Sancho and a top CB should be the top priority.If we can get rid of the deadwood on top of this the it’s a bonus.
The deadwood and the backups
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Yeah Grealish has played on the right side but not since he was at Notts County,however feel he could offer us cover in a variety of different attacking positions
Just a case of looking at the opponent and seeing what position would suit best or might even be a case of bringing him off the bench if it is required.
Short term yes Greenwood is certainly a good back up for whoever we sign on the right hopefully being Sancho, I do want to see him playing through the middle though personally.
Nothing to add on James. I was so happy when we got rid of Fellaini a player I really hated just as he really wasnt a united player in terms of style or quality. I now have those same feelings for Lindelof and James. In Lindelofs case I think injuries have helped him, but neither of these players in my opinion should be anywhere near starting so regularly for this club.
We do have a huge squad, agree with you a lot of it is deadwood though. I think there will be 3/4 players sold and 2/3 players bought. I think there should be twice as many leaving with 4 players bought and a couple of youngsters promoted. My fear is we will make a couple of very good purchases this summer but still be left a couple of players short and too many players till here shouldnt be.....a better side but still fighting for the top four next season though I see us and CHelsea as almost ceretainly 3rd and 4th next year if transfers happen as I expect
Yeah, I'm not advocating for James to be starting. But I do like him as a squad player. I also wouldn't mind Lindelof as a squad player, but if we can get decent money for him I'd rather we sell him. Speaking of Fellaini, I think I never appreciated him more than when we played Brighton with the weak pairing of Lindelof-Bailly, and he sat in front of them and protected them like a father his little kids. Took care of probably every single long ball by himself. Was always professional. I agree, not the type of player we should have signed, but I will remember him fondly despite the ill fit.
Why is there always the excuse no one will buy our players because of wages. If lets say we want to sell Jones. 4 mill contract x 3 years = 12 mill. So we offer to offset half of his wages and lose 6 mill on the sale. So what? We could then buy another player on less wages and offset his wages by a few mill over 3 years. Do we really need to hang on to players for the sake of 6 mill or so? Only Sanchez is more complicated but I argue even if someone pays 75,000 of his 350,000 salary we would still get back 12 mill or so over 3 years. Yeah we loose 40/50 mill but we will loose that anyway
I Think thee club has slowly got rid of under performing players and I think they will try to move on Jones, Rojo, Sanchez, Lingard and Mata. Not sure we would get a lot of money for them, but I would like to see some new additions to make sure there is quality and competition across the squad. Maybe some of the following: Ben White (CB), Brooks (RW/AM), Soumare (Midfield) Van De Beek (midfield) Jimenez (striker). I think Dalot and Perriera will be given another year to prove themselves. But Ole has been pretty ruthless in moving on players and I don't think he will shy to get rid of academy graduates who don't pull their weight.
I agree with alot that you said but 300+ in sales ? I'd love to see that break down
Someone else questioned that I responded to earlier. I did say over £300m potentially, but roughly again
DeGea £50m
jOnes £5m
Rojo £5m
Smalling £15m
Bailly £25m
Lindelof £25m
Dalot £20m
Matic £15m
Pogba £90m
Perreira £15m
Lingard £15m
Thats £280m
We would be lucky to get 200 million for them but it's pointless because there's no hope we will sell all them . Thanks for giving me your opinion though
I don't mean to be rude or anything but for me personally your estimations are way off.
What fecking club would pay £25 million for Bailly? He has barely played in 3 seasons now and is injury-prone and also relies a lot on his physical attributes. Not a good combo. Would be a terrible investment at that price combined with his salary request. That's why he's still here.
Why would we sell Lindelöf for that money - or at all? He's young, stays healthy and can cover at right back. He is a solid squad player at worst. No reason to sell.
Dalot? £20m.. Would you pay that for him if you were managing a club in look for a fullback and what club do you expect to? Don't see many in the market.. especially these days we live in. Actually, how is Dalot almost worth as much as Lindelöf? Bailly as much as Lindelöf?
Matic £15m? Why would we sell him for that sort of money when he's been good for us this season? We need to add a defensive midfielder.. not get rid of basically the only true one we have at this point who just so happens to also be a very experienced player - which is something that shouldn't be underrated through our transition. Also coming off a very good season.
De Gea.. Not just yet as far as I'm concerned. Henderson and him should compete with eachother for a season before we make our decision. De Gea is still only turning 30. He could use someone that will push him. Henderson should take that challenge upon himself. Give it a season.
Etc.
Keep in mind it's not only about their cost either. Many of these players have inflated wages and wouldn't just pack their bags, sign a new contract with a smaller club and leave. In their position they would garnish more in running out their contract, while fighting for a place in a big club while also making more money. The buying clubs would need to match their salary basically. That's why we are stuck with them. If anything I expect us to be lowballed.
Since we cant just blow 200 mill maybe we should look to bringing Smalling and Sanchez back. It will take good management by Ole to convince them to be a part of the team and to keep then happy but thats his job. Smalling and Sanchez has to be better than relying on Lingard/Periera/Mata and CB we have very few options except a crocked Bailly. Yes ideally we should move on and buy replacements but we just cant. Then we could use the cash on Sancho and Grealish or whoever.
In my opinion, FIFA valuations. Would be surprised if we got £20m for the lot. The more valuable thing for us is clearing the wages, i’d let them go for nominal fees.
Pretty sure Smalling alone is going to bring us €20 million in total.
no way. Not in this Summers market. Just no way any club is going to sign an ageing mediocre player from a club who blatantly dont want him for that sum. Especially an italian one
He's played very well in Italy. I'd imagine we'll sell him for around £15-18m
good for you.
There’s already rumours he will go for another loan with an obligation to buy for 15 million euros, which on top of two loan fees seems reasonable.
If we were to sell him in the PL we'd get something close to £20m because he is a pretty good defender. Any club out of the top six would be foolish to at least not consider him.
A bit depressing seeing so many people asking for 5+ players to be sold after this season... I think many here do not understand how squad dynamics and morale work. It is actually quite similar to any other profession where you have teams and members that rely on each other.
If you sack a huge part of the people you'll get a negative effect on morale and dynamics simply because the remaining become insecure and you inevitably lose experience. The players most have written to be sold are not problematic ones (with one obvious exception) and some of them are well liked and a positive character within the squad.
Then removing 5+ senior players will require replacing them. I see some suggest using Ching, Garner, Levitt, Mengi, which is all fine but a few bad games and their psyche will be destroyed. Additionally, these young guns need games and are very likely to go out on loan (at least some of them).
So, buying then? Adding many new players (and big money signings too, let's not kid ourselves) is as disruptive (if not more) as culling the squad. The end result will be a fractioned player base, fear and negativity looking over the survivors and overall disruption of the harmony we are experiencing at the moment.
I agree that some of the "deadwood" are most likely not good enough anymore but we can't move them all. Young players need the experienced ones to help them make the passage. Remember, this is not a video game. You're dealing with real people like you and me. They have their own emotions, their fears and aspirations. I'm sure all of them want to be successful (I'd argue they already are), some will not be, that's inevitable. But we can't hire and fire like Manchester United is a burger place. Continuity is extremely important in team sports.
If you sack a huge part of the people you'll get a negative effect on morale and dynamics simply because the remaining become insecure and you inevitably lose experience. The players most have written to be sold are not problematic ones (with one obvious exception) and some of them are well liked and a positive character within the squad.
Then removing 5+ senior players will require replacing them. I see some suggest using Ching, Garner, Levitt, Mengi, which is all fine but a few bad games and their psyche will be destroyed. Additionally, these young guns need games and are very likely to go out on loan (at least some of them).
So, buying then? Adding many new players (and big money signings too, let's not kid ourselves) is as disruptive (if not more) as culling the squad. The end result will be a fractioned player base, fear and negativity looking over the survivors and overall disruption of the harmony we are experiencing at the moment.
I agree that some of the "deadwood" are most likely not good enough anymore but we can't move them all. Young players need the experienced ones to help them make the passage. Remember, this is not a video game. You're dealing with real people like you and me. They have their own emotions, their fears and aspirations. I'm sure all of them want to be successful (I'd argue they already are), some will not be, that's inevitable. But we can't hire and fire like Manchester United is a burger place. Continuity is extremely important in team sports.
This is closer to what I have in mind but I am worried about our midfield options, we only have Mata on the bench should we need to make changes for creativity or lose one of Pogba/Bruno or both to injury for a sustained period. Pereira and Lingard aren't good enough so something needs to be done on that.
Matic would be good in rotation with the new DM and McTominay is good for the box to box role if Pogba is out but Fred and McTominay would be competing for the role of B2B midfielder. I think we can sell Fred and bring in another creative midfielder as cover for Pogba - something which will leave us with better cover should we ever lose either Pogba and Fernandes for sustained periods.
I think it is more of a disruption when half your players are trying to be a great team then the backups come in and you start loosing. Any team even a company team hate it when when of their team members are not pulling their weight. There is only so much carrying of team members you can take and even if they are the nicest people all you want is management to get rid of them. We could carry maybe one or two. Especially youngsters as long as they are trying. Or a player that is just out of form. But we have so many players that have dragged us down for years. The only thing stopping United is money. If Ole could sell them all and get good replacements then he would do it in a heartbeat. And so would any other manager, owner, tea lady, fan or even player who is sick of carrying them.
well, if its tangible for 7 clubs to more or less smash their transfer record on Mike Smalling then yes, i suppose they should consider him
If we can have one big signing to replace Lingard, Pereira & Mata, would be massive. And a quality backup to compete with Pogba and Bruno too.
Also questions as to how our defence looks if Maguire ever gets injured.
Also questions as to how our defence looks if Maguire ever gets injured.
The notion these players aren't even trying is based on nothing but assumptions. In the end, the manager assesses his options and decides who stays and who goes. I trust Ole's judgement completely. And I also wrote that I do not disagree that some of the players are probably not good enough. I disagree with getting rid of 5+ players in one "summer" window.
If you think gutting a whole team and replacing them with new, unknown players, is a guarantee for success, I don't know what to tell you. For me such a thought is fundamentally wrong.
Seems likely to me that we'll get about 12-15M pounds for Smalling.
We ought to sell Lingard, Pereira, Jones, Rojo and Sanchez as well.
I very much doubt we'll get much at all for Jones, Rojo and Sanchez. Maybe 5-10M for Jones because I mean, he is an English international centre back, someone will rate him. 4-8M for Rojo and nothing for Sanchez, just clearing his wages.
Lingard I reckon we can get 10-15M. Pereira maybe 8-9M?
12M (Smalling) + 8M (Jones) + 5M (Rojo) is 25M pounds for the 3 defenders, ignoring the significant amount of money we'd free up on our wage bill. 12M for Lingard and 8M for Pereira would be another 20M pounds. Sanchez is apparently on 18.2M pounds a year. So him leaving would save us nearly 36.5 million in wages over the next 2 seasons.
Including all the transfer fees + only Sanchez's wages freed up, selling these 6 players would leave us 80M pounds better off. I think I'm being pretty reasonable about the fees too. I said 12M for Smalling so that it lines up evenly with Jones to equal 20M, but really I think we'll get 15M for Smalling. This is approximately the amount I am consistently hearing about. As for the rest, I have simply guessed what they'd be worth. I may well be underestimating how much some of these guys are worth. Its a bit harder to say though in these COVID times.
We ought to sell Lingard, Pereira, Jones, Rojo and Sanchez as well.
I very much doubt we'll get much at all for Jones, Rojo and Sanchez. Maybe 5-10M for Jones because I mean, he is an English international centre back, someone will rate him. 4-8M for Rojo and nothing for Sanchez, just clearing his wages.
Lingard I reckon we can get 10-15M. Pereira maybe 8-9M?
12M (Smalling) + 8M (Jones) + 5M (Rojo) is 25M pounds for the 3 defenders, ignoring the significant amount of money we'd free up on our wage bill. 12M for Lingard and 8M for Pereira would be another 20M pounds. Sanchez is apparently on 18.2M pounds a year. So him leaving would save us nearly 36.5 million in wages over the next 2 seasons.
Including all the transfer fees + only Sanchez's wages freed up, selling these 6 players would leave us 80M pounds better off. I think I'm being pretty reasonable about the fees too. I said 12M for Smalling so that it lines up evenly with Jones to equal 20M, but really I think we'll get 15M for Smalling. This is approximately the amount I am consistently hearing about. As for the rest, I have simply guessed what they'd be worth. I may well be underestimating how much some of these guys are worth. Its a bit harder to say though in these COVID times.
Well Gomes has left now and Chong hasnt shown hes anywhere near good enough when he has had a chance. Agree with selling Mata and lingard though. Along with Periera Rojo and Jones. Dont think Sanchez will move as he is earning a fortune doing nothing here. Smalling might go but could also see him coming back from Italy with no one buying him.
DeGea 50m ... May get that
Dalot 25m... Reckon you may get 15 mill
Rojo 5m... At a stretch 5-6m
Jones 10m... No way would anyone pay that for an injury prone player like Jones. Probably have to let go on a free
Smalling 15m... I read Roma offered £12/13mill in Jan but didnt come back with a bigger offer when it was turned down
Lindelof 25m... 15 mill tops
Pogba 90m... Depends how bad RM PSG would want him. Can actually see him stopping now.
Perreira 10m... 3-4 mill tops. Will probably go abroad
Lingard 15m... 5-6 mill might get a Newcastle Everton interested
James 15m... Utd wont sell him for a couple of seasons will give him time to see if he can improve.
Sanchez 5m... We wont get shut of him even if he is given away. No one will pay his full wages. Can see him going on loan and we stumping up £250 grand a week to supplement him again.
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Roma offered around £12/13 mill it was turned down by Woody beginning of the year and they didnt come back with a bigger offer
pretty much my thoughts. Constantly see lists like: Rojo 15m, Mata 15m, lingard 40m etc etc where people like to fantasise that they could sell all the crap in our squad for 150 million then sign a dream team on a little net spend.
If you really think about it, Rojo and Jones have openly been available for years and no one has sniffed. The real value is if you sell them at nominal fees to clear the wages and get them out of the club. Why is any premier league club going to pay anything for a 27 year old attacking midfielder Lingard, who should be in the prime of his career yet has worse assist and goal stats than most of the leagues centre halves? Is someone Lower down the table really going to pay 30 million for him In the hope that they can relaunch his career? Why?
You’d go and buy Eze off QPR or Cantwell from relegated Norwich.
People last year were saying we could sell Darmian for 15m, in the end we got 1.7 or something like that?
such delusion
The fees people throw around for a potential De Gea sale baffle me. If we were to shift him now we would make very little money on him. £50 million for an out of form, 29 year old on £350k+ per week? Even if another big club needed a goalkeeper (I can’t think of any who do) then they’re not paying that sort of fee in the Covid market, knowing that we’re eager to sell with a replacement sitting waiting. Plus they wouldn’t offer him the same wages, so we end up making up the difference somehow maybe in a further reduced fee or some bonus/loyalty payment. I’m not going to pretend to know how it all works but I know your dreaming if you think we can shift him easily and walk away with a nice £50 million plus reducing the wage bill.
Same goes with Sanchez, Jones, Mata and Lingard. We are lucky if we get them clean of the wage bill.
It's really important we keep up this process. We have a lot of players who contribute nothing to us.
Immediate deadwood
Sanchez, Lingard, Periera, Jones, Rojo
Players with question marks or could be upgraded in the future
Bailly, Lindelof, Shaw, TFM (only in this list because he costs nothing compared to the others).
We should be trying to get rid of these players and replacing them from within or with free transfers/shrewed signings. I don't think we should rush anything though. A big part of it is having players that can challenge the first team.
Ryan Fraser would be a good option, he'd offer more than Lingard and Periera and is available on a free.
Immediate deadwood
Sanchez, Lingard, Periera, Jones, Rojo
Players with question marks or could be upgraded in the future
Bailly, Lindelof, Shaw, TFM (only in this list because he costs nothing compared to the others).
We should be trying to get rid of these players and replacing them from within or with free transfers/shrewed signings. I don't think we should rush anything though. A big part of it is having players that can challenge the first team.
Ryan Fraser would be a good option, he'd offer more than Lingard and Periera and is available on a free.
Bye bye and all the best. West Ham after Lingard and Jones
Sad, but so true. If they were any good we would keep them ourselves anyway. No one is going to pay top dollar for the likes of that list, maybe De Gea and Pogba aside.
Their egos are too big - I doubt they would move there. I think Lingard will go overseas to be honest
If we can get 20-25M for the two of them would be realistic.
What utter nonsense. Tell me a premiership centre back you could buy for £10m under the age of 30? JOnes is 28 years old. If ROma wont pay £15m I expect there are a host of premiership sides that would for Smalling. I know we are in different times at the moment but lets not forget Michael Keane was sold for £25m.
Also though never been a fan Lingard is an England squad player and under 30 and you think his current transfer value is £5/6M? I agree on James but we arent sellign half these players, I was just putting a lis of players there are reasons they could be sold and giving what I thought conservatilvely was there value. And nobody would pay over £4m for Perreira, seriously you are talking utter twaddle
I agree on the wage argument, that has been a big problem for a long time. I also said I wouldnt sell all these players. I was listing players that for me could be considered dead wood as they havent been great, have declined, been injured, or havent had the right attitude.
But you ask who in there right mind would pay these fees for Dalot and Bailly? We paid more than the prices I listed for the two players combined.
Dalot is still highly regarded by a lot of teams around Europe, there have been rumours of Barcelona still being interested.
Bailly I get your argument, but at the same time £25m isnt a big transfer fee for a centre back. Everton paid it for Michael Keane after all.
I agree with you on Matic, now. But go back 4/5 months before the lockdown started and I think a lot of people thought he was finished, he was woeful for a long period of time it appeared his legs had gone.
As for Lindelof. I dont get why him covering right back is even relevant. We have Bissaka, Dalot and Laird also coming through not to forget Williams can also play right back, we certainly dont need cover there. It is quite sad and ver relevant and true sadly that one of your points regarding Lindelof is "he stays healthy". I think if our other centre backs had stayed fit he wouldnt be starting, he has pretty much been our only option for a while. Maybe he is a solid "squad" player. Would he be happy with a squad role though? For me he most certainly shouldnt be starting if we are wishing to make a challenge. I really think that with our cb injury porblems and Lindelof being our main partner at the moment, investing in a new centre back should be one of our priorities.
I do agree on DeGea. Henderson I dont think is ready to start and no point recalling him yet as we have a very very good Number 2, the game the other day was the first mistake I have sen Romero do here from memory. But DeGea, we have to admit, jsut hasnt been the same keeper the last couple of years