The Double Draft - R1: DavidG vs Skizzo/Pat

Who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
DavidG said:
@Edgar Allan Pillow I don't know who the panel was but I suspect it wasn't full of youngsters

http://www.worldsoccer.com/features/the-greatest-xi-how-the-panel-voted-341427

Figeruoa- 1 vote
Scirea- 1 vote
Falcao - not there
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Down below you can see how each one voted. The premise itself is a full of crap tho, as it doesn't create a functional teams but rather cramming the best players together.

Check for example Bobic team:

Team: Zoff, Cafu, Beckenbauer, Maldini, Brehme, Figo, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Messi, Muller

or another example:

Team: Yashin, Djalma Santos, Beckenbauer, Schwarzenbeck, Maldini, Messi, Zidane, Maradona, Puskas, Cruyff, Pele

which makes Bobic team rather balanced.

and of course the natural bias of others like the Irish guy voting for Brady.
 
They are all employed to write about/ research football . My point is that the players I mentioned as not appealing to voters on here barely featured at all on a large list of people who , with all due respect , are much more qualified to pass judgement on the GOAT ( I.e. They get paid for it )
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Defender and less-flashy-than-Socrates midfielder - so that's not surprising. It's probably a generational thing. I remember the '82 team - the first WC team which truly captured my imagination as a very young lad. So, to me even the likes of Eder are memorable players.

And I'm prone to overrate those players for exactly that reason. They stand out to me in a way more modern players - or more ancient players - simply do not. Because I was right there - when they were at their greatest, and when I myself was at my most impressionable.

Even worse with '86 - as I was actually capable of grasping the more subtle points of football by then. The summer of '86 - incredible. Watching those matches, then going out to play football with your mates, pretending to be Maradona - those are incredibly vivid memories.

It took me a long time to get over that bias. And I probably am not completely over it still.
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I don't think you guys are overbiased at all (the older caftards). When I saw Scirea play (researching old matches etc) I was stunned, absolutely brilliant player. It saddens me a great deal when I look at modern day defenders who are supposed to be more talented on the ball ever since the pass back rule change, yet we have some very average ball players in the modern game.. which is why someone like Stones is going at £50m plus. Guys like Baresi and Scirea had a midfielder's ball playing intelligence and passed through the lines with ease. They had a composure on the ball which is beyond any modern day defender including any from the 90's era.

My real footballing knowledge begins 1995 onwards, as that is when I was watching the game, but I would say my favorite era of footballers are 60's and the 1958 world cup, I could rewatch all day as it has so many cracking yet unheralded footballers on show. The pace of the game in that world cup was insane, the Brazil 1958 team for me personally played a more athletic, fast paced game than the 1970 team but that team was more cultured.

It is a generational thing though and I think it depends on what country you come from, being born in the UK.. you have to know your 60's footballers as we won the world cup in 1966 and you pick up on guys like Eusebio, Pele, Garrincha as you go along but the 70's and early 80's was a lost decade for us. Then you have 1986, Maradona is just so dominant a figure in your perception of that world cup and as a kid, you just assume.. he is the be all and end all of that tourney.

Unless you're involved in drafting, it is very rare you'll come across Scirea and Falcao as a young football fan even if you're a keen reader of autobiographies and history books on football.
 
DavidG said:
@Edgar Allan Pillow I don't know who the panel was but I suspect it wasn't full of youngsters

http://www.worldsoccer.com/features/the-greatest-xi-how-the-panel-voted-341427

Figeruoa- 1 vote
Scirea- 1 vote
Falcao - not there
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It's not really a stretch to know top 10 by position, right? If all-time knowledge extended to that level, then people would be familiar with the names above.

Everyone talks about Brazil being a great footballing nation. How can you even mean that without knowing the iconic side that literally is the definition of "great footballing side"?

I really don't get that poll. The first line in the page reads "Each voter was asked to select an Xl in a 4-4-2 formation..." and most teams don't even feature a winger! If you scroll down to the teams by panel members, most are just a list of top players and completely dysfunctional as a team.

I do recall that Figueroa made Top 50 in FIFA Player of the Century poll!
 
On the note above (more or less), I noticed something the other day. Since you are the only people I know about who would be remotely interested, I submit it here.

Casagrande. Remember him? Played for Brazil, up front, in '86. Decent enough career, club wise, played mainly in Brazil but had spells in Europe (Porto - actually in the season when they won the old EC, but he hardly featured * - Ascoli and Torino). Was NEVER a prolific striker. But for Brazil he managed a highly respectable 0.47 GPG ratio. And he is a player I actually remember very well. He was a big fecker - a target man, one could say.

* He was an un-used sub in the final.
 
Raees said:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/raees-vs-eap-all-time-3-year-peak-auction-draft.405055/

I had Matthaus there, with Didi in midfield. Both of them considered top 5 CM's of all time and still ended up getting beat on mostly midfield issues with Didi being an issue.

Hard midfielder to get the best out of. What would be the best partners for him in an ideal fantasy formation?
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I think that was more to do with the narrowness of the front three, versus a very well crafted and clean opposition XI. For example, Annah won an all-time draft with Matthaus and Didi as the midfield pairing.
 
DavidG said:
They are all employed to write about/ research football . My point is that the players I mentioned as not appealing to voters on here barely featured at all on a large list of people who , with all due respect , are much more qualified to pass judgement on the GOAT ( I.e. They get paid for it )
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They may be, but they're clearly mugs if they believe Makelele, Brady and Cerezo deserve to be included in a list of all-time midfielders above Falcao.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
On the note above (more or less), I noticed something the other day. Since you are the only people I know about who would be remotely interested, I submit it here.

Casagrande. Remember him? Played for Brazil, up front, in '86. Decent enough career, club wise, played mainly in Brazil but had spells in Europe (Porto - actually in the season when they won the old EC, but he hardly featured * - Ascoli and Torino). Was NEVER a prolific striker. But for Brazil he managed a highly respectable 0.47 GPG ratio. And he is a player I actually remember very well. He was a big fecker - a target man, one could say.

* He was an un-used sub in the final.
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I've watched the 86 WC on tape some years ago(most matches) I have no recollection of him. Without looking it up I remember Brazil playing with 2 men up front one was Careca and the other one was a young lad that shared the same name as Muller, or smth.
 
Enigma_87 said:
I've watched the 86 WC on tape some years ago(most matches) I have no recollection of him. Without looking it up I remember Brazil playing with 2 men up front one was Careca and the other one was a young lad that shared the same name as Muller, or smth.
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Müller, eh? Yeah, he was there. But Casagrande started in several matches, unless my memory has been shot entirely to pieces by drink and...other substances.
 
To make it clear (which it probably wasn't, as it stood), the point of highlighting poor Casagrande was this:

1) He's nobody special but he was an important player for Brazil in '86.

2) He could, conceivably, be remembered by people who remember that tournament very well (as I do).

The combination of those factors could easily lead to someone overrating him, as the phrase goes. I don't think that has ever happened - but there you go.

But it could have. And looking back, down the years - not to say decades - it's actually an apposite case to bring up.
 
@Pat_Mustard @Skizzo

Sorry, I didn't vote because I was waiting for the answers of @DavidG and I just came back home.

I'm inclined to say Pat & Skizzo deserved their victory because there is an excellent harmony and a diversity of threats.

DavidG would have had more success if he played with a midfield like this: Petit + Didi + an attacking midfielder

DavidG has made a very good work but I would have preferred a more 'offensive midfield'.

Petit is a hard-working defensive midfielder and Didi used to play in a 4-2-4 system.

I don't think Didi is so underrated but he seems to be a 'central midfielder', a playmaker able to support 4 offensive players and make an excellent defensive work.
 
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Downcast said:
@Pat_Mustard @Skizzo

Sorry, I didn't vote because I was waiting for the answers of @DavidG and I just came back home.

I'm inclined to say Pat & Skizzo deserved their victory because there is an excellent harmony and a diversity of threats.

DavidG would have had more success if he played with a midfield like this: Petit + Didi + an attacking midfielder

DavidG has made a very good work but I would have preferred a more 'offensive midfield'.
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Petit + didi didn't take care of totti though
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Hard Luck @DavidG. It was a close match-up.

Congrats @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard
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DavidG said:
Congrats @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard , I should have picked a young goalkeeper and shoved tassotti at right back but alas !

Guarantee my team gets absolutely raped in the reinforcements
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Cheers lads, and hard luck David. I thought the Stiles sub was a good one personally, as Totti seems to be having a real purple patch in drafts these days after being fairly unappreciated for a long time. Maldini and Muller will get snapped up in reinforcements for sure, probably Buffon too if people are replacing youth GKs, and Nedved often features in the later rounds too.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Cheers lads, and hard luck David. I thought the Stiles sub was a good one personally, as Totti seems to be having a real purple patch in drafts these days after being fairly unappreciated for a long time. Maldini and Muller will get snapped up in reinforcements for sure, probably Buffon too if people are replacing youth GKs, and Nedved often features in the later rounds too.
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In hindsight , I should have took kuyt and went for a zona Mista formation !
 
DavidG said:
In hindsight , I should have took kuyt and went for a zona Mista formation !
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Yeah Kuyt doesn't look too bad as a legacy choice in retrospect :lol:. Petit got less credit than I thought he would here,and I wasn't inclined to start bigging up the opponent's legacy player myself. But he was half of one of the best central midfields in Premier League history, a WC and Euros winner who scored one and assisted one in a WC final, and overall he was a highly regarded player at his peak.
 
DavidG said:
In hindsight , I should have took kuyt and went for a zona Mista formation !
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Yeah my Zona Mista presentation is a success :D

Zoff: Joga
Cabrini: Skizzo/Pat
Gentile: P-Nut
Scirea: Downcast
Tardelli: Downcast
Boniek: harms
Platini: P-Nut
Paolo Rossi: Cal

Unpicked: Brio, Bettega, Bonini

Schevchenko: mazhar13
Xavi: Redtiger/Marty
Kaka: Redtiger/Marty
Zambrotta : mazhar13
Courtois: Sjor

Unpicked: Etoo, Bonucci, Barzagli, Tudor, Vidal, Senna, Kuyt
 
Good game @DavidG as Pat said, I think the Stiles sub was a good one, and was expecting it to sway a few more voters.

I certainly agree your team will be losing a few, maybe up to half, of your starters.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
On the note above (more or less), I noticed something the other day. Since you are the only people I know about who would be remotely interested, I submit it here.

Casagrande. Remember him? Played for Brazil, up front, in '86. Decent enough career, club wise, played mainly in Brazil but had spells in Europe (Porto - actually in the season when they won the old EC, but he hardly featured * - Ascoli and Torino). Was NEVER a prolific striker. But for Brazil he managed a highly respectable 0.47 GPG ratio. And he is a player I actually remember very well. He was a big fecker - a target man, one could say.

* He was an un-used sub in the final.
Click to expand...

Oh, yes I do.

image.jpg
 
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