The Argument for Giggs as our Next Manager

[Revan]

Guardiola has never managed in the Premier League and only has experience of taking over already brilliant sides in somewhat uncompetitive leagues. It would be a gamble to hire him when he's unproven at managing an underdog in a very competitive league.

That is bullshit though. Barca finished third the year before they appointed Guardiola. During his entire spell there La Liga was either first or second top league in the world. Bundesliga is the second top league in the world.

United aren't underdog in England. We can spend as much as any other club bar probably City.

 

[Invictus]

And 'prove himself' at a mid table club? That still wouldn't be good enough for you. He's doing the right thing, he has make himself an integral part of the club, he's part of the fabric of the club and with the right people around him he has the potential to manage the club.

All of what you're arguing right now has been discussed ad nauseam in this very thread. What is this even about?

And 'prove himself' at a mid table club?

Why does he necessarily have to go to an Aston Villa or Sunderland to prove himself? Why not try his hand in the Bundesliga, La Liga or Serie A? Why does he need to insulate himself in the Premier League, when some of the best managers around are well traveled? If Phil Neville can get the coaching job at Valencia, I'm sure Giggs could too given his connections with Peter Lim. Work your way up, earn your dues, that will make you gritty, give you new perspectives in newer leagues, and then demand the job on the back of your accomplishments as a manager. Mourinho did it, Klopp did it, Simeone it, Fergie did it, Hitzfeld did it, Ancelotti did it, Wenger worked in Japan before getting the Arsenal job; and it instilled a great sense of character and resilience in them. Why do we need to hand him everything on a silver platter is what I don't get. It's like handing things to a trust fund kid, when a street urchin has worked his way up to a higher level, is more experienced, and more qualified. Or prospective bosses declining to hire you, only to appoint their sons and family members while tooting the horn of equal oppurtunity. Is it really fair? Where is the sense of meritocracy in that?

 

[Cheesy]

Ancelotti has won 2 CLs with a club who spend less money than we do and Mourinho did extremely well with Porto. We're big spenders too

Yep, it's a strange criticism to make. Pretty much all good managers spend plenty of money. If Giggs was manager, we'd undoubtedly be expecting for him to spend big and make some major improvements in certain areas, in the same manner we would with managers like Ancelotti or Mourinho.

 

[fallengt]

What are you saying? There weren't many? There were? It's not bullshit, the threads are here for you to browse if you like.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/nex...ed-to-be-jose-mourinho-or-david-moyes.313181/

There weren't people saying Moyes would be a bad choice, you say?

The point is your argument doesn't picture the whole story. When United announced David Moyes as our manager , who would've wanted to be an ass and wished him fail misery on his job just to prove a point? Of course we cheered for our manager but that didn't mean deep down all of us really trusted him. Not for me.

Ditto. I'm strongly against the idea of giving Giggs a chance ( at least not until he proves that he got what it takes ) but if that happens, I'll definitely wish him best of luck.

 

[afrocentricity]

If he's able to achieve what Klopp and Simeone did than he should be given a chance at United. Klopp needed two hops to manage a top EPL club (Mainz and Dortmund). Simeone needed more (although he did achieved what he did in around 5-7 years)

I'd love to see Giggsy take the path that Ole has taken since he retired. Starting off with a smaller club and leading them to a degree of success, then taking on an English side where he has had mixed, mainly poorer, results. If Giggsy could take over a lower level Prem club and get them challenging for a Europa league spot, then he would probably be worthy of being included in the discussion of future United managers.

devilish alredy explained that. Get achievements like Simeone, Klopp or Mourinho did (before the Chelsea job).

Personally:

- Getting an Everton/Southampton type of club and then becoming a regular UCL contender should do it.
- Getting an Everton/Southampton type of club and then winning Europa League and a couple of FA/Carling Cup should do it.
- Getting a Lazio/Roma type of club and winning Serie A should do it too

To be fair, all of these are less than Simeone (with Atletico), Klopp (with BVB) and Mourinho (with Porto) did. And that should be very managable for a manager who aspires to become United manager. Especially if he is competing with the likes of Mourinho, Pep and Ancelotti who have already won multiple UCL and league trophies.

That's quite a lot, I can see why that might make you more comfortable.

Ok, I'm willing to bet the guys in charge won't need to see that from him. I reckon if they haven't already seen enough then half a season to a season in charge will give them a better idea of his Capabilities than all that would. On the other hand with all we supposedly know about Klopp and Simeone, they could end up being less suited to the job than Moyes was let alone Giggs.

Facts is I'm not trying to pretend I know it all and I'm happy to defer to the guys in charge on this one, you can bring up the Moyes appointment but they knew a whole lot less about Moyes than they do about Giggs, so I'll see what they decide come 17/18 season.

 

[afrocentricity]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/nex...ed-to-be-jose-mourinho-or-david-moyes.313181/


There weren't people saying Moyes would be a bad choice, you say?


The point is your argument doesn't picture the whole story. When United announced David Moyes as our manager , who would want to be an ass and wish him fail misery on his job? Of course we cheered for our manager but that didn't mean deep down all of us really trusted him. Not for me.


Ditto. I'm strongly against giving Giggs a chance, at least not until he proves that he got what it takes but if that happens, I'll definitely wish him best of luck.

That threads from 2010 and my point remains, you were all missing when the Cult of Moyes were rinsing anyone that dared raise any doubts about him...

Are you saying you our others kept quiet out of some kind of solidarity? Didn't post because you felt you owed it to him?

 

[Rory 7]

All of what you're arguing right now has been discussed ad nauseam in this very thread. What is this even about?

It's a thread about 'the argument for Giggs becoming our next manager'. If you are bored reading it then just stop reading it. I do agree with you the thread is becoming repetitive. The anti-Giggs posters are just repeating the same old line - 'no experience', 'prove himself', 'he's not Pep' etc.

 

[Cheesy]

Facts is I'm not trying to pretend I know it all and I'm happy to defer to the guys in charge on this one, you can bring up the Moyes appointment but they knew a whole lot less about Moyes than they do about Giggs, so I'll see what they decide come 17/18 season.

They know more about Moyes as a manager than they do about Giggs. Moyes had been a manager for over a decade: his credentials and history were already evident, as was his managerial style. They'll know plenty about Giggs as a person, player and coach, but even being a coach is massively different to being the club's manager.

 

[Minimalist]

It's a thread about 'the argument for Giggs becoming our next manager'. If you are bored reading it then just stop reading it. I do agree with you the thread is becoming repetitive. The anti-Giggs posters are just repeating the same old line - 'no experience', 'prove himself', 'he's not Pep' etc.

Well facts don't stop being facts just because some grow tired of them.

There's nothing new to discuss as you say - it would be a joke of an appointment and that's that.

Ironically some of our supporters like to throw out the 'we have lost our identity' line in recent times - well for me, when you appoint someone like Ryan Fecking Giggs as your manager, that definitely is a change in our club in terms of standards.

 

[Jazz]

The comparisons with Guardiola just doesn't hold for me.

Firstly, Giggs has no personality to speak of nor most importantly - intelligence off the pitch - at least any that I can recall.

Next, say Guardiola had started off badly, I don't think it would be such a disaster for Barcelona as it would be for us in the Premier League - because let's face it, it would be easier (not easy) to haul yourself back into the top four there without too much trauma precisely because they don't have at least 6 or so teams that can challenge for those spots as we do here.

In contrast, Giggs would have to keep us in top four, appeasing not only the fans but the money people and the sponsors. Has anyone stopped to think just how much pressure is involved with that?? Giggs has no life experience outside of United - how on earth is he going to cope with all the expectations?

For those reasons, I think Giggs taking over would be a much bigger deal for us, and thereby makes the Guardiola argument redundant in my view.

You cannot be idealistic with these things. In contrast to Man City whose owners have unlimited funds due to oil - United depends on sponsors to bring that cash in. You are asking the club to risk a lot of people's livelihoods and the well-being of the club to continue building on our success, just to realise some romantic notion. That doesn't sound logical to me.

Giggs really needs to go out and show he can achieve like Simeone. If he is good, he will be able to show it anywhere he goes, so why are people afraid to see him go out and try? At least we will know better whether or not he deserves to be hired in the future.

 

[Rory 7]

Well facts don't stop being facts just because some grow tired of them.

There's nothing new to discuss as you say - it would be a joke of an appointment and that's that.

Ironically some of our supporters like to throw out the 'we have lost our identity' line in recent times - well for me, when you appoint someone like Ryan Fecking Giggs as your manager, that definitely is a change in our club in terms of standards.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Invictus]

It's a thread about 'the argument for Giggs becoming our next manager'. If you are bored reading it then just stop reading it. I do agree with you the thread is becoming repetitive. The anti-Giggs posters are just repeating the same old line - 'no experience', 'prove himself', 'he's not Pep' etc.

Got news for you mate. There are no anti-Giggs posters here. No one dislikes Giggs on an intrinsic level, they just want you to isolate his accomplishments as a player, from his credentials as a manager. Those are two very separate qualifications. And people are quite understandably wary of handing him the job, when he's not remotely as qualified as some of the other prospective candidates. That argument is based on reason and anecdotal evidence, whereas most of the appoint Giggs motion is predicated on misty eyed romanticism rather than evidence, or some remote notions of him being our Guardiola, when Pep was infact an anomaly for a job of that scale, not the ever-present norm. As to repeating the cliched lines, that's a bit rich to be fair, because those arguing in favor of his appointment are inevitably coming up with recycled tales as well.

 

[afrocentricity]

They know more about Moyes as a manager than they do about Giggs. Moyes had been a manager for over a decade: his credentials and history were already evident, as was his managerial style. They'll know plenty about Giggs as a person, player and coach, but even being a coach is massively different to being the club's manager.

As a manager elsewhere, whereas they didn't know him personally. How he really behaves, reacts, thinks... Equally as important as his CV and persona...

 

[Minimalist]

The comparisons with Guardiola just doesn't hold for me.

Firstly, Giggs has no personality to speak of nor most importantly - intelligence off the pitch - at least any that I can recall.

Next, say Guardiola had started off badly, I don't think it would be such a disaster for Barcelona as it would be for us in the Premier League - because let's face it, it would be easier (not easy) to haul yourself back into the top four there without too much trauma precisely because they don't have at least 6 or so teams that can challenge for those spots as we do here.

In contrast, Giggs would have to keep us in top four, appeasing not only the fans but the money people and the sponsors. Has anyone stopped to think just how much pressure is involved with that?? Giggs has no life experience outside of United - how on earth is he going to cope with all the expectations?

For those reasons, I think Giggs taking over would be a much bigger deal for us, and thereby makes the Guardiola argument redundant in my view.

You cannot be idealistic with these things. In contrast to Man City whose owners have unlimited funds due to oil - United depends on sponsors to bring that cash in. You are asking the club to risk a lot of people's livelihoods and the well-being of the club to continue building on our success, just to realise some romantic notion. That doesn't sound logical to me.

Giggs really needs to go out and show he can achieve like Simeone. If he is good, he will be able to show it anywhere he goes, so why are people afraid to see him go out and try? At least we will know better whether or not he deserves to be hired in the future.

There is a scary amount of people who seem to have missed this.

Don't get me wrong, we don't know Giggs. Maybe he is a footballing genius (no Moyes) but I've watched Giggs most of my life and every interview or media related output he's ever given, doesn't paint him as someone who's intelligent or particularly influential with his verbal output (something I consider critical as a top manager).

For me, if he is going to stay in the game, he comes across as a 'coach' in a team of coaches. Someone who isn't making the big decisions but has input here or there with training and works with the players.

 

[devilish]

That's quite a lot, I can see why that might make you more comfortable.

Ok, I'm willing to bet the guys in charge won't need to see that from him. I reckon if they haven't already seen enough then half a season to a season in charge will give them a better idea of his Capabilities than all that would. On the other hand with all we supposedly know about Klopp and Simeone, they could end up being less suited to the job than Moyes was let alone Giggs.

Facts is I'm not trying to pretend I know it all and I'm happy to defer to the guys in charge on this one, you can bring up the Moyes appointment but they knew a whole lot less about Moyes than they do about Giggs, so I'll see what they decide come 17/18 season.

Well if I was Giggs I'd work differently

A- Use LVG's connections and land a job in Holland (AZ or Twente?), win the league there and do fairly well in Europe
B- Move to a mid table club at a better league (Italy, Spain, France, Germany or the EPL) and overachieve. If he's lucky he might even get a top job with a sleeping giant (the Milan clubs for example)
C- Over achieve, hopefully by, do well in the Europa League and win something (Coppa Italia)
D- Take a Spurs/Roma type of club make it in the CL, give a run for the money to the top club and optionally win a trophy there.

It can be made. However why should he try building a CV when he can get the top job through nepotism?

 

[Rory 7]

Got news for you mate. There are no anti-Giggs posters here. No one dislikes Giggs on an intrinsic level. But people are quite understandably wary of handing him the job, when he's not remotely as qualified as some of the other prospective candidates. That argument is based on reason and anecdotal evidence, most of the appoint Giggs motion is predicated on romanticism rather than evidence, or some remote notions of him being our Guardiola, when Pep was infact an anomaly for a job of that scale, not the ever-present norm.

I'm referring to Anti-Giggs being the next manager.

 

[JPRouve]

Well facts don't stop being facts just because some grow tired of them.

There's nothing new to discuss as you say - it would be a joke of an appointment and that's that.

Ironically some of our supporters like to throw out the 'we have lost our identity' line in recent times - well for me, when you appoint someone like Ryan Fecking Giggs as your manager, that definitely is a change in our club in terms of standards.

About the identity part, if I'm not mistaken the identity of Manchester United is to appoint a manager who isn't a star, who is young, hungry and showed some talent in lesser clubs.
So LVG wasn't a typical United appointment and Giggs won't be, the typical United appointment would be Conte, Tuchel, Garcia or Pochettino, obviously they are not british but it's not that important.

 

[Rory 7]

There is a scary amount of people who seem to have missed this.

Don't get me wrong, we don't know Giggs. Maybe he is a footballing genius (no Moyes) but I've watched Giggs most of my life and every interview or media related output he's ever given, doesn't paint him as someone who's intelligent or particularly influential with his verbal output (something I consider critical as a top manager).

For me, if he is going to stay in the game, he comes across as a 'coach' in a team of coaches. Someone who isn't making the big decisions but has input here or there with training and works with the players.

Well people who know him and work with him disagree you.

 

[Minimalist]

Well people who know him and work with him disagree you.

Kind of a poor argument really.

Given Ferguson thought Moyes could handle the United job. And everyone else in the media was delighted he was given the chance. Those with reservations were proved totally right ultimately, despite the nods given to him.

If I say I've watched numerous interviews over the years and I can't remember him ever coming across as particularly knowledgeable or intelligent - the answer isn't to respond with 'well yeah but his mates think he's great.'

Better to provide me with something tangible I can see that shows me something to the contrary.

 

[afrocentricity]

About the identity part, if I'm not mistaken the identity of Manchester United is to appoint a manager who isn't a star, who is young, hungry and showed some talent in lesser clubs.
So LVG wasn't a typical United appointment and Giggs won't be, the typical United appointment would be Conte, Tuchel, Garcia or Pochettino, obviously they are not british but it's not that important.

I think these guys would lose their shit if it happened to be one of the managers you listed...

 

[Rory 7]

Kind of a poor argument really.

Given Ferguson thought Moyes could handle the United job. And everyone else in the media was delighted he was given the chance. Those with reservations were proved totally right ultimately, despite the nods given to him.

Kind of a typical response.

 

[Revan]

Well if I was Giggs I'd work differently

A- Use LVG's connections and land a job in Holland (AZ or Twente?), win the league there and do fairly well in Europe
B- Move to a mid table club at a better league (Italy, Spain, France, Germany or the EPL) and overachieve. That would probably earn him a job to a Roma/Napoli/Athletico Bilbao/Southampton type of club. If he's lucky he might even get a top job with a sleeping giant (the Milan clubs for example)
C- Go there and over achieve, hopefully by, making it to the CL and win something (Coppa Italia)
D- Return to England (at that point a Spurs job would probably be open for him), make it in the CL and optionally win a trophy there.

It can be made. However why should he try building a CV when he can get the top job through nepotism?

It can be done even more easy that that. Simeone had a similar path, but Klopp did it with two jumps, same for Mourinho and Ancelotti.
I think that Giggs can immediately get a lower table club in England or somewhere else. Overachive with it and then get a Spurs/Valencia type of club. Do there well and then get a top job (like United one).

 

[devilish]

It can be done even more easy that that. Simeone had a similar path, but Klopp did it with two jumps, same for Mourinho and Ancelotti.
I think that Giggs can immediately get a lower table club in England or somewhere else. Overachive with it and then get a Spurs/Valencia type of club. Do there well and then get a top job (like United one).

I agree. Having said that the Dutch league will get him a trophy or two in his managerial cabinet

 

[afrocentricity]

Kind of a poor argument really.

Given Ferguson thought Moyes could handle the United job. And everyone else in the media was delighted he was given the chance. Those with reservations were proved totally right ultimately, despite the nods given to him.

If I hear this one more time I'm fcuking off out the thread... Moyes, was way down the list. It's not like your favorite manager was available and SAF said no, give it to Moyes. He was painted as the chosen one to try and sell it to us... You guys have latched on to it as if anyone SAF promotes should be discounted because... Moyes.

 

[Jazz]

There is a scary amount of people who seem to have missed this.

Don't get me wrong, we don't know Giggs. Maybe he is a footballing genius (no Moyes) but I've watched Giggs most of my life and every interview or media related output he's ever given, doesn't paint him as someone who's intelligent or particularly influential with his verbal output (something I consider critical as a top manager).

Absolutely. This United job demands good communication skills at a minimum. But as I've mentioned, Giggs does not have much life experience outside of United and that is a big problem. Being older doesn't mean you have more life experience than someone younger. He's been at one place almost all his life and has no curiosity about anything else outside of it. How is he going to manage players from different cultures and background? What experience will he be able to draw on when he needs to motivate a player that for eg. may be super talented, but doesn't have the right mentality? How can you get the best out of people if you have no experience of how to deal with different personalities with their different issues? He may have played with all players from different backgrounds, but he's never had to manage them - a completely different scenario.

 

[Minimalist]

If I hear this one more time I'm fcuking off out the thread... Moyes, was way down the list. It's not like your favorite manager was available and SAF said no, give it to Moyes. He was painted as the chosen one to try and sell it to us... You guys have latched on to it as if anyone SAF promotes should be discounted because... Moyes.

So we should discard it altogether?! (Ferguson picking Moyes)

That's some bizarre logic.

 

[Rory 7]

I wonder if/when Zidane is appointed Real Madrid manager will the posters on here objecting to Giggs change their tune? I have no doubt they will.

 

[Jazz]

I wonder if/when Zidane is appointed Real Madrid manager will the posters on here objecting to Giggs change their tune? I have no doubt they will.

By all accounts Zidane is doing a shit job. Perez may be an ass, but he ain't stupid. I can guarantee Zidane will not be Real Madrid manager no matter how close he is to Perez.

Edit - shit job with their youth team.

 

[Revan]

If I hear this one more time I'm fcuking off out the thread... Moyes, was way down the list. It's not like your favorite manager was available and SAF said no, give it to Moyes. He was painted as the chosen one to try and sell it to us... You guys have latched on to it as if anyone SAF promotes should be discounted because... Moyes.

You really believe this? It was revisionism in Fergie's part. We have been hearing for years from British well-informed journos how Moyes was going to be the new manager, but most of us thought it is bullshit. Ultimatelly that was proven true. In that same year Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti and Pellegrini changed their jobs. Were we really uable to get one of them, or failing that go for Klopp, Simeone, Garcia,Conte or someone who wasn't totally clueless?

It is just Fergie saving face after he bottled it.

The same Fergie was advocating for Giggs getting the main job, just a couple of weeks after Moyes was sacked.

 

[Alex99]

Ancelotti has won 2 CLs with a club who spend less money than we do and Mourinho did extremely well with Porto. We're big spenders too

Yes. With Milan. The club he left in 2009. He hasn't been involved in a club like that since. Which is precisely what I said. Same goes for Mourinho. He left Porto over a decade ago ffs.

That is bullshit though. Barca finished third the year before they appointed Guardiola. During his entire spell there La Liga was either first or second top league in the world. Bundesliga is the second top league in the world.

United aren't underdog in England. We can spend as much as any other club bar probably City.

And they also reached the Champions League semi-final, only getting knocked out by a Paul Scholes thunderbolt. The season prior to that they finished 2nd on goal difference. He took over a team containing Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Eto'o, Henry, Dani Alves and Yaya Toure. They were hardly in bad shape. And when I talk about competitiveness I'm talking about consistent title challengers. Bundesliga has one and La Liga has just two. The Premier League has a number of teams that you can consider realistic title contenders and the same simply can't be said for those leagues.

Yep, it's a strange criticism to make. Pretty much all good managers spend plenty of money. If Giggs was manager, we'd undoubtedly be expecting for him to spend big and make some major improvements in certain areas, in the same manner we would with managers like Ancelotti or Mourinho.

If you can't see the difference between the approach to transfers taken by Real Madrid, PSG and Chelsea, and the approach historically taken by United then there's no point even discussing it.

 

[Minimalist]

How can you get the best out of people if you have no experience of how to deal with different personalities with their different issues? He may have played with all players from different backgrounds, but he's never had to manage them - a completely different scenario.

Exactly. Sounds pretty obvious doesn't it? Not to some apparently.

Top athletes are rarely good coaches - they don't know how to struggle. If management was as easy as some think it will be for Giggs, then fecking plenty more people than him (with his limited credentials) would be in charge of big clubs.

But they aren't - guess we're going to be mavericks for the sake of it.

 

[afrocentricity]

So we should discard it altogether?! (Ferguson picking Moyes)

That's some bizarre logic.

Discard what? If you've been following the thread then you'll know that it gets said at least once a fecking page, if you've got nothing to add other than but Moyes... Then I think I'm better off out the thread, I think we all are

 

[Rory 7]

By all accounts Zidane is doing a shit job. Perez may be an ass, but he ain't stupid. I can guarantee Zidane will not be Real Madrid manager no matter how close he is to Perez.

We'll see. But clearly Zidane is doing the exact same thing Giggs is doing? I bet if say Maldini was assistant at Milan he'd have plenty of supporters. Our fans are just 'different'.

 

[Minimalist]

We'll see. But clearly Zidane is doing the exact same thing Giggs is doing? I bet if say Maldini was assistant at Milan he'd have plenty of supporters. Our fans are just 'different'.

Some of them are, for sure.

 

[Rory 7]

Exactly. Sounds pretty obvious doesn't it? Not to some apparently.

Top athletes are rarely good coaches - they don't know how to struggle. If management was as easy as some think it will be for Giggs, then fecking plenty more people than him (with his limited credentials) would be in charge of big clubs.

But they aren't - guess we're going to be mavericks for the sake of it.

Tell Ivan Lendl that.

 

[Revan]

And they also reached the Champions League semi-final, only getting knocked out by a Paul Scholes thunderbolt. The season prior to that they finished 2nd on goal difference. He took over a team containing Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Eto'o, Henry, Dani Alves and Yaya Toure. They were hardly in bad shape. And when I talk about competitiveness I'm talking about consistent title challengers. Bundesliga has one and La Liga has just two. The Premier League has a number of teams that you can consider realistic title contenders and the same simply can't be said for those leagues.

No, it doesn't. It is just what we say to ourselves to feel better or superior. In the last 10 years, only three clubs have won EPL. In the last 10 years only 3 clubs have won La Liga. In the last 10 years, more than 3 clubs have won Bundesliga. Change 10 with 5 or 6 and you will get similar results.

Arsenal and Liverpool aren't more contenders than Atletico Madrid. In fact, they are less.

 

[Minimalist]

Tell Ivan Lendl that.

Can you read? I said 'rarely'.

For god sake, this is a thread with Pep Guardiola being mentioned, of course some of them do.

 

[Rory 7]

Can you read? I said 'rarely'.

Oh. So now you're losing the argument you get abusive. Lovely.

 

[Jazz]

Exactly. Sounds pretty obvious doesn't it? Not to some apparently.

Top athletes are rarely good coaches - they don't know how to struggle. If management was as easy as some think it will be for Giggs, then fecking plenty more people than him (with his limited credentials) would be in charge of big clubs.

But they aren't - guess we're going to be mavericks for the sake of it.

This is the phrase I've been looking for. And you know what, years ago I listened to one of Ferguson's interview on the very subject of whether great players make great managers. Funnily, Fergie's argument was along similar lines of what's highlighted above (even if expressed differently). It's therefore unbelievable that he would abandon that common sense view just because he thinks of Giggs as his adopted son

 

[Revan]

We'll see. But clearly Zidane is doing the exact same thing Giggs is doing? I bet if say Maldini was assistant at Milan he'd have plenty of supporters. Our fans are just 'different'.

It doesn't look very likely for Zidane to get the main job at Madrid. And I also don't hear Madrid fans actually wanting it.

Milano (who lets face it, at the moment are more a historical club than a big club) have appointed 3 ex-players as managers in the last 5 years or so. All three of them have failed miserably. I don't think that their fans are advocating an ex player of them getting the job. And anyway, it is irrelevant. At the moment, they cannot attract top managers. We can.