The Academy restructuring thread

Welcome back Sbragia. He was very successful in his first spell as the manager, we were winning trophies left, right and centre.

As for Hough's appointment, does this mean he'll no longer be the physio for the first team?
 
Acole9 said:
Welcome back Sbragia. He was very successful in his first spell as the manager, we were winning trophies left, right and centre.

As for Hough's appointment, does this mean he'll no longer be the physio for the first team?
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Yes.
 
So now we look for an U18 coach again.

Just reading the first page of this thread and predictably there was moaning about Butt being given such a job.
 
KM said:
So now we look for an U18 coach again.

Just reading the first page of this thread and predictably there was moaning about Butt being given such a job.
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Which is a shame because we were just becoming a force again at U18 level with McKenna.

Who would the candidates be, do you think?
 
dr.twinny said:
I take it Sbragia will still be in charge for the u23s next season? Pity if true.
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The whole u23 system in England is a farce anyway and is seldom an accurate reflection of how well an academy is doing. The u18's are far more important IMO.
 
limerickcitykid said:
How? Truth is the u23s is a higher level than u18s and is just as important.
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If you look at the English teams who have produced and/or transitioned the most academy prospects into high level first team football i.e. Southampton, Spurs and United, their u23s are doing relatively poorly and Nicky Butt for all his faults summed up why in an interview with the BBC last month.
"If you are not around the first team at 20 or 21 you're not going to be, it's a fact," he said.

"We are expected to develop players for Manchester United and bring them into the first team. In that respect, I think the academy is thriving massively," says Butt

"The key development tools here are the academy and under-18s", because much of the under-23s set-up is fractured by other factors."

He estimates that at any given time in a 20-man under-23s squad, five players may be training with the first team, another five will be out on loan and the remaining 10 will be bolstered by teenagers who have outgrown the under-18s.

"That is fine if everyone else is doing it," says Butt. But the truth is they are not. For some clubs, success at under-23 level is about winning games, not necessarily developing players.
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And he's right. What's the point in having successful u23 sides like Chelsea and City when there's seemingly now pathway to the first team? Shouldn't the primary purpose of your academy be to produce players for the parent club? That's where our priorities are and as far as I'm concerned, it's working better for us than our nearest rivals.
 
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MrPooni said:
If you look at the English teams who have produced and/or transitioned the most academy prospects into high level first team football i.e. Southampton, Spurs and United, their u23s are doing relatively poorly and Nicky Butt for all his faults summed up why in an interview with the BBC last month.


And he's right. What's the point in having successful u23 sides like Chelsea and City when there's seemingly now pathway to the first team? Shouldn't the primary purpose of your academy be to produce players for the parent club? That's where our priorities are and as far as I'm concerned, it's working.
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We have probably the most successful u23s team in the country so that is a shit excuse. Spurs and Southampton haven't even produced that much from their academies either but anyway they've both had some very strong u23s teams in recent years.

Nicky's points don't even make sense either. If you are 21, but what 21 year olds are playing the u23s? Basically none, so its a shit point.

The u23s is fractured. Then so is the u18s. The best u18s play u23s and move up during the season so the u18s are losing players. Another pretty shit point.

Umm... what? All the successful u23 sides like City and Chelsea? Neither of them has won a single u21/23s title in years while we have won several. So once again, shit point as it isn't even based on a factual point. Either way City's and Chelsea's lack of pathway to the first team has absolutely no relevance to the u18s somehow being better than u23s so I'm not sure why you are even trying to mention that.

u23s is about winning games and not developing players, so like first team football then? That's laughable to try use as a point that u18s is more important. The u21s under Joyce were about winning, being tactically trained, and being professional and it was the most important step in players coming through. The u18s are kids and Joyce made them men in the u21s.

The u23s league has many problems but there is no doubt that it is still way closer to first team football than u18s is. The best 17-18 year olds in the country play in the u23s and not the u18s because the u23s is better. The talent level is higher, the tactical level is higher, yes the importance of winning is higher, a key component of development is winning.

We've had a shit season in the u23s. This of course happens due to the cyclical nature of youth football, just as we had some very poor u18s seasons in recent times. There is no need for the constant bullshit excuses from people that u18s is somehow more important when it just blatantly isn't true.
 
SirFergie said:
Which is a shame because we were just becoming a force again at U18 level with McKenna.

Who would the candidates be, do you think?
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If we don't bring somebody in i'd imagine Colin Little(KM's assistant)would be the front-runner, though Neil Ryan(u16 coach ?) or Hasney Aljofree(u14)might be in with a shout

Does anybody know if Marek Szmid is still involved with the Academy, and in what capacity ?
 
MrPooni said:
The whole u23 system in England is a farce anyway and is seldom an accurate reflection of how well an academy is doing. The u18's are far more important IMO.
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Yep. But apparently our forum football experts know better than the guy who has been charged with restructuring the Academy.

It’s no coincidence that the more promising young coaches are with the u18s at their clubs.
 
datura said:
It’s no coincidence that the more promising young coaches are with the u18s at their clubs.
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Are they though? Vieira has just been told he'll be Pep's replacement and he was u21s manager. And no it isn't a surprise that young inexperienced coaches start in the tactically naive u18s compared to a stronger tactical u23s where winning becomes important.

The best players play in the u23s not the u18s. It's quite simple. You can keep lying to yourself all you want.
 
Class of 63 said:
If we don't bring somebody in i'd imagine Colin Little(KM's assistant)would be the front-runner, though Neil Ryan(u16 coach ?) or Hasney Aljofree(u14)might be in with a shout

Does anybody know if Marek Szmid is still involved with the Academy, and in what capacity ?
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Szmid is the assistant head of education & welfare
 
GroteBergMan98 said:
I doubt it, I think he's been a stopgap for the time being and hopefully we have chosen to appoint someone at the end of the season because their contract runs out then.
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Great to know.

Any interesting names being banded about for the u18 and u23 roles then? I remember we were linked with the former Chelsea u23 manager (can't remember his name at the moment). Is he still available?
 
dr.twinny said:
Yeah I think that's the one. Would he be a good appointment if available in your opinion?
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The timing of his leaving Chelsea was ideal for him to replace Warren Joyce as u23 Manager, but I don't think he was even interviewed for the job(might be wide of the mark with that), if he's still available(he was linked with a job at Coventry)he'd be a better fit than Ricky Sbragia, and at 48 more long-term.
 
Class of 63 said:
The timing of his leaving Chelsea was ideal for him to replace Warren Joyce as u23 Manager, but I don't think he was even interviewed for the job(might be wide of the mark with that), if he's still available(he was linked with a job at Coventry)he'd be a better fit than Ricky Sbragia, and at 48 more long-term.
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Why is that? What's his footballing philosophy?
 
limerickcitykid said:
Are they though? Vieira has just been told he'll be Pep's replacement and he was u21s manager. And no it isn't a surprise that young inexperienced coaches start in the tactically naive u18s compared to a stronger tactical u23s where winning becomes important.

The best players play in the u23s not the u18s. It's quite simple. You can keep lying to yourself all you want.
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Where are you reading this? I just read a report that Arsenal want to make Arteta their next manager and given the fact that Pep has just signed a new contract till 2021, it seems bullshit to me.
 
dr.twinny said:
Why is that? What's his footballing philosophy?
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Don't know about his Philosophy, but he's Managed at various levels at Chelsea and been very successful, and most of their teams below the first team are good to watch, no, sorry I worded that wrong, I meant Adi would be a better fit as in he knew the Leagues and players as apposed to somebody coming in who was new to the League as has been rumoured.

He's assistant to Mark Robins at Coventry at the minute, though only whilst the No.2 recovers from illness.
 
KM said:
Where are you reading this? I just read a report that Arsenal want to make Arteta their next manager and given the fact that Pep has just signed a new contract till 2021, it seems bullshit to me.
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They have already appointed a manager.
 
Class of 63 said:
Don't know about his Philosophy, but he's Managed at various levels at Chelsea and been very successful, and most of their teams below the first team are good to watch, no, sorry I worded that wrong, I meant Adi would be a better fit as in he knew the Leagues and players as apposed to somebody coming in who was new to the League as has been rumoured.

He's assistant to Mark Robins at Coventry at the minute, though only whilst the No.2 recovers from illness.
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Ok thanks. Doubt he'll want to go back to managing at the u23s level after now being a first team coach.
 
That's a great move as France really looks to have the best young players in the world. Hopefully there is someone scouting in Spain Germany and Belgium too as those countries also have great youth systems.
 
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