The Double Draft - QF: Invictus/Theon vs P-Nut

Who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
I take your point that he isn't as good a player as them yet that is no problem. But to deem him completely put of place is too heavy for me. By that reckoning no player that isn't coming towards the end of their career should be considered as they haven't shown it for long enough. And again maybe he won't get the better of Redondo but will him not having a massive impact offensively cause me to lost the game? No or at least it shouldn't when you consider the other attacking options I have on the pitch.

Completely out of place is a bit harsh granted, but when you're assessing (imaginary) teams of this quality then it comes down to fine margins. If we fancy Redondo to get the better of that individual duel, which is only reasonable really, then you have to make up the difference elsewhere on the pitch, which is very, very difficult against a team of Invictus' calibre. On the bolded part, I only somewhat agree. Thomas Muller's body of work is already more than sufficient to view him as an asset in the right system in an all-time level IMO. Messi and Ronaldo were already all-time greats by the time they hit their mid-20s, Neymar wouldn't be out of place in this draft now either. Even Verratti is the more polished and proven player at CL level IMO.

FWIW I applaud you for not just going for the vote-winning options, but I just don't think a persuasive enough argument can be made for Pogba just yet. I haven't voted anyway, but Oblak is much the bigger turn off for me.
 
By that reckoning no player that isn't coming towards the end of their career should be considered as they haven't shown it for long enough.

Well, is that unreasonable? It's an all-time draft. The player would have to be very special.

What you're arguing, basically, is that Pogba is good enough – here and now – not to look out of place in an all-time context, given your particular game plan, etc. I think people get that argument – it's just that they don't agree with your basic assessment of the player. They don't think he has done enough to merit being fielded at this stage, in this particular draft, regardless of the particular tactical arguments you offer.
 
I think Pat has nailed it above. What separates Pogba from the rest of the midfielders on the park is that proven ability to run games at the highest level. Keane did it (United and Ireland from 1994-2003), Varela did it (1950 World Cup and his rock-solid CV with Penarol), Di Stefano and Hierro (key in 8 Champions League wins), Redondo did it (influential in 2 CL wins) and Platini's record doesn't need restated here. Pogba simply lacks those big-game credentials.

Considering this in terms of attributes, it's not that his technical ability is lacking - in fact his touch and long-range-striking technique certainly cut it at this level. It's not that his physicality is lacking either, he's a dynamic and imposing lad. It's more about the sometime tendency to be less influential in the bigger European games, which comes down to more abstract attibutes such as decision making, anticipation, positioning, leadership. Basically a lot of the stuff that comes with experience, which all of the other midfielders have in spades, but which he may well acquire in the coming seasons and which would make him a more than legitimate choice in this kind of company.
 
Let's talk about stats:

Pogba - 23 years - has scored 39 goals in his career
Robson - player of WBA at the age of 23 years - did score 30 goals (including 3 goals with WBA in the 2nd division).
Zidane - at the age of 23 - was playing the Intertoto Cup with Bordeaux.

Of course, I don't see any similarities between these 3 players.

Of course, Pogba has to be judged based on his past performances and not on his potential.
I'm sorry, but you have to read my message again before posting, how is your post relevant again?

I'm not comparing 23 year old Pogba with 23 year old Robson. I'm comparing 23 year old Pogba with peak Robson, because this is the nature of the draft, and that's the reason why Pogba, whose peak is obviously yet to come, is such a bad choice - because he is compared to the best players of all-time at their peak, while he is just a 23-year old boy (immensely talented though)
 
I think Pat has nailed it above. What separates Pogba from the rest of the midfielders on the park is that proven ability to run games at the highest level. Keane did it (United and Ireland from 1994-2003), Varela did it (1950 World Cup and his rock-solid CV with Penarol), Di Stefano and Hierro (key in 8 Champions League wins), Redondo did it (influential in 2 CL wins) and Platini's record doesn't need restated here. Pogba simply lacks those big-game credentials.

Considering this in terms of attributes, it's not that his technical ability is lacking - in fact his touch and long-range-striking technique certainly cut it at this level. It's not that his physicality is lacking either, he's a dynamic and imposing lad. It's more about the sometime tendency to be less influential in the bigger European games, which comes down to more abstract attibutes such as decision making, anticipation, positioning, leadership. Basically a lot of the stuff that comes with experience, which all of the other midfielders have in spades, but which he may well acquire in the coming seasons and which would make him a more than legitimate choice in this kind of company.

Yeah I agree that the reasoning you mentioned are why people are voting against him. The point I'm trying to make is you don't have 4 midfielders running the game. Platini will be running my offensive side with Hierro/Baresi running the defensive side. There is no need for Pogba to run the game. He is in the team for his energy and all round attributes as well as his moments of magic. All of which you just stated he possesses.
 
I'm sorry, but you have to read my message again before posting, how is your post relevant again?

I'm not comparing 23 year old Pogba with 23 year old Robson. I'm comparing 23 year old Pogba with peak Robson, because this is the nature of the draft, and that's the reason why Pogba, whose peak is obviously yet to come, is such a bad choice - because he is compared to the best players of all-time at their peak, while he is just a 23-year old boy (immensely talented though)

I would just add, for me its not even important that Pogba didnt reached his peak, its because his current ability is not good enough. If he was a much better player but also had more room for improvement(Neymar for example) i would be okay with the pick.
 
That's just harsh and I don't agree at all.

280 games for Juventus and 70 games for Italy...and you boil it down to a couple where he man-marked famous opponents, and that soo short ones? Yes, it was his speciality and they did employ it but just considering him just a man-marker and a not so good CB otherwise is a bad disservice to him.
I'm sorry, but I never said that he is a "not so good" CB. But Brio and Collovati were introduced to Juve/Italy defensive line because Scirea and Gentile, as great as they were, lacked (collectively) aerial presence. So if you're going to play Gentile and Stam, for example, it'll be okay, or if you're going to play Baresi - Gentile against Romario or someone similar, but they are up against one of the most physically and aerially imposing striker of all time and I certainly would've liked someone more suited to this particular type of forwards next to Baresi, while Gentile is the perfect man to take care of Ronaldinho (better than Lahm for this particular occasion in my opinion)
 
I'm sorry, but you have to read my message again before posting, how is your post relevant again?

I'm not comparing 23 year old Pogba with 23 year old Robson. I'm comparing 23 year old Pogba with peak Robson, because this is the nature of the draft, and that's the reason why Pogba, whose peak is obviously yet to come, is such a bad choice - because he is compared to the best players of all-time at their peak, while he is just a 23-year old boy (immensely talented though)

I actually agree with you here. However he's not playing against Robson and if Robson was put in place of Pogba those moments of magic would be lost. Sure he'd add defensive steel that's not in doubt. He'd also add more of a goal threat in or around the box. But none of those things are missing from the team assembled already. Ronaldo/Batistuta/Platini would grab more than enough goals around the box. I need that long range striker of a ball to offer a different threat.

The extra defensive stability offered also isn't needed due to Cole Hierro Baresi surrounding the space Pogba is operating in and me clarifying how if Cole gets best I would negate the threat.
 
I'm sorry, but you have to read my message again before posting, how is your post relevant again?

I'm not comparing 23 year old Pogba with 23 year old Robson. I'm comparing 23 year old Pogba with peak Robson, because this is the nature of the draft, and that's the reason why Pogba, whose peak is obviously yet to come, is such a bad choice - because he is compared to the best players of all-time at their peak, while he is just a 23-year old boy (immensely talented though)

I'm not here to defend the choice of Pogba.

If you want to compare Robson (peak) with Pogba (peak), I'm not sure the number of goals scored per season is the best criteria :)
 
Di Stefano is the most dominant out of the top-5 GOATs and all the play goes through him, no other way around it, he is the center of everything.

With your trio only Ronaldinho will be making off the ball runs to an extent and there will be conflict between Di Stefano and Garrincha because their game was so self-centered.

I don't agree with any of that really harms - I think we disagree on Di Stefano most significantly and I don't see any difference between him and Cruyff in terms of their dominance in attacking phases and influence on the game. If anything I think Cruyff would be the more problematic to fit in alongside other elite forwards, but even then I think its an issue which gets bizarrely blown out of proportion in these draft games.

If you were looking at a side with Di Stefano as a #10, Cruyff as a #9 and Messi on the right wing then quite clearly we would have some real overlap there and it would be a fair view to suggest that they aren't getting the best out of each other as teammates.

Here though you have an elite left winger, an elite attacking midfielder and an elite right winger. Them all being devastating individuals doesn't pose any problems in itself - as I suggested in my previous post having ability dispersed throughout the team would IMO often elevate individual performances as opposed to limiting them.

I would get the point more if we were talking about three players who were the possession and passing hubs of their respective sides but that clearly isn't the case here - Di Stefano is the only one of the three who took responsibility for collecting the ball from deep and instigating attacks. The fact that Garrincha stayed wide and looked to beat fullbacks 1 vs 1 doesn't seem a problem to me in that sense - he's being asked to do a completely different thing to Di Stefano (the same way Didi was, or Xavi was to Ronaldinho).

I'm not sure which player I'm disagreeing with you more on here - probably Di Stefano who sounds like a selfish Xavi when that's nothing like the reality. Di Stefano was ultimately a fantastic technical player and wonderful passer which inevitably meant that the majority of the play was instigating by him - this is obviously heightened when you take his ferocious determination, winning mentality and leadership into account.

It's this latter aspect that is relevant here and I wouldn't disagree that those leadership qualities that Di Stefano was famous for inevitably meant that he exerted a level of control on every member on the team (something Varela and Keane both did as well by the way).

But he certainly wasn't a greedy or a selfish player - he was still a passer and would have no problems feeding balls out wide to Garrincha or Ronaldinho. Any other view in that sense is absurd IMO - particularly given how selfless Di Stefano was and his reputation as the consummate team player.

“He was my favourite player, and what I most loved about Di Stefano was everything he did he did for the team.”
Johan Cruyff

 
It's over really not much point discussing anything else.
 
BTW, I'm still surprised that Cole is deemed a player who can deal with Garrincha. We had him in another All-Time draft, and had to drop him in favor of Briegel (slightly different type of player, more 'expansive' - a physical machine) because Cole looks out of sorts at this elevated level (where teams often have the likes of Maldini/Vogts/Djalma/Zanetti/Alberto as fullbacks and Facchetti/Nilton/Brehme/Cafu/Carlos as wingbacks) - and the selection was purely for the tactical purpose of a potential Cristiano matchup vs diarm.

IMO, he could slow Garrincha down. Frustrate him? Perhaps, yeah, I can buy that, to an extent - but I'm never going to buy the argument that Ashley Cole can deal with Garrincha/Best level wingers, nay contortionists - especially in terms of their style of play (which was opposed to that of Cristiano). If that were the case, he'd be seen in a lot more all-time matchups as a relatively cheap acquisition. Hmm, maybe I'm the only one that feels that way, though, and that's fair enough, I suppose.

Also, reg. the Hierro drops in to thwart Nordahl wrinkle, and who will score goals for the team - that does leave the best player on the pitch relatively unmarked:



Real-Madrid-1960.png


307 goals in 396 games for Real Madrid.
56 goals in the European Cup (a record that stood for about half a century until Raúl broke it).
7 goals in the European Cup finals (level with Puskás).
5 Pichichi titles for highest scorer in La Liga through 6 seasons - 1954 to 1959. For reference, Cristiano has 3.

And lest we forget, he's arguably a Top 3 scorer in football history (in terms of big match effectiveness) - behind only Der Bomber:

1 Gerd Müller - Germany - 1963-1981 - 16 - 51
2 Alfredo Di Stéfano - Argentina - 1945-1966 - 19 45
3 Pelé - Brazil - 1956-1977 - 13 - 40.5
 
BTW, I'm still surprised that Cole is deemed a player who can deal with Garrincha. We had him in another All-Time draft, and had to drop him in favor of Briegel (slightly different type of player, more 'expansive' - a physical machine) because Cole looks out of sorts at this elevated level (where teams often have the likes of Maldini/Vogts/Djalma/Zanetti/Alberto as fullbacks and Facchetti/Nilton/Brehme/Cafu/Carlos as wingbacks) - and the selection was purely for the tactical purpose of a potential Cristiano matchup vs diarm.

IMO, he could slow Garrincha down. Frustrate him? Perhaps, yeah, I can buy that, to an extent - but I'm never going to buy the argument that Ashley Cole can deal with Garrincha/Best level wingers, nay contortionists - especially in terms of their style of play (which was opposed to that of Cristiano). If that were the case, he'd be seen in a lot more all-time matchups as a relatively cheap acquisition. Hmm, maybe I'm the only one that feels that way, though, and that's fair enough, I suppose.

Also, reg. the Hierro drops in to thwart Nordahl wrinkle, and who will score goals for the team - that does leave the best player on the pitch relatively unmarked:



Real-Madrid-1960.png


307 goals in 396 games for Real Madrid.
56 goals in the European Cup (a record that stood for about half a century until Raúl broke it).
7 goals in the European Cup finals (level with Puskás).
5 Pichichi titles for highest scorer in La Liga through 6 seasons - 1954 to 1959. For reference, Cristiano has 3.

And lest we forget, he's arguably a Top 3 scorer in football history (in terms of big match effectiveness) - behind only Der Bomber:

1 Gerd Müller - Germany - 1963-1981 - 16 - 51
2 Alfredo Di Stéfano - Argentina - 1945-1966 - 19 45
3 Pelé - Brazil - 1956-1977 - 13 - 40.5


You're reading the Hierro dropping into defence thing slightly wrong. He will only drop in as the ball gets towards the byline. No reason he can't mark Di Stefano during normal play. Sure this means you can toss the ball in from deeper positions with Hierro being there or could work the ball back to Stefano after going wide but this would simply mean Hierro steps back up as the ball works back.
 
Crap, deadline's over. Couldn't sub Zizinho in time, and never got to use him in a previous abandoned match, which is a shame because he's a really unsung legend of the sport (and the crown jewel of the 1950 Brazil national team that scored goals for fun).

Anyway, Additional Profile

ZIZINHO


220px-Zizinho_1944_flamengo.jpg


Brazil Player of the 20th Century: 4th, behind Zico
South American Player of the 20th Century: 10th, behind Elías Figueroa
Copa América All Time Top Scorer: 17 goals in 28 matches
Campeonato Carioca Top Scorer: 1950
100 World Cup Heroes: 39
IFFHS Brazil Team of the 20th Century
FIFA World Cup Golden Ball: 1950
FIFA World Cup Team of the Tournament: 1950
Brazil Football Hall of Fame

FIFA World Cup Runner-up: 1950
Copa América Champion: 1949
Copa América Runner-up: 1945, 1946, 1953, 1957
Campeonato Pan-Americano: 1952
Campeonato Paulista: 1957
Rocca Cup: 1945
Copa Rio Branco: 1950
Taça do Atlântico: 1946
Taça Oswaldo Cruz: 1955, 1957
Torneio do Rio de Janeiro: 1945, 1957
Torneio do Porto Alegre: 1957

A transcendent legend of the game, Zizinho is considered by most to be the best Brazil player before the advent of Pelé, who named him as his main inspiration (a sentiment echoed by Didi and Gérson) and the best player that he has ever seen. A complete attacker, he was at his best as a central aligning inside-right, though his playing style were more of an attacking midfielder than the striker. He was capable of playing anywhere from central midfield to the right flank and a center forward position - dictating the play, dribbling with venom, and scoring at a proficient rate (his career GPG ratio is around 1 in 2). Mestre (Master) Ziza's (as he was affectionately called) finest hour came in 1950 - at the World Cup that was hosted by Brazil. He shone brighter than any other star in the tournament, producing a legendary performance against Yugoslavia (considered by many Brazilians as the best ever performance in the Seleção shirt) and winning the Golden Ball (best player of the World Cup) award. Sadly, Ghiggia’s goal for Uruguay in the final meant that any achievements from this mundial was overshadowed by the loss. And Zizinho, instead of becoming a nation’s hero for winning them the first World Cup, and securing the place in the highest pantheon, became one of the more underrated gems. Nevertheless, when IFFHS conducted a poll on the greatest player of the century, he was voted as the 4th best Brazilian footballer and the 10th best South American player of the 20th century.

Credit: @harms, @Annahnomoss

The Italian journalist, Giordano Fatori, while covering the 1950 WC for the “Gazetta dello Sport” had occasion to write - “The football of Zizinho reminds me of Da Vinci painting something rare.”

Seeing as how Thomas Soares da Silva went from being called by the dimunitive "Zizinho," to the regal "Mestre Ziza" (Master Ziza) for his displays during the mid to late 1940s, it was a fitting description.

At 18 years of age, Zizinho’s life ambition was to play for America of Rio Janeiro. However, his frail physique turned off the club’s technical staff. Broken hearted, he then went to try out for Flamengo as a last resort. These amateur tests occurred against stars of the pro team. Early on the great Leonidas da Silva (no relation) picked-up an injury, and the coach Flavio Costa, called upon the teenager to replace him among the pros.

After an exhibition of football still commented upon today, Costa calmly advised him to, “Get a hair cut and come back tomorrow.” Thus began the career of one of the most technically gifted and refined players in Brasilian and world football.

At 19 he was absolute starter on a stellar Flamengo squad that included Domingos da Guia, Fausto and Leonidas. He pulled the strings on the legendary Carioca championship three-peat of 1942,43,44. He, along with those other craque black players, helped transform a formerly elitist club into one of the most popular in Brasil.

He left Flamengo ten years later, deeply hurt for having been traded without consultation. In between the 1949-1950, while widely recognized as the best player in the country, he found out that his pass had been sold to Bangu for a sum then considered a small fortune. In a sign of different times, it is said that he signed his Bangu contract without reading it, stating to the club president, “If you, Sir, paid such a sum for my pass, it must be because you appreciate my game.” In the first game aginst his old team, he exerted his revenge, imposing the most lopsided loss in Flamengo’s history (0-6).

Seven years later, at the age of 37, he moved to Paulista championsip to play for FC Sao Paulo, where he also became an idol, helping to winning the championhip in his last year.

Curiously, after three years retired from the game, he was asked to play one game with Audax Italiano of Chile by admirers in team management. He accepted the gracious invite, but instead of one game, played the whole season. His last as player.

Selecao
Zizinho was the star of the Selecao during the decade of the 1940s. He played a total of 53 games, scoring 30 goals. He won the Copa Americal / sul-americano of 1949 and was was universally acclaimed as the best player of the 1950 WC, despite the loss to Uruguay in the final game.

Willy Meisl of London’s “World Sports” wrote the following after the Spain game in WC 1950. “We are not talking simply of a great player, one of the many great players found in diverse parts of the world. This is a genius. A man who possesses all the qualities that could be wished for by a professional in order to approximate perfection.”

The Spanish referee Pedro Escartin in a book about the 1950 WC (title “"Lo de Brasil fué así...".) captioned Zizinho's photo simply, “Zizinho ou A Arte [Zizinho or The Art].”

After that 1950 loss Zizinho was so depressed that he thought of abandoning football. But he later admits that it was only by continuing to exhibit his skills on the pitch that he was able to “free” himself from that letdown. As he once said, “It is absurd the attempts made to place the blame for that defeat on some of my teammates, as they did with Barbosa. No one should ever be condemned individually for that game.”

In 1954, despite the whole country wanting him to be part of the Selecao, the coach, Zeze Moreira left him off the team. This caused a national debate. Could it be that Zeze only wished to have one man pulling the strings (Didi)? The reasons to this day are not clear, though Zizinho himself felt that he was blackballed by the writer Jose Lins do Rego, who was the head of the Brasilian delegation of the 1953 Sul-Americano in Peru, and one of the technical directors in the 1954 selections.

Zinzinho. “I returned to the Selecao in 1953 [after the 1950 loss], but had some issues with the head of the Brasilian delegation at the Sul-Americano [Copa America predecessor], the writer Jose Lins do Rego. First, the players asked me to speak with him because the quotas ($) were half of what they were the previous year. Afterwards, since I was injured, he wanted me to take an injection to play the final. I would never do this. I often played hurt, but never took injections. When Brasil lost, he wrote in his column in the journal “O Cruzeiro” that we players were mercenaries and fainthearted. I had a weekly column in “Diario da Noite” and responded by saying that I knew quite a bit about the inner workings of the selecao.”

Could it be that thanks to politics – always present in human endeavours - European audiences were thus deprived of seeing Zizinho face the Mighty Magyars?

As for 1958, he was then 37 years old, playing his last football in Brasil. He was selected 4 days before the Selecao embarked for Sweden. “I couldn’t accept. I wasn’t a youngster anymore. It would not have been right with the players already training. I’m just sad that I never realized my wish to play alongside Pele”, Zizinho commented in an interview in 2000.

Idol
Distefano was in awe of Pedernera, Maradona looked-up to Rivelino, Cryuff emulated DiStefano, and Pele and Didi both idolized Master Ziza. In Zizinho, Pele saw the mirror image of what he wanted to become, a complete footballer.

In Pele’s words when asked about his idol during his playing days with Santos, “Zizinho was the complete article. Played as well in the midfield as he did in the attack. He was offensive, and new how to mark. He wasn’t afraid to get ugly either [reference to the often physical and intimidating nature of games at the time].”

Indeed history records that Zizinho dribbled like few others, created like even fewer, and was the complete footballer.
 
Well, this has been a tad anti-climatic. Feel the scoreline is a bit harsh on @P-Nut0712. You had a cracking team, mate! And kudos for sticking to your guns, instead of caving in. :)
 
And lest we forget, he's arguably a Top 3 scorer in football history (in terms of big match effectiveness) - behind only Der Bomber:

1 Gerd Müller - Germany - 1963-1981 - 16 - 51
2 Alfredo Di Stéfano - Argentina - 1945-1966 - 19 45
3 Pelé - Brazil - 1956-1977 - 13 - 40.5
What do those numbers mean Invictus?
 
Yeah @P-Nut0712 is a warrior like his players :)

Too much focus on Pogba who had to be considered as a 'secondary player' - one of the 2 box-to-box - in the strategy of P-Nut.

The key players were:

Baresi to lead the defence.
Cole & Lahm to animate the flanks
Platini to make the game
Ronaldo & Batistuta to score
 
What do those numbers mean Invictus?
Yeah, sorry, Gio - those numbers do seem odd as a standalone entity, void of context. It's part of a Guardian article where they ranked 'big game goalscorers' (not sure we're allowed to post 'em in full from there, or was it the Telegraph that took issue with their stuff being ctrl+V'd?). Anyway: link.
 
Yeah, sorry, Gio - those numbers do seem odd as a standalone entity, void of context. It's part of a Guardian article where they ranked 'big game goalscorers' (not sure we're allowed to post 'em in full from there, or was it the Telegraph that took issue with their stuff being ctrl+V'd?). Anyway: link.
Ah interesting stuff, useful analysis.
 
Yeah the game disappointed me and not just because I lost. The full discussion became about Pogba when really he's another piece of the puzzle and not one of the key men. Thought people would have been able to analyse the full team and not get stuck on one player but everyone just got too caught up.

By the time the Pogba discussion was over the game was won for you really @Invictus

As Downcast says they were the key players and all would have posed a threat to you winning the game never mind the crazy scoreline.

As I've said previously I like the niche tactics and won't stop using them. Just hope that in future it's something people look out for when judging my teams as it's usually built with a rarely seen tactic in mind to keep each draft fresh for myself.
 
Thats the thing with diamond formations and why i hate them, almost every position there is crucial and even a slight mistake can cost you, so yes - Pogba was a key man specially because of the quality that invictus and theon had in their team. Di Stefano and Redondo in the middle and Garrincha on the wing.
But dont think its only Pogba that lost you the game, they just have a fantastic team with very little weak points while you had Gentile in back 4, fullbacks that are not suited for diamond, Oblak on goal....
 
As I've said previously I like the niche tactics and won't stop using them. Just hope that in future it's something people look out for when judging my teams as it's usually built with a rarely seen tactic in mind to keep each draft fresh for myself.

I like niche tactics myself, and I'm usually sympathetic towards managers who experiment rather than replicate (so to speak). I think you'll find it's an opinion splitting part of these drafts, though – many do not seem to appreciate elements that aren't “proven” in one way or another.

Anyway, it's obvious that your “philosophy” will be much likelier to work – in terms of convincing people you'd win, I mean – in...well, in anything but an all-time draft, really.
 
Haha I get what you are saying @Šjor Bepo however there are ways to make certain positions less important as I did with my tactics. And @Chesterlestreet I suppose it's down to people relying on what they know instead of invisiging how something may actually work.

Ah well have fun picking the bones of my team apart for the next round guys I'll be back in the next draft and I'm sure some of the same arguments will be brought back up :wenger:
 
I'm sorry, but I never said that he is a "not so good" CB. But Brio and Collovati were introduced to Juve/Italy defensive line because Scirea and Gentile, as great as they were, lacked (collectively) aerial presence. So if you're going to play Gentile and Stam, for example, it'll be okay, or if you're going to play Baresi - Gentile against Romario or someone similar, but they are up against one of the most physically and aerially imposing striker of all time and I certainly would've liked someone more suited to this particular type of forwards next to Baresi, while Gentile is the perfect man to take care of Ronaldinho (better than Lahm for this particular occasion in my opinion)

Where is this weakness against headers coming from? Yes, Gentile had procen success against quick, dribbly AM's...but I certainly don't see that as evidence that he'll struggle against physical strikers. He did play against Kempes, Kalle and others too, right? Can you link me to some articles where that was portrayed as his weakness?
 
Where is this weakness against headers coming from? Yes, Gentile had procen success against quick, dribbly AM's...but I certainly don't see that as evidence that he'll struggle against physical strikers. He did play against Kempes, Kalle and others too, right? Can you link me to some articles where that was portrayed as his weakness?
Not a weakness but it wasn't one of his strengths either. I just think that in an all-time draft you can have a more suited player here and put Gentile on Ronaldinho (in my opinion he is much better suited to deal with him than Lahm for example). Let's agree to disagree, I'm a little tired of this argument)