The Doubles Draft - SF: Invictus/Theon vs Downcast

Who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
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vs

...................................... TEAM INVICTUS ................................................................................... TEAM DOWNCAST ......................................

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TEAM INVICTUS

FORMATION: WONKY 4-3-2-1

Nothing too elaborate in the tactics for this match either - we plan on playing a balanced game and will look to keep it tight and congested in the central areas whilst exploiting our advantage out wide.

1. PELÉ + GARRINCHA




An obvious point of emphasis given their exceptional historical success and personnel chemistry - and status as the two greatest players Brazil has ever produced:

South America - Player of the Century
1."Pelé" (Brazil) 220
4. Garrincha (Brazil) 142


The duo boasts an incredible and unmatched record as co-starters for Brazil: The national team has never lost a match with Garrincha and Pelé in the same team. There were 40 matches with 36 wins and four draws. Together, they scored 55 goals: Pelé, 44, and Garrincha, 11.

In terms of Pelé, his role here is in our view his peak one - the young, lightening quick and prolific striker who hit over a goal a game for Santos whilst beating the very best Europe and International football had to offer. He's the ideal point of attack for the team - a supreme dribbler with the technical ability to spearhead the attack with movement, intelligence, physicality and finishing ability.

As far as Garrincha goes, he is going to reprise his role as the winger who posed all sorts of troubles for opposition fullbacks, supplied the creative pipeline with an endless of amount goal-scoring opportunities (apart from scoring himself), and was elected to the World Team of the Century as he right sided attacker:

Yashin
Carlos Alberto Beckenbauer Moore Nilton
Platini di Stéfano Cruyff
Garrincha Pelé Maradona


2. TWO VS ONE SITUATIONS AND ADVANTAGE ON THE FLANKS

As in the previous game we feel that the opposition fullbacks are ultimately going to be outnumbered and outstretched against Garrincha/Brehme and Best/Facchetti - arguably the most rounded flanks you can build in an all-time draft.

Particularly if the opposition plays a narrow diamond/5-3-2 formation, or the Zona Mista where Cabrini is up against Garrincha and Brehme - there is going to be far too much space out wide and too much quality in the winger-wingback combination for the opposition to deal with defensively.

Containing the greatest and second greatest winger ever (in whatever order you'd like), arguably the greatest fullback ever in Facchetti, and arguably the most versatile fullback in Brehme - this is ultimately a nigh impossible task for just two players (for the most part, even with part-time help from others).

3. DI STÉFANO'S ALL-ENCOMPASSING INFLUENCE

The opposition might feature a numerical advantage in midfield if they go with a diamond, but even with four midfielders we don't see this translating into an advantageous position - primarily due to the presence of the most dominant midfielder of all time:

“Alfredo Di Stéfano was simultaneously, the anchor in defence, the playmaker in midfield, and the most dangerous marksman in attack. He was the entire orchestra.” — Helenio Herrera

“Who is this man? He takes the ball from the goalkeeper; he tells the full-backs what to do; wherever he is on the field he is in position to take the ball; you can see his influence on everything that is happening… I had never seen such a complete footballer.” — Sir Bobby Charlton

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307 goals in 396 games for Real Madrid.
56 goals in the European Cup (a record that stood for about half a century until Raúl broke it).
5 Pichichi titles for highest scorer in La Liga through 6 seasons - 1954 to 1959.

Di Stéfano will be in his element here as the omnipresent midfield general - collecting the ball from deep and instigating attacks, feeding Garrincha and Best and Pelé, providing surging runs through the middle. A fantastic technical player and wonderful passer who allied ferocious determination and field coverage, with winning mentality and leadership. Behind him is is the wonderful platform of Redondo and Varela.

The former is a great match for The Don's technique, given his stature as the best Volante in South American football with Falcão. And the man completing the imperious trio is one of the most intimidating defensive midfielders of all time, and one of the most vaunted leaders in football history - who's tasked with keeping tabs on Maradona.


The Uruguayan party weren’t just wary. They were petrified.

On the morning of the 1950 World Cup deciding match against Brazil, members of the country’s FA apparently told the squad “four is acceptable”.

The Brazilians had, after all, put seven past Sweden and six past Spain in their last two games. And there was high expectation that the hosts would do the same to Uruguay. That day’s Rio papers had printed a photo of the side with the headline “Today, Brazil wins the World Cup”.

But, in the highly intimidating surroundings of a packed Maracana, Varela’s influence went beyond mere instruction and inspiration. There’s arguably never been a single player that has so dominated a World Cup final. Varela had a huge psychological effect on his team.

Certainly, Varela was winning the battle. As Brian Glanville wrote “it was now Varela who bestrode the field, nonchalant and indomitable, masterfully breaking up and launching attacks, the old-school centre-half par excellence.”

In our view, it is perfectly balanced and stylistically gets the most out of the collective talent on show.


4. DEFENSIVE FORTRESS LED BY A HOST OF GREAT FIELD GENERALS

The backline is stacked with quality and very difficult to improve upon - Facchetti and Baresi in particular have legitimate claims to being the best fullback and the best centre back of all time.

On the right, Andreas Brehme is that same caliber and remains one of only five fullbacks in history to be finish in the top three of the Ballon d'Or - as well as winning Player of the Year in a peak Serie A league featuring the likes of Maldini, Baresi, Rijkaard, Van Basten and co.

Brehme's role here should not be underestimated - he's absolutely capable of dominating an entire flank on his own and has a history of performing on the biggest occasions. As one of the best crossers of all time we fancy him to find plenty of space out wide against Cabrini and he's as likely as anyone to grab an assist in this match.

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Rounding off the defense is the indomitable Daniel Passarella - World Cup winning Captain and widely regarded as the best central defender out of the Americas alongside Elías Figueroa. The definition of a complete footballer, Passarella was technically excellent and often players as a playmaker in possession - but he was also physically dominating, mentally intimidating and a crafty bugger to boot.

There's a fairly simple reason for starting Passarella over Nesta. We think their pure defensive skills are fairly comparable, with Nesta being slightly taller, but Passarella has that extra bit of determination, cynicism, and bloody-minded mentality to thwart the central attack. That added competitive drive can be useful in matchups like this, especially when Passarella is being asked to stay back as a defender, and is not going to contribute to the offense with his 1 in 3 record.

As a collective they've captained their teams to the World Cup, the European Championship, the European Cup - you name it, they've done it; and we can honestly say that each member of the backline was the best and most influential player for their defense in the World Cup final (1970, 1978, 1990, 1994), and not many would disagree with that assertion.

Overall, the defense is filled to the brim with technical quality, defensive ability and outstanding leadership. The opposition has some great offensive players, but it's likely to be centrally orientated and in Passarella/Baresi we think they are well placed to limit the space in that central area - particularly with Varela patrolling the area ahead of them.

At the heart of it all is a man who's widely recognized as probably the best pure defender in football history - catch a glimpse of Baresi vs Brazil in the World Cup Final:

 
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5. A CASE OF TOO MANY COOKS?

Not exactly. Di Stéfano is arguably the most intelligent team player of all time and he has free reign to run proceedings offensively here - there's no Platini or Maradona type of central hub encroaching upon his status or role in possession. Up front Pelé is being used in his direct role where he arguably hit his peak - not the '70 playmaker role, but the lightening quick 24 year old who hit 349 goals in 4 seasons for Santos, and 1.3 goals per game for Brazil.

On the flanks, George Best had an excellent work-rate whilst deferring to Charlton in possession - which adds real balance to the side. It's an up-tempo, quick style predicated on the ability of all 4 to go from stand-still to top speed in a jiffy.

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And to top it all off, two members of the offensive quartet rank among the 3 most decisive scorers in football history (via ESPN):





TEAM DOWNCAST

The Changes

Romario - suspended <-> Ronaldo

Roberto Carlos - suspended <-> Cabrini
Reuter - upgrade <-> Vogts
Ruggeri - upgrade <-> Kohler
Ferrara - upgrade <-> Bergomi

The Quotes

Downcast - 17 August 2016 - 'InvicTheon may own the wings. I own the victory'

Downcast - 18 August 2016 - 'No Joga Bonito on the wings. I'm here to destroy the heart of his team and win'

The Philosophy

The team has been built to please Captain Maradona - version Napoli - who used to play behind 2 strikers. The phenomenon Ronaldo - Inter Milan Version - & Puskas - version Hungary - & Matthaus - Inter Milan Version - also prefer a configuration with 2 CFs. The strategy is clear. My players don't need wingers to score and the idea is to dominate the central area & have a strong defensive base. Why? Because the focus is on the strategic areas and at the heart of the game. We are not


The Defensive Strategy - Given the quality of the opposing team, a system with 4 defenders would be a suicide. The idea is to offer a strong defensive block: 2 stoppers, 2 side-backs, 1 sweeper and 1 destroyer. Scirea will be the defensive leader & the fighter Matthaus will harass the elegant players like Redondo or Di Stefano.

The Offensive Strategy - On the wings, Cabrini & Vogts are known for their successful offensive contributions. Matthaus - “The Superman” - is a powerful dynamo midfielder who would support the diabolical trio. Here, Maradona - La Mano de Dios version Napoli - will support the duo Ronaldo-Puskas, 2 legendary CFs.

KEY CONSIDERATIONS

- The Ma-Pu-Ro attack is comprised of 3 top scorers (Puskas 4 times Pichichi, Maradona best top scorer of the Seria A in 1988 and Ronaldo)
- Ronaldo-Puskas-Maradona-Matthaus: so much troubles for the central defenders/midfielders
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However, Maradona-Matthaus-Ronaldo offer a high level of mobility making the offensive strategy unpredictable for the opponent
- No reliance on 1 CF or 1 playmaker.
- 30% of the goals are scored on set-pieces: I possess Maradona and Matthäus depending the distance from the goal.
- Winning spirit: 10 WC Winners part of my starting 11
- Ronaldo: bad memories for Nesta : to be explained later
- Maradona: bad memories for Baresi & co in the Calcio: to be explained later
- Matthaus was the fierce opponent of Maradona. Di Stefano has to be careful.
 
TEAM DOWNCAST

The Starting XI

Ronaldo - The Phenomenon - The greatest striker of all-time?



Ferenc Puskas - Inside-left Forward - The greatest Eastern European footballer?

"The Galloping Major" was one of the most prolific scorers ever: 662 Goals in 669 Games as a professional player. He had great striking technique and was a deadly goal finisher with his precision left-foot, maybe the greatest shooter ever. He operated his game as an inside-left and always performed a formidable ball control to the nearby penalty box area and shot by himself or assist to his teammate. Known for his professionalism, he's one of the most consistency footballers, one of the best players in the World in the highest age at 33 years old in 1960 and remained making scores until retirement at 39 year olds. He was both a prominent member and captain of the legendary Hungarian national team, known as the Mighty Magyars.

Diego Armando Maradona - Playmaking-Attacking Midfielder - One of the 2 greatest footballers of all-time



Matthaus - Box-to-Box Version Inter 88/92- The greatest post-war central midfielder of all-time?
The ultimate complete midfielder was renowned for his perceptive passing, positional sense, movement, tireless, acceleration and well-timed tackling, as well as his explosive shot. He played in 5 World Cups (more than any other outfield player, record for the most WC appearances with 25 games) and 4 Euros. The Ballon d'Or 1990 is the most capped German player with 150. The first half of his career was performed as a box-to-box midfielder. Afterwards, He moved down to play as Libero. He played in professional level for 22 seasons.
World Cup Participation : 1982, 1986, 1990, 1994, 1998 (25 Games)
1990 World Soccer Player Of The Year
1991 FIFA World Player Of The Year
European Footballer Of The Year : 1990 Gold, 1991 Silver
2 Times German Footballer Of The Year (1990, 1999)

Diego Maradona "he is the best rival I've ever had. I guess that's enough to define him", in his book Yo soy el Diego (I am the Diego)



Luis Monti - The Destroyer or 'The Double Wide'
Considered as the greatest Half-Back in the pre-war era. Monti was gotten his nickname because of his coverage on the pitch, was a rugged and ruthless player, but had good technical skills to go with his strong tackling. He played as an attacking centre half in the old-fashioned Metodo system. As such he would mark the opposing centre forward when his team were defending, but would be the main midfield playmaker when his team was on the attack. He played in two World Cup finals with Argentina and Italy. A match against Austria in World Cup 1934 was one of the best remembered games of his, Monti responsible for marking Matthias Sindelar who was one of the greatest attackers in that era, This task was a lot of success completed.
World Cup All-Star Team (1930, 1934)

Cabrini - Greatest full-back of the world during 1980s?
His technical and physical qualities made of him the most popular defender of the history of Italian football. He created many goals for his team especially scored 9 goals for Italy is the all-time record for Italian defender. One of the main players of Juventus in their glory era which was the most successful team in Italy. According to media rating, he is the best defender of Series A twice times in 1984 and 1986. Like Scirea, he was voted from www.channel4.com as a starter in Juventus all-time XI.

World Cup Participation : 1978,1982,1986 (18 Games)
1982 FIFA World Cup Champion
6 Times Italian Series A
2 Times Copa Italia, 1977 UEFA Cup
1983 European Cup Runner-Up
1984 European Cup Winners Cup
1985 Intercontinental Cup
Voted in 13th and 14th Ballon'Dor in 1978 and 1983, respectively.

Jurgen Kohler- The greatest German stopper
One of the the finest European stoppers or man’s markers ever. One of the most completed stopper with his strong, positional play and precision tacking. He was strong as if being a steel wall could mark many superstars out of their games. Kohler used to give an interview that there was no strikers who could make him trouble through his career. According to German Footballer of the year voting, He was German defender of the year in only twice times and was named in Bundesliga team of the season six times
WC Participation : 1990, 1994, 1998 (13 Games)
1992 European Championship Runner-Up + 1996 European Championship Winners,
Club Honours : 3 Times Bundesliga Champions , 1 Time Italian Series A, 1 Time Copa Italia
1993 UEFA Cup, 1997 UEFA Champion League, 1997 Intercontinental Cup
Individual Achievement : 1997 German Footballer Of The Year + 1992 European Championship Best XI
Ballon'Dor once in 1997 and finished 11th place



Bergomi - CB - Stopper able to cover Scirea or Vogts if one of them attacks
One the of the greatest markers of all-time, a roughness defender full of talent and qualities. He was best remembered as one of the best youngest player ever to play for World Cup final at only 19 year olds of ages and surprisingly marked Rummenigge lost his great performance. Bergomi was a consistency World-Class defender during the 2nd half 1980s. In 1990 World Cup, he was selected as captain for Italy. After miss the 1994 FIFA World Cup squad, he was selected to play in 1998 FIFA world cup in France in his age of 35 year olds. Bergomi tied with Facchetti to be retired number for Inter Milan.
1988 UEFA Euro Team of Tournament
Scrirea - One of top 5 greatest Sweepers of All-Time! My preferred defender
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Graceful defender of great vision and ball controlling skills and tactical ability, played the sweeper, or libero, role for most of his career, and contributed to the development of this position initiated by Franz Beckenbauer in the 1970s.
World Cup Participation : 1978, 1982, 1986 (18 Games)
1980 UEFA Euro Best Defender



Vogts - RB - the best European right-back of all-time.

“The Terrier” was the most instrumental player in a backline of Germany to success in every international tournament between 1970 -1976 especially World Cup 1974 final round which his best highlight was appeared, was able to effectively neutralizing and mark Johan Cruijff not to reach his prime level. However, He was very overshadowed by Beckenbauer whom he partly forced his greatness. He was known for his aggressive style, uncompromising, tireless and world-class tackling was not only great in defensive game as a right full-back.
World Cup Participation : 1970, 1974, 1978 (19 Games)
1972 European Championship Winner + 1976 European Championship Runner-Up
5 Times Bundesliga, 1 Time DFB-Pokal, 2 Times UEFA Cup, 1977 European Cup Runner-Up
1977 European Defender of The Year + 2 Times German Footballer Of The Year (1971, 1979) + German defender of the year 5 times
2 Times FIFA World Cup All-Star Team (1974, 1978) + Named in Bundesliga team.of the season 10 times
5th of Ballon D’or in 1975 (15th, 10th, 13th and 10th in 1971, 74, 76 and 77 respectively).

Ubaldo Fillol - GK - 70-80s - 1978 FIFA World Cup’s Best Goalkeeper - 2nd Greatest South American GK of All-Time

"The Duck” was totally voted in top five South American footballer of the year in 8 times. His best highlight is the performance in world cup 1978 which he made many brilliant saves especially final match until Argentina won their victory first world cup. Known for his exceptional fast reflexes to ever play the game plus his excellent shot-blocking and positional play. Stats: 58 Games with Argentina (20 Clean Sheets). Record all-time most penalty saves in Argentine football. Carrizo - born in 1926 - is the Greatest South-American of All-Times
 
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NEW PLAYER PROFILES

FRANCO BARESI

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Ballon d'Or: Runner-up 1989
World Player of the Century: 30th (3rd highest ranked central defender after Beckenbauer and Moore)
Italy Player of the Century: 4th (highest ranked central defender)
World Soccer Player of the Century: 19th
World Cup All-Star: 1990
Serie A Player of the Century
Serie A Footballer of the Year: 1990
FIFA World Cup winner: 1982
FIFA World Cup Third: 1990
FIFA World Cup Second: 1994
UEFA European Championship: Semifinalist 1980, 1988
European Cup winner: 1989, 1990, 1994
Serie A winner: 1979, 1988, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996
Intercontinental Cup winner: 1989, 1990

Franco Baresi is generally considered to be the greatest center-back in history of the game. One of his several feats being the role he played for Sacchi and Capello's vaunted AC Milan defensive line of Maldini, Costacurta, Tassotti, Galli and Panucci - which established a Serie A record without conceding a goal in 900 consecutive minutes. His game was predicated on text-book technique, perfect balance, intuition, courage on the pitch, combining power with elegance, and he was gifted with outstanding physical and mental attributes, such as pace, strength, tenacity, concentration and stamina, which made him fairly effective in the air despite the drawbacks of his average height. In terms of individual accolades, Baresi collected 4 Serie A Defender of the Year awards, was voted in 8th, 6th and 11th Ballon'Dor in 1988, 1993 and 1994, respectively and was voted in top ten FIFA World Player of the year in other three different years (1991 (6th), 1992 (9th), 1994 (9th)). Baresi's primary duty will be to keep tabs on Ferenc Puskás, and in our opinion - he has the perfect temperament and skillset for that job.


DANIEL PASSARELLA

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South America Player of the Century: 35
Argentina Player of the Century: 8 (highest ranked defender)
1978 FIFA World Cup Best Defender
South American Defender of The Year: 1978, 1979, 1980
Argentina Footballer of the Year: 1976
FIFA World Cup All-Star: 1978
World Soccer Greatest Footballers: 66
FIFA World Cup winner: 1978, 1986
Primera División: 1975, 1979, 1980, 1991

El Gran Capitán Passarella is considered by most to be the best central defender of South America with Chilean icon Elías Figueroa, and the best defender from Argentina - leading the team to their first World Cup title in 1978, where he was imperious, and was duly named the best defender of the tournament. Renowned for his defensive nous, leadership ability, passion, and organisational prowess on the field - he's usually regarded as one of the most commanding defenders in football. Although he was only 174cm tall, Passarella was exceptional in the air and scored an impressive amount of goals by headers from corners or free-kicks. In this match, Passarella will cut out some of this more offensive oriented traits while face Ronaldo, so we have no use for his 1 in 3 record, really. Instead, he will focus on defense, and we couldn't have asked for a more uncompromising and determined player to help repel the Brazilian's threat.


GEORGE BEST

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Ballon D'Or: 1968
Ballon D'Or 3rd: 1971
FIFA Grand Jury Player of the Century: 5th (tied with Johan Cruyff)
European Player of the Century: 11th
France Football Player of the Century: 12th
World Soccer Greatest Footballers: 8th (highest ranked winger)
PFA Team of the Century
1968 FWA Footballer Of The Year
European Hall of Fame
UEFA Jubilee Award (Northern Ireland)
Golden Foot
England League Team of the Century
First Division highest scorer: 1968
European Cup winner: 1968
First Division winner: 1965, 1967

In the entire history of football, George Best stands alone as the greatest winger to combine breath-taking creativity with a massive volume of goals. The complete package out wide - no one can touch his status in the game from that stand-point. Some increased their goal output, but became more constricted players with diminished overall games. Others didn't score as much, and polished other areas of their overall skillset. No one combined the two like O Quinto Beatle. Pace to burn, touch, outrageous skill, balance,innovation, two-footedness, the ability to glide by defenders and bypass his marker - Best could do it all - on top of scoring a multitude of goals (32 in a season at this peak). Another thing that sets him apart in a historical context is the relative willingness to track back in support of his fullback, and work for the team - something that a lot of other flash stars often refused to do.


PELÉ

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IFFHS Player of the Century: 1st
France Football Player of the Century: 1st
Placar Player of the Century: 1st
South American Player of the Century: 1st
FIFA Grand Jury World Player of the Century: 1st
World Soccer Player of the Century: 1st
Voetbal International Greatest Players: 1st
FIFA Centennial Player Award
IOC Athlete of the Century
Brazil Player of the Century
Ballon D'Or Le nouveau palmarès (the new winners): 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1970
World Team of the 20th Century
FIFA Team of the 20th Century
FIFA World Cup All-Time XI
World Cup Golden Ball: 1970
World Cup Silver Boot: 1958
World Cup Silver Ball: 1958
World Cup All-Star: 1958, 1970
Copa América Golden Ball: 1959
Copa América Golden Boot: 1959
Campeonato Série A Top Scorer: 1961, 1963, 1964
Campeonato Paulista Top Scorer: 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1969, 1973
Brazil All-Time top scorer
etc etc.

O Rei Pelé - the gold standard for every footballer for over half a century. Every successive generation of football legends aimed for that level, but no one could surpass him. And that's not just our opinion for the purpose of this draft, but overall.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/was-pele-overrated.403949/#post-17425492

No point serenading him any more. Though there was a little nugget about another player in there:
Needless to say, I consider Pele to be the greatest ever but when it comes to the most complete player of all time, it simply has to be Don Alfredo. He was the playmaker, goalscorer and a relentless dynamic player who contributed to all phases of the game, all rolled into one single unbelievable package. He simply had it all.
:)

And here's a smattering of quotes for good measure:

"I told myself before the game, 'he's made of skin and bones just like everyone else'. But I was wrong.”
Tarcisio Burgnich, the Italy defender who marked Pele in the Mexico 1970 Final

“The difficulty, the extraordinary, is not to score 1,000 goals like Pele – it’s to score one goal like Pele.”
Carlos Drummond de Andrade, Brazilian poet

"Pelé had the skin of a player, head, pace, everything. He was a panther dressed in white, I played with him. He entered to play in the last minute and he could turn the match. And the big difference is that Pelé on the field created fear, Maradona not...For me, it is Pelé, Alfredo Di Stefano and Maradona, in that order. I appreciate Diego, he is a great player. But from another planet was Pelé, not him."
Hugo Gatti

"Question: Best player you ever saw? -AF: Pelé, di Stefano, Maradona, Cruyff. -Q:In that order? -AF: Yes, I think so."
Sir Alex Ferguson


“The greatest player in history was Di Stefano. I refuse to classify Pele as a player. He was above that.”
Ferenc Puskas

“After the fifth goal, even I wanted to cheer for him.”
Sigge Parling of Sweden on a 5-2 defeat by Brazil in the 1958 FIFA World Cup Final

“I arrived hoping to stop a great man, but I went away convinced I had been undone by someone who was not born on the same planet as the rest of us.”
Costa Pereira on Benfica’s 5-2 loss to Santos in the 1962 Intercontinental Cup in Lisbon

"Pele was the greatest – he was simply flawless. And off the pitch he is always smiling and upbeat. You never see him bad-tempered. He loves being Pele.”
Tostao

“When I saw Pele play, it made me feel I should hang up my boots.”
Just Fontaine

“Pele was one of the few who contradicted my theory: instead of 15 minutes of fame, he will have 15 centuries.”
Andy Warhol

“Pele was the only footballer who surpassed the boundaries of logic.”
Johan Cruyff

“I sometimes feel as though football was invented for this magical player.”
Sir Bobby Charlton

Malcolm Allison: “How do you spell Pele?”
Pat Crerand: “Easy: G-O-D.”
British television commentators during Mexico 1970

"The best of all was Pele, who is a mixture of Di Stefano, [Diego] Maradona, Cruyff and Leo Messi."
Luis Menoti

"Pele is the greatest player in football history, and there will only be one Pele in the world."
Cristiano Ronaldo

"Debate about the greatest player of the 20th century is absurd. There is only one answer: Pele. He is the greatest player of all time, and by some distance I might add."
Zico

"There's Pele the man, and then Pele the player. And to play like Pele is to play like God."
Michel Platini
 
DOWNCAST PLAYERS & THE WORLD CUP - A LOVE STORY

PLEASE OPEN THE SPOILER


10 winners -15 finals played by all my 11 players on the field


WC 1930 - Runner-Up: Luis Monti with Argentina

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WC 1934 - Winner: Luis Monti with Italia

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http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/y=2016/m=3/news=the-unique-tale-of-luis-monti-2772055.html

WC 1954 - Runner-Up

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WC 1974 - The Winner

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WC 1978 - The Winner

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WC 1982 - The Winners

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WC1986: Winners VS Runner-Up

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WC 1990 - Winners VS Runners-Up

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WC 1994 - Winner

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WC 1998 - Runner-Up

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WC 2002 - Winner

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Downcasttack - Maradona as the Offensive Leader

A. What does the Milan AC Community think?

“Maradona; when he was on form, there was almost no way of stopping him.” — Franco Baresi

“He was dangerous, he used to score against us often. We had to be very well organised; put pressure on him, doubling up, tripling up even to limit his talents. Because if it was one-on-one, you’d lose.” — Franco Baresi

“The number one: one of the best players in football history. He demonstrated with both Argentina and Napoli that a genius always wins. He could even play alone and win.” — Franco Baresi

“Maradona and Di Stéfano were the two greatest Argentinian players. Different, but the greatest. Maradona had more talent. Alfredo was just everywhere [on the pitch] at once,”

“Messi is the best in the world today but he lacks the personality of Diego. Maradona could play anywhere. It Italy [during Maradona’s era] they did not play beautiful football. It may be a bit better now but Italian football is very difficult, possession is hard to maintain. Yet, Maradona had the edge in Italy and in Spain. Nobody could stop Maradona.”


"We once played against him with Milan and totally dominated. Then Diego got the ball, shook off two players and set up Careca, who scored the 1-0 for them. I have never seen someone who was so decisive.”


Arrigo Sacchi

“Maradona is the best opponent I’ve ever played against in my career.” — Paolo Maldini

“The greatest player I’ve ever seen, way ahead of everyone else, including [Michel] Platini, [Karl-Heinz] Rummenigge and the rest. Maradona was a cut above.” — Paolo Maldini

“The best player there has ever been, better than Pele. I watched him closely in Italy every week and he was at a different level to everyone else. Some of the things he did were unbelievable. He could control the ball without looking, which meant if the pass was on, he would take it.” — Ruud Gullit

B. and the others? Please open the spoiler

“A genius, a real artist, one of the greatest players in the world. He could win a match on his own. On his own.” — Sir Bobby Robson

“When Diego came to Argentinos Juniors for trials, I was really struck by his talent and couldn’t believe he was only eight years old. In fact, we asked him for his ID card so we could check it, but he told us he didn’t have ferit on him. We were sure he was having us on because, although he had the physique of a child, he played like an adult. When we discovered he’d been telling us the truth, we decided to devote ourselves purely to him.”
Francisco Cornejo, youth coach at Argentinos Juniors who discovered Maradona

“It’s very difficult to be Maradona. The pressure he lives under, no one in the history of football has had to go through that.” — Jorge Valdano

“Diego is someone many people want to imitate – a controversial figure, both loved and loathed, and someone who provokes huge debate, especially in Argentina. In Mexico (in 1986), we had to stop him from training, otherwise he would have been at it day and night. Bilardo wouldn’t let him, as he said the altitude would take too much out of him. So the only conflict we had with Diego at that World Cup was with him wanting to do extra training.” — Jorge Valdano

“Some say Pele was the greatest player of all time, but not me. Maradona will always be the greatest. He won World Cup in 1986, narrowly lost in the final in 1990 and then in 1994 maybe would have won it again had he not been banned. The crucial difference with Pele is that Maradona wasn’t surrounded by great players; he had to carry the team himself. If you took Maradona out of Argentina they would not win the World Cup, but I think Brazil without Pele would still have won.” — Eric Cantona

“Diego Maradona was the best by far. [ . . . ] for me he is the greatest player of all time.” — Rudi Voller

“Even if I played for a million years, I’d never come close to Maradona. Not that I’d want to anyway. He’s the greatest there’s ever been.” —
Lionel Messi

“Diego certainly had this peculiarity that he never complained about a tackle or a bad foul against him.” — Ciro Ferrara

“He was very acrobatic. Maybe it was his height, but he was able to move in small spaces and still do some spectacular stuff.” — Ciro Ferrara

“I’ve seen him play with the outside of his foot, instep, inner part of his foot, the backheel, the rabona, the bicycle kick. I’ve seen him do everything, every possible play imaginable, even the tunnel between the other player’s legs.” — Ciro Ferrara

“His movement off the ball was incredible. I’ve never seen anyone with better movement. He positioned himself in such a way, it would make it really easy to play alongside him. I’d like to have played with him, and I’m sure he would then have scored 2000 goals, because I would’ve given him the ball every time.” — Zico

“I was very lucky to be his team-mate and get to play with him as well as watch him train every day. The things he did! He was and will always be unique. Off the pitch, I always liked his simplicity. He was Maradona, yet with the team, he seemed just like an ordinary lad like the rest of us. He didn’t behave at all like a football star.” — Gianfranco Zola

“I want to salute Diego Maradona because for me he has been, and always will be, football.” — Francesco Totti

C. Action

Let's analyse one game Napoli 4-1 Milan (88/89) of Baresi & co.

Please click on the gifs to get a complete vision. Gifs are inserted into quotes not to make your screen sluggish.



Head Maradona near Baresi



Puskas left + Maradona + Ronaldo right


Maradona relax under pressure



Football is sample

 
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Wow. What a match up... This is going to be absolute carnage.
 
Downcasts team is great but the other is out of this world - that front four + wingbacks :drool:
 
I think there are a handful of things that need to be addressed here, before the thread becomes bloated with videos and gifs.
Downcast - 17 August 2016 - 'InvicTheon may own the wings. I own the victory'
Downcast - 18 August 2016 - 'No Joga Bonito on the wings. I'm here to destroy the heart of his team and win'
Not sure how that works, mate. I could understand if you were ignoring wide players who wouldn't make much of an impact at this level, but with Vogts in a weird role, and Cabrini pinned back, this game is veeeery likely to be decided out wide, despite anassertion to the contrary in this part.
The team has been built to please Captain Maradona - version Napoli - who used to play behind 2 strikers. The phenomenon Ronaldo - Inter Milan Version - & Puskas - version Hungary - & Matthaus - Inter Milan Version - also prefer a configuration with 2 CFs. The strategy is clear. My players don't need wingers to score and the idea is to dominate the central area & have a strong defensive base. Why? Because the focus is on the strategic areas and at the heart of the game. We are not
Dominating a central area of Baresi, Passarella, Varela, Redondo and Di Stéfano is easier said that done. This part makes it sound like a casual stroll in the park.
Scirea will be the defensive leader & the fighter Matthaus will harass the elegant players like Redondo or Di Stefano.
Harass an 'elegant' player like Di Stéfano?
The Offensive Strategy - On the wings, Cabrini & Vogts are known for their successful offensive contributions.
I'd personally liken Vogts more to a Burgnich, than a Dani Alves, truth be told. A prototypical defensive side-back is being misused as a wingback here, which is a travesty, IMO. I could boy him in more offensive flank with someone ahead of him. But as a wingback? No way. That entire right flank is a tactical clusterfeck against Best and Facchetti.
- Ronaldo: bad memories for Nesta : to be explained later
Nah, that won't be necessary.
Maradona: bad memories for Baresi & co in the Calcio: to be explained later
That video is from a Milan game, and has been posted several times, TBH. Don't think it adds much to the narrative of this particular game, given that the team personnel and opposition are of a very different nature.
- 30% of the goals are scored on set-pieces: I possess Maradona and Matthäus depending the distance from the goal.
Pelé, Brehme, Passarella were all exceptional set piece specialists.
 
Brehme on the Right? He is right footed, but what exactly is his record at right back?
I can see Theon's influence in 2 sweeper CB's. :D I still can remember his earlier argument though I'm not convinced that it's balanced.
Spot on with rest of players. Mouthwatering attack.

And Vogts as Wingback? With Bergomi already there, this looks like an overkill. A more attacking RB would have made the team better and added width.
Spot on with rest of players.

Overall, it's a tough call with two excellent teams. Will be a tough entertaining match in real life! On initial overview, I find myself leaning towards Downcast. His setup is perfect to contain wide threats and with Scirea/Monti/Matthaus a nice defensive shield in the middle too. He also sports a powerful central attack, that I can see forcing a decider here.
 
Defensive strategy of Invictus

CC9YQTW.jpg


Milan AC used to play with 2 stronger defensive lines (4-4-2) and it didn't always work... while InvicTheon has a strategy much more offensive

“Coaches recommended a second defensive line against him because everyone had the impression that Ronaldo would be able to lose his marker, whether it was with a sprint, or facing a defender directly.”
— Marcello Lippi

Other confrontations - Maradona vs Milan of Baresi




Other confrontations - Maradona vs Milan of Baresi
 
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@Invictus

I know he is perfectly capable of it , just wondering how often brehme actually did play right back ?
 
@Invictus

I know he is perfectly capable of it , just wondering how often brehme actually did play right back ?
He was great on either flank, given that he used both feet to perfection. Sample: semi-final of the Euros:



Even handled Gullit in the game, IIRC.
 
He was great on either flank, given that he used both feet to perfection. Sample: semi-final of the Euros:



Even handled Gullit in the game, IIRC.

Yeah I read that he preferred to use his right foot but he could kick harder with his left .

No team has a weak spot for me here , it says a lot that the weakest player on the field is perhaps redondo
 
Pelé, Brehme, Passarella were all exceptional set piece specialists.

I didn't say the contrary.

I'd personally liken Vogts more to a Burgnich, than a Dani Alves, truth be told. A prototypical defensive side-back is being misused as a wingback here, which is a travesty, IMO. I could boy him in more offensive flank with someone ahead of him. But as a wingback? No way. That entire right flank is a tactical clusterfeck against Best and Facchetti.





Harass an 'elegant' player like Di Stéfano?

Yeah, Matthaus-Monti are likely to restrict severely the impact of Di Stefano imho

Nah, that won't be necessary.

I thought Nesta would play because he would be a better defensive option in a 4-3-3 system while Passarella is known for being an 'advanced sweeper' in a 3-5-2 system.

That video is from a Milan game, and has been posted several times, TBH. Don't think it adds much to the narrative of this particular game, given that the team personnel and opposition are of a very different nature.

If Maradona is able to shine against the Milan AC of Baresi, Maldini, Desailly, & co (4-4-2 system); then it shows he will do something good tonight :)
 
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He was great on either flank, given that he used both feet to perfection. Sample: semi-final of the Euros:

Can't we say Brehme would be excellent on the left but just good on the right? After all, he is known for being a left wing-back, not a right-back.
 
Dominating a central area of Baresi, Passarella, Varela, Redondo and Di Stéfano is easier said that done. This part makes it sound like a casual stroll in the park.

Contrary to your team, I don't have wingers so I think each teams has his pros & cons.

Consequently, not crazy to think I have more central players on the field.
 
you both should be punished because of profiles(main thread) and videos/gifs(spoilers)....thread is impossible to read.
 
Maradona with The Galloping Major and O Fenomeno at his disposal will wreck absolute havoc. Of all the attackers he is the one with the best passing, vision, accuracy and undeniable knack of always finding the correct pass under the tightest of situations and he has just the weapons at his disposal. Two electric all round forwards who have enough in their game to create an opening against the calibre of opposition defenders but also neither the attitude nor the playing style to interfere with any of Diego's proceedings - the perfect blend to shine along with the master. Maradona with a bombarding Matthaus against Redondo and Varela is the game changer for me, they won't be able to cope with the pace and penetration of Diego while leaving a decent gap between midfield and defense to let Diego weave his magic. Lothar's two way game is way too strong here and makes a huge difference. I can see Downcast's no nonsense back 4 (which is what it looks like to me - it is quite clearly a 1-4-3-2 formation) filled with aggro and defience marshalled by the composed orchestrator in Scirea keeping a clean sheet here collectively as a unit. Possible 2-0 with a late second goal to seal the game to Downcast.
 
Brehme on the Right? He is right footed, but what exactly is his record at right back?
I can see Theon's influence in 2 sweeper CB's. :D I still can remember his earlier argument though I'm not convinced that it's balanced.
Spot on with rest of players. Mouthwatering attack.

And Vogts as Wingback? With Bergomi already there, this looks like an overkill. A more attacking RB would have made the team better and added width.
Spot on with rest of players.

Overall, it's a tough call with two excellent teams. Will be a tough entertaining match in real life! On initial overview, I find myself leaning towards Downcast. His setup is perfect to contain wide threats and with Scirea/Monti/Matthaus a nice defensive shield in the middle too. He also sports a powerful central attack, that I can see forcing a decider here.
I'd like to contend a few points here, mate.

Reg. Brehme - his versatility was the reason we targeted him, specifically. And you don't have to take my word regarding his quality on the right, either
Brehme's style was quite unique and he was pretty unpredictable, which as a full-back was saying quite something. He could quite simply do it all, he could own either flank single-handedly, as two-footed as they come (could take free-kicks and penalties with either foot), was likely to either unleash one by cutting inside or playing a sumptuous cross on the outside, capable of significantly influencing play from the back with his excellent build-up play. Great defender to boot as well.

He's one of 5 full backs ever, to finish in a Ballon d'Or top 3 and he also won the Serie A POTY, in a ridiculously strong league featuring the likes of Maldini, Baresi, Gullit, Matthäus, Rijkaard, and Van Basten, as a LB for Christ sake!



The ridiculous bugger had it all. Can hardly think of such an well rounded threat at LB and someone who was such an imposing and versatile threat to opponents.

His match winning exploits at the WC as a FB were legendary to say the least. Scoring in the 86 semis against France and leading the failed comeback in the final against Argentina, with 2 of his corners resulting in goals. Repeated the feat in 1990 by scoring in the semis against England and topping it off with the WC winning goal in the final. Epic stuff.

A older final:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-euro-draft-final-joga-bonito-vs-team-eap.404612/

Think Víctor Rodríguez Andrade on the left and right, but much better.

Reg. 2 sweepers, before this snowballs:

Given Baresi's stature as arguably the best pure defender in football, and the fact that he was nigh flawless at centerback, apart from sweeper, we don't see a problem here. Icould understand the critique against some one like Kocsis because of the hold-up and aerial threat, but against 2 mobile strikers, Baresi and Passarella are up to the task- especially when the latter is specifically being asked not to venture forward - something he was mindful of in bigger matches which called for a more reserved approach.

I don't see how the opposition perfect to contain wide threats, truth be told. Kohler was allergic to quicker and smaller players (kind of like the anti-Gentile) - and him getting dragged out wide creates loads of space in the middle - especially when Brehme pushes up the pitch. And there's 0 width on the right - the whole flank is going to be open, unless Vogts pushes up and Bergomi goes wide - which again creates spaces in the middle. As someone who criticized our teams in the past for a lack of width, surely you must realize that the stoppers getting dragged wide over and over again compromises the integrity of the defense, and plays into the opponent's hands.
 
Silly number of videos/gifs getting posted - a few is okay to illustrate a particular point but let's keep it sensible.
 
Surprised to see Brehme's credentials at right back getting questioned given the amount of times he played there throughout his career - he was completely two footed and is frequently used as a right back in these drafts.

The much more problematic right back on the pitch is Berti Vogts - an excellent defender and whilst he's probably slightly more technical than he gets credit for hes ultimately one of least suited of the top right backs to play a wingback role.
 
@Theon Just made some spoilers.

My offensive strategy don't rely on Vogts.

Matthaus-Vogts on the right is just a plaform to support the offensive trio.
 
I thought Nesta would play because he would be a better defensive option in a 4-3-3 system while Passarella is known for being an 'advanced sweeper' in a 3-5-2 system.

That's not totally accurate mate and Passarella played in a back four when he led Argentina to the World Cup in '78.

Of all the great Liberos he's comfortably the one most associated with being a 'stopper' and his style of defending was completely different to that of Scirea for example.

I'd have no issues partnering Moore, Passarella or Figueroa with Baresi - to be honest I doubt it would be an issue with Beckenbauer or Scirea either but others may disagree there.
 
Let's move on. Time to speak about Ronaldo.

Ronaldo - Quotes


“Without hesitation, Ronaldo is the best player I ever played with. He had such an ease with the ball. He is number one. Every day I trained with him, I saw something different, something new, something beautiful. That’s what makes the difference between a very good player, and the exception, who, for me, is Ronaldo.”

“There was no system or tactics that could stop him. It’s like that with a few players and he was one of them – he was fast and skilled. When Ronaldo had the ball, he ran at 2000 miles per hour. In most cases, you’re fast without the ball. He was fast with it.”
— Zinedine Zidane


“I remember the defenders were all afraid of him. That’s the word at the time of facing him.”
— Alberto Zaccheroni

“Ronaldo was my hero. He was the best striker I’ve ever seen. He was so fast he could score from nothing, and could shoot the ball better than anyone.”
— Lionel Messi

“Ronaldo is the hardest attacker I’ve ever had to face. He was impossible to stop.”
— Alessandro Nesta

“The worst experience I ever had was playing against Ronaldo when we faced Internazionale in the 1998 UEFA Cup Final in Paris. He’s an incredible player. I have watched that game on video so many times since then, trying to work out what I did wrong. We lost 3-0 but I don’t think now it was my fault. Ronaldo was simply unstoppable. He is so quick he makes everyone else look as if they are standing still.”
–Alessandro Nesta

“Coaches recommended a second defensive line against him because everyone had the impression that Ronaldo would be able to lose his marker, whether it was with a sprint, or facing a defender directly.”
— Marcello Lippi

“He could do whatever he wanted with the ball. If he decided to score, then he’d score. He had strength, technique, and could play anywhere, on any pitch, against any opponent. He was above everyone else.”

“What I saw Ronaldo do in that first season at Inter, *sighs*, well I’ve never seen anyone do that. He did incredible things with the ball, at such speed. Incredible.”
— Sandro Mazzola

“After Maradona the best player was Ronaldo [ . . . ] it is my opinion that he is the best of the last 20 years.”
Jose Mourinho, after Klose broke Ronaldo’s record for goals scored in World Cup finals in 2015

“Ronaldo during his first two years at Inter was phenomenal.”
— Paolo Maldini
This is the Ronaldo I want.

“The best I have ever played against. If it wasn’t for injury I think he would be talked about on the same level as Pele and Diego Maradona.”
— Gianluigi Buffon

“He was my idol and then I end up playing and winning a World Cup with him. The most complete striker there has ever been, the most complete striker there will ever be, it is almost unbelievable to think that he never won the Champions League.”
— Ronaldinho - suspended tonight

“Ronaldo did things nobody had seen before. He, together with Romario and George Weah, reinvented the center-forward position. They were the first to drop from the penalty box to pick up the ball in midfield, switch to the flanks, attract and disorientate the central defenders with their runs, their accelerations, their dribbling.”
— Thierry Henry - on the bench
 
That's not totally accurate mate and Passarella played in a back four when he led Argentina to the World Cup in '78.

Of all the great Liberos he's comfortably the one most associated with being a 'stopper' and his style of defending was completely different to that of Scirea for example.

I'd have no issues partnering Moore, Passarella or Figueroa with Baresi - to be honest I doubt it would be an issue with Beckenbauer or Scirea either but others may disagree there.

Are you sure Vogts has never played in a 3-5-2 system?
 
Quite surprised with Nesta being on the bench. Don't think that you can upgrade Nesta - Baresi pairing without losing something along the way - but my views on Passarella are a little different from Theon's iirc.

Invictus' flanks are absolutely devastating, it doesn't get better from the attacking point of view - although Downcast's central fist + Matthäus is equally devastating.
 
Brehme on the Right? He is right footed, but what exactly is his record at right back?
I prefer him on the left as it's still his natural position but as an attacking right back I'd only pick C. Alberto and Cafu ahead of him (well, and Alves if we're talking purely about their offensive qualities).
 
I'd personally liken Vogts more to a Burgnich, than a Dani Alves, truth be told. A prototypical defensive side-back is being misused as a wingback here, which is a travesty, IMO. I could boy him in more offensive flank with someone ahead of him. But as a wingback? No way. That entire right flank is a tactical clusterfeck against Best and Facchetti.
He was fantastic offensively to be fair and his career for Germany (esp. man-marking job on Cruyff) isn't a true indication of his abilities. Not sure about a pure wingback though, but he can easily play as an offensive right back
 
I thought @Downcast had this in the bag before the semis, but he got shafted a bit by Edgar. But hell, Invictus/Theon have built one helluva side. Can't fault it at all.

Will wait for a bit more feedback, but really the only position I can question is Nesta over Passarella. Nesta should've started there.
 
Would prefer a Nesta-Baresi pair over the current one myself. Leaves the leading and commanding part completely to Baresi and tactically a better fit with Nesta very comfortably following Baresi's lead.