"The dressing room is just a disaster"

Maciej said:
I''ve never actually liked Lingard, but I'm surprised how most of you criticise him for talking to Scholes and not Scholes for saying he got this from Lingard on TV! :confused:
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It's more that Lingard is currently employed by the club, and has a direct obligation to the club, including the coaching staff, and team mates.

Scholes has left the club,and while we fans might still love him, and he might have certain connections with the club, he isn't bound by any duty of confidence to Manchester United. If anything he has more of a duty to whoever he is working for currently, who happen to be a media organisation.

Lingard may think Scholes had some form of obligation to him not to reveal the information, but that still doesn't constitute Scholes having an obligation to Manchester United not to say anything.That's why it would be a fallacy to think the leak is from Scholes. The leak originated with Lingard, it was magnified by Scholes.

Of course I might tell my partner about stuff at work (for the sake of this lets say she had worked for my employer a few years earlier and was held in high regard), and I do that because I can trust her not to tell anyone, but if I was wrong about that, and she said something to one of her friends and it got back to my employer then the responsibility would be entirely mine. I might feel betrayed by my partner, but she didn't have a duty to my employer.

Not to say that as a fan I can't be annoyed at Scholes.

The good thing is that surely this isn't exactly news. It's irritating, but it's only some degree of confirmation on what everyone already knows. It could have been a throwaway comment, or it could have been intended to be leaked but the club aren't going to do anything about it. Best to just get to the end of the season and focus on fixing things so things are changed by the time next season starts.
 
Random Task said:
A lot of people Lingard here but isn't Scholes the one in the wrong?
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On the one side of it Lingard mouthing off to people in the media isn't a great look, but outing him like that is really terrible. It's going to make Lingard's potential new employers a lot more wary about him I'd imagine, and it'll probably make future teammates wary too.

I'd also imagine no player is going to say anything about the team to Scholes ever again.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Exactly. Love the player but as a pundit he’s down there with Trevor Sinclair and Danny Murphy as one of the worst ever. Class of 92 in the media really are a bane on United.
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Actually I think he’s way worse than Danny Murphy.

Paul Scholes. Oh dear. There’s almost an inverse relationship between former players’ abilities back in the day and their present intelligence level…
 
el3mel said:
So out of all the managers that managed us post Fergie, the one whom he felt was the man for the job is only ex legend, despite any awful results or performance that he was criticizing the other managers for, he thought Ole should be given time when these happened under him, the only manager whom he thought that about him is the only one who's an ex-teammate and ex-legend. Weird coincidence.

Scholes found it easier to slaughter the foreign managers who have no previous connection with the club when shit results happened. He'll jump the gun and slaughter them immediately. He was too shy to do the same with someone who was his teammate previously. There's nothing more to it. Anyone who followed his quotes ever since LVG era till now will find the stark difference in his quotes.

He's free to say his opinions. We're free to call him an awful pundit as well.
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Fair enough I suppose. You do you mate.
 
@BluesJr said it like it is, ex players pundits are not helping one bit, exactly the opposite they're just throwing even more shit. I dont think they should act like all is good cause it isnt and that wouldnt help either but what when they do stuff like this it creates even more problems.
 
The players are treating Ralf like a substitute teacher.

They're a disgrace. The board won't do what's needed and sell 12 players.
 
Real Name said:
@BluesJr said it like it is, ex players pundits are not helping one bit, exactly the opposite they're just throwing even more shit. I dont think they should act like all is good cause it isnt and that wouldnt help either but what when they do stuff like this it creates even more problems.
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There are 5 games left and nothing left to play for. There's no downside.

Scholes comment will help with the clearout by making it public what the problem in the dressing room is and airing the dirty laundry of the players who are disrespecting the shirt.

It's not throwing shit. It's smoothing the path for EtH's rebuild.
 
Dante said:
When Rangnick calls out the dressing room atmosphere, he's a hero.

When Lingard/Scholes do it, they're villains.
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They were not villain because they say that dressing room is a toxic but more to do with them being a leaker which we had no idea who it is.
 
Dante said:
When Rangnick calls out the dressing room atmosphere, he's a hero.

When Lingard/Scholes do it, they're villains.
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Because none of them have the authority to steer the direction of the club and whether or not Scholes said it wont change a thing. One is about to leave soon and the other is not currently employed by United. Is it acceptable when an ex employee talks publically about how bad the previous workplace was that it made it to TV? I dont think so. It is clear Scholes has never liked Ralf and its understandable he tries to behave in such a way. The good news is we have signed a new manager that will demand changes in the club whether he likes it or not. Old man shouts at cloud.
 
tenpoless said:
Because none of them have the authority to steer the direction of the club. One is about to leave soon and the other is not currently employed by United. Is it acceptable when an ex employee talks publically about how bad the previous workplace was that it made it to TV? I dont think so.
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But they're both right to do so.

United shouldn't have veil of silence around our shortcomings. This isn't Putin's Russia. If it was about protecting innocent teammates from predatory media, that's different. This, however, is about calling out the bad eggs in order to protect the club as whole.

Both Lingard and Rangnick ought to be lauded. The only people who should be calling them rats and snitches are the ones who want to maintain the status quo.

Keeping secrets about the disastrous dressing room only stifles progress by otherwise making it difficult to identify what's causing our problems. Whereas admitting it in public makes it harder for the culprits to hide behind their PR.

Even so, this is hardly revelatory news. Everyone can see it. All that's changed is that they can no longer lie about it to protect their reputations. Instead, they might actually have to start giving a shit. Scholes drawing back the curtain has given them nowhere to hide. Good on him.
 
DavelinaJolie said:
On the one side of it Lingard mouthing off to people in the media isn't a great look, but outing him like that is really terrible. It's going to make Lingard's potential new employers a lot more wary about him I'd imagine, and it'll probably make future teammates wary too.

I'd also imagine no player is going to say anything about the team to Scholes ever again.
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I’d like to think they’d be wary as it is, but this is football. His list of banter is endless: ludicrous clothing range, childish Snapchats on the team bus, recording his mate shagging a cushion in a hotel, taking photographs with raging anti-semites on a mid season holiday to Dubai and, don’t forget, BEANS! BEANS! BEANS!

It’s his own fault. I’m sure he’ll enjoy pocketing the cash at Newcastle next year, free to carry on like the dickhead he is. I wouldn’t worry about him, really.
 
Does we even get anything good from the academy these days? Greenwood had basically his career, Pogba and JBeanz mentality is up to the crappers while McT has the football brains (and talent) of a donkey while Madre Rashfordesa seem too concerned about feeding the world to actually be bothered on what happens on the pitch. Things aren't that great with former players either. Fletcher keeps getting promoted every few weeks despite the club is doing shit and he's got little to show for his promotion, Gaz is a know it all despite being a disaster at Valencia, Giggs can't keep it in his pants while Phil is making a fool of himself in the MLS.

I think that this club need a rough reset. We should ring fence the club from these people, we should bring in top people from outside the club who had PROVEN themselves in their job and we should bring back the discipline, professionalism and meritocracy we had when the club was in its prime.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't know what kind of relationship Lingard and Scholes have but if it's a close one then only Scholes is in the wrong. You don't go around repeating things that are said in confidence and also name your source. :lol:
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Maybe he's biting his toenails as well.
 
Get lost Lingard. Same as all those more interested in perfecting their dance moves and goal celebrations as opposed to perfecting football skills.
 
devilish said:
Does we even get anything good from the academy these days? Greenwood had basically his career, Pogba and JBeanz mentality is up to the crappers while McT has the football brains (and talent) of a donkey while Madre Rashfordesa seem too concerned about feeding the world to actually be bothered on what happens on the pitch. Things aren't that great with former players either. Fletcher keeps getting promoted every few weeks despite the club is doing shit and he's got little to show for his promotion, Gaz is a know it all despite being a disaster at Valencia, Giggs can't keep it in his pants while Phil is making a fool of himself in the MLS.

I think that this club need a rough reset. We should ring fence the club from these people, we should bring in top people from outside the club who had PROVEN themselves in their job and we should bring back the discipline, professionalism and meritocracy we had when the club was in its prime.
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Be careful sir, some posters are very sensitive when you make fun of players names despite them being called cnut and twat (which is bang out of order) in their own threads. No fun allowed.
 
Majima said:
Who would that be? I would ask where was this energy for Ole? He done a wonderful job at Cardiff didn't he?

Rangnick even if he hadn't managed for 10 years, was still 10x the manager. He simply hasn't been given a fair chance from the start if we're being honest.
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Exactly, and Lingard has been speaking to as many people as possible about how shit things are to justify himself leaving the club on a free
 
CassiusClaymore said:
You suggesting an ex footballer wouldn't be thick enough to reveal the club leak is probably not the watertight argument you think it is.
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"Watertight argument". We're talking about prior leaks none of us are privy to. Anyone who thinks that phrase is applicable to a topic this speculative is looking at this upside down. There's no such thing as a watertight argument when talking hypotheticals and assumptions. I don't believe Scholes is the outlet. It's not meant to be watertight, like everything else in the thread it's meant to be a belief on the basis of feck all. If we're trying to make watertight accusations the burden to prove Scholes is the leaker wouldn't even lie on my part here, that would lie on those asserting he is the leaker's outlet. You can't just drop an accusation and expect everyone to buy in.
 
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Dante said:
part I
But they're both right to do so.

United shouldn't have veil of silence around our shortcomings. This isn't Putin's Russia. If it was about protecting innocent teammates from predatory media, that's different. This, however, is about calling out the bad eggs in order to protect the club as whole.

Both Lingard and Rangnick ought to be lauded. The only people who should be calling them rats and snitches are the ones who want to maintain the status quo.

Keeping secrets about the disastrous dressing room only stifles progress by otherwise making it difficult to identify what's causing our problems. Whereas admitting it in public makes it harder for the culprits to hide behind their PR.

Even so, this is hardly revelatory news. Everyone can see it. All that's changed is that they can no longer lie about it to protect their reputations. Instead, they might actually have to start giving a shit. Scholes drawing back the curtain has given them nowhere to hide. Good on him.
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For Ralf he clearly is being honest with the press for the betterment of the club. Not suggesting players should not break ranks but Lingard, sheesh. Doesn't get a move last summer or in the Jan transfer window. Posts the occasional Cryptic Insta post. Very rarely puts any meaningful shift in.

Highly dubious of Lingards motivation here and really don't think I would laud him for much of any positive contribution towards United currently
 
Reading the story, it barely holds up the "headline". The quote at the end does not say what the headline says. It's like making chicken stew without.... the chicken
 
crossy1686 said:
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No surprise. We don't have access to the dressing room but it's obvious just by reading the body language of players and watching how they behave on social media that Rangnicks comments are on the mark. To think we've had fans who have defended and applauded this lot for so long. Sad
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Scholes was a fantastic player who gave his entire career to this club without causing any fuss or controversy. He doesn't deserve to be grouped with a horrible little scrote like Lingard
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Maybe he shouldn't directly quote him when stirring shit then? :nervous:
 
AndySmith1990 said:
No surprise. We don't have access to the dressing room but it's obvious just by reading the body language of players and watching how they behave on social media that Rangnicks comments are on the mark. To think we've had fans who have defended and applauded this lot for so long. Sad
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Top Reds who think you can never complain and say anything wrong.

I quite like the fact that there any many fans who are with Rangnick on this, but still, it's such a shame that we didn't let Jose do it when he was right. I always wanted Jose to become United manager for years...
 
Oldyella said:
Maybe he shouldn't directly quote him when stirring shit then? :nervous:
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Personally I don't consider Scholes publicly sharing that comment to be as bad as Lingard and his chums creating that toxic dressing room environment in the first place. Scholes is thick, but he at least cares about the club, which is more than can be said for Lingard
 
Lingard blaming others for the dressing room without realising he’s actively contributing to that atmosphere just smacks of the levels of entitlement we have at player level. Here’s an idea lads, if things are shit and no one’s getting along, why don’t you all just stop being cnuts instead of blaming the manager and the staff?
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Exactly. Love the player but as a pundit he’s down there with Trevor Sinclair and Danny Murphy as one of the worst ever. Class of 92 in the media really are a bane on United.
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I keep saying class of 92 are the worst pundits and very toxic for the club.
 
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