Whats Ingerlunds chances then? Is there a boom bust cycle graph for the english national team?
The England Boom Bust Cycle begins
- Thread starter Ramshock
- Start date
If you can't dream of a good tournament that comes once every 4 years, then you really shouldn't be a football fan. I'm really not sure why anything other than relentless pessimism from England fans is mocked. Not a single person is predicting world cup glory, but no doubt it'll be made out that all England fans are predicting England to walk the world cup.
I think we'll beat Ireland 1-0 in the final
Watched tonight's game in my local, with many die-hard Englishmen. The consensus was that we'd done alright to qualify and we had a small chance, given Greece won a thing.
I'd go along with that. We aren't one of the better sides but we're one of the second tier group who, with a lot of luck and some failures from the best, could find themselves unlikely winners.
I'd go along with that. We aren't one of the better sides but we're one of the second tier group who, with a lot of luck and some failures from the best, could find themselves unlikely winners.
Well at least England seem to be entertaining to watch now. It's the best we could hope for.
You'll lose in the final to Bosnia 
In all seriousness though both of us will probably make it past the group stage depending on the draw, and then from then on anything can happen. Quarter finals at most though I think.
In all seriousness though both of us will probably make it past the group stage depending on the draw, and then from then on anything can happen. Quarter finals at most though I think.
I like the team he started with tonight. It just needs to be a bit stronger on the right wing and England actually look a decent side who are capable of playing football. Welbeck and Sturridge are such a massive improvement in terms of England's attacking play, even the biggest fecktard of a manager would surely concede to starting them both instead of a target man from now on.
The problem is by the time the world cup comes around, Lampard will be back in midfield, Cole will be back at left back, and Walcott will be back on the wing. All of which will help inject a significant level of shiteness back into the team, which should help ensure the standard dire showing at the actual tournament, which will then be blamed almost entirely on either Rooney or Jack Wilshere.
The problem is by the time the world cup comes around, Lampard will be back in midfield, Cole will be back at left back, and Walcott will be back on the wing. All of which will help inject a significant level of shiteness back into the team, which should help ensure the standard dire showing at the actual tournament, which will then be blamed almost entirely on either Rooney or Jack Wilshere.
Most fans have got past the massively overrating England problem. However, a whole host of similar ones have replaced it in the shitty sports media and those who read it. Chiefly:
- Not paying attention to who we're playing. A 4-1 win after a poor performance against a weak team like Montenegro gets loads of undue praise. The fact that our last two games against Brazil ended in a win (in which we more than matched them football-wise) and a draw - with them playing a proper team and going for it both times - gets little attention. After all, what good is a draw, eh? A related issue is not paying attention to the performance. There's thrashing San Marino because they're shit, and thrashing San Marino because they're shit and because you played dazzlingly entertaining, flair-filled attacking football.
- The 'success at a tournament' binary. It's always 'England can't win the world cup because we're shit!' No, we can't win the world cup because we're not one of the top teams in the world. That's not the same as being shit. If we go there and get to the quarters, that would be a pleasing return for a team of our quality. Less would be disappointing, and more would be an excellent achievement. It's a fecking gradient, SunMirrorExpressStarWankers. You're supposed to try and do a bit better at each tournament, not come home every time saying 'we didn't win it, we must be shit, back to the drawing board!'
- Overrating England's problems because the manager plays conservatively. We've had Capello then Hodgson. Two managers who have so bought into the splashback after the 'Golden Generation' fans finally realised that they weren't so golden, that they've often managed as if England are a far worse team than they are. Starting Milner, Parker, Young et al against awful sides, expressing delight with wins scraped out of shit performances against the likes of Montenegro and Kazakhstan - it's probably no wonder a lot of fans now think that we have no technically capable players, no promising young players and are a much, much worse team than we actually have the potential to be. A side like this -
- Not paying attention to who we're playing. A 4-1 win after a poor performance against a weak team like Montenegro gets loads of undue praise. The fact that our last two games against Brazil ended in a win (in which we more than matched them football-wise) and a draw - with them playing a proper team and going for it both times - gets little attention. After all, what good is a draw, eh? A related issue is not paying attention to the performance. There's thrashing San Marino because they're shit, and thrashing San Marino because they're shit and because you played dazzlingly entertaining, flair-filled attacking football.
- The 'success at a tournament' binary. It's always 'England can't win the world cup because we're shit!' No, we can't win the world cup because we're not one of the top teams in the world. That's not the same as being shit. If we go there and get to the quarters, that would be a pleasing return for a team of our quality. Less would be disappointing, and more would be an excellent achievement. It's a fecking gradient, SunMirrorExpressStarWankers. You're supposed to try and do a bit better at each tournament, not come home every time saying 'we didn't win it, we must be shit, back to the drawing board!'
- Overrating England's problems because the manager plays conservatively. We've had Capello then Hodgson. Two managers who have so bought into the splashback after the 'Golden Generation' fans finally realised that they weren't so golden, that they've often managed as if England are a far worse team than they are. Starting Milner, Parker, Young et al against awful sides, expressing delight with wins scraped out of shit performances against the likes of Montenegro and Kazakhstan - it's probably no wonder a lot of fans now think that we have no technically capable players, no promising young players and are a much, much worse team than we actually have the potential to be. A side like this -
Hart
Walker Cahill Jones Baines
Carrick Wilshere
Townsend Rooney Welbeck
Sturridge
is capable of playing good football, giving a good game to most teams, and achieving modest success at a tournament. Remember (second bullet point), that doesn't mean we have to be able to beat Spain, Germany, or Brazil. Obviously they are much better than us. But just because Hodgson might end up having a panic attack and playing Milner, Gerrard and Lampard as a midfield three against South Sudan doesn't mean that the England team isn't potentially a fairly good one.
Advance from the group with 5/6 points, the rest depends whether we draw a good team or not from then on. It's still pretty obvious that we don't have any idea what our best side is let alone a tactical plan and strategy that suits us.
We'll win the group, but go out in the next round when Rooney gets sent off after kicking someone in the balls as he scores a penalty with his hand against Argentina (which is then disallowed for offside).
I don't think any of you expect you to win the world cup, and you won't. You're in the second or third group, in terms of quality.
With the players you lot have you should be making the quarter final at least though, anything less you should consider a failure.
G'luck anyway.
With the players you lot have you should be making the quarter final at least though, anything less you should consider a failure.
G'luck anyway.
What is odd is that within the past two games barely anyone would expect Townsend to be playing but he is now one of the first players on the team sheet.
The cynical in-fighting and moaning from the fans and the comments on media pieces has lead me to believe they themselves don't think they even stand a chance at getting near the final. Which is odd - they have a pretty decent team and certainly have the individual players that can win games. If everyone took a step back and let them just get on with the tournament then they might have pressure off and really have a blinder.
It will be interesting though.
As long as we play attacking football, no Walcott/Milner/Lamps/Cashley and hopefully Hart'll feck off by then, we'll be good to watch and hopefully go out in the quarters. I just want some entertainment, nothing more.. nothing less.
England should go with the attitude of concentrating of getting to the next round. Then they will have a chance of doing well. This dreaming of the final rubbish before getting to one has proven a bad idea for most world cup bound teams.
Also i'm hoping talents like Morisson and Barkley make the final squad and Wishere finaly becomes a main stay of that midfield.
I'll say what I said for the last tournament - they should take a young squad and give them the experience of tournament football. The likes of Gerrard, Cole and Lampard have had their chances and done nothing - time to give someone else a go in the hope that in the next Euro's or World Cup we have more of a chance.
What will happen is that Roy will be as safe and cautious as usual. We'll draw a couple of games in the group and be lucky to get to the next round, and then we'll get outplayed by the first decent team we come up against.
What will happen is that Roy will be as safe and cautious as usual. We'll draw a couple of games in the group and be lucky to get to the next round, and then we'll get outplayed by the first decent team we come up against.
Great post from Brightonian btw.
We can't win can we?
We're getting moaned at for supposedly overrating the team and then moaned at for not getting behind them and believing we can win it. I've come to the conclusion people just hate England because English fans have been reasonable for quite some time now.
It's time to ease up on the party cones if you think some of the cynicism hasn't been 'over the top' of late. Even on the caf.
Providing our key players are actually fit going into the tournament then I don't see any reason we shouldn't be able to give a good account of ourselves and make the last 8. With a bit of luck, maybe even the Semis.
We can't win can we?
We're getting moaned at for supposedly overrating the team and then moaned at for not getting behind them and believing we can win it. I've come to the conclusion people just hate England because English fans have been reasonable for quite some time now.
Who hates the English anymore though? You were hated for years rightfully because a large section of your fan base were hoods intent on ruining things whereever they went. There's also historical issues to do with the fact you were at war with most of the world at some point in history, but people don't really hate England or the English in big numbers anymore. You have a bit of a chip on your shoulders about something that's not really there. Most people in Ireland for example will be much happier for England to qualify because we support teams in your country.
That said, I do get a bit pissy about the use/abuse of Scholes and Carrick by England for years. That's more to do with supporting United players than any innate dislike of England.
Now, Wales on the other hand.....cnuts!
I think you are forgetting the small fact that it is Roy Hodgson in charge of the team.
I'm not sure how common this is in Ireland (I don't know many Irish, excluding those of this forum) but there's no shortage of people I know from Scotland and Wales who watch England games and passionately support England's opposition.
It's always fun to watch the Brit media go in a meltdown after an English loss.
You have to remember that the majority of that isn't anything to do with football. It's all nationalistic stuff, and nothing to do with how England fans, footballers or media behave.
That may be true but it's not what they tell me. Which is they want to see England lose because they think England fans are arrogant and believe their side is far better than it is.
No doubt for years there was a certain arrogance with English fans and the media hype leading up to and the consequent blame circus after any majors is a site to behold. That though nowadays is all a smoke screen for the last bastion of pure jingoistic bullshit, international football.
Nowadays England fans are more likely to be really touchy about anyone having a go at them or hoping they lose than actually be cocky themselves about winning. You were in the noobs I assume last year for the euros, but some of the chat in those threads was fecking retarded. English fans getting all uppity and actually making up strawmen that didn't exist in an effort to feel put upon.
Well you can console yourself that we are at the big dance and they are not. I am just pleased we have got there anything else will be a big bonus. It is keeping the media in check that will be the problem.
I struggle to remember what I had for breakfast, most days. I can't for the life of me remember whether there was much defensiveness or England hating going on, back then, to be honest.
It's a shame they aren't there. More fun when they are. I also think it gives it more of a friendly rivalry... "Ha! You lost on penalties to Portugal" "Well, your lot couldn't even beat Bulgaria" has less of a bitter/arrogant feel to it than "Ha! you lost on penalties to Portugal" "Well your lot didn't even qualify".
And, yeah, I'm very relieved we qualified and look forward to losing on penalties to Portugal.
I was at the England game last night and I have to say I was essentially supporting Poland. It's not so much that I think England fans overrate their teams, it's just the chasm of difference in opinion when England win/lose is something I don't really see from club supporters and I find it entertaining to watch the process in action. I've no doubt the media in Brazil or countless other major nations operate in the same way when it comes to their national team, it just so happens that I only witness it happening to England...
RTE should lend them their pundits for the friendlies leading up to the world cup. It would certainly dampen expectations.
I supported Poland, and pretty much always root for the other team. Most of that is down to what Brwned said above, but there's other things that turned me away from the national team/international football in general a long time ago.
But yeah, England have absolutely no chance of winning it at all.
But yeah, England have absolutely no chance of winning it at all.
I feel the edit was important there Hectic.
I edited that post at least 9 times. I edited it even after you posted that.
They had pretty good team out there yesterday, but Roy need to replace Lampard and Gerrard with Carrick and Wilshire to get anything from Brazil 14. The team is so much more dynamic With Carrick in midfield. I also think Walcott will replace Welbeck before then.
I feel that team might reach a semi final and do better than for a long time, but not win anything.
I feel that team might reach a semi final and do better than for a long time, but not win anything.
No chance of the semi's, the players simply arent good enough. Too many journeymen in the squad relative to the quality of players the big nations have.
Classic mistake thats been made by England supporters for years, blame the manager when its the simple fact the players are simply not of the quality that the big nations have. Put a Skoda engine in a Ferrari chassis and it will only go as fast as a Skoda.