The “Ole In” Brigade

[Godfather]

It was Ole's decision not to replace Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini and Herrera.
It was Ole's decision to go into the season relying on 18 year old Mason Greenwood.
It was Ole's decision to blow £85 million on Maguire when there were cheaper alternatives available.
It was Ole's decision to keep shoehorning underperforming players like Lingard and Pereira into the side.

Ole has no experience of managing a world class side.
Ole has no tactical nous of breaking down teams that sit deep.
Ole does not know how to coach an attacking mentality into the players.
Ole is responsible for us having the lowest points total at this stage in over 30 years. Worse than Moyes, LVG, Jose.
Ole has had ample time to assess the squad yet continues to make excuses for next season. Look at Brendan Rogers FFS.

In conclusion: Ole was brought in as a caretaker manager to bring back the feel-good factor until the end of last season. He did, to an extent, but he has no credentials to take the club anywhere beyond that. He is massively out of his depth and needs to go. His presence is causing more harm than good. Just look at the sides we've dropped points against this season: Wolves (D), Palace (L), Southampton (D), West Ham (L), Newcastle (L), Bournemouth (L), Sheffield (D), Villa (D), Everton (D), Watford (L). Is this acceptable for a club like Manchester United?

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself yourself become the villain. He should've quit whilst he was ahead after guiding us to a defeat against Cardiff in the last game of last season.

So yeah... Ole in.

Seconded

 

[RussellWilson]

Shouldn't the thread title just be "I'm deluded"?

 

[BlueHaze]

@Lentwood So on point 2 you are basically saying the reality is this squad is bad enough to get beat 2-0 by the mighty Watford FC? Even though the same squad beat Spurs and City away in 3 days? Then you have set your standards at an unbelieveable low. Seems like Ole, The Glazer's and Eddie has been very successful in this regard.

An alarming amount of people have bought into their rubbish about low standards.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

What on earth is going on .

Also is this our future from now in this place? Posters hooked like leeches onto persona and start spinning one sided nonsense like followers in dictatorship countries? We already have one for Poch and he has zero connections with us.

For Moyes i dont remember much, had personal problems in the family so United was like a booster to bad days. LvG had some defenders but not like the type since JM and majority was always on the same page when it comes to his boring football.

Since JM, everything went tits up, we have United fans who are/were fans of JM before he even became a United manager, a guy we fought for PL titles and he won some and we didnt, i mean what the actual feck. During his period here, things turned even more crazy.

Now we have Ole a United legend as a player and after him, maybe, like i said above, we could have Poch and if that happens, there is already one person in a line, ready to take crazy on totally different level. Where is United in all of that, just boggles my mind.

LVG had lots of supporters talking about him putting down the foundations at Barcelona and Bayern and would do the same here even with his crap football. As we see there was no foundations in place that worked well at all.
Although I am sure his supporters would claim Mctominay and Greenwood was influenced by his ideas down in the academy .

Not sure Moyes has any supporters though. Apart from people thinking he should be given more time, but not many talked him up for doing well with Everton and things like that.

 

[JPRouve]

I expect this thread will descend into the Ole In brigade all quoting each others posts and telling each other "top post mate" and "at least some of us can see what he's doing".

It's becoming like a cult.

In reality all the points you made are not true. Ole has displayed no tactical acumen and to say you don't give a monkey's about the results is beyond retarded. This is a results based business and you stating you don't care makes your first point just seem like lip service so you can claim your not letting your heart rule your head.

Top post mate, at least some of us can see what they are doing.

 

[rotherham_red]

As a proud member of the “Ole in” brigade, I’m getting tired of seeing the same lazy criticisms of us/the manager gathering likes on the Caf and Twitter.

I wanted to address them all in one place, hopefully some fellow sensible supporters will be able to add their own arguments

1) “The love for Ole is all based on nostalgia and reverence for an ex-Red”

Not true. I’ve never seen a single argument from a pro-Ole supporter saying that he should remain in the job because he is an ex-player/club legend. This argument has been made up by the anti-Ole brigade, who have then proceeded to get angry at their own argument.

2) “Utd have made their worst start/worst away record/worst this/worse that”

Could. Not. Give. A. Monkeys. Anybody who expected any more from this season, with this squad and these players was always setting themselves up for a fall. Re-adjust your expectations based on reality.

3) “Ole is a failed Cardiff manager”

So what? People need to get over this idea that the success or failure of a club begins and ends with the manager.

4) “Jose Mourinho blah blah blah”

I liked Jose but with the benefit of hindsight, he had completely lost the plot in that 3rd season. Also, the man left over a year ago...let’s stop going on about it.

5) “We’re Man Utd, we should be doing X,Y....”

Means nothing. We’re currently an irrelevant club with mediocre players run by a clown and owned by shareholders looking to make a quick dollar. We’ve no divine right to win anything or sign any player because “we’re Man Utd”

6) “Ole is a poor Coach”

No evidence for this. People are obsessed with the idea of coaching but (most) of these players are 20+....you can’t make them play slicker, faster football just by “coaching”. Same way Pep can’t coach his philosophy to certain players, difference is City have been well-run for ten years so their squad needs minor tweaks every year not major surgery.

Spot on mate

 

[Gopher Brown]

I'm 'Ole in' as far as I am fed up of our club becoming a managerial merry-go-round with no discernable upturn in results. We've had tumescent, largely unsuccessful (League Cup and Europa League barely count) football for the last 6.5 years. I want a bit of continuity, rather than scrapping everything AGAIN and pretending the only problem is the manager.

 

[Nanotron]

It's laughable how bad a manager Ole is. I'd be embarrassed that this was representative of "ole in".

Why does there have to be two brigades here. Can we not just have what's best for United Brigade. Which to everybody with an ounce of sense means, sack the board, get a quality manager in and let's start our rebuild properly.

 

[matherto]

I don't think he's a good manager or the right man for the job when we're finally back on top but I really can't be arsed going through another manager change, another philosophy change, another round of shit transfers and unknown decisions about the dross we've got in or not.

I'd rather just take the fact that Ole froze out the likes of Matic, Jones, etc and got rid of Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, etc and brought in decent young players because that suggests to me that we've realised our failures from the past decade and we're finally doing something about it.

Right now the club is at the bottom of the curve. I hate the Glazers and Woodward is a pile of shite but it seems like something has finally clicked at the club and I'd rather suck it up and see what happens right now than do the same shit over and over again expecting a different result. That's the definition of insanity and United fans are suffering from it through losing SAF, getting Moyes, sacking Moyes, getting LVG, sacking LVG, getting Mourinho and sacking Mourinho. It's time we stopped.

At some point fans have got to accept that yes, we're shit but we can't keep changing things repeateedly because we'll get stuck in a loop so we need to have one plan and stick to it and see where it goes.

We're all spoilt by SAF and the 20+ years of unbridled success he gave us. Now's the time the show we're United fans rather than glory fans and have patience for once. We've had no patience whatsoever since SAF left (not that I would've with Moyes anyway).

 

[Lentwood]

@Lentwood So on point 2 you are basically saying the reality is this squad is bad enough to get beat 2-0 by the mighty Watford FC? Even though the same squad beat Spurs and City away in 3 days? Then you have set your standards at an unbelieveable low. Seems like Ole, The Glazer's and Eddie has been very successful in this regard.

An alarming amount of people have bought into their rubbish about low standards.

What on earth has it got to do with standards? My standards for Utd are sky-high but currently we’re nowhere near. What will talking about “higher standards” achieve? Nothing!

And yes we have no god-given right to beat any team. The PL is the toughest in the world in terms of average ability/quality of all 20 opponents. You can’t turn up to an away game against 11 experienced International footballers and just expect to win “because we’re Man Utd”

 

[Lentwood]

I don't think he's a good manager or the right man for the job when we're finally back on top but I really can't be arsed going through another manager change, another philosophy change, another round of shit transfers and unknown decisions about the dross we've got in or not.

I'd rather just take the fact that Ole froze out the likes of Matic, Jones, etc and got rid of Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, etc and brought in decent young players because that suggests to me that we've realised our failures from the past decade and we're finally doing something about it.

Right now the club is at the bottom of the curve. I hate the Glazers and Woodward is a pile of shite but it seems like something has finally clicked at the club and I'd rather suck it up and see what happens right now than do the same shit over and over again expecting a different result. That's the definition of insanity and United fans are suffering from it through losing SAF, getting Moyes, sacking Moyes, getting LVG, sacking LVG, getting Mourinho and sacking Mourinho. It's time we stopped.

At some point fans have got to accept that yes, we're shit but we can't keep changing things repeateedly because we'll get stuck in a loop so we need to have one plan and stick to it and see where it goes.

We're all spoilt by SAF and the 20+ years of unbridled success he gave us. Now's the time the show we're United fans rather than glory fans and have patience for once. We've had no patience whatsoever since SAF left (not that I would've with Moyes anyway).

Agree

 

[steffyr2]

It would be great if someone could compare poster mid-Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Ole to see if there's any consistency of opinion manager to manager.
I remember I hated watching Utd during the LVG period, don't remember if I swallowed the Cafe kool-aid or if the performances really were that boring.
Mid-Mourinho, I really remember that people thought the players were great, all of them, and it was Mourinho who was being mean and holding them back. Was it Martial who went on paternity leave for weeks at the start of the season and people thought that Mourinho should just deal with it? 2nd just wasn't anything great, again it was Mourinho's fault we weren't doing better.
I can't help but think we WOULD be doing better now if people had sided with Mourinho at the start of last season when he wanted a defender, never did figure out why people sided with Woodward on that. Other that they thought the team was good enough to win the league as is.
And now we're at this season, where we're comfortable at mid-table, and a lot of the fans are fine with it. Because Ole is happy.

 

[lex talionis]

Strange OP.

No sane person on the planet would argue that Ole’s record as a manager qualifies him for this job. And no sane person would look at his record to date at Old Trafford and be thankful he’s our manager and not more accomplished managers we can all name.

But here we are and we’re stuck with Ole until the end of the season. I’m not happy about that but I accept it and hope we sort this out at season’s end.

I can accept two steps forward, one step back, but this season it’s been one step forward and two steps back. Losing 2-0 go fukking Watford might be ok if it were a single banana peel, but in truth we’ve been beaten by cannon fodder clubs hall season. And that’s a manager problem.

What would change my mind is positive transfer activity in January and a great run in the second half. But to do that Ole needs to not only get Woody to spend big in January and modify his tactics to be able to break down weaker clubs. If he can’t do both, then there’s no point in him being our manager except to rekindle find memories of that glorious night at the Camp Nou.

 

[Gopher Brown]

It's laughable how bad a manager Ole is. I'd be embarrassed that this was representative of "ole in".

Why does there have to be two brigades here. Can we not just have what's best for United Brigade. Which to everybody with an ounce of sense means, sack the board, get a quality manager in and let's start our rebuild properly.

There is no 'rebuild.' This is it. You need to be in a position to challenge every single season, or else you are irrelevant.

What we're seeing is our new position in football, which those in charge are accepting of - no longer at the top, scrapping around for 4th/5th/6th, maybe a Carabao Cup now and then.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Biggest one that bugs me is when people conveniently forget how Ole has been hamstrung in the recruitment by Woodward.

Sanction Lukaku leaving sign no replacement
Sanction Sanchez leaving sign no replacement
Sanction Herrera being released sign no replacement
Sanction Fellaini being sold sign no replacement

4 first team players arguably with no replacements

So we’re giving OgS credit for sales then criticising Woodward for the lack of buys?

Surely you don’t ‘sanction’ sales without insisting on replacements.

If people are giving OgS the praise for getting rid of undererformers why is Woodward criticised for incomings?

The truth is no one posting on this forum sits in on transfer discussions so to conveniently use transfers out as something to praise OgS for then blame Woodward for none coming in is simply further proof of the ‘Ole in’ crowd attempting to find anything to praise him for.

I’m more than happy to praise OgS for offloading players but in that case he must hold some responsibility for no one coming in to replace them.

 

[Lentwood]

I expect this thread will descend into the Ole In brigade all quoting each others posts and telling each other "top post mate" and "at least some of us can see what he's doing".

It's becoming like a cult.

In reality all the points you made are not true. Ole has displayed no tactical acumen and to say you don't give a monkey's about the results is beyond retarded. This is a results based business and you stating you don't care makes your first point just seem like lip service so you can claim your not letting your heart rule your head.

It’s not about not caring about results. It’s about understanding that in our current state results are not the most important thing

If we had kept Lukaku would we have more points? Absolutely. Was it still the right decision to get rid? Absolutely.

Who cares if we finish 10th or 8th or 6th? It makes no difference to me - I want to win the PL and the CL league and you don’t achieve that standard by operating in the chaotic manner we have been lost SAF

Whether it’s Ole’s influence or whether the penny has finally dropped at Board level, this is the first time I’ve seen ANY semblance of a plan or strategy post SAF

 

[Gehrman]

I don't think he's a good manager or the right man for the job when we're finally back on top but I really can't be arsed going through another manager change, another philosophy change, another round of shit transfers and unknown decisions about the dross we've got in or not.

I'd rather just take the fact that Ole froze out the likes of Matic, Jones, etc and got rid of Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, etc and brought in decent young players because that suggests to me that we've realised our failures from the past decade and we're finally doing something about it.

Right now the club is at the bottom of the curve. I hate the Glazers and Woodward is a pile of shite but it seems like something has finally clicked at the club and I'd rather suck it up and see what happens right now than do the same shit over and over again expecting a different result. That's the definition of insanity and United fans are suffering from it through losing SAF, getting Moyes, sacking Moyes, getting LVG, sacking LVG, getting Mourinho and sacking Mourinho. It's time we stopped.

At some point fans have got to accept that yes, we're shit but we can't keep changing things repeateedly because we'll get stuck in a loop so we need to have one plan and stick to it and see where it goes.

We're all spoilt by SAF and the 20+ years of unbridled success he gave us. Now's the time the show we're United fans rather than glory fans and have patience for once. We've had no patience whatsoever since SAF left (not that I would've with Moyes anyway).

The problem is we keep hiring the wrong managers.

 

[anant]

You can't keep sacking managers without giving them a proper chance.
This side is not his and the signings he's made are pretty good - AWB and James have arguably been among our top 4 players this season. Atleast give him a chance till a majority of his players are his/he has had atleast 2 summer windows.
He's not shit tactically - we've beaten the big boys convincingly and we play with a positive attitude in bigger games. Add to that, we're giving chances to youth (something not a lot of managers would be willing to do during this time) which makes me believe that he should be the one to reap rewards of his philosophy.

 

[vintiz]

No evidence that he's a poor coach? Really?

 

[2 man midfield]

I don’t see how you can claim he isn’t poor at coaching us. I like how you’re not claiming that he’s a good coach, just that he isn’t a bad one. That says it all. We should be aiming for a good coach!

He’s been here a whole year and there’s zero evidence that he’s even coaching us at all. I honestly think there’d be no difference if he’d been in Norway the whole time.

 

[billybee99]

As a proud member of the “Ole in” brigade, I’m getting tired of seeing the same lazy criticisms of us/the manager gathering likes on the Caf and Twitter.

I wanted to address them all in one place, hopefully some fellow sensible supporters will be able to add their own arguments

1) “The love for Ole is all based on nostalgia and reverence for an ex-Red”

Not true. I’ve never seen a single argument from a pro-Ole supporter saying that he should remain in the job because he is an ex-player/club legend. This argument has been made up by the anti-Ole brigade, who have then proceeded to get angry at their own argument.

2) “Utd have made their worst start/worst away record/worst this/worse that”

Could. Not. Give. A. Monkeys. Anybody who expected any more from this season, with this squad and these players was always setting themselves up for a fall. Re-adjust your expectations based on reality.

3) “Ole is a failed Cardiff manager”

So what? People need to get over this idea that the success or failure of a club begins and ends with the manager.

4) “Jose Mourinho blah blah blah”

I liked Jose but with the benefit of hindsight, he had completely lost the plot in that 3rd season. Also, the man left over a year ago...let’s stop going on about it.

5) “We’re Man Utd, we should be doing X,Y....”

Means nothing. We’re currently an irrelevant club with mediocre players run by a clown and owned by shareholders looking to make a quick dollar. We’ve no divine right to win anything or sign any player because “we’re Man Utd”

6) “Ole is a poor Coach”

No evidence for this. People are obsessed with the idea of coaching but (most) of these players are 20+....you can’t make them play slicker, faster football just by “coaching”. Same way Pep can’t coach his philosophy to certain players, difference is City have been well-run for ten years so their squad needs minor tweaks every year not major surgery.

You're first point is absolutely bizarre. Just crazy. What other reason would you have to love him other than nostalgia and his status as a legend with the club? Do you love him because we are 8th in the table? Do you love him because we have been playing at near relegation form for about 25 games now? Do you love him because he got Cardiff relegated? Are you a Molde fan? Do you love watching Jesse Lingard play in the #10 slot? The love and support of Ole is based ENTIRELY on his status as club legend. There is literally no other reason to be a fan. We play horrible football. We are in a horrible position in the table. And we have gone backwards in terms of both points and position in the table in relation to every post SAF manager.

 

[Lentwood]

You're first point is absolutely bizarre. Just crazy. What other reason would you have to love him other than nostalgia and his status as a legend with the club? Do you love him because we are 8th in the table? Do you love him because we have been playing at near relegation form for about 25 games now? Do you love him because he got Cardiff relegated? Are you a Molde fan? Do you love watching Jesse Lingard play in the #10 slot? The love and support of Ole is based ENTIRELY on his status as club legend. There is literally no other reason to be a fan. We play horrible football. We are in a horrible position in the table. And we have gone backwards in terms of both points and position in the table in relation to every post SAF manager.

The main reason I like Ole is that he has been arguably our first manager in a long time who makes decisions for the club first and himself second

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

The main reason I like Ole is that he has been arguably our first manager in a long time who makes decisions for the club first and himself second

Examples.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I don't think he's a good manager or the right man for the job when we're finally back on top but I really can't be arsed going through another manager change, another philosophy change, another round of shit transfers and unknown decisions about the dross we've got in or not.

I'd rather just take the fact that Ole froze out the likes of Matic, Jones, etc and got rid of Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, etc and brought in decent young players because that suggests to me that we've realised our failures from the past decade and we're finally doing something about it.

Right now the club is at the bottom of the curve. I hate the Glazers and Woodward is a pile of shite but it seems like something has finally clicked at the club and I'd rather suck it up and see what happens right now than do the same shit over and over again expecting a different result. That's the definition of insanity and United fans are suffering from it through losing SAF, getting Moyes, sacking Moyes, getting LVG, sacking LVG, getting Mourinho and sacking Mourinho. It's time we stopped.

At some point fans have got to accept that yes, we're shit but we can't keep changing things repeateedly because we'll get stuck in a loop so we need to have one plan and stick to it and see where it goes.

We're all spoilt by SAF and the 20+ years of unbridled success he gave us. Now's the time the show we're United fans rather than glory fans and have patience for once. We've had no patience whatsoever since SAF left (not that I would've with Moyes anyway).

You don't think he's a good manager but you claim that it will be insane to sack him because the continuity we strive for will be achieved by him despite you suggesting that he's not good enough for the job.

Okay. Maybe i'm not getting your point but it looks a bit surreal. Just like the notion that he froze out Jones by agreeing on him getting a new 4-year deal.

And new contracts to Pereira, Lingard, Jones, Mata etc. indicate that we have learnt nothimg from our previous mistakes.

 

[OrcaFat]

No evidence of Ole being a poor coach? I would say there is absolutely no evidence Ole is even a League 1 level coach.

It is impossible, from what evidence there is, to conclude whether he is a good coach or a poor coach.

There is, I think, evidence that he has the qualities to be a good manager of the whole club. The modern model more often separates parts of the traditional football manager job from the pure coaching element. SAFs teams changed a lot over the years depending on his players and coaching staff because coaching was just a small part of what he did. Some will say the old SAF-style model is outdated but I prefer it. I prefer the continuity it gives. Ole can be excellent in that system. But he needs good coaches with him (I’m not criticising Carrick et al.) and, I’m afraid, he needs to start winning before too long.

 

[steffyr2]

It’s not about not caring about results. It’s about understanding that in our current state results are not the most important thing

If we had kept Lukaku would we have more points? Absolutely. Was it still the right decision to get rid? Absolutely.

Who cares if we finish 10th or 8th or 6th? It makes no difference to me - I want to win the PL and the CL league and you don’t achieve that standard by operating in the chaotic manner we have been lost SAF

Whether it’s Ole’s influence or whether the penny has finally dropped at Board level, this is the first time I’ve seen ANY semblance of a plan or strategy post SAF

Really strange. Isn't the point to win? Why is getting rid of Lukaku and then winning less a good idea? How do you come up with this?

 

[OrcaFat]

Top post mate, at least some us can see what they are doing.

Top post!

 

[manc4red]

I really wish people would get off Ole’s back. He needs time to grow and shape the squad. The fact that we beat both spurs and city shows that there is the ability there. Yes we lost to weak teams but Ole is very much still trying to get ahold of his players

I believe our fans compare Ole to Klopp and Pep. Both of which had a rocky first year. Yes klopp took them to a couple finals. But he also suffered some ridiculous losses as well.

if we keep playing musical chairs with the manager position, we will not grow imo. We will keep spending on players that dont fit whoever is in charge’s vision

Stability is key. We should give Ole time

 

[VP89]

Ole himself plays down the use of tactics and its obvious there isn't a lot of coaching in the team either.

 

[OrcaFat]

Top post!

Top post!

 

[Lentwood]

Really strange. Isn't the point to win? Why is getting rid of Lukaku and then winning less a good idea? How do you come up with this?

In case you hadn’t noticed/realised, there will be more matches next year and the year after that and the year after that and the year after that and so on and so forth

I don’t care about short term results. Has no bearing on my opinion on anything or anybody

 

[Raoul]

In case you hadn’t noticed/realised, there will be more matches next year and the year after that and the year after that and the year after that and so on and so forth

I don’t care about short term results. Has no bearing on my opinion on anything or anybody

In today's football, short term results buy managers the ability to remain in their jobs to create long term results. He won't be around much longer if the mid table form continues.

 

[Nanotron]

The main reason I like Ole is that he has been arguably our first manager in a long time who makes decisions for the club first and himself second

So a yes man?

 

[Lentwood]

Examples.

The number of players he has allowed to leave permanently or on loan

The choosing of young players over mediocre senior players

The focus on signing players at the right age rather than quick fixes

 

[Lentwood]

In today's football, short term results buy managers the ability to remain in their jobs to create long term results. He won't be around much longer if the mid table form continues.

Granted...but just because this happens doesn’t make it right or an effective strategy

 

[steffyr2]

In case you hadn’t noticed/realised, there will be more matches next year and the year after that and the year after that and the year after that and so on and so forth

I don’t care about short term results. Has no bearing on my opinion on anything or anybody

Oh. Do you actually watch the matches?

 

[Lentwood]

So a yes man?

How do you get to that from what I posted? What has making decisions in the interests of the club got to do with being a “yes man”?

 

[Nanotron]

There is no 'rebuild.' This is it. You need to be in a position to challenge every single season, or else you are irrelevant.

What we're seeing is our new position in football, which those in charge are accepting of - no longer at the top, scrapping around for 4th/5th/6th, maybe a Carabao Cup now and then.

Not just those in charge. A large majority of this fan base seemingly is accepting also.

 

[Lentwood]

Oh. Do you actually watch the matches?

Yes, I’ve seen 95% of our games in full this year. Last year I couldn’t stand to watch because I saw no hope, no direction and no backbone

I genuinely see something positive to build on

 

[Nanotron]

How do you get to that from what I posted? What has making decisions in the interests of the club got to do with being a “yes man”?

Because if he was making decisions in the best interests of the club he wouldn't be doing what he is doing and coming out with absolute drivel week on week. Contradicting himself frequently. Ole is painting a pic that isn't reality, one which only benefits the current owners and board. As clear as day he is a puppet