The Americas Draft, R1: P-Nut/D'cast vs Boris 5-8

[Chesterlestreet]

TEAM P-NUT/DOWNCAST

See threadmarks for tactical changes

Player name - Position - Role
Carbajal - Goalkeeper - Defence

Pereira - Stopper - Keep it simple
Santamaria - Stopper - Leader of defence
Quintano - Stopper - Keep it simple

Spoiler: Quintano/Pereira

QUINTANO - The best central defender from Chile with Figueroa

Emerged from Universidad de Chile in the 60s. These years were historic for the "U" and was the period known as the Ballet Azul. Furthermore, for a decade and a half was a key figure in the scaffolding of La Red.

At the end of that decade migrated to Mexican soccer, where he became the star in central defense of Cruz Azul, as a pair with Javier "Kaliman" Guzman. There he stayed for six years, and then return to the table to U.

In selecting Chilean found an ideal partner in Elias Figueroa, with whom he formed a spectacular defensive partner, who was described as a true 'wall' in the World Alemania'74.

He also participated in the playoffs in 1969 for the World Cup in Mexico'70 and in the playoffs in 1977 for the World Cup in Argentina'78, that on both occasions was not ranked Chile. In 1979, Quintano played the Copa America in Chile which was runner-up.

Quintano ended his career as an active player in the Club Deportivo Magallanes.


*************************************************************

LUIS PEREIRA - The best central defender from Brazil with Da Guia

Luís Edmundo Pereira (born June 21, 1949) is a retired association footballer. He played centre back, in particular with S.E Palmeiras, Atletico Madrid and the Brazilian National team. He won national championships in both Brazil and Spain beyond UEFA and the Intercontinental cup. Known for his pace and power, as well as his marking and defensive leadership, he was, for a time, considered one of the best defenders in Europe during his time with Atletico Madrid. However, he was not as highly regarded in Brazil. While his defending style can be considered "classical," he is also considered the first and best of Brazil's "modern" centre back, a role that would go on to include world-cup winner Lucia.

Alves - Wing-Back - Offer out ball wide right.
N.Santos - Wing-Back - Up and down his flank. Complete wing back

Cerezo - Deep lying playmaker - Orchestrate the attacks.
Danilo - Defensive midfielder - Sit deep and cut passing lanes

Tevez - Inside Forward - Drift in from right offering goal threat
Sanchez - Inside Forward (Free Role) - Start on the left but Drift where he chooses.

Forlan - Target man - Uses strength to enable forwards to link with him.

Key points

- Front three harass the defence with unquestionable work rate.

- Santos and Alves both excellent at providing width going forward.

- Danilo to help Cerezo engineer space as he is also adept at playmaking.

- Greatest defence in the draft. Santamaria unquestionable. Pereira one of Brazils best ever cbs and Quintano the same for Chile.

- I've gone for unbelievable defensive structure to combat the obvious south American flair. Even my three attackers are adept at performing their defensive duties.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

TEAM BORIS

Tactically I am playing a kind of 4-3-2-1 formation. Loustau will play left wing and look to make attacking runs from deep. Andrade will be given license to dominate the right side of the pitch, with Jorginho in support. I have two world class playmakers in Gerson and Schiaffino, possibly GOAT level, who will create plenty of openings for my team. Spencer's greatest strength is his heading ability, so I will look to Loustau and Jorginho to get some crosses in, but he was also a very accomplished finisher and his pace will potentially give him chances in behind. In defence I am relatively weak but with Rossi and Andrade protecting them and a world class keeper behind them they are getting great support.

The team is a fantastic blend of work rate, technical ability, and leadership, and would fight for every game as well as being capable of dominating possession.

Felix Loustau – Was an integral part of the famous La Maquina team for River. He played on the left side of the front five and was known as “el ventilador-wing” which directly translates as “the fan-wing”, essentially he was given this nickname because of his tremendous work rate, which allowed him to support the midfield as well as get forward. He scored 101 goals in 365 games for River and is widely considered one of the greatest wingers in Argentinian history. He was by all accounts a complete winger; pacey, tricky, and highly technically adept, with good end product.

Jose Leandro Andrade – Arguably the greatest wing-half of all time, Andrade was widely regarded as among the best players in the world in the twenties.

To rob two quotes from a previous draft;

Antohan said:

The first international football superstar. Why? Because at a time when football was about 5 defensive players vs. 5 attacking players, Andrade was the first to combine both to devastating effect. He would both shut out his flank AND make the transition to attack, carrying the ball out of his own half and terrorising defences with his dribbling and precise long passing/crossing.

The Black Marvel, as the French baptised him was the fulcrum for a dominant Uruguay side which picked up two Olympic Golds, the first World Cup and three Copa Américas.

Journalist Raúl Barbero said:

France brought him to the limelight. The nickname "The Black Marvel" was coined after he entangled and captivated the gaul stands with his bewitching play. A polished technique, his feline movement across the pitch, a sense of positioning and timing which allowed him to be in the right place at the right time to avoid a goal, even when the ball had already beaten the keeper. He nullified his rival -whoever that was-; and played his way upfield with a perfect dribble; passed the ball to the centimetre; and defended "from head to toe".

A complete player. A few years ago, a group of reputable critics had a roundtable to determine Uruguay's Best Ever XI and he was undisputed as a right half-back, but also picked as centre-half, and was in with a shout for his latter days as a forward when his pace was gone but his ability on the ball wasn't.

His burst into the Parisian scene was followed by the triumphant campaigns in Amsterdam and Montevideo. In the seven years between 1923 and 1930 he defended the sky blue 43 times, losing only three games and in all the major finals not once did a rival goal originate on his side of the pitch.

For me he is playing as a slightly wide midfielder. Basically he has full freedom to completely dominate the right hand side of the pitch, with Jorginho overlapping him and Rossi providing protection as the midfield anchor.

Nestor Rossi – A complete destroyer and a great leader, Nestor Rossi will control the centre of the pitch and offer a huge amount of protection to my central defenders.

A google translated quote from a former team mate: Rossi "was the one directing the maneuvers the team. He who put things in place in the midfield," he recalled Angel Labruna, the leading scorer in River Plate.

Thus, a player who could break up play but also excellent on the ball.

Alberto Spencer – ‘A pacy centre-forward who was equally confortable shooting with either foot, perhaps Spencer's greatest attribute was his ability in the air where no less a figure than Pelé described him as one of the finest headers of the ball he had ever seen.’ http://www.world-football-legends.co.uk/index.php/ecu/144-spencer-alberto

He is the all time top scorer of the Copa Libertadores with 54 goals. He offers a dual threat in behind and in the air, and Loustau and Jorginho/Andrade can provide delivery from wide.

Juan Alberto Schiaffino - was one of the great inside forwards of his day - a man with exquisite ball control, an eye for the telling pass, and scored many important goals. He will look to find space and play passes in behind for Loustau and Spencer making forward runs. He is widely regarded as the greatest Uruguayan footballer of all time and by proxy is the best player available from pool 2. Won the world cup in 1950 in which he scored 5 goals. Was also the world record transfer fee in 1954 when Milan signed him.

Julio Melendez – Was a sweeper style centre back, broadly similar to Rio Ferdinand in that he was a great reader of the game and rarely had to use strength or foul to stop the opposition. He captained Boca to two league titles in 1969 and 1970 and partnered Chumpitaz at centre back when Peru won the Copa in 1975.

Edinho - Captained Brazil in the 1986 world cup. He was a powerful defender who would dovetail nicely with Melendez.

Gerson - Gerson was a wonderful playmaker and part of the great Brazil team of the 1970 world cup. He will be the main playmaker of my side, dictating the tempo and running the game from deep.

Emerson Leao was the backup keeper for Brazil in 1970 and startyed the next two world cups, and became the first keeper to captain Brazil in 1978. He was named in the FIFA XI in 1979.

Jorginho was the starting right back when Brazil won the world cup in 1994. He was an excellent attacking full back who had the stamina and work rate to get up and down the pitch. He will provide the width on that side of the pitch.

Filipe Luis - been one of the best left backs in the world for a few years now, very solid.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

@P-Nut0712 @Downcast @BorisDeLeFora

Good luck, gentlemen.

P-Nut/Downcast: You can do something on Sharemytactics later and send it to me - I will then edit the OP. If you should wish to do so, that is.

Boris: You can post the vids separately yourself - can't have 'em in the OP, though, as per the rules.

 

[P-Nut]

Yeah just to let everyone know share my tactics wasn't working although I expect it to be pretty self explanatory.

Alves and Santos will be attacking wing backs.

Sanchez will be slightly deeper than Tevez and provide the link between the 2 DM's and the attack. Floating across the pitch moving where he likes to pick up bits of space.

Cerezo will play slightly higher than Danilo and be a creative force spraying balls out wide and up to Forlan. Space will be created for him by linking with Danilo who is just as adept at playmaking.

 

[P-Nut]

Boris' right hand side my left is where I think I'll win this game.

Santos bombing down that side with Sanchez cutting in will cause Jorginho nightmares and for me it's too big of a mismatch to not see goals created from there.

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

Boris' right hand side my left is where I think I'll win this game.

Santos bombing down that side with Sanchez cutting in will cause Jorginho nightmares and for me it's too big of a mismatch to not see goals created from there.

I don't agree with that, Andrade will provide ample cover. He is naturally a right wing half, so would be completely athome drifting out to support Jorginho, plus he is starting as a wide rcm anyway.

From my point of view, I think Gerson will have huge amounts of time and space to dominate the game. My midfield has a 4 vs. 2 advantage in the centre and should completely dominate that area, thus Gerson will be fed enough of the ball to really control the tempo.

He is the best player on the pitch.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I don't agree with that, Andrade will provide ample cover. He is naturally a right wing half, so would be completely athome drifting out to support Jorginho, plus he is starting as a wide rcm anyway.

From my point of view, I think Gerson will have huge amounts of time and space to dominate the game. My midfield has a 4 vs. 2 advantage in the centre and should completely dominate that area, thus Gerson will be fed enough of the ball to really control the tempo.

He is the best player on the pitch.

He's not, but you do still have the best player on the pitch in Schiaffino

 

[Physiocrat]

Initial thoughts.

I like the use of Andrade with Jorginho overlapping. It's probably the best use of him in a contemporary formation with the possible exception of the being the RCM in a 433. It also seems a well oiled unit with a lot of creativity.

P-Nut/Downcast's team is very solid and workman like who are likely to be best at soaking up the pressure and breaking quickly. There isn't really a proper playmaker so could struggle to score not on the counter.

Could both managers provide a bit more info on the defenders- in particular Luis, Edinho, Quintano and Pereira? I don't know much about them. Also some info on the keepers wouldn't go a miss.

 

[harms]

@P-Nut0712 can you add names to Santos and Sanchez if possible? Not really needed with Santos but I genuinely don't know which Sanchez it is - Alexis would be my guess?

 

[P-Nut]

@P-Nut0712 can you add names to Santos and Sanchez if possible? Not really needed with Santos but I genuinely don't know which Sanchez it is - Alexis would be my guess?

Ah yeah it is. Guessed because the other Sanchez was used in the other game most would know but yeah I'll edit my post now.

Initial thoughts.

I like the use of Andrade with Jorginho overlapping. It's probably the best use of him in a contemporary formation with the possible exception of the being the RCM in a 433. It also seems a well oiled unit with a lot of creativity.

P-Nut/Downcast's team is very solid and workman like who are likely to be best at soaking up the pressure and breaking quickly. There isn't really a proper playmaker so could struggle to score not on the counter.

Could both managers provide a bit more info on the defenders- in particular Luis, Edinho, Quintano and Pereira? I don't know much about them. Also some info on the keepers wouldn't go a miss.

Give me a couple of minutes.

 

[P-Nut]

@Physiocrat

QUINTANO - The best central defender from Chili with Figueroa

Emerged from Universidad de Chile in the 60s. These years were historic for the "U" and was the period known as the Ballet Azul. Furthermore, for a decade and a half was a key figure in the scaffolding of La Red.

At the end of that decade migrated to Mexican soccer, where he became the star in central defense of Cruz Azul, as a pair with Javier "Kaliman" Guzman. There he stayed for six years, and then return to the table to U.

In selecting Chilean found an ideal partner in Elias Figueroa, with whom he formed a spectacular defensive partner, who was described as a true 'wall' in the World Alemania'74.

He also participated in the playoffs in 1969 for the World Cup in Mexico'70 and in the playoffs in 1977 for the World Cup in Argentina'78, that on both occasions was not ranked Chile. In 1979, Quintano played the Copa America in Chile which was runner-up.

Quintano ended his career as an active player in the Club Deportivo Magallanes.


*************************************************************

LUIS PEREIRA - The best central defender from Brazil with Da Guia

Luís Edmundo Pereira (born June 21, 1949) is a retired association footballer. He played centre back, in particular with S.E Palmeiras, Atletico Madrid and the Brazilian National team. He won national championships in both Brazil and Spain beyond UEFA and the Intercontinental cup. Known for his pace and power, as well as his marking and defensive leadership, he was, for a time, considered one of the best defenders in Europe during his time with Atletico Madrid. However, he was not as highly regarded in Brazil. While his defending style can be considered "classical," he is also considered the first and best of Brazil's "modern" centre back, a role that would go on to include world-cup winner Lucia.

@harms @Chesterlestreet will have to edit it as I can't.

 

[Enigma_87]

@P-Nut0712 why didn't you guys go with Ademir instead of Tevez(Ademir on the left, Sanchez on the right and Forlan center)? He's more fluent out wide than Tevez and IMO the better player.

I like the back five and IMO Cerezo can provide some distribution in the middle, although with that saturated middle of the park he'll have a lot of work to do with Danilo.

From a first glance Boris has the better midfield and IMO slightly better attack - Spencer up front with the support of Schiaffino and Loustau on the wing is mouth watering and Gerson pinging up balls from the center.

When it comes to defence - P-nut/DC one is really great.

@P-Nut0712 would love some more info on your keeper, cause frankly have no idea who he is.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

@Physiocrat

QUINTANO - The best central defender from Chili with Figueroa

Emerged from Universidad de Chile in the 60s. These years were historic for the "U" and was the period known as the Ballet Azul. Furthermore, for a decade and a half was a key figure in the scaffolding of La Red.

At the end of that decade migrated to Mexican soccer, where he became the star in central defense of Cruz Azul, as a pair with Javier "Kaliman" Guzman. There he stayed for six years, and then return to the table to U.

In selecting Chilean found an ideal partner in Elias Figueroa, with whom he formed a spectacular defensive partner, who was described as a true 'wall' in the World Alemania'74.

He also participated in the playoffs in 1969 for the World Cup in Mexico'70 and in the playoffs in 1977 for the World Cup in Argentina'78, that on both occasions was not ranked Chile. In 1979, Quintano played the Copa America in Chile which was runner-up.

Quintano ended his career as an active player in the Club Deportivo Magallanes.


*************************************************************

LUIS PEREIRA - The best central defender from Brazil with Da Guia

Luís Edmundo Pereira (born June 21, 1949) is a retired association footballer. He played centre back, in particular with S.E Palmeiras, Atletico Madrid and the Brazilian National team. He won national championships in both Brazil and Spain beyond UEFA and the Intercontinental cup. Known for his pace and power, as well as his marking and defensive leadership, he was, for a time, considered one of the best defenders in Europe during his time with Atletico Madrid. However, he was not as highly regarded in Brazil. While his defending style can be considered "classical," he is also considered the first and best of Brazil's "modern" centre back, a role that would go on to include world-cup winner Lucia.

@harms @Chesterlestreet will have to edit it as I can't.

Pereira's wikipedia doesnt really do much for him here. This is an America's draft, and it mentions that he wasn't highly regarded in Brazil.

 

[harms]

Same for @BorisDeLeFora btw, it's Filipe Luis, judging by the description? Don't make us compare threads and descriptions to guess the player when you can add one letter to the formation pic. Probably would be better to specify that it's the older Andrade too, especially for the voters who are not going to read the thread with precision

 

[Physiocrat]

Thanks for the info @P-Nut0712

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

Emerson Leao is one of the most underrated goalkeepers ever. He was famous for his superb reflexes save. His talent was performed since early career when he was selected as a reserved goalkeeper in the 1970 World Cup. Afterwards, he was almost one of the most world cup tournaments to play with five but he didn’t have a good relationship with Tele Santana by the time world cup 1982 was going to compete. But still, His great performance in world cup 1974 and 1978 was good enough for a documentary video produced by FIFA “FIFA Fever” rated him as the third-most impressive defensive player of all-time. Leao kept 8 clean sheets from 14 games in 2 World Cup final tournaments. - plaigarised from xtratime.org

Filipe Luis is the Atleti full back

Frankly I have extremely limited information on Edinho other than the fact that he has 59 caps for Brazi and captained them in 86.

Updated initials

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Thanks, Boris - will update the OP.

 

[P-Nut]

Pereira's wikipedia doesnt really do much for him here. This is an America's draft, and it mentions that he wasn't highly regarded in Brazil.

Being highly regarded in your country doesn't matter when you're a top quality player. Give me a couple minutes and I'll show you what I mean with regards Pereira.

@Enigma_87 I've gone for Tevez as he has a higher work rate. Something that embodies my front three in general.

Boris has an extremely weak central defensive area so by getting after them when in possession (something all 3 Attackers are known for) we can cause him to give up possession quite often.

Also the plan is to hit them on the break and soak up pressure with every man defending. Tevez will perform that role without question and when defending I won't have to carry a single person.

I conceded Boris' midfield is probably greater than mine and he will likely control the majority of the game. My defence is more than capable of soaking up the pressure from his attack though which isn't too star studded to be deemed impossible.

Then on the counter I have:

Santos on one flank. Brazils best ever attacking left back.

Alves on the opposite side and whilst his defending can be called into question his attacking for a full back/ wing back certainly can't.

Sanchez picking up space that's available by moving inside jorginho.

Forlan as an out ball to play off.

And Tevez who will chase anything and everything.

All instigated by Cerezo (and Danilo if required)

I really can't see how I don't score on the counter here.

 

[P-Nut]

@DavidG as you can see here he is rated higher than Lucia and others by many that have watched Brazil over the years

All time brazil squad A

All time Brazil squad B

 

[Deleted member 101472]

@DavidG as you can see here he is rated higher than Lucia and others by many that have watched Brazil over the years

All time brazil squad A

All time Brazil squad B

This is the Bayer Leverkusen lucio right ? I never really knew what to make of him , as clumsy as david Luiz at times and as rock solid as Thiago silva at times. Wouldn't put him near an all time Brazil XI mind you.

 

[mazhar13]

This matchup is an obvious attack vs. defence game with P-Nut/Downcast going with the park-the-bus approach whilst Boris goes with the attacking approach. Boris has a softer defence than P-Nut's but his attack is absolutely mouth-watering. I really cannot decide at the moment.

Regarding Luis Pereira, when I watched Brazil vs. Yugoslavia from the 1974 World Cup, he looked like complete defender to me. If I had to compare his style to today's players, it would have to be with Thiago Silva. His reading of the game and positioning was very good, and on the ball, he was comfortable enough to play it out of trouble, which allowed Brazil to push up further.

The Toninho-Danilo Alvim midfield is also one that I like. Toninho himself was an accomplished passer of the ball but normally played a simple game for other midfield playmakers in his team. Here, however, given more of a responsibility to control the midfield when on the ball, I think he can do a decent job as he was good on the ball and had an accurate short/long pass.

My only issue with P-Nut's midfield is the lack of wingers to really stretch Boris' team on the counter. Tevez is quite central himself and only drifted out wide when his teams sustained possession. Sanchez loved to drift inside from the left as well and only went outside when his team had control of the ball. All in all, his team's too central going forward, and that could be his downfall given that Boris' attack could eventually get a goal given their top quality and overall balance.

 

[Gio]

It's hard to call Brazilian centre-halves. Domingos Da Guia stands at the top of the pile, but after that it's a bit tricky. I'd go for Thiago Silva with his all-roundedness and modern-day athleticism - and probably the only one of the contenders who was the best in the world at his peak (albeit in a weaker era). Luis Pereira and Lucio probably next, not hugely impressed with what I've seen of Mauro Ramos, Aldair and a few others to be honest.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I went for Boris because his side will have too many attacks for it not to eventually pay off. The industry of pnut / downcast front 3 is unquestionable ( Infact I could see all 3 chasing down the same ball ) but sheer talent wise , it's a bit underwhelming.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Pereira's wikipedia doesnt really do much for him here. This is an America's draft, and it mentions that he wasn't highly regarded in Brazil.

Interesting comment here.

I did have Pereira before and I think wiki has it wrong. He was one of the earliest ball playing centre backs to say and had the habit of stepping out of the box. This was not well received and was considered a liability (as in leaving space behind)...Though every report I read speaks of him of a competent defender and not vulnerable positionally. I put that down to a playing style issue and maybe a early pioneer in that role in Brazil at that time.

The "not-regarded in Brazil" probably originated from the 1974 WC. The team was a far cry from the 1970 golden team with only the ageing Rivelino and Jairzinho who could not lift them to the heights of before. On top of that they were facing the genius of Rinus Michels and the great Oranje's which sported Cruyff, Neeskens and van Hanegem. Despite being undefeated till now it was a very mediocre Brazil team who came away with many draws in group stages. The match started off well, but soon it was clear that the Dutch far outclassed the Brazilians all over the pitch. When Neeskens scored it turned downright ugly and Luis Pereira got a red card in the eventual loss and exit for Brazil. Despite that being a rare red card and not a normal Luis Pereira game, it still gave him a bad reputation back home.

I'd still have him as a top 5 all time Brazilian CB's.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Interesting comment here.

I did have Pereira before and I think wiki has it wrong. He was one of the earliest ball playing centre backs to say and had the habit of stepping out of the box. This was not well received and was considered a liability (as in leaving space behind)...Though every report I read speaks of him of a competent defender and not vulnerable positionally. I put that down to a playing style issue and maybe a early pioneer in that role in Brazil at that time.

The "not-regarded in Brazil" probably originated from the 1974 WC. The team was a far cry from the 1970 golden team with only the ageing Rivelino and Jairzinho who could not lift them to the heights of before. On top of that they were facing the genius of Rinus Michels and the great Oranje's which sported Cruyff, Neeskens and van Hanegem. Despite being undefeated till now it was a very mediocre Brazil team who came away with many draws in group stages. The match started off well, but soon it was clear that the Dutch far outclassed the Brazilians all over the pitch. When Neeskens scored it turned downright ugly and Luis Pereira got a red card in the eventual loss and exit for Brazil. Despite that being a rare red card and not a normal Luis Pereira game, it still gave him a bad reputation back home.

I'd still have him as a top 5 all time Brazilian CB's.

What I was getting at really was that Wikipedia might not be the best source for info. I tried to find out more about their goalkeeper too and noticed Wikipedia has him listed as " one of the greatest Mexican players of all time " or words to that effect. Some players you just can't find out much about and if Wikipedia gleans the most information then fair play. Pereira does appear to be an all time great Brazilian XI however , so it's all besides the point really.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

This is the Bayer Leverkusen lucio right ? I never really knew what to make of him , as clumsy as david Luiz at times and as rock solid as Thiago silva at times. Wouldn't put him near an all time Brazil XI mind you.

One of Brazil's greatest ever defenders, imo. Not just saying that because I have him picked, either.

 

[Enigma_87]

Being highly regarded in your country doesn't matter when you're a top quality player. Give me a couple minutes and I'll show you what I mean with regards Pereira.

@Enigma_87 I've gone for Tevez as he has a higher work rate. Something that embodies my front three in general.

Boris has an extremely weak central defensive area so by getting after them when in possession (something all 3 Attackers are known for) we can cause him to give up possession quite often.

Also the plan is to hit them on the break and soak up pressure with every man defending. Tevez will perform that role without question and when defending I won't have to carry a single person.

I conceded Boris' midfield is probably greater than mine and he will likely control the majority of the game. My defence is more than capable of soaking up the pressure from his attack though which isn't too star studded to be deemed impossible.

Then on the counter I have:

Santos on one flank. Brazils best ever attacking left back.

Alves on the opposite side and whilst his defending can be called into question his attacking for a full back/ wing back certainly can't.

Sanchez picking up space that's available by moving inside jorginho.

Forlan as an out ball to play off.

And Tevez who will chase anything and everything.

All instigated by Cerezo (and Danilo if required)

I really can't see how I don't score on the counter here.

Got it. Still I'd loved Ademir to feature - he began his career on the left and was fast as feck, there were some videos on youtube - great skills on the ball and given the appropriate set up could really rip the defence.

I'll wait a bit for the discussion to go on and make up my mind, to me it's very close one.

Luis Pereira is also one of the best Brazillian defenders to me as well. Close to Lucio I'd say.

 

[P-Nut]

This matchup is an obvious attack vs. defence game with P-Nut/Downcast going with the park-the-bus approach whilst Boris goes with the attacking approach. Boris has a softer defence than P-Nut's but his attack is absolutely mouth-watering. I really cannot decide at the moment.

Regarding Luis Pereira, when I watched Brazil vs. Yugoslavia from the 1974 World Cup, he looked like complete defender to me. If I had to compare his style to today's players, it would have to be with Thiago Silva. His reading of the game and positioning was very good, and on the ball, he was comfortable enough to play it out of trouble, which allowed Brazil to push up further.

The Toninho-Danilo Alvim midfield is also one that I like. Toninho himself was an accomplished passer of the ball but normally played a simple game for other midfield playmakers in his team. Here, however, given more of a responsibility to control the midfield when on the ball, I think he can do a decent job as he was good on the ball and had an accurate short/long pass.

My only issue with P-Nut's midfield is the lack of wingers to really stretch Boris' team on the counter. Tevez is quite central himself and only drifted out wide when his teams sustained possession. Sanchez loved to drift inside from the left as well and only went outside when his team had control of the ball. All in all, his team's too central going forward, and that could be his downfall given that Boris' attack could eventually get a goal given their top quality and overall balance.

My width is provided by Alves and Santos who are undeniably some of the best wing backs in the pool and even higher when you think about their attacking output.

 

[mazhar13]

My width is provided by Alves and Santos who are undeniably some of the best wing backs in the pool and even higher when you think about their attacking output.

That's fine, but how often will they really be able to get forward? Your team will be under the cosh for much of the match, and so I don't know if your team will be able to hold onto the ball for long enough in order to get both involved in the attack.

 

[P-Nut]

That's fine, but how often will they really be able to get forward? Your team will be under the cosh for much of the match, and so I don't know if your team will be able to hold onto the ball for long enough in order to get both involved in the attack.

I agree we won't have the ball much but the two playmakers in the middle of the park have enough quality to pick out the runners out wide.

As for how often will they get forward? They have got license to bomb on every time we win the ball back. I trust in my back three plus the 2 holding mids to be able to contain any rapid counter attacks. Let's not forget I've got one of the best cbs in the pool along with the 2 excellent cbs in their own countries (both being rated as top 2 by various sources). These are protected by the best brazilian defensive mid and another more than capable defensive mid.

This gives license for the wing backs to bomb on all game just as they did throughout their careers and it's what made them so successful.

 

[mazhar13]

Another thing that I noticed about P-Nut's team is that Luis Pereira is playing on the left side. Now I haven't seen that much footage of him, but when I watched the World Cup 1974 match between Brazil and Yugoslavia, Luis Pereira was playing on the right side. For those who watched more of him, will he still be comfortable on the left side? I can see that he doesn't have to deal with any right winger, so that could work to his advantage.

 

[Physiocrat]

A question somewhat tangential to this match but are there any historical examples of teams with great wingers facing a team with great wing-backs, I can't think of any off hand.

 

[mazhar13]

A question somewhat tangential to this match but are there any historical examples of teams with great wingers facing a team with great wing-backs, I can't think of any off hand.

Inter vs. Celtic (1967): Facchetti vs. Jinky Johnstone

That's the only example that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Physiocrat]

Inter vs. Celtic (1967): Facchetti vs. Jinky Johnstone

That's the only example that I can think of off the top of my head.

Excellent example.

 

[Enigma_87]

A question somewhat tangential to this match but are there any historical examples of teams with great wingers facing a team with great wing-backs, I can't think of any off hand.

A more recent one.

 

[harms]

A question somewhat tangential to this match but are there any historical examples of teams with great wingers facing a team with great wing-backs, I can't think of any off hand.

Interesting. Very hard to think of one, really

1982 Kaltz and Breigel against Cabrini and Conti - but it's only one great winger and another wingback.

If we're talking about 1 on 1 then there are a few notable examples

 

[P-Nut]

Let's get a bit of appreciation for a player that is being criminally under rated here as well.

DIEGO FORLAN

A technical, hardworking and creative player with an eye for goal, Forlán is a quick, complete and versatile forward who is capable of playing anywhere along the front line.[63] He has been deployed as a striker, as a supporting forward, as an attacking midfielder, and even as a winger, often drifting onto the flank to begin attacking plays.[63][64]He is capable of scoring with either foot[65]both from inside and outside the area,[66] and he is also an accurate set-piece and penalty kick taker.[67] In addition to his goalscoring ability, Forlán is gifted with good technical ability and ball control, as well as good vision and passing ability, which allows to play off other players, also making him a capable assist provider.[63][68][69] Aside from his footballing skills, Forlán has also been revered for his leadership throughout his career.

Just adds to the fact my front three can all change around and cause defenders headaches with their changing positions

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

Alves and Santos are extremely effective going forward, but to combat that I have Loustau, a player who was famous for an insane level of stamina and work rate, and Andrade, who also possessed exceptional fitness, as well as naturally being a borderline right wing back. That goes a huge amount toward cutting out that threat.

Also, I see this game being played very much in the oppositions half, so those full backs will essentially have to run box to box to create chances, which of course they may well be capable of, but that's a lot of time for my players together on the cover.

I have a reasonably weak central defence in a GOAT sense, but the three man attack with Tevez and Sanchez on the sides mean they will almost always be looking for passes in central areas, where Nestor Rossi will be knocking about, which will put immense pressure on passes into feet. The ball in behind for Alexis will be on from time to time, but Melendez' reading of the game will deal with that to a certain extent. This is assuming Alexis is leaving Jorginho march up the wing on his own.

In a team vs. team comparison in GOAT terms, the attacking system isn't a huge amount above my defensive system. At the opposite end, my attacking system is at a very high level, but is up against a strong looking defensive system. So you can argue my defence is weak, but at the other end there is at least a similar gulf in class between attack and defence, if not more.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Let's get a bit of appreciation for a player that is being criminally under rated here as well.

DIEGO FORLAN

A technical, hardworking and creative player with an eye for goal, Forlán is a quick, complete and versatile forward who is capable of playing anywhere along the front line.[63] He has been deployed as a striker, as a supporting forward, as an attacking midfielder, and even as a winger, often drifting onto the flank to begin attacking plays.[63][64]He is capable of scoring with either foot[65]both from inside and outside the area,[66] and he is also an accurate set-piece and penalty kick taker.[67] In addition to his goalscoring ability, Forlán is gifted with good technical ability and ball control, as well as good vision and passing ability, which allows to play off other players, also making him a capable assist provider.[63][68][69] Aside from his footballing skills, Forlán has also been revered for his leadership throughout his career.

Just adds to the fact my front three can all change around and cause defenders headaches with their changing positions

Come on, I get using Wikipedia for older players but there must be so much better places for stuff on Forlan.

 

[P-Nut]

Come on, I get using Wikipedia for older players but there must be so much better places for stuff on Forlan.

I was on 1% battery but I'll do just that now