The Americas Draft, R1: Enigma/Joga vs Gio 7-4

[harms]

If you are interested in watching more of him, I'd recommend the games against Gremio and Cobreloa in the Copa Libertadores finals, where you can see his goalscoring impact - 2nd highest goalscorer of all time in the Copa Libertadores after all

Thanks, I'll check it out when I'll have time

 

[Gio]

I don't know much about Erico to be honest apart from what I've read, but apart from Spencer who IMO is the best non pool 1 forward hands down, Morena is right up there with the rest.

Nah, it's Erico who is the standout from the pool 2 strikers. Spencer is close behind, but Erico's legend and goalscoring are practically unique. Moreno is a level below those two in pool 2.

Erico was Romario's speed of thought, dribbling, and playing off the shoulder, with Hugo Sánchez' athleticism and Zamorano's aerial dominance, all neatly rolled into one.

Agile, nippy striker, with a leap that allowed him to jump higher than a keepers' arms from a standing position. When the ball was not high enough he would bicycle kick it. If slightly behind him he would scorpion kick it.

The highest ever goalscorer in the Argentinian league, at that time the best in the world. He was top scorer for three consecutive seasons: 1937 (47 goals in 34 games), 1938 (43 goals in 30) and 1939 (40 goals in 32) and wrapped up his career with 331 goals in 372.

Greatest player you've never heard of? - http://inbedwithmaradona.com/journal/2011/4/6/he-was-a-paraguayan.html

 

[Joga Bonito]

Just using this illustration to clarify our defensive strategy.

It's a compact core with a defensively solid RB, a LCB with top notch reading of the game, a RCB who matches up well against Erico stylistically and Zito who is brilliant at commanding and guarding the danger area ahead of the defense in which Pedernera-Zizinho operate.

Re Veron : It's not like we are asking Veron to tail Pedernera/Zizinho or be a midfield heavyweight in the engine room. His task is relatively simple, playmake and provide service for the forwards on the ball. Off the ball he will be asked to put a shift in and make his presence felt. Nothing out of ordinary and as Enigma pointed out earlier, he's gone up against some of the best midfields of his era in the Serie A and shone.



His battle against Edgar Davids is definitely worth a watch in this one and he is certainly an useful player to have off the ball.

A few other masterclasses to refresh people's memory of Veron's time in Italy. Just watch the game against Milan if nothing else

Spoiler

Couple of points

1) Gio's attack is fairly narrow-ish and it's a centrally oriented attack, no two ways about it, and in both Gambetta and Leandro we have two wing-backs from Gio's side who have been instructed to attack. Now they are already facing uphill tasks with Gambetta against Garrincha, and Leandro against Sosa & a liberated Branco*. Asking them to play as attacking wing-backs without much cover is only going to exacerbate this issue. Arguably two of the best routes to goal on the entire pitch. Pizarro has been given the duty of covering for Gambetta but to what extent can he desert midfield duties and cover for the Uruguayan with Veron and Kempes in the centre? Even then to what extent will Pizarro's cover aid in helping out Gambetta against Garrincha. Let's not forget that we are talking about Garrincha here, one of the greatest dribblers and arguably the best winger ever (alongside Best). Someone who revelled in taking on not just his marker, but 2-3 players at once, and getting the better of them. That's not to paint him as unstoppable but it's going to take more than Gambetta (who is not in his specialist position and is playing as a wing-back) and some cover from the LDM (who is involved in a tough tussle in the middle) to stop him.


2) The threat of Branco

Leandro was already facing an tough battle against Ruben Sosa but that, coupled with Branco having the full freedom to bomb forward is only going to make things a whole lot more difficult for him. Branco was one of the best attacking full-backs of his era and he was the FB for the Selecao in their victorious 1989 Copa America and the 1994 World Cup campaigns.



Scoring a winner in the WC 1994 quarter finals against the Dutch en route to winning it. Has a decent goalscoring record for a FB for what it's worth - 11 goals in 97 appearances in the Italian Serie A and 9 goals from 72 international caps.



Whilst it's fairly tight in the middle, it's the flanks which separate both teams imo.

Now Gio's instructions are to let

Zizinho will keep an eye on Branco advancing but should be well placed to get the better of him going forward.

I'm happy to be corrected here but Zizinho going up against Branco doesn't really sound like his game, nor does tracking back a wing-back appear to be up his alley. He was definitely a hard working player and I can see him pressing the likes of Godin, Zito etc and making his presence felt in the inside right channels/middle (ala Pedernera, Kempes etc) but asking him to 'keep an eye on Branco advancing' does seem like a tactical misfit. Like I stated I'm happy to stand corrected if he did a job on the right wing and was 'working the flanks'. From what I know about him, he is an exceptionally talented inside right who was predominantly a central player but someone with right flank tendencies - naturally as most of the 'inside forwards' from that era had to establish a partnership with their 'outside left/rights'. However, asking him to operate like an outside right, as per Gio's instructions in the OP, might not be the ideal use of him.

 

[Gio]

A few points on that tactical illustration. Firstly, it isn't how games of football generally take place. For starters, there is about a good 80 yards between opposing defensive lines, creating an illusion of loads of space in the middle of the park. Typically both defensive lines may be around 30 yards apart. It's the same principle with the width of the park - in play you'll often get both teams boxed in to a 40 yard space, or even much less if there's a transition such as a goal kick. Both teams shuffle across the park as play is moved horizontally across.

Secondly if Branco is about to receive the ball, as is the implication, then the whole team slides across the park as the ball is moved across. I've already spelled out how Zizinho is to work up and down and keep an eye on Branco advancing so it's a little disingenous to now place him the wrong side of Branco and out of the game as it were. It's not consistent with my instruction nor my formation graphic in the OP. Nobody is asking him to operate as an outside right - again the formation graphic is clear. He's in his very best inside-right position, the one he shone in as the best player in the world in the late 1940s. When he attacks it'll be generally through the inside-right channel and through the gap between Branco and Godin. Now Branco was never the greatest defender and he has some important defensive responsibility to shut out one of the greatest players of all time, the Golden Ball winner in 1950. If we are to highlight this 'match-up', it's clear who has the quality advantage and greater attacking threat.

Zizinho was the player I admired the most. He was fabulous. Everything about his game, whether it was his passing, shooting or positioning, was just spectacular. He was the complete player. He could play in midfield or up front. He could score. He was good on the ground and in the air and he could dribble better than anyone. He was a battler too. Whenever things got tough out there, he always stood tall.

Thirdly, this notion of full-backs staying on the defensive line all the time is completely outdated. In the modern game they all support the play and help to create space by filling in the wide channels on the park going forward. So typically with control of the ball, it will be Leandro who offers the width an old-school outside-right would provide. He's a fine attacking full-back capable of stretching the play. And in such situations it's up to Sosa to get back up the park, or find himself out of the game. I know us draft managers will think that I'm being reckless leaving Sosa behind, but in the modern, tactically evolved game, it's reckless to leave anyone the wrong side of the ball because with control of the ball there's far more damage that can be done. Capello called it the 9/1 principle - where 9 players have to work back and 1 gets to keep the defensive line honest. And anyway the whole idea behind Mauro Silva and Jaime Pizarro being positionally reserved is to enable width to be provided by the players best suited to do it, while maintaining a strong platform behind the ball. That's precisely how 4-2-3-1s work - everything swings on the double-pivot axis of the holding central midfielders.

Fourthly, if we discussing attacking width, the illustration above shows two designated wide players both coming inside, which doesn't marry up with how wide you are presenting your attack to be. We both have two natural wide players in Garrincha and Ronaldinho and we both have inside-forwards in my case or support strikers in your case. In practice it's fairly similar, the only negligible difference being Ronaldinho can cut in onto his stronger right (and you have Garrincha cutting in above anyway), but make no mistake he is starting from the same outside-left position he excelled in for Barcelona.

 

[Gio]

So tactically we are fairly similar. I prefer our midfield shape because we have a clearer unit of four who can assist in recovery and shuffle across the park as described above. On the other hand, Zito is going to be overworked in recovering the ball particularly up against such a potent attacking midfield unit.

And I feel we have a lot of quality in the squad. Ronaldinho (2003-2005), Zizinho (1940s to 1950), Erico (1937-1939), Pedernera (early 1940s) and Nasazzi (late 1920s and 1930) all have great shouts to have been considered the best player in the world at their respective peak season(s). In the opposition, only Garrincha (1962) and probably Kempes (1978) have reached the same Ballon D'Or equivalent level in their prime season(s).

 

[Joga Bonito]

Nobody is asking him to operate as an outside right - again the formation graphic is clear. He's in his very best inside-right position, the one he shone in as the best player in the world in the late 1940s.

I felt there was some discrepancy in the tactical instructions given how

Zizinho will keep an eye on Branco advancing but should be well placed to get the better of him going forward.

these tactical instructions are of someone whom you'd generally associate with a winger/outside-right or an inside forward at best. Asking an inside right to operate in that manner and keeping an eye on the attacking wing-back (with the most freedom on the pitch no less), seemed like a bit unfair to me, esp when the said inside right is also

Off the ball it's a big concern against the likes of Pedernera and Zizinho and Ronaldinho in that area.

but with Pedernera and Zizinho overloading in between the lines, it's a big ask for him and Zito to handle things.

overloading in between the lines and operating in the middle. Almost seemed like he was operating both as an inside right AND as an outside right/wide forward (as per the instructions in the OP), which didn't seem right to me.

I've already spelled out how Zizinho is to work up and down and keep an eye on Branco advancing so it's a little disingenous to now place him the wrong side of Branco and out of the game as it were.

When he attacks it'll be generally through the inside-right channel and through the gap between Branco and Godin.

Once again, it's a back 4 with a defensive and positionally reserved RB and a fairly pronounced LCB and a RCB, so how much of a gap is there going to be between Branco and Godin? It was precisely because of Zizinho operating in this inside right channels that Godin is playing as the LCB and Zito is being deployed as the LDM.

Now Branco was never the greatest defender and he has some important defensive responsibility to shut out one of the greatest players of all time, the Golden Ball winner in 1950. If we are to highlight this 'match-up', it's clear who has the quality advantage and greater attacking threat.

For Zizinho to be squaring up against Branco in a match-up, with the latter playing as a proper wing-back, he'd have to operating as a winger/outside forward or a modern inside forward (ala Robben) at best. For him to be operating in his usual 'inside-right' position (clearly a central player with tendencies on the right flank as I said earlier), I highly doubt he'd be coming up against Branco all that often, nor would he find himself on our right wing defensively. First of all, he's never had to do such a job in his career and I'm happy to be proven wrong on this matter. And secondly, I'd have to question his efficiency there, if he is doing such a job as per your descriptions, and also question how you are going to deal with Branco in this game.

know us draft managers will think that I'm being reckless leaving Sosa behind, but in the modern, tactically evolved game, it's reckless to leave anyone the wrong side of the ball because with control of the ball there's far more damage that can be done. Capello called it the 9/1 principle - where 9 players have to work back and 1 gets to keep the defensive line honest. And anyway the whole idea behind Mauro Silva and Jaime Pizarro being positionally reserved is to enable width to be provided by the players best suited to do it, while maintaining a strong platform behind the ball. That's precisely how 4-2-3-1s work - everything swings on the double-pivot axis of the holding central midfielders.

Yes, definitely the 2v1 card gets played too much in these drafts but there is some merit to that argument in this scenario. Firstly, you are playing two adventurous and 'swashbuckling' wing-backs in this game, which increases the tendency that they leave space behind and also increase their need for cover. Esp since, it's Gambetta and Leandro whom we are talking about here, the former a specialist half-back and the latter a wing-back primarily known for his attacking forays. Neither of whom are defensive specialists if we are being harsh here. Branco very well belongs in this category too and is an attacking wing-back who isn't a defensive specialist (ala N.Santos/Facchetti etc). As I have already expanded before, asking them to play as a wing-back only exacerbates the issue when they have an already tough match-up on their hands in Garrincha & Sosa, but they are needed offensively to provide crucial width in your tactical system. Moreover, you already have Pizarro in a distinct covering role for Gambetta which is fair enough but if Leandro himself requires cover on the right (with Silva presumable providing it), it does bring about questions as to how effective they will be in the middle (against an imposing trio of Zito-Veron-Kempes), if they have a significant covering role to play for BOTH their wing-backs.

Fourthly, if we discussing attacking width, the illustration above shows two designated wide players both coming inside, which doesn't marry up with how wide you are presenting your attack to be. We both have two natural wide players in Garrincha and Ronaldinho and we both have inside-forwards in my case or support strikers in your case.

Sosa, was a top notch modern inside forward on his day and not just a 'support striker' out wide. Someone who wasn't averse to taking on his full-back and beating him as the gif below shows.

Spoiler

Which is in stark contrast to Zizinho who was a predominantly central player (a classical inside forward) who hasn't played out wide like Sosa. I've seen nothing to indicate Zizinho as a modern inside forward (ala Robben/Stoichkov) or a wide forward, whereas this was the exact position in which Ruben Sosa won a Copa America in (1987) and was the player of the tournament in 1989.

Sosa won two Copa Américas where Enzo was the star, but single-handedly took us to the final in another which we lost (against Brazil, in Brazil, fecking Romario...). For a couple of years he eclipsed Francescoli as the best player, and I wouldn't say that lightly. Ultimately though it was a case of inside forwards vs. width, we've had phenomenal inside forwards so I opted for three at the back and wingbacks/halfbacks. Ghiggia and Sosa would be the ones on the wings if width were required.

Decidedly a sub at this stage. The only ones who walk into the first XI are Mazurkiewicz, Nasazzi, the two Andrades, Obdulio, Francescoli and Schiaffino. It's already difficult enough to try work out a way to accommodate both Francescoli and Schiaffino!

My alll-time XI remains the same:

That front four takes the piss and would be beautiful to watch, but I guess the more balanced and historically representative team would have two CMs and wide forwards. Suárez edges Míguez then:

 

[Joga Bonito]

Funnily enough Gambetta makes neither of the all-time XIs here which led me to do some digging in the thread in which anto posted him in his all-time XI.

Cracking sides from Denmark and Brasil so far.

Uruguay:

Mazurkiewicz
Nasazzi----Santamaria
Andrade-------Varela-------Gambetta
Scarone---Rocha---Schiaffino
Morena---Francescoli
​

Tells you the whole story when the only player I can realistically pick from the last couple of decades is Enzo

Which he then follows it up with this,

Reasonable option, I'm still stumped as far as Italian wingers go (considering Conti could play either side). But then the attacking RB dilemma comes up... It's good to see Italy also struggling to maintain the quality across the board, I was completely at a loss as far as Uruguayan leftbacks went, even considered throwing Montero out there or else it was Caceres/Pereira.

Then I realised I may as well play the way our great sides played and up came Gambetta: the man the dribble is named after in the Spanish speaking world

I found it intriguing as this was the first time I'd ever seen Gambetta feature in an all time Uruguayan XI as most of them feature the V.Andrade on the left and J.Andrade on the right. Fair to say he never features, in any of anto's others all time XIs (like the ones above), in any position.

So tactically we are fairly similar.

Have to disagree with that, there are lots of difference between either team (right from the wing-backs, the central midfield pairing, second-striker vs playmaker, inside right vs winger etc)

And I feel we have a lot of quality in the squad. Ronaldinho (2003-2005), Zizinho (1940s to 1950), Erico (1937-1939), Pedernera (early 1940s) and Nasazzi (late 1920s and 1930) all have great shouts to have been considered the best player in the world at their respective peak season(s). In the opposition, only Garrincha (1962) and probably Kempes (1978) have reached the same Ballon D'Or equivalent level in their prime season(s).

There's plenty of oomph in your attack and attacking midfield as many have rightly pointed out. Not that ours is lacking by any means with Garrincha and Kempes being 2 of the only 3 players in the history of the game to win the WC Golden Ball and Golden Boot in the same WC. Garrincha is the best attacking player on the pitch and the finest winger (alongside Best) to ever grace a football pitch. Likewise, Kempes who is Valencia's greatest player ever and the guy who 'put Argentina on the map' as Maradona put it aptly, with his stunning performances in the 1978 WC. Let's not forget Sosa who was the Copa America Player of the Tournament in a fiercely fought edition in 1989, which included the likes of Maradona, Romario and Francescoli amongst others. He was brilliant for Lazio and Inter in the ridiculously competitive Serie A of the late 80s and early 90s, going up against some of the greatest defenders of all time, scoring 84 goals in 200 matches, and he boasts a fantastic tally of 44 goals in 76 games for Inter at his peak. Not much needs to be said about Morena, apart from the fact that he is one of the greatest centre-forwards to come out of South America and his records speaks volumes. He also features in anto's all-time XI .

Now, if we compare the quality of both teams on show here (not a fan of that and would much rather compare match-ups) whilst your attack is brilliant and has the edge over us, our midfield and defense (including the goalie) has the edge here quality wise imo. Now I don't want to post a combined XI, as it's going to be biased, naturally, but whilst you do have some great attackers in your side as you rightly point out, the overall quality differential of both sides ain't much and it's up to the neutral to decide I suppose.

 

[Gio]

I've not got enough time to further detail the way full-backs and central midfielders are involved in phases of play in the modern game. Suffice to say though that we spend too much time focusing on individual match-ups - as if the ball is going to land randomly out of the sky anywhere on the park - and too little on different phases of play. But anyway, a discussion for another day and in the meantime will continue in the match-up vein:

It's important to highlight the strength of our attack. It is a cut above the opposition's and only Garrincha would get into our front four. Not only that, the best striker on the park Arsenio Erico is up against the relatively weaker central defensive partnership. And he's got the endlessly creative service from Ronaldinho, Pedernera and Zizinho feeding him.

I agree that Garrincha is the best route to goal for the opposition. But I'd add that Schubert Gambetta is one of the best full-backs in South American football, not in the exclusive top tier (Nilton, Djalma, Carlos, Cafu, Zanetti), but well established in the upper end of the second tier. He' makes many all-time XIs of a country that has a tremendous pedigree in producing world-class defenders, usually depending if J.L. Andrade goes in at right-back or in midfield. He is generally considered one of the finest full-backs of the 1940s. He started a World Cup final at left-back against a Brazilian attack that had blasted 13 goals in their last two games. And who better to review that performance than the goalkeeper behind that great defensive line:

Schubert Gambetta was the hero of the Maracana - he had everything. Temperament, class, confidence, infectious belief. With people like that it was impossible to lose.

Specialist left-back or not, if he can perform like that in that pressure cooker, the highest attendance ever recorded at a match of 205,000, against such a powerful attack, and backed up by the best possible witness to that display, then he can hold his own here.

 

[Moby]

I think Joga is correct in pointing out that it is unfair to mention Zizinho in combining with the attacking midfield and dominating the Zito-Veron midfield AND exposing Branco at the back. I bought the former which was one of the reasons for me voting for Gio as I think that attacking trio with Erico up top will ultimately be too difficult to stop but one man cannot be at two places for most of the game.

 

[Joga Bonito]

It's important to highlight the strength of our attack. It is a cut above the opposition's and only Garrincha would get into our front four. Not only that, the best striker on the park Arsenio Erico is up against the relatively weaker central defensive partnership. And he's got the endlessly creative service from Ronaldinho, Pedernera and Zizinho feeding him.

It's also important to highlight the strength of our defense with only Nasazzi getting into our defense, likewise in midfield where I'd say Veron-Zito are a cut above Pizarro-Silva.

Not only that, the best striker on the park Arsenio Erico is up against the relatively weaker central defensive partnership. And he's got the endlessly creative service from Ronaldinho, Pedernera and Zizinho feeding him.

Tbf, the best player on the pitch is up against the relatively weakest FB on the pitch. And whilst Ronaldinho, Pedernera and Zizinho face significant resistance and are fairly well-matched, Garrincha and the flank of Sosa-Branco aren't imo, all relatively of course. Whilst you have the better attack in this match-up, I'd say our attack has the higher chance of outscoring yours relative to both sides and their respective set-ups.

He' makes many all-time XIs of a country

Any other all-time XIs which features Gambetta in it, let alone him at LB? I would definitely be interested in them.

that has a tremendous pedigree in producing world-class defenders,

World class defenders yes, but there is a serious dearth of LBs as anto himself pointed out and he himself openly admits he picked Gambetta as a last resort, out of his association with the great 1950 side no less.

Reasonable option, I'm still stumped as far as Italian wingers go (considering Conti could play either side). But then the attacking RB dilemma comes up... It's good to see Italy also struggling to maintain the quality across the board, I was completely at a loss as far as Uruguayan leftbacks went, even considered throwing Montero out there or else it was Caceres/Pereira.

Then I realised I may as well play the way our great sides played and up came Gambetta: the man the dribble is named after in the Spanish speaking world

Specialist left-back or not, if he can perform like that in that pressure cooker, the highest attendance ever recorded at a match of 205,000, against such a powerful attack, and backed up by the best possible witness to that display, then he can hold his own here.

Gambetta most certainly deserves a lot of credit for that performance, but it's one thing playing in a shut-out defensive side and playing as a purely defensive left-back in an extremely reserved role against Friaca in a custom defensive line featuring a back 4 + Varela, and a whole different ball game altogether playing as an attacking left wing-back in an adventurous side against Garrincha, the greatest right winger of all time (alongside Best).

It's spurious to draw parallels and state he can hold his own here on the basis of that performance alone when the circumstances couldn't be any different.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Great game @Gio . One of the few that we wanted to avoid in the first round with your drool-worthy attack.

 

[Enigma_87]

Aye, great drafting as well @Gio always enjoy the games with you, regardless of the outcome.

 

[Gio]

Well done lads.

Garrincha was the difference here. During the drafting process I mulled over what potential options there would be to stop other teams' respective threats. I decided that Garrincha was the greatest threat by some distance because he is practically unplayable in this pool as there is no left-back who you would fancy to stop him. From the top tier there is Nilton Santos and Roberto Carlos, but the latter wouldn't convince the draft regulars defensively, and anyone who had read Ruy Castro's book on Garrincha will know that Nilton really struggled against Garrincha in training. To the point where he had to tell the flying winger to go easy on him as Nilton was in danger of losing his place in the NT squad to a more youthful alternative. I had planned to secure defensive freelancer Victor Andrade early on but Tuppet nipped in and grabbed him while I was balls deep in Erico. He would have been the most convincing man in the pool to do a job on Garrincha, but it didn't seem sensible to sacrifice a player of that calibre to secure a defensively robust full-back who may not be required against a lot of the narrow attacks that were under development.

Therefore the sensible thing to do was to take my 93% chance of avoiding getting drawn against Enigma/Joga.

Having been drawn against Engima/Joga, I mulled over whether to significantly adapt my approach to counter Garrincha's threat. Specifically this would have involved drafting Aspe, as a dynamic, defensively strong and naturally left-sided midfielder to sit in front of Gambetta at left-back. In a real game this probably would have proved very effective in pragmatically killing that flank. But it would have required sacrificing a top attacking midfielder in either Pedernera or Zizinho and would have created a lopsided formation that the scan-voters wouldn't enjoy.

In reality that would have worked very well IMO, but it would be handing the initiative to Enigma/Joga even if it curtailed Garrincha's threat. Going forward they'll take some stopping given the lack of credible direct resistance in the American pool.

 

[Enigma_87]

Well done lads.

Garrincha was the difference here. During the drafting process I mulled over what potential options there would be to stop other teams' respective threats. I decided that Garrincha was the greatest threat by some distance because he is practically unplayable in this pool as there is no left-back who you would fancy to stop him. From the top tier there is Nilton Santos and Roberto Carlos, but the latter wouldn't convince the draft regulars defensively, and anyone who had read Ruy Castro's book on Garrincha will know that Nilton really struggled against Garrincha in training. To the point where he had to tell the flying winger to go easy on him as Nilton was in danger of losing his place in the NT squad to a more youthful alternative. I had planned to secure defensive freelancer Victor Andrade early on but Tuppet nipped in and grabbed him while I was balls deep in Erico. He would have been the most convincing man in the pool to do a job on Garrincha, but it didn't seem sensible to sacrifice a player of that calibre to secure a defensively robust full-back who may not be required against a lot of the narrow attacks that were under development.

I agree mate, Garrincha made the difference.There are not many LB's in the pool that are capable of handling him and probably a more balanced LB paired with a hard working LW is a better match. Gambetta however IMO is not the right fit, not only in positional sense - being on the left, but also he just doesn't have the defensive acumen to handle him IMO. He's more of an attacking full back, even wing back and also quite versatile, but not appropriate to counter that danger. The DL pool is really short so I understand where you are coming from. Nilton really struggled as well in his first encounter with Garrincha when the latter was brought on for a training session as a trial at Botafogo, putting the ball between Nilton's legs which led to Santos taking him to the club chairman to ask them to buy Garrincha so he doesn't have to face him on club level.

Therefore the sensible thing to do was to take my 93% chance of avoiding getting drawn against Enigma/Joga.

Having been drawn against Engima/Joga, I mulled over whether to significantly adapt my approach to counter Garrincha's threat. Specifically this would have involved drafting Aspe, as a dynamic, defensively strong and naturally left-sided midfielder to sit in front of Gambetta at left-back. In a real game this probably would have proved very effective in pragmatically killing that flank. But it would have required sacrificing a top attacking midfielder in either Pedernera or Zizinho and would have created a lopsided formation that the scan-voters wouldn't enjoy.

In reality that would have worked very well IMO, but it would be handing the initiative to Enigma/Joga even if it curtailed Garrincha's threat. Going forward they'll take some stopping given the lack of credible direct resistance in the American pool.

I still think here Gambetta will be a problem - again won't be equipped to handle Garrincha and in this case you are sacrificing his attacking game, which IMO is what his role should be based on.

IMO with Gambetta as a left back probably you would've gone 5-3-2 with Bellini/Lugano/Nasazzi as CB's - Gambetta/Leandro as full backs.

Something like this:

-----------------GK---------------
------Bellini---Nasazzi--Lugano-----
Leandro-------------------Gambetta
---------M.Silva----Pizarro----------
-----Zizinho------Ronaldinho-------
----------Erico--------------------

probably something like this.

You get more width in more free roles of your wing backs and Pizarro capable of covering on the left with Ronnie and Erico up field.

but then I agree that we will have the initiative especially in the middle of the park and I'm not sure Lugano/Bellini is still appropriate way to go against Garrincha.

But yeah I think you have been unfortunate mate having in mind your drafting theme to draw us or Jairzinho for that matter, having in mind the other narrow sides in the draft.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Well done lads.

Cheers.

Garrincha was the difference here. During the drafting process I mulled over what potential options there would be to stop other teams' respective threats. I decided that Garrincha was the greatest threat by some distance because he is practically unplayable in this pool as there is no left-back who you would fancy to stop him. From the top tier there is Nilton Santos and Roberto Carlos, but the latter wouldn't convince the draft regulars defensively

Agreed, one of the prime reasons why we were delighted to nab Garrincha.

In a real game this probably would have proved very effective in pragmatically killing that flank. But it would have required sacrificing a top attacking midfielder in either Pedernera or Zizinho and would have created a lopsided formation that the scan-voters wouldn't enjoy.

In reality that would have worked very well IMO, but it would be handing the initiative to Enigma/Joga even if it curtailed Garrincha's threat.

Interesting set-up and I can see the merits behind it but like you've pointed out it does hand over the initiative to us whilst watering down your attacking threat with the dropping of Pedernera which wouldn't be ideal. Think you went with the right set-up in the end imo.

 

[harms]

Nilton really struggled as well in his first encounter with Garrincha when the latter was brought on for a training session as a trial at Botafogo, putting the ball between Nilton's legs which led to Santos taking him to the club chairman to ask them to buy Garrincha so he doesn't have to face him on club level.

Many of those myths about Garrincha proved to be false later on though, most famously the ones about "Johns" and the one about N. Santos & others asking Feola to pick him for 1958 WC, so I would take this story with a pinch of salt myself. Especially with Santos, who said that he just said what people wanted to hear - and people wanted to hear fairytales about their hero, of course.

 

[harms]

Therefore the sensible thing to do was to take my 93% chance of avoiding getting drawn against Enigma/Joga.

Yep, really unlucky. Interesting to see how other managers will contain Garrincha now.

 

[Ecstatic]

Wow @Gio has lost

Sorry. Busy week. I will read this thread tomorrow.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Yep, really unlucky. Interesting to see how other managers will contain Garrincha now.

Yes - very.

Personally, I don't think I'd go to any extreme lengths to shut him up - he isn't Di Stefano, which is why he wasn't blocked here. I'd probably focus on maxing out my own attacking potential rather than worrying too much about an individual player.

 

[Enigma_87]

Many of those myths about Garrincha proved to be false later on though, most famously the ones about "Johns" and the one about N. Santos & others asking Feola to pick him for 1958 WC, so I would take this story with a pinch of salt myself. Especially with Santos, who said that he just said what people wanted to hear - and people wanted to hear fairytales about their hero, of course.

Well I remember it from the football greatest series here:


It was Amarildo who said it. It begins around the 8th minute mark, when Zagallo starts to narrate about the trials and then Amarildo confirms it so probably there is some truth in it

 

[Ecstatic]

Gio's front four!

Yeah, fantastic front 4: maybe the best pool 2 striker, pedernera (la maquina), zizinho & ronnie. A very impressive empire.

I guess the battle Garrincha-Gambetta has been the main driver amongst the voters.

Unfortunately, there is maybe a gap in terms of quality between Nazazzi & the other defensive players.

Big surprise in the sense that Gio was amongst the favourites to win the draft.