Zizinho, very little footage.. there is loads of footage on Didi though.
The Double Draft - R1: DavidG vs Skizzo/Pat
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
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Zizinho, very little footage.. there is loads of footage on Didi though.
I expected Schuster to start instead of Van Hanegem - mostly because Verratti is much closer to the latter stylistically, and you could've used young Schuster's dynamism here.
Haven't read the thread yet, but I believe that David made a substitution - and now his side looks much better (in 5-man defense wingbacks are absolutely crucial and nor Marcelo nor, God forbid, Bellerin deserve to be picked in an all-time non-restricted draft)
Haven't read the thread yet, but I believe that David made a substitution - and now his side looks much better (in 5-man defense wingbacks are absolutely crucial and nor Marcelo nor, God forbid, Bellerin deserve to be picked in an all-time non-restricted draft)
meh, bloody autocorrect. Otherwise I agree with you.Yes, but that isn't Porto in his prime
And so you lose the prime (or top, top) factor. Which is important.
When I made some research on him I found highlights of around 10 games or so and couple of compilations with passing.
I suppose that's a central issue here. It's a bit of the old "fecked if you do, fecked if you don't" conundrum. I agree with your assessment of that pair as wingbacks in an all-time draft - but then again there's little doubt Bellerin would be less vulnerable in a 5-3-2 (defensively) set-up, not least since Stiles has been given a marking brief (i.e. he isn't available as an extra defender/hound as such, but is instructed to take care of Totti specifically).
Little info on Didi from the Guardian and NYT:
http://theantiquefootball.com/post/107702563128/a-forgotten-titan-the-story-of-didi
Well worth the read for those who are interested.
Some notable ones:
And a great piece on him by Ian Walker:
http://theantiquefootball.com/post/107702563128/a-forgotten-titan-the-story-of-didi
Well worth the read for those who are interested.
Some notable ones:
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@harms i needed a youth player , and with petit being my legacy and landing didi as my GOAT midfielder it kinda limited where I could look . Needed a right back , and wanted to use pace against pace hence not going for carvajal ( who is quick but not enough to keep up with Henry )
Marcelo is a great choice for a wingback given the players who had already been picked . He's been one of the most consistent performers in the Real Madrid team for the best part of 5 years .
Marcelo is a great choice for a wingback given the players who had already been picked . He's been one of the most consistent performers in the Real Madrid team for the best part of 5 years .
This works out well , as I am travelling back to Scotland on Friday and would likely have been unable to take part in any games until after August 11.
Not exactly on topic, this Didi stuff, but it's interesting to discuss:
Didi was fairly prolific. Stats for his domestic career are very incomplete but if we look at his Brazil stats, he netted around 20 goals in less than 70 matches - which ain't bad. He only played around 20 matches for Real Madrid - but managed to score six goals.
And he scored from open play too - it wasn't just his famous free kicks. So, looking at this factor, it's clear that neither Modric nor Pirlo ticks that particular box to any great extent.
Pogba was mentioned above - and while he doesn't come close in terms of overall quality, he does tick that box (scores fairly often - and is a dangerous man from range, as was Didi).
Didi was fairly prolific. Stats for his domestic career are very incomplete but if we look at his Brazil stats, he netted around 20 goals in less than 70 matches - which ain't bad. He only played around 20 matches for Real Madrid - but managed to score six goals.
And he scored from open play too - it wasn't just his famous free kicks. So, looking at this factor, it's clear that neither Modric nor Pirlo ticks that particular box to any great extent.
Pogba was mentioned above - and while he doesn't come close in terms of overall quality, he does tick that box (scores fairly often - and is a dangerous man from range, as was Didi).
Based on all of that , he should be more highly regarded in any future drafts . This is a fantastic video , showing just how effortless the game was to him .
Not sure if correct but apparently 12 of those 20 goals were from free kicks, can someone confirm this? he also scored 2 goals in the 1954 world cup, before they lost to the magic magyars in the battle of Berne, scoring against both Uruguay and Mexico.. so a credible goal threat at the highest level.
Maybe so - but the obvious counter argument to that will be that...well, that's on you: If you intended to go for a formation with wingbacks, you could have made those positions a priority. The fact that Marcelo ain't too shabby considered as a pick from an already drained pool - is, well, not all that relevant.
He played a lot deeper for the NT, his record for Fluminense is pretty good. His shot is often compared to Gerson and if it was that good then he is a pretty much a goal threat. His dribbling and close control also allowed him to get into very good positions, it's just he had a different role in that Brazil team.
Well, in my opinion, you made a mistake picking him. And an even more formidable mistake in building your side around your weakest players who don't belong in this draft instead of your true stars like Muller or Maldini
Well to be fair to him, every youth player apart from keepers(and not all), Neymar, Alaba and Verratti will look out of depth in an all time pool. If my Leno pick didn't work out(or Oblak) I'd most probably gone for Carvajal and I imagine I'd get a similar reception.
I didn't build it around them ffs, just commented on it more as it's obviously going to get scrutinized.
Maldini and muller don't need big write ups or too much specifics. they are Maldini and muller FFS. I refer to them as arguably ( though definitively in my eyes ) the greatest defender of all time and arguably the greatest pure goalscorer of all time .
Don't worry , one day he will find something nice to say to me instead of disagreeing with everything I say / do / think/ feel/ see/ breathe .
It's reported all over the place, but I can't confirm it.
However, an interesting fact can be mentioned: 8 of his goals came in the '57 Copa America. He was Brazil's top scorer in the tournament - by some distance too.
It's generally hard to confirm free kicks, as they're often counted among regular goals (unlike penalties). On the latter note, I can confirm at least one PK goal for Didi - so that's 13 of 20 non-open play goals (if we accept the 12 FK goals as gospel, that is).
I like Thiago as Didi
Nice comparison actually. A world class version of Thiago would be pretty close to Didi in terms of style.
Yup, that's a better comparison stylistically than Modric and Didi.
I really do not get why Didi doesn't get much love in general. He's an amazing player who defied the notion that you have to be an all-action player to make it in the sport. His determination and fighting spirit was key to Brazil's two World Cup victories even if he didn't visibly express them. His technique on the ball was up there with the best, and he really should be rated higher on the Caf.
In this match, however, I feel like Didi has too much to do to get a victory here, but in general, he shouldn't be seen as a weakness, especially if Gerson isn't viewed in a similar manner.
He's highly rated. It all how you sell him in your team. Even in the match you quoted, I never had bad comments on Didi himself...just on how he is not at his best in your set up.
I think that is where DavidG needs to concentrate for next match. Selling his team. Not just player profiles, but on countering arguments specifically. Skizzo/Pat are veterans in this and you need to be able to sell your team solidly to have a chance against them.
Is that true, though?
I love Dido. I haven't seen any hard evidence that he's positively underrated by anyone either. The example above involved an excellent EAP team - I would've voted for him in that match, and not because I don't appreciate Dido.
How much love is he supposed to get? How did he fare in the the World Cup draft, for instance? That could be an interesting thing to check out.
Which I will, actually - being somewhat bored on a hot Monday afternoon.
We get it you love Dido, but I am not sure she would do well in a musical draft either.
I love her as a (potential) footballer - not as a singer.
World Cup draft (2014): Annah won by a landslide - with a team featuring my favourite singer/midfielder in a high-profile capacity.
World Cup draft (2014): Annah won by a landslide - with a team featuring my favourite singer/midfielder in a high-profile capacity.
Yeah , you can see why he won that . It's almost perfect
Congrats @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard , I should have picked a young goalkeeper and shoved tassotti at right back but alas !
Guarantee my team gets absolutely raped in the reinforcements
I disliked the formation change personall
World Cup draft (2014): Annah won by a landslide - with a team featuring my favourite singer/midfielder in a high-profile capacity.
Jesus.. what a side. Even the real Dido could run the fecking midfield in that.
The opposition, for comparison:
Several points to note: Beckenbauer as a CM (which I like very much, personally - the young Beckenbauer). Figueroa as a common soldier - not the general. Alberto as a forward-bombing RB (which he wasn't generally in '70 - one of anto's famous hang-ups). Zico as a pure #10 - which he wasn't in '82. Much more problematic, in short.
Not to mention the Barca strip - what on earth were they thinking?
The opposition, for comparison:
Several points to note: Beckenbauer as a CM (which I like very much, personally - the young Beckenbauer). Figueroa as a common soldier - not the general. Alberto as a forward-bombing RB (which he wasn't generally in '70 - one of anto's famous hang-ups). Zico as a pure #10 - which he wasn't in '82. Much more problematic, in short.
You have a team with 5/6 players who'd get into the vast majority of people's all time XI ( pele, matthaus, Maldini , facchetti, Moore, Ronaldo ) versus a team who'd have max 3 ( beckenbaeur , Eusebio, muller )
The supporting cast of theon is good but not as good as Annan
Scirea, Figueroa and Kohler are all in the same category as Maldini, Facchetti and Moore. In a back 5 Carlos also makes the grade. Same with Didi and Falcao.
Scirea, Figueroa and Kohler are all in the same category as Maldini, Facchetti and Moore. In a back 5 Carlos also makes the grade. Same with Didi and Falcao.
I'm meaning in terms of why Annan would get more votes from an onlooker . There are a lot of people who can name you a pretty good all time XI who have no idea who figeroua is and would never pick scirea over Maldini , baresi , beckenbaeur , Moore etc . Only by analyzing properly will you learn just how good those two were .
Also , how many casual fans are going to see falcao in there and know who he is / what his game was about ? A lot are going to wonder why there is a Colombian striker in central midfield . Obviously everyone in the draft knows how good they are but your casual fan is going to be able to identify way more with Annans team .
Come on, I can understand if we are talking about Zizinho, Bican and the like. But any person with average knowledge of the game and it's history would know about Falcao, Scirea and the like. They were part of legendary teams that are discussed even now. What you are referring to is modern young posters whose knowledge does not extend past Pele and Maradona and I believe they are at a minority in voting for these games.
The purpose is to entertain and still get a better understanding of classic and modern players. Not just to pander for casual scan votes.
What is the argument here, I thought David was making an observation not a criticism and FWIW I agree with him.
Scirea and Falcao are not names which trip of the tongue for most football fans born post 1990. I consider myself a hardcore football fan and I'll be honest pre getting involved in drafting, I didn't know them that well.
Sindelar, Meazza, Didi, Zico, Socrates.. these are names which I knew for example but Scirea and Falcao, I didn't have much knowledge on them at all.
I love the drafts for that very purpose, increasing one's knowledge about the game.. if we were to always focus on big shiny names which everyone knows, there wouldn't be much to gain from partaking in these.
Very much so, I'd say. Which is why the "scan voter" argument many of us (me included) use sometimes (too often, for that matter) is pretty weak all things said and done.
The number of Caf members who vote out of pure ignorance and bias is actually slender. Well, bias - yes. But that bias can easily extend to old-timers (who they like) as well as more modern (and generally well known) players.
@Edgar Allan Pillow I don't know who the panel was but I suspect it wasn't full of youngsters
http://www.worldsoccer.com/features/the-greatest-xi-how-the-panel-voted-341427
Figeruoa- 1 vote
Scirea- 1 vote
Falcao - not there
http://www.worldsoccer.com/features/the-greatest-xi-how-the-panel-voted-341427
Figeruoa- 1 vote
Scirea- 1 vote
Falcao - not there
Defender and less-flashy-than-Socrates midfielder - so that's not surprising. It's probably a generational thing. I remember the '82 team - the first WC team which truly captured my imagination as a very young lad. So, to me even the likes of Eder are memorable players.
And I'm prone to overrate those players for exactly that reason. They stand out to me in a way more modern players - or more ancient players - simply do not. Because I was right there - when they were at their greatest, and when I myself was at my most impressionable.
Even worse with '86 - as I was actually capable of grasping the more subtle points of football by then. The summer of '86 - incredible. Watching those matches, then going out to play football with your mates, pretending to be Maradona - those are incredibly vivid memories.
It took me a long time to get over that bias. And I probably am not completely over it still.
Yeah, but come on. We know what those things are like.
Breitner gets more votes as an LB than he does as a midfielder. People think Zidane is slightly greater than he actually is. And so forth.
It's bollocks, in short.
A high-end version of the often ridiculous UEFA team of the year...things. The difference being that they can't elect positively sub-par players for the XI.