Griezmann? In January?
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- Thread starter OohAahMartial
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I think the CAf is just obsessed with signings and they think that they are the cure for all our ills.
Getting our current players to perform better is the key. We have good players that we really struggle to get the best out of.
Matic was chelseas key player apparently haha
Sign a winger and a fullback and we can challenge for the title.
For example Perisic and Aurier, nice thing is that both guys can play both right and left wing
-----------------Lukaku-------------------------
Martial--------Mkhitaryan---------------Perisic
------------Pogba----------Matic---------------
Aurier------Rojo--------Bailly-----------Valencia
-------------------DDG----------------------------
That is a solid side that can really win the title
That is a brilliant team
If our other players still play poorly then we won't .
That is why it's vital we fix that.
The reason we didn't challenge last season is that we simply don't score enough.
For some reason I think we will sign someone on deadline day. Aurier is my bet.
very good summery. Agree that the sqaud is very well stocked, provides several tactical options and should be able to domestically compete.
As your analysis above shows, we have plenty of sqaud depth so we should only bring in new players that improve the first XI.
Can he? I've never seen him line up on the left.
He has played there but it is not his primary position. Ideally I would like us to sign a real leftback but doesn't seem there is one left on the market.
I'd rather a full back than a winger.
I'm fine with this. I'd like an attacking player but there's also a very good chance that some of our players will step up. We got Martial, Rashford, Mata and Mkhitaryan who can very well play behind the striker and create, we got one of the best midfielders in the world and a young striker who can score plenty. I don't think panic buying makes any sense, we wanted Perisic but with the way the market is at the minute we decided not to spend over the top to get him and I agree with that too. Let's see how the team responds to recent changes, the start has been encouraging (so was the end to last season) so hopefully we can get better without further reinforcements.
Like a lot of others have said, we need fullbacks on both sides. If an injury happens to Valencia we are struggling in that area badly. Yes, there are players who can cover but they won't provide anything near what he does and it'll just be awkward and stilted. Until Shaw proves himself, we have no real decent option on the left either so it amazes me we haven't strengthened there.
People will say Perisic was targeted to play a wing back role, in my opinion that is nonsense because he's never even played there in his entire career, not going to start happening now.
We need to sign two offensively minded fullbacks and then we'll be ok, I think our attack is strong. In an ideal world, Griezmann would have been here but we just got unlucky with that one.
People will say Perisic was targeted to play a wing back role, in my opinion that is nonsense because he's never even played there in his entire career, not going to start happening now.
We need to sign two offensively minded fullbacks and then we'll be ok, I think our attack is strong. In an ideal world, Griezmann would have been here but we just got unlucky with that one.
That article is nonsense. United might not be PSG but they don't need to sell to raise funds for a new signing.
Article written by Odgen posted on ESPN.
Anyone who believes it is a bit like the mouse that keeps picking the cheese that gets him electrocuted.
Anyone who believes it is a bit like the mouse that keeps picking the cheese that gets him electrocuted.
This is the most important thing - no matter how wealthy we are we shouldn't be held to ransom and i like the fact that we haven't just coughed up.
This and this, combined.
1. We have already spent 150M+
2. Hyper-inflated market, competition, available options
3. (Most importantly) Our attackers' potential can be unleashed
- Our attackers, namely Martial, Rashford, and Mkhi have yet to show full potential, partly because lack of team chemistry, lack of consistent starting XI, and Jose used defensive tactics that negatively affect their performance (ie having to track back, and at times they need to beat one/two defenders on their own).
- Plus, things could change this season, in terms of "dynamics", with Matic freeing up Herrera-Pogba to support the attackers and Lukaku stretching the defense, hence opening up more space and allow more link up play for our attackers/CM/fullbacks
- One shouldn't judge on the basis like "Lukaku only replaces Zlatan, Matic only replaces Carrick". It's all depends on many factors, like individual performance, team chemistry, tactic/system. Now that we have the new "dynamics", I believe/hope Jose can play much more offensive/less defensive.
My point is, both the new "dynamics" and Jose's tactic (which could be positively affected by this new dynamics) could unleash the potential of our attackers, of course there is no guarantee. This, and given that we have already spent 150M+ and the market conditions, signing a "X factor" like Griezmann/Bale would be the best solution (we did try, however, Griezmann was an "accident" and Bale wasn't available even though Jose was interested in him, etc.......). Obviously another solution would be signing a "non-X factor" like Perisic, at a reasonable price, with the downside of lower probability that the new guy will outperform our current attackers and reducing their playing time. If we could get new one, why not. Otherwise, we could bet on what we have and save up the money for "X factor" in near future or other positions.
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With regard to our "wing", definitely not perfect, but not doom and gloom. It's non-sysmetrical.
For both 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1, our width comes from LW (Rash/Martial) and RB (Valencia), with Mkhi/Mata mostly cutting inside and Blind/Darmian providing less width/more defensive than Valencia (until Shaw is back)
[CF, LW, RW, LB, RB]
-------------------Lukaku---------------------
Rash/Martial----------Mkhi/Mata-------------
---------------------------------------Valencia
Blind/Darmian--------------------------------
This is just based on paper. In reality, the system can still be further adjusted. For example, the lack of width from RW (Mkhi/Mata), can be balanced by
1. Valencia more up front
2. Right CM more up front
3. Lukaku more to the right
This reminds me of Jose's Inter "asymmetrical", 4-2-3-1, "quite similarly (not 100%), different position"
Eto = Rash/Martial
Pandev = Mkhi/Mata
Maicon = Valencia
Zanetti = Blind/Darmian
If no more new signings, on paper, my view is that we can challenge for PL, but not CL......
So now, new signings aside, let's work on our "dynamics", tactics, and mentality.
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Well.....there is the fact that after the last 2 times in this window that it was reported that Jose was unhappy with transfers so far that we signed Lukaku and Matic in a few days. So this obviously means we are signing Ronaldo tomorrow. 
I reckon its more a case of putting it out there that we aren't going to be held for ransom for the likes of Perisic. I wonder does Jose know that we are due a pretty major incoming in January (not Zlatan) so he has relaxed somewhat on his requirement for a 4th signing. In light of Perisic costing silly money and the likes of Rose being difficult cases (not to mention injured) and no one has any idea if Aurier will be allowed in to the UK I can see us not making any more signings until January anyway instead of buying someone just because.
I don't think the squad is quite what Jose wants just yet (obviously considering he wants someone that plays from the wings) so its a little risky. Just means that Martial and Shaw will need to step it up a notch. Which hopefully they can do.
I reckon its more a case of putting it out there that we aren't going to be held for ransom for the likes of Perisic. I wonder does Jose know that we are due a pretty major incoming in January (not Zlatan) so he has relaxed somewhat on his requirement for a 4th signing. In light of Perisic costing silly money and the likes of Rose being difficult cases (not to mention injured) and no one has any idea if Aurier will be allowed in to the UK I can see us not making any more signings until January anyway instead of buying someone just because.
I don't think the squad is quite what Jose wants just yet (obviously considering he wants someone that plays from the wings) so its a little risky. Just means that Martial and Shaw will need to step it up a notch. Which hopefully they can do.
I'm perfectly happy with the business we have done this summer. Some cover for Tony V would have been nice but I like the squad we have. Martial needs to make LW his and Mata Mkh can work along the right side.
The flicks and tricks we were putting together against the hammers demonstrated the class we have when the players are on.
The flicks and tricks we were putting together against the hammers demonstrated the class we have when the players are on.
The problem isn't that we are not going to get another player in. I think the fear is that Jose picks a certain players and fully trusts them without allowing competition from others. For example, Darmian and Blind could put in average performances but Mitchell is not going to get a look in, almost guaranteed. Or Lingard could completely shit the bed against Man City in one of the worst first half performance I've seen from a United player and yet he's trusted to 'do a job' against bigger teams while Martial will most likely rot on the bench because he doesn't track back. Or how last year, Zlatan was just never subbed off. Ever.
I think Jose needs to create a true competition for places without picking favorites. If he's going to pick favorites, he's the manager and has all the right to. But then as fans we have all the right to be dissatisfied if the results don't go in our favor.
I think Jose needs to create a true competition for places without picking favorites. If he's going to pick favorites, he's the manager and has all the right to. But then as fans we have all the right to be dissatisfied if the results don't go in our favor.
This is the case for most things in the transfer forum.
Good. Let's actually try building the team a little for once instead of just buying one every season. We made the two crucial signings, a striker and a proper DM. Now let's look at getting goals from Rashford, consistency and desire from Martial, top gear from Miki. Lets get those kids involved nice and early, make them a part of a good start to the season before all the tough games start. Pereira and Tuanzebe are ready for a proper test. And you never know who else could make an earlier-than-expected breakthrough, like Rashford did.
Let's turn those promising signs of understandings developing across the pitch - between Matic and Pogba, Pogba and Lukaku, Bailly and Valencia, Lukaku and Rashford, Miki and Rashford - into a proper, gelled team. Put them on that pitch together and let them play. Do it again, and again, and again. Trust them to get better and better, because that's what teams do when given the time.
We could buy Ronaldo and Messi right now and I guarantee we wouldn't win the Champions League this season. Only great teams (and Chelsea) win the Champions League, and you don't make a great team just by buying great players: you buy a few, sure, but then you have to actually take the time to put them together.
Let's turn those promising signs of understandings developing across the pitch - between Matic and Pogba, Pogba and Lukaku, Bailly and Valencia, Lukaku and Rashford, Miki and Rashford - into a proper, gelled team. Put them on that pitch together and let them play. Do it again, and again, and again. Trust them to get better and better, because that's what teams do when given the time.
We could buy Ronaldo and Messi right now and I guarantee we wouldn't win the Champions League this season. Only great teams (and Chelsea
) win the Champions League, and you don't make a great team just by buying great players: you buy a few, sure, but then you have to actually take the time to put them together.Have spent 150m but we also made about 40m selling Memphis and Scheniderlin in January and Januzaj this summer. So we are at 110m net spent
Last year we spent 170m and that was without any significant sales
Also the other difference from last year and this year is last year we weren't getting 50m for CL like we are this year.
So ya this seems rubbish. If Jose deems someone worth buying in the next two weeks and that player's club is willing to sell the money is there. That narrative completely ignores that if reports are to be believed we are willing to pay 40m for Perisic. So where has that money gone?
Good. Let's actually try building the team a little for once instead of just buying one every season. We made the two crucial signings, a striker and a proper DM. Now let's look at getting goals from Rashford, consistency and desire from Martial, top gear from Miki. Lets get those kids involved nice and early, make them a part of a good start to the season before all the tough games start. Pereira and Tuanzebe are ready for a proper test. And you never know who else could make an earlier-than-expected breakthrough, like Rashford did.
Let's turn those promising signs of understandings developing across the pitch - between Matic and Pogba, Pogba and Lukaku, Bailly and Valencia, Lukaku and Rashford, Miki and Rashford - into a proper, gelled team. Put them on that pitch together and let them play. Do it again, and again, and again. Trust them to get better and better, because that's what teams do when given the time.
We could buy Ronaldo and Messi right now and I guarantee we wouldn't win the Champions League this season. Only great teams (and Chelsea
Lukaku and Rashford is interesting, that they could make the opponent so fearful......especially their pace (all else being equal, like the pace of Rooney/Ronaldo), and Lukaku/Rooney's power/aggression to run behind defenders. These factors alone could open up a lot of space for our attackers/CM/Fullbacks, changing the dynamics of our system, provided Jose do not deploy defensive tactic. Then, coupled with Pogba's creativity and Matic/Herrera's aggression, we could push much more higher up the pitch. All in all, I could see our team perform differently from last season, ideally......
Martial reminds me more of like Giggs in terms of his dribbling (and quite pacey)
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Still think we should sign a right winger.
Left back is needed if Shaw isn't rated by Jose.
Left back is needed if Shaw isn't rated by Jose.
Martial is good, but we need a winger in the Perisic mould too, who can swing in crosses regularly. Shaw won't be fit for long enough to claim anything.
That's interesting, I would've said Rashford was the more Giggs-esque of the two. If we're talking about the younger, Arsenal-savaging Giggs. Real pace and real commitment to using it, dribbling more with dropped shoulders and shifted balance and speed. Snake hips.
Martial isn't as fast, and doesn't rely on his pace as much. More of a pure, ball-manipulating dribbler. He can do it from a standing start, which was never really Giggs' thing and isn't Rashford's either. Martial reminds me of Ribery.
It seems that we had 40m but not 50m or whatever stupid fee is required nowadays for someone like Dembele. I think Woodwards shareholder guidance about decreased churn (ie. less spending and in and outs) is turning out to be quite accurate.
Usually, I would agree, however circumstances might conspire this time to make it viable.
We know Griezmann is a target and is available for £86m in January. We also know he was willing/wanted to join Utd before AMs transfer ban, which expires in Jan '18
We also know that Costa is likely to end up back at AM and will costs around £50m - Chelsea are expert negotiators so will get this for Costa no problem
The reason we don't usually buy in January is a combination of good players not being available and it being perceived as panic. Neither are applicable in this case.
Agree with the above.
There is not point adding more "decent to quite good" players to our attack.
Save the money for the right player or two.
I am certain that we will sign Griezmann next summer, unless Barca hijack the deal.
I understand what you mean but you also have to consider the impact Lukaku will have, already demonstrated on Sunday, on the rest of the side and their ability to chip in with goals. Mhiki already has more assists than he managed in the PL last season, Pogba and Martial are already off the mark and Rashford was a spin of the ball away from scoring a fantastic goal.
I think, good player though he is, PL defenders quite like facing players like Zlatan. Yes he is big and physical, but so are most PL strikers. What he isn't is particularly mobile. Plays most of the game with his back to goal.
Lukaku, on the other hand, is a CBs nightmare. Will constantly look to run in behind off the shoulder (see the opener Saturday) which means defenders are always on the back foot, taking steps toward their own goal rather than squeezing us out and up the pitch
I think if you just say 'Zlatan got 17, Lukaku will get 25, therefore Utd will score 8 more' it really misses the bigger picture.
Surely it's no coincidence our biggest win in 4 years came in his first appearance? The first time we have had a pacy, mobile CF since peak-Rooney/Ronaldo in around 2008
Our manager has been building winning teams since he was Porto manager. He gave Woodward 4 names he wanted to complete his squad for the coming season. We're still yet to see the 4th arrive, it's all fine and well giving your opinion on the squad and what you'd do going forward, but if we fail to get the 4th it won't look good on Woodward. Mourinho knows how to build a winning team and he needs to be given the tools he requires considering our neighbours are backed by a state.Good. Let's actually try building the team a little for once instead of just buying one every season. We made the two crucial signings, a striker and a proper DM. Now let's look at getting goals from Rashford, consistency and desire from Martial, top gear from Miki. Lets get those kids involved nice and early, make them a part of a good start to the season before all the tough games start. Pereira and Tuanzebe are ready for a proper test. And you never know who else could make an earlier-than-expected breakthrough, like Rashford did.
Let's turn those promising signs of understandings developing across the pitch - between Matic and Pogba, Pogba and Lukaku, Bailly and Valencia, Lukaku and Rashford, Miki and Rashford - into a proper, gelled team. Put them on that pitch together and let them play. Do it again, and again, and again. Trust them to get better and better, because that's what teams do when given the time.
We could buy Ronaldo and Messi right now and I guarantee we wouldn't win the Champions League this season. Only great teams (and Chelsea
I would have liked to see us try CBJ again as his crosses were great but hope now we try Mitchell sometimes. If Tierney could be got for cheap that would have been a good buy but not sure how much they'd ask for him in this market.
You're right.
This squad is definitely good enough to put together a title challenge. If it does or not, it will be down to the coaching/management and/or luck elements. In other words we don't need more players though maybe 1 more would be desirable.
I look around and on paper, I see us as stronger than Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea in terms of either starting XI quality or depth. Spurs have a very strong and gelled starting XI, but no great depth. City are probably the only team that looks stronger on paper.
So yeah I'm not fussed if we don't sign anyone now. Mourinho just has to get the team playing good football and build some confidence in them. He has signed 7 new outfield players in two summers, all heading straight into the starting XI bar maybe Lindelof. This is his team now and hopefully it'll challenge for more honours, the big ones this time.
I look around and on paper, I see us as stronger than Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea in terms of either starting XI quality or depth. Spurs have a very strong and gelled starting XI, but no great depth. City are probably the only team that looks stronger on paper.
So yeah I'm not fussed if we don't sign anyone now. Mourinho just has to get the team playing good football and build some confidence in them. He has signed 7 new outfield players in two summers, all heading straight into the starting XI bar maybe Lindelof. This is his team now and hopefully it'll challenge for more honours, the big ones this time.
I think the biggest weakness at the moment, is the fullback. Tony is fine, but he shouldn't be overused otherwise his form would suffer, especially when he will be needed for the big games the most. As I have mentioned in other threads as well, United need a specialist FB on both side, preferably a back-to-back partner of sorts. Bayern before Lahm retired, it was him and Rafinha at RB, and Alaba and Bernat for LB. I know that Bayern side wasn't built in a season or two, but United should have those kind of setup again to be really challenging at the top.
Having said that, before United able to challenge the very best teams in Europe again, the next step after winning the domestic Cups and EC, is to really challenge and win the league again. I think the current setup/squad is enough for that (for now), but an experienced LB to partner Shaw would make United a really good team in the league at least, as Darmian is good enough as backup to Tony V. At worst case, Jones, Lindelof and Tuanzebe can be used there.
Having said that, before United able to challenge the very best teams in Europe again, the next step after winning the domestic Cups and EC, is to really challenge and win the league again. I think the current setup/squad is enough for that (for now), but an experienced LB to partner Shaw would make United a really good team in the league at least, as Darmian is good enough as backup to Tony V. At worst case, Jones, Lindelof and Tuanzebe can be used there.
Not surprised, you can't get the calibre of attacking additions required this late in the window, and I guess he's going to give Shaw until January to stake a claim for the LB spot.
Agreed, if we're to do well, the existing set need to do much more than they did last season. If we can't get the most out of what we have, we'll always struggle to win things.
I'd love Rose to be our 4th signing and to have him here before Semptember. Would be set for title challenge.
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