They are a serious team. To come back from 1-0 down after losing the away leg 4-2 is very impressive. The most impressive of all the comebacks so far. Also beat Dortmund in the last round.
The Europa League 2017/18(Use the SF thread to discuss the current match)
- Thread starter Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87
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Bundesliga have become terrible outside Bayern. Even BVB isn't different anymore. It's just Bayern.
Think our game against Arsenal falls in between the two semi final legs.
I'd expect a comfortable Utd win.
I'd expect a comfortable Utd win.
No they did not. Their coach did it for them with his idiotic team selection.
How was their team selection idiotic?
Quite frankly Atletico didn't impress me at all during the 2 games, if we take into account we gave them 2 goals last week, missed a goal in the last minute, 2 players suspended, 1 injured, a Presidential meltdown, Mathieu injured at the 23th minute, replaced by Petrovic, don't see how everyone is afraid of Atletico and then think Salzburg is easy because they don't know many of their players?
@Peyroteo I am more worried with Belenenses and Porto tbh
@Peyroteo I am more worried with Belenenses and Porto tbh
Wenger quit?? Never!
Starting Upmecano in central defense after his horrible games recently and benching his 26 year old captain Orban for him. Benching Forsberg, too. Totally and utterly mental. No experience in the team.
The thing with Atletico is they are rarely really impressive, but they do the job. They are also better against strong opposition usually. The season they reached the CL final they only beat PSV on penalties and then kicked Barca and Bayern out. For me they are still clear favorites for the trophy.
The German League is 6th in the coefficient rankings this season, behind Russia and France!
You make me worried. Since they are the favorite, they are at peak of danger zone where the line between job done and feck up is close.
Thanks to Saint Pep putting German football bacl on European football map where they were pre Bayern 3 CL finals
They win more because they have more individual quality than 90% of the teams they face, lets stop with the conversation Atletico are underdogs, they are underdogs compared to Real Madrid or Atletico Madrid, put our players in the hands of Simeone and then come and tell me he would win playing like this.
I always say it and get lambasted for it but the Bundesliga is the most overrated league on these forums. One good team, 17 average teams.
How much do they spend on transfer fees? That's the question, still no excuse, clubs like Dortmund or Schalke at least should do more, tbf with Leipzig it was their first season in Europe.
Dayot has been first choice all season. Konate is the one who he bench Orban for.
15.04.18 Newcastle - Arsenal
22.04.18. Arsenal - West Ham Uited
26.04.18: Semi-finals, first leg
29.04.18 Manchester United (8-2) Arsenal
03.05.18: Semi-finals, second leg
Perfect
I think between 2010 and 2014, the Bundesliga was quite good and rightly had such a good coefficient. IMO this was a very weak period for the Premier League since English clubs missed out on many tactical developments. In the league, clubs had much more time on the ball since few clubs used high pressing lines but internationally they paid the price. Espdcially against Spanish and German sides.
But the PL turned things around with many foreign players and the Bundesliga takes it too far with pressing. Nowadays, the games are awful because few clubs really want to play football and combine their way through the crowded midfield. Instead they rely on long balls, second balls and luck. Really ugly and it only takes you so far. But it works in the league and because clubs like Köln, Frankfurt, Berlin etc. managed to achieve the EL that way, there are many copycats. But they get badly exposed internationally because they simply doesn't have the quality and offensive capabilities. It is a pity, really, because the league produces so so much talent.
Tbh clubs from the Bundesliga don't spend the same amount of money on transfer fees and wages compared to the EPL, also only this season the performance in Europe was bad, but there is a price to pay when so many clubs play with a lot of young players, also looking from the outside the style of football looks like who can press more and stop the other team, while the other team tries to do exactly the same.
Oh and in the end Bayern wins, not their fault they are the only club who can compete with the top clubs in Europe.
That's pretty much it. Some years ago, German clubs could compensate the financial disadvantage through superior tactics and self-produced talents. Dortmund was the prime example. But other leagues have made their homework tactically and also discovered Germany as a talent factory.
And they are obsessed with pressing nowadays. Basically, most coaches are thinking of football like Mourinho does. A very destructive and reactive approach. You get the feeling that they prefer to work out how they stop the opponent instead of trying to figure out how to solve their pressing. Guardiola is the exact opposite und Tuchel is, too. That's why he is regarded so highly over here. I'd say the only managers who currently have a similar approach apart from Heynckes are Nagelsmann and Herrlich. Favre was like that, too.
Its awful, really. Hate to say it but I have not much joy in watching Bundesliga at the moment. You see better football even when two Spanish relegation sides play. At least they want to play short passes and not hoof the ball in order to avoid possession losses in the midfield.
Watching Bundesiga this season most sides still try to play it out of the back.
The home of the World Champions and their coaching is garbage?
This past week or two of football has been absolutely wild. So many comebacks and plenty of drama.
Can make sense in that the emerging generation would fall short compare to the last (coached and developed by older generation of coaches). Let's wait and see how Germany NT does in WC, I guess
It is. Doesn't matter if you take Stöger, Dardai, Kovac, Tedesco, even Roger Schmidt or whoever. All the great managerial stoeies of succeeding with inferior teams were achieved through very destructive and reactive football and were demystified shortly after.
It takes you to a top 5 or top 7 if you are lucky but it is no sustainable way. You need to be able to create in order to win consistently in international tournaments.
Does it matter ? They have 2 or 3 good coaches who everyone know (Like Low, Heynckes and Tuchel). The rest are garbage. It's like saying Portuguese coaching is great since they're Euro champions while in fact there's only about 2 known good Portuguese managers available.
I agree with your first post and first paragraph in this one, I don't find the Bundesliga interesting anymore but to limit it down to just coaches is a bit unfair. Firstly, I like fast-paced high-intensity football, and it was one of the reasons why watching your league was fun, but those teams could not only press (with the exception of Schmidt's Leverkusen who actively tried to cede possession) but played decent football when they had to, which I think is more to do with the quality of players they had at the time. It seems more likely that that boom in production of technically proficient german youngsters is drying up, and the nearly stale maniac pressing suffers as a result of lack of quality in possession, and clubs cant compensate by buying better players from other leagues (that is not Austria).
I saw the Leipzig vs Dortmund game a few weeks back and it was just painful, both sides didn't want to play football, the midfield was crowded and tactical fouls in the disguise of pressing. It's almost like all the managers now have the same approach and there's nobody brave enough (besides Bayern) to actually try to play with the ball.
Which is why I don't rate Hasenhüttl and his Leipzig team, with the exception of Forsberg, they are all shocking on the ball, Keita especially is criminal in possession considering he's touted to be the messiah of Liverpool's midfield.
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No, there are 2 good Portuguese managers known when they work abroad, if we take Mourinho out of the equation, I would say Paulo Fonseca or Leonardo Jardim are good prospects, a tier bellow we have Nuno Espirito Santo, Jorge Jesus, Sergio Conceição or others, unless you are trying to say to me in Portugal there is only Mourinho, wich is false.
Even from Germany I would say Marco Rose is very interesting, and they have others, its false they are garbage.
In Italy you have a full list to choose, Argentina also interesting nation to watch regarding that, I even think portuguese managers are more used to work under low budgets than the French or British, unless your name is José Mourinho in 2018, where if you don't win just throw more millions to solve the puzzle.
Oh and 2016 has nothing to do with Portuguese managers, Santos doesn't manage a club since 2010, out of question.
I was actually including Jardim and Santos away from Mourinho but fair play, you know Portuguese managers better than me and I will believe you.
I disagree with the part about the talents drying up. You mention Roger Schmidt. Under him, we played three consecutive years in the CL for the first time in our club's history. I rated him very highly. Never saw pressing executed that brillantly and extremely and we looked much better against top sides. We even were on the edge of kicking out Atletico. But it wasn't a concept for every game. Far too demanding. But at some point, he completely refused to adjust his style and bring on more productive aspects. That was his demise. And it is not like he missed the players. He had Brandt and Havertz who are technically absolutely brillant. I'd say they are as good as anyone of the previous generation on the ball, probably even better. Just watch compilations of them (aren't so many around, unfortunately) but they are very impresive. Technically even better than Sane although they miss his pace, of course.
And there are much more talents who are very good on the ball. Exemplarily Dahoud and obviously Weigl at Dortmund. Especially the former has all the talent in the world and could become as good as Gündogan or Kroos. Then there is Max Meyer, Fiete Arp, Kimmich and so on - it is really amazing. Even Keita you mentioned is still a brillant technician but he lacks the decision making because Leipzig is always just directly playing towards the opponent's goal. He would need a coach that teaches him how to play intelligent, keep possession and use his abilities at the right moments.
I still think it has to do with the coaches. Don't underestimate how many influential managers left the Bundesliga in the last years. Tuchel, Favre, Klopp, Guardiola, even Schmidt - they were responsible for the most impressive sides. And the ones who remained or followed are very one dimensional and focused on pressing. Hasenhüttl, Tedesco, Kovac, Dardai, Stöger, ...
Hey, Manuel José is retired
I will just have to agree with most of your points since you watch more BL games than I probably could. I still think a lot of those players you mentioned are either too young ( e.g Havertz, who I think can become a wonderful player), haven't kicked on for various reasons (Dahoud and Weigl), or just plain not as good as hyped up to be (Brandt). But you are right, there's a dearth of good coaches in the league, and the knock-on effect is what is currently a very bad level of competition for the BL teams not named Bayern in Europe.
Man, I miss Favre's Monchengladbach and Schmidt's Lever, you could be sure they'd turn up to any game if only to lose unluckily in the end but try they will.
Hey, Manuel José is retired
Oh.
His birthday was few days ago and we were celebrating it.
I literally adored this man. At some point I was criticizing him a lot but I was shocked when he announced his leaving that I regret any criticism I said for him. I was treating him as he will be present forever anyway.
He wasn't just a normal manager passing a point of his career in Egypt. He evolved Egyptian football from the base and introduced new concepts about offensive football and 3-5-2 that were never present before him. He has a big role in the success Egypt achieved in CAN 2006-2010. The NT was literally All All players with some additions.
The biggest issue this season for German clubs in Europe was that a lot of them were in Europe for the first time so they lacked the experience the other teams had of playing in this competition and also how to manage their teams. Klopp may be regarded as a great/good coach but he came last in his first two European seasons (Europa League 2010/11 and UCL 2011/12), so it took him 2 seasons to get a grip of how to play in Europe, same with Pochettino who also failed in his first seasons for Spurs in the UCL.
Hassenhutl and Nangeslman were coaching in this competition for the first time and with very inexperienced teams at this season. RB Leipzeg's starting line-up against Marseille had Konate (18), Upamecano (19), Augustin (20), Klostermann (21), so it was a very young side; though that is what you will generally get with German teams. Nothing can excuse the pathetic performance of Dortmund obviously though, they just had a completely terrible season of poor coaching choices to players forcing them to be sold etc.
Hopefully next season will be different with the more regular European teams getting back into the top 4, Leverkusen (beat RB Leipzeg 4-1 away from home on Monday) and Schalke look to be in the UCL places with Bayern and Dortmund so you'l have more experience there (though ironically Leverkusen and Schalke are coached by inexperienced managers).
I can not see Schalke doing much next season in Europe they really do not have top talent anyway plus they are losing Goretzka and possibly Max Meyer. Dortmund should be back in the QFs if they hire the right coach. Leverkusen should be a tough out if they keep Havertz, Bailey and Brandt. Frankfurt will probably be terrible in Europa they lack real top level talent. RBL is losing Keita and possibly Forsberg and Werner but, they have a great scouting system so I think they will make another decent run in the Europa League.
At the current state, I think Salzburg can reach the finals when they draw any team except for ATM. They are currently playing great football. BVB lost to them in Signal Iduna Park.
Also Rose knows exactly how to use his team.
Salzburg is a small Barca copy with a youth system playing the same style of football from the youngest age, U20 players playing regular football in austrias 2nd league, winning the youth league last year and Salzburg currently doesn't have any competition in their league either. So they can fully focus on the EL
Also Rose knows exactly how to use his team.
Salzburg is a small Barca copy with a youth system playing the same style of football from the youngest age, U20 players playing regular football in austrias 2nd league, winning the youth league last year and Salzburg currently doesn't have any competition in their league either. So they can fully focus on the EL
They impressed me quite a bit against Lazio, even in Rome when they lost 4-2 they played some nice football. Obviously Lazio self-destructed tonight, but Salzburg is a really quality team.
The big day has come. C'mon Arsenal!
Thauvin gets the opener for Marseille. Payet with a good ball in from a freekick.
Marseille two up. Njie.
Had them down as winners in the final. Hope I'm right.