: Felipe Massa
1958: Actual champion: Mike Hawthorn
Most wins champion: Stirling Moss
1964: Actual champion: John Surtees
Most wins champion: Jim Clark
1967: Actual champion: Denny Hulme
Most wins champion: Jim Clark
1977: Actual champion: Niki Lauda
Most wins champion: Mario Andretti
1979: Actual champion: Jody Scheckter
Most wins champion: Alan Jones
1981: Actual champion: Nelson Piquet
Most wins champion: Alain Prost
1982: Actual champion: Keke Rosberg
Most wins champion: Didier Pironi
1983: Actual champion: Nelson Piquet
Most wins champion: Alain Prost
1984: Actual champion: Niki Lauda
Most wins champion: Alain Prost
1986: Actual champion: Alain Prost
Most wins champion: Nigel Mansell
1987: Actual champion: Nelson Piquet
Most wins champion: Nigel Mansell
1989: Actual champion: Alain Prost
Most wins champion: Ayrton Senna
2008: Actual champion: Lewis Hamilton
Most wins champion: Felipe Massa
The one thing that you can't factor in to previous titles is the change in mentality; only going for race wins.
Another instance is when one of the leaders has a problem and starts/drops off into the midfield pack. These drivers then become adventurous just to get those extra few crucial points that may decide the title. The goal difference like system of points is still important but not in the same way as a point would be under the old system.
The positive is, what I assume is the reasoning behind this, is that nobody is going to settle for a podium finish. Race by race, it may be better. Overall title wise, probably not.
Another instance is when one of the leaders has a problem and starts/drops off into the midfield pack. These drivers then become adventurous just to get those extra few crucial points that may decide the title. The goal difference like system of points is still important but not in the same way as a point would be under the old system.
The positive is, what I assume is the reasoning behind this, is that nobody is going to settle for a podium finish. Race by race, it may be better. Overall title wise, probably not.
Drive off into the distance races were bad enough before. At least there might be some good racing behind it, as people seek to limit the damage. Now there's not really any point to it
We'll keep this for a season or two, the powers will be will realise its a garbage system, then it'll be on to a new one
We'll keep this for a season or two, the powers will be will realise its a garbage system, then it'll be on to a new one
yeah id agree with that...
if say 2 ferraris are on the front row one will pull out a massive lead while the other makes his car as wide as possible...
my proposal (and ive said it before)... they say cars generate enough down force to drive upside down...
prove it... compulsary loop the loops at circuits... guarantee it will be much more interesting... possibly jumps as well...
the only good thig that might come from this is the kers stuff... possibly in a few years i might be able to buy a new bmw with a magic overtake button?
It just doesn't work. These cars have gone through a dramatic change this season and now they have thrown this into the works it just spoils the anticipation abit.
There could be a wider spread this season and therefore it is possible that 1 car might dominate atleast until mid-way by which point its probably all over. The idea is good for a spec series but not for F1.
The winner should be the one that wins most, I don't buy that. It's not like the rest just plod around not wanting to win is it? Most of it is down to the car at the end of the day, these sort of rules just cause confusion and possibly alot more accidents with desperate dan overtakes.
There could be a wider spread this season and therefore it is possible that 1 car might dominate atleast until mid-way by which point its probably all over. The idea is good for a spec series but not for F1.
The winner should be the one that wins most, I don't buy that. It's not like the rest just plod around not wanting to win is it? Most of it is down to the car at the end of the day, these sort of rules just cause confusion and possibly alot more accidents with desperate dan overtakes.
New system is stupid. Points rewards consistancy and thats what should win titles.
Agreed.
If they wanted to make it slightly more win biased then just up the points for a win.
So, now if a title challenger has a problem on the grid or in qualifying and ends up at the back, there's basically no point in them trying to rampage through the pack to grab a few vital points. They may as well just sack off the race.
If someone gets off to a cracking start and wins most of the races with a few others drivers winning 1 each. The drivers championship could be over by halfway through the season. I know it's a long-shot but it could happen and make a mockery of the sport.
Ross Brawn is long in the tooth to know that a few quick times in testing will make the advertisers come on board that bit quicker. Jordan, Williams, McLaren and even Simtek did it.
Wow, that is a load of feckery
Let me get this straight if Hamilton finishes with 93 points and 2 grand prix wins and if Alonso finishes with 90 points and 5 wins who wins the championship??
It means going into the last race of the season, it could be four or five guys going for the title with all of them on 2 or 3 wins... then none of them win and it goes to points... useless by F1
Could mean that the WDC could be decided in July as well. Wow did not even put much thought into this until now. Cann't believe Bernie has brought these changes in.
I'll wait and see what happens. F1 is always been tinkered with. Bring me back to the late 80's where qualifying was interesting.
As if the sport needed any less appeal going into the last races... these last few seasons Post-Schoomie have been quality... It makes it damn near impossible for any sort of drama unless the standings in terms of wins are dead even.
By trying to make it a more even pull, they've possibly taken it back to dominance eligability.