The “Ole In” Brigade

lex talionis said:
It’s possible to be critical of individual decisions, large and small, and still support management in its support of Ole.

We’re going in the right direction. To even think, let alone publicly opine, about sacking Ole right now is madness.
Click to expand...
I think the majority of people agree with you and have this stance. To even consider sacking Ole when you look at the facts is impossible.

However, when he was interim, there was a section of our support who wanted us to LOSE a game while on that unbeaten run just so they could see how Ole “got the team to bounce back”. It’s become clear now they just didn’t want him to get the job at all because he wasn’t a fancy name, and they’re carrying on that same narrative now with lots of moving of goalposts.
 
I don't get the logic of it being too soon to praise him when it clearly isn't too soon to criticise him. It has to work both ways.

I still don't think his game management is particularly great, but we're a much better team than when he took over. You can argue the progress has been slow but if the club had signed the players he wanted when he wanted them to the improvement might have been quicker. Having Fernandes at the start of last season instead of having to limp to Christmas relying on Lingard and Pereira for example.
 
Dominos said:
It's debateable, Mourinho got 81 points and at least reached the CL knockouts. I'm not convinced this team will better that (they've already failed on the CL front), it's just that we're lucky City won't get 100 points this season to make us look bad. We could win the league with 80 points this year.
Click to expand...

The football that team played was abysmal and we didn’t score goals in line with our rivals: one look at how we actually played and it was obvious that the team was destined for failure. This team is comfortably better.
 
Fletchageddon said:
Can anyone remember the last days of Jose?
Click to expand...


gettyimages11448-43b078e61013a8d9a3ec4760e72ef986-1200x800.jpg
 
Dominos said:
It's debateable, Mourinho got 81 points and at least reached the CL knockouts. I'm not convinced this team will better that (they've already failed on the CL front), it's just that we're lucky City won't get 100 points this season to make us look bad. We could win the league with 80 points this year.
Click to expand...

It is debatable, but this United team play much more entertaining football and are actually starting to play the 'United way' again. Mourinho didn't fit the United tradition and played very pragmatic football.

Points don't always tell who was a better team either. Leicester in their PL win finished on 81 points, whereas United in 1999 treble win only finished on 78 PL points.

The United team in 08/09 CL, PL double win finished on 90 points, and if points alone determine the better team that means this double winning team with Rooney, Ronaldo and co are only the joint 8th best team in PL history. That team is probably the best ever PL team, if anyone said there were 7 better PL winning teams then that would be ludicrous and they would be laughed at.
 
reelworld said:
So if Ole won the league then everybody who doubt him can't change their opinions? That's bonkers
Click to expand...

You're reaching now, winning the league? Lets see where we are come April before there's any of that talk.

Fact is we're the start of January and so anyone who wanted him sacked in November shouldn't be blinded by a good couple of weeks in December and likewise those who have seen the good in the work he was doing shouldn't be blinded if we run into a bad patch in February (on whenever it may be)

If you flip flop as regular as the weather as I said before dont be surprised when people call you out
 
crossy1686 said:
I think the majority of people agree with you and have this stance. To even consider sacking Ole when you look at the facts is impossible.

However, when he was interim, there was a section of our support who wanted us to LOSE a game while on that unbeaten run just so they could see how Ole “got the team to bounce back”. It’s become clear now they just didn’t want him to get the job at all because he wasn’t a fancy name, and they’re carrying on that same narrative now with lots of moving of goalposts.
Click to expand...

That’s a fukked up way to approach life, almost like hoping you catch your wife getting boned by the pool boy just so you can have a reason to divorce her.

Here we are now. All you Ole Outters, why not get on the train and ride it as long as it lasts? If and when it goes south, then go ahead and moan then.
 
Well, here's the points table comparison for each season since Sir Alex. I'm marked in red the numbers that represent games with less points than our current total. I.E. Last season it took till match day 22 to have more points than we do now.

We're behind on Joses 2nd place finish season (17-18) but ahead of all the other seasons by at least 2 games.
​
Games Played20-2119-2018-1917-1816-1715-1614-1513-14
16​
33​
24​
26​
35​
27​
29​
31​
25​
17​
​
25​
26​
38​
30​
29​
32​
28​
18​
​
25​
29​
41​
33​
29​
35​
31​
19​
​
28​
32​
42​
36​
30​
36​
34​
20​
​
31​
35​
43​
39​
33​
37​
34​
21​
​
31​
38​
44​
40​
34​
37​
37​
22​
​
34​
41​
47​
41​
37​
40​
37​
 
charlenefan said:
so how many defeats before you flip flop again?
Click to expand...

When we lose games we should be winning regularly. Leicester game, I said there is nothing much he can do. Right now he is doing well even with games we do not win. Like the Leicester game. I was never one for Poch. I do not think he is going to do any better. Ole seems to be learning on the job too. His talks are now different. You can see from his post match. His subs are coming a lot earlier now too. Now he needs to bring about changes to win against teams who try to sit back and dominate teams. Hopefully he will get some money to buy a DM in the January window. If he gets better than last year then it is a progress as I have said before. Whether he can win the PL is still doubtful. I do not care if he wins the PL this season or not. If we can get second place then it is a huge progress. He is not making the mistakes he made before. Our corners are different now too. The game plan is different and now as Bruno and Ole said we need to see out games a lot better. At least they now talk about it. Next is the implementation. It is too easy to say what is going to happen end of the season but for sure we need a couple of players.
I think he needs to find a better combination up front for games against teams who sit back. Maybe drop Rashford and play Martial and Cavani up front?
 
Even without trophies he's the best manager post Fergie. The best part is that we seem to only be getting better, unlike under the other coaches. That is the most important part at the end of the day.

He's created a team of fighters who are entertaining to watch. He keeps a cool head and gives the media no ammunition what-so-ever. And now we're averaging 2.1 points per game and have the same amount of points as the leaders. Imagine if we had a consistent goalscorer like Cole, RVN, Rooney, Ronaldo or RVP. We'd be flying.
 
RedSky said:
Well, here's the points table comparison for each season since Sir Alex. I'm marked in red the numbers that represent games with less points than our current total. I.E. Last season it took till match day 22 to have more points than we do now.

We're behind on Joses 2nd place finish season (17-18) but ahead of all the other seasons by at least 2 games.
​
Games Played20-2119-2018-1917-1816-1715-1614-1513-14
16​
33​
24​
26​
35​
27​
29​
31​
25​
17​
​
25​
26​
38​
30​
29​
32​
28​
18​
​
25​
29​
41​
33​
29​
35​
31​
19​
​
28​
32​
42​
36​
30​
36​
34​
20​
​
31​
35​
43​
39​
33​
37​
34​
21​
​
31​
38​
44​
40​
34​
37​
37​
22​
​
34​
41​
47​
41​
37​
40​
37​
Click to expand...

Thanks for this.
I appreciate the effort taken.

I’m just a bit doubtful about comparing points totals across different seasons. Each season is different and winning one league with 80 points can be a bigger achievement than winning the next one with 100 points. It mostly depends on how good the likes of Palace, Southampton, Wolves etc are in a given season.

The key difference between this year and others is that this year we are in a battle for top spot. Despite what we might have thought in 17/18, we were miles away,
 
We were never in the hunt with Jose anyway. This year it is onto us to keep it going. We are good enough to beat any team when we play well. The problem is that lots of time in the past we have had been bad. Now we seems to start on the front foot and we need to finish off teams. Actually I won't be too disappointed even if we lose to Pool but hoping that we can nick a win. What frustrates me is that our forwards are as good as any yet the mess up individually. This is why we do not win as many matches as we should have won.
 
lex talionis said:
Here we are now. All you Ole Outters, why not get on the train and ride it as long as it lasts? If and when it goes south, then go ahead and moan then.
Click to expand...

I'm a Glazers out DoF in guy, which amounts to Ole out in the medium term.

That said there is no case for Ole Out right now. He is pretty much doing as well as he could in the circumstances and we're playing watchable football. But of course you lose Bruno and it all goes south again.
 
glazed said:
I'm a Glazers out DoF in guy, which amounts to Ole out in the medium term.

That said there is no case for Ole Out right now. He is pretty much doing as well as he could in the circumstances and we're playing watchable football. But of course you lose Bruno and it all goes south again.
Click to expand...

I'm a "wouldn't mind the glazers out if a better owner could afford us, maybe get a DOF in after Ole is done with us, in 20 or 25 years".
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
It is debatable, but this United team play much more entertaining football and are actually starting to play the 'United way' again. Mourinho didn't fit the United tradition and played very pragmatic football.

Points don't always tell who was a better team either. Leicester in their PL win finished on 81 points, whereas United in 1999 treble win only finished on 78 PL points.

The United team in 08/09 CL, PL double win finished on 90 points, and if points alone determine the better team that means this double winning team with Rooney, Ronaldo and co are only the joint 8th best team in PL history. That team is probably the best ever PL team, if anyone said there were 7 better PL winning teams then that would be ludicrous and they would be laughed at.
Click to expand...
It's not the only factor but it matters, neither league position or points total alone can tell the whole story.

There's no chance Leicester's title winners for example are a better football team than 18/19 Liverpool who finished 2nd on 97 points, no chance.
 
I don't think we'll win the league this season, and I wont be disappointed if we don't, I didnt expect us to. But we're in a great position right now, so I will hope.

Given where we are, and the improvement in both the squad and playing style since he took over I cant see any reason why anyone would argue that Ole doesn't deserve more time. People want an instant solution to a problem that's been 10 years in the making.

The thing I'm most encouraged by is the standards and attitude of Utd seem to be being reintroduced.

I read Carricks biography again recently, where he spoke about the pressure he felt to deliver when he arrived at Utd, and the culture and arrogance of those Fergie players, its something I think we've missed, we've signed players who thought Utd should be privileged to have them rather than players who should feel privileged to play for Manchester United.

That's something only Ole, Carrick, Phelan can instill, and right now it seems to be bearing fruit.

It's something neither Van Gaal, nor Mourinho could do as they tried to bend the club to their vision.
 
Matriac said:
I'm a "wouldn't mind the glazers out if a better owner could afford us, maybe get a DOF in after Ole is done with us, in 20 or 25 years".
Click to expand...

I fear it's optimistic. Ole has gone on strong runs before. But I agree things are looking positive on many fronts and that cannot be ignored. If the club starts to compete at the highest level despite the Glazers I will be amazed but delighted. But I suspect we're just looking at a standard Ole run combined with the weirdness of the Covid football calendar hobbling Pep and Klopp from running away with it as usual.
 
Anyone saying there weren’t times when things looked tenuous is crazy, but it’s a lesson to all of us that doubted him. Football can move so quickly. The European results were so frustrating, and after the terrible start (which can’t just be written off), I was doubting him. We looked terrible in some games, even when winning.

But seeing how healthy the squad is and how the players never gave up playing and fighting for him has cemented it for me.

I am now fully behind him regardless of any blips. No coach is perfect, but his squad building has been tremendous and there are signs that he is getting better and making better in game decisions. That is really positive.

I have gone from supporting the team and wanting a change of coach, to supporting the team and worrying about the coach, to supporting the team and being really happy with the coach.

I never wanted us to lose and I continued to watch every game and support the team. I am just so happy it is working out for Ole, and honestly, I’m enjoying it more because of him and his personality.

I love how he has come back from adversity and kept fighting and building a really talented squad of players has been central to that. Results are just confirming what he has been building.

Long may it continue!
 
charlenefan said:
You're reaching now, winning the league? Lets see where we are come April before there's any of that talk.

Fact is we're the start of January and so anyone who wanted him sacked in November shouldn't be blinded by a good couple of weeks in December and likewise those who have seen the good in the work he was doing shouldn't be blinded if we run into a bad patch in February (on whenever it may be)

If you flip flop as regular as the weather as I said before dont be surprised when people call you out
Click to expand...
You said that we should already have an opinion on Ole and should not change it regardless of results.
I don't know what would happen in the next 23 matches and neither do you.
But at some point if he keeps winning, don't you think those who against him should change their minds?
And like wise the other way around if he suddenly starting to lose matches
 
Maluco said:
Anyone saying there weren’t times when things looked tenuous is crazy, but it’s a lesson to all of us that doubted him. Football can move so quickly. The European results were so frustrating, and after the terrible start (which can’t just be written off), I was doubting him. We looked terrible in some games, even when winning.

But seeing how healthy the squad is and how the players never gave up playing and fighting for him has cemented it for me.

I am now fully behind him regardless of any blips. No coach is perfect, but his squad building has been tremendous and there are signs that he is getting better and making better in game decisions. That is really positive.

I have gone from supporting the team and wanting a change of coach, to supporting the team and worrying about the coach, to supporting the team and being really happy with the coach.

I never wanted us to lose and I continued to watch every game and support the team. I am just so happy it is working out for Ole, and honestly, I’m enjoying it more because of him and his personality.

I love how he has come back from adversity and kept fighting and building a really talented squad of players has been central to that. Results are just confirming what he has been building.

Long may it continue!
Click to expand...

I can really respect someone with this sort of outlook.

I have been on a similar journey to you albeit I have backed the manager throughout To varying degrees, but have definitely had some crises of faith in some of the lows.

Right now I am thoroughly enjoying the football and looking forward to the rest of the season!
 
I am still firmly in “ole out” brigade but credit to him after CL debacle. He “needs to win over a doubter like me by appointing an assistant who can be more tactical and technical than him. And then he’ll have to make a right choice in choosing correctly two of these three players: Haaland, Grealish and Sancho.
 
10 wins in 16 games. First team in the league to reach 10 wins this season. No other team with games in hand can do it, either.
 
dpansheth said:
I am still firmly in “ole out” brigade but credit to him after CL debacle. He “needs to win over a doubter like me by appointing an assistant who can be more tactical and technical than him. And then he’ll have to make a right choice in choosing correctly two of these three players: Haaland, Grealish and Sancho.
Click to expand...
If you think this team is not ready to win or do good in domestic league, you might be expecting too much from them in CL. Especially with the group we were in.

Even if we passed the group stage, I doubt anyone would expect us to go further. This team still needs experience of highest order as a whole to go places. They have to do it first in the domestic league like what they are doing now so far.

For me, CL at this point is not too important for us to measure how much we are progressing as a team.
 
RedSky said:
Well, here's the points table comparison for each season since Sir Alex. I'm marked in red the numbers that represent games with less points than our current total. I.E. Last season it took till match day 22 to have more points than we do now.

We're behind on Joses 2nd place finish season (17-18) but ahead of all the other seasons by at least 2 games.
​
Games Played20-2119-2018-1917-1816-1715-1614-1513-14
16​
33​
24​
26​
35​
27​
29​
31​
25​
17​
​
25​
26​
38​
30​
29​
32​
28​
18​
​
25​
29​
41​
33​
29​
35​
31​
19​
​
28​
32​
42​
36​
30​
36​
34​
20​
​
31​
35​
43​
39​
33​
37​
34​
21​
​
31​
38​
44​
40​
34​
37​
37​
22​
​
34​
41​
47​
41​
37​
40​
37​
Click to expand...
Thank you. That's a very useful comparison.
 
always_hoping said:
Under Ferguson United made their exits at the CL group stage a handful of times and in easier groups on paper than the one United played in this season.
Click to expand...
Yes, I remember very well. The point I wanted to make wrt “debacle” was how we didn’t close the deal after 3 very good games. Hence my comment about assistants. To me Thats naivety
 
The United said:
If you think this team is not ready to win or do good in domestic league, you might be expecting too much from them in CL. Especially with the group we were in.

Even if we passed the group stage, I doubt anyone would expect us to go further. This team still needs experience of highest order as a whole to go places. They have to do it first in the domestic league like what they are doing now so far.

For me, CL at this point is not too important for us to measure how much we are progressing as a team.
Click to expand...
CL is certainly important to even attract bigger talents. Once we won again PSG, ole should have been able to close the deal. Make no mistake i m putting the blame squarely on ole carrick team. Not just ole.
 
glazed said:
I'm a Glazers out DoF in guy, which amounts to Ole out in the medium term.

That said there is no case for Ole Out right now. He is pretty much doing as well as he could in the circumstances and we're playing watchable football. But of course you lose Bruno and it all goes south again.
Click to expand...

You can vote for me when the Caf takes power
 
OleBoiii said:
Even without trophies he's the best manager post Fergie. The best part is that we seem to only be getting better, unlike under the other coaches. That is the most important part at the end of the day.

He's created a team of fighters who are entertaining to watch. He keeps a cool head and gives the media no ammunition what-so-ever. And now we're averaging 2.1 points per game and have the same amount of points as the leaders. Imagine if we had a consistent goalscorer like Cole, RVN, Rooney, Ronaldo or RVP. We'd be flying.
Click to expand...

This what we Ole in trying to tell those Ole out about the progress last time and how under Mourinho we didn’t make progress despite of winning those second tier trophies. It’s only becoming clear to most people now due to what’s happening on the league table.
 
Kag said:
The football that team played was abysmal and we didn’t score goals in line with our rivals: one look at how we actually played and it was obvious that the team was destined for failure. This team is comfortably better.
Click to expand...
Completely agree. Anyone claiming Mourinho was better at this point is kidding themselves and I’d question their judgement.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
This what we Ole in trying to tell those Ole out about the progress last time and how under Mourinho we didn’t make progress despite of winning those second tier trophies. It’s only becoming clear to most people now due to what’s happening on the league table.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately for many fans they can’t see what’s been right in front of their faces for the last two years. It’s been clear to why objective fan that Ole is building a team miles better than anything Mourinho achieved. This team actually plays attractive football for a start, we have recruited much better and there’s a togetherness that frankly was never evident under the toxic one. Easily the best managed post Fergie and I’ve maintained that since last year.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Aged well
Click to expand...
Yea, just like that "We will never get out of the group" gem. We are on a very good run right now and Ole of course deserves credit but if you are planning to go after each "Ole outer" then I suggest to wait a bit. We knew we are capable of having very good winning streaks but at the same time we know we can turn into something that barely look like a football team overnight. If we can avoid that, we will be fine and I have no problem admitting I was wrong. Anything less than TOP 4 is a failure with the squad we have.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.