That Alvarez penalty

Red in STL said:
There's a lot of nonsense in this thread IMO over this

The rule is quite simple and applies to all deadball situations, you can only touch the ball once and you can only touch it again after someone else has touched it, whether it's deliberate or accidental is irrelevant, there's no grey areas just simple act
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I think everyone realises that. The question is whether or not it is an appropriate rule now that VAR can be used to pick up even the faintest of touches. What advantage does a player gain from touching the ball twice in the same kicking motion?
 
Red the Bear said:
I don't have the exact statistics but the success rate was certainly lower.

I doubt it'll ever make a return but from a purely footballing stand point it makes much more sense to use them instead of normal penalties.

A player trying to dribble and outwit a keeper 1 on 1 is a regular occurrence in a game football, trying to score from a dead ball with the keeper bolted on his line is not.

Penalty as it's name shows is intended as punishment which is why it affords the shooter an undue advantage, The same logic shouldn't apply in shoot outs.

The current format incentivizes some teams to specifically work on a skillset which is useless outside of ko competitions and useless in a real game of football in hopes of getting to the point in which they could use those skills, the MLS format however would not require such preparations as the skills required are the ones every keeper and every offensive player works on day after day.


All in all I'm sure the said format will have its own shortcomings and loopholes waiting to be abused but I certainly like to see it tried one more time.
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Thanks man
 
It could have been the right call but I don't believe VAR would have made the same call of the teams were reversed.
 
It was the right call. Having said that, if the shooter was Mbappe, Bellingham, Vinicius or Valverde, I'm certain the goal would have been valid.
 
Tyrion said:
It could have been the right call but I don't believe VAR would have made the same call of the teams were reversed.
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I do not know what is this based on to be honest.

The referee/VAR made the decision favouring Atletico in the following plays:

No penalty for this foul of Galan on Rodrygo in the area


No penalty for Guiliano Simeones' handball
Mano%20Atleti%20Real%20Madrid.jpg


No penalty for this foul of Correa to Brahim in the area


And last but not least, no red card for Lenglet when fouling Mbappe in the area, when he is the last man and the French is about to face the goalkeeper.
 
GatoLoco said:
I do not know what is this based on to be honest.

The referee/VAR made the decision favouring Atletico in the following plays:

No penalty for this foul of Galan on Rodrygo in the area


No penalty for Guiliano Simeones' handball
Mano%20Atleti%20Real%20Madrid.jpg


No penalty for this foul of Correa to Brahim in the area


And last but not least, no red card for Lenglet when fouling Mbappe in the area, when he is the last man and the French is about to face the goalkeeper.
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It's based on decades of Real lobbying refs and officials to get favourable treatment. That tantrum regarding the Balon Dor was just the most obvious example. Real has a lot of influence in the Spanish media and uses that to get favourable treatment. Everyone knows it.

I won't argue with your examples because most Madrid fans seem to get their news from pro Marid media so I doubt you'd change your mind.
 
Tyrion said:
That tantrum regarding the Balon Dor was just the most obvious example. Real has a lot of influence in the Spanish media and uses that to get favourable treatment. Everyone knows it.

I won't argue with your examples because most Madrid fans seem to get their news from pro Marid media so I doubt you'd change your mind.
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This is one of the weakest post I have seen in RedCafe in my entire life, and I have seen a few. Can you discuss a topic without using ad hominems as the rules of this forum recommend, or is it too much?

If you are so sure the officials/VAR have a clear bias over one of the teams, why didn't it show in any of the four plays I showed? Or is it your claim that all the four calls were the right ones?
 
Fobal said:
Let's forget Alvarez.



This Palermo goal (who else for bizarre stuff, for the good and bad).

It's pretty clear that he touched two times. Its pretty clear that he had no intention to do such thing.

As a side note, the goal was allowed and it was sent to FIFA later, after refs from AFA protested (the rival team didn't say a thing when happened, in those days it was more usual to think "this fvcker luck") and FIFA allowed it because they saw no intention of taking an advantage.

In my view? it should have been disallowed, yet be retaken. He had no intention to take advantage, yet the double touch existed. It doesn't matter if it was gross, there was no intention.

It will be more in line with what happens when the keeper (in most cases) intentionally crosses the line to gain an advantage and saves it. Some people will say, within reason, that in this cases is retaken because there was NO goal, so we can't create a goal out of nothing, it would be too much. Yet at the same time, to retake the penalty, with all the nerves involved, because the keeper deliberated seek an unfair adavantge isn't fair either.

So in both cases, when the keeper saves it crossing the line or when the goal happens with an unintentional double touch, it should be retake.

In fact this is one of the few instances, rules, that is way easier to detect intention and sthg like that can be apply.

There is even more space to complains in unintentional hands that many times are not called (like happened in this last match between Real and Aleti with Giuliano's one), than in this penalty situations. So there is no harm to review the rule and not just fall in the "rules are rules", or black and white decisions that go against the spirit of the rule itself. It's as simple as that.

Back to Alvarez, of course in this case, given the instance, the rivalry, the exposure would explode and have tons of reactions, from conspiracies to 4545 cameras, opions and such, but won't be bad to actually do sthg better with the rule after this situation.
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Wow Palermo really had a thing with penalties in his career eh considering he missed 3 in one game.

Also scored a header from near the half way line.

I'm sure you knew already but I can never stop posting about those facts when I hear of his name.
 
GatoLoco said:
I do not know what is this based on to be honest.

The referee/VAR made the decision favouring Atletico in the following plays:

No penalty for this foul of Galan on Rodrygo in the area


No penalty for Guiliano Simeones' handball
Mano%20Atleti%20Real%20Madrid.jpg


No penalty for this foul of Correa to Brahim in the area


And last but not least, no red card for Lenglet when fouling Mbappe in the area, when he is the last man and the French is about to face the goalkeeper.
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Agree on Lenglet on Mbappe, although there is a covering defender which clouds the decision.

None of the others were close to penalties for me.
 
Gio said:
Agree on Lenglet on Mbappe, although there is a covering defender which clouds the decision.

None of the others were close to penalties for me.
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Not close?

Galan grabs Rodrygo by the arm, Giuliano's arm is well separated from his body and Correa steps on Brahim's foot.

I cannot imagine Sergio Ramos being the defender and fans being as generous as you.
 
GatoLoco said:
Not close?

Galan grabs Rodrygo by the arm, Giuliano's arm is well separated from his body and Correa steps on Brahim's foot.

I cannot imagine Sergio Ramos being the defender and fans being as generous as you.
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Rodrygo doesn't get his body in front of Galan. He needs to get his body in front of Galan there to win the penalty. He tries his hardest and flings his arm across Galan. And then tries to throw his legs in front of Galan. It's a dive for me and in real time he simply looks outmuscled.

Brahim shows Correa the ball and he goes in and takes it. Stepping on his foot in that way is incidental as Correa already has his body in front of Brahim and is taking the ball away. In super slow-motion it might look he fouls and then takes the ball away. In real time I wouldn't expect a referee to give that.
 
Gio said:
Agree on Lenglet on Mbappe, although there is a covering defender which clouds the decision.
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It should have been a red, let's be serious for a minute. That defender is way too far to believe he could get back into the play without the foul

Which just goes to show the power of El Pupas. See, losing like this wouldn't have been devastating enough, so they got away with it, and then the Julain penalty happens :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
criticalanalysis said:
Wow Palermo really had a thing with penalties in his career eh considering he missed 3 in one game.

Also scored a header from near the half way line.

I'm sure you knew already but I can never stop posting about those facts when I hear of his name.
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hahah yeap, he scored being injured against River with a late entrance, a half way line strike too, and so many great and bizarre plays with him...quite a character the lad.
 
Regarding the late discussion, both clubs are big and tend to have more calls on favour than others and between the two given Real it's bigger, they tend to have more on their way, yet that doesn't prevent to have awful calls against too.
This of course with our eyes closed since football as a whole is dirty as feck, yet big clubs fans (and clubs themselves) from around the globe should keep our mouths shut regarding calls, we can be feck up, yet m,ostly are on the beneficiary side.
 
GatoLoco said:
This is one of the weakest post I have seen in RedCafe in my entire life, and I have seen a few. Can you discuss a topic without using ad hominems as the rules of this forum recommend, or is it too much?

If you are so sure the officials/VAR have a clear bias over one of the teams, why didn't it show in any of the four plays I showed? Or is it your claim that all the four calls were the right ones?
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I didn't use ad hominem. I said I doubt you'd change your mind. That's hardly unusual on a football forum.
 
Tyrion said:
I didn't use ad hominem. I said I doubt you'd change your mind. That's hardly unusual on a football forum.
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It is an ad hominem when it dismisses an argument based on affiliations rather than engaging with the actual points the interlocutor is making.

If you are 100% sure all the four calls were the right ones and without a hint of controversy you can say it straight away. Don't be afraid to let us know what your view on things is.
 
Tyrion said:
It could have been the right call but I don't believe VAR would have made the same call of the teams were reversed.
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Double tap is clear infraction of the rules. Alvarez did it. As such, it was not "it could have been", but "it was the right call". While the rest its just a the usual hyperbole, which completes a straw man.
 
Gio said:
Rodrygo doesn't get his body in front of Galan. He needs to get his body in front of Galan there to win the penalty. He tries his hardest and flings his arm across Galan. And then tries to throw his legs in front of Galan. It's a dive for me and in real time he simply looks outmuscled.

Brahim shows Correa the ball and he goes in and takes it. Stepping on his foot in that way is incidental as Correa already has his body in front of Brahim and is taking the ball away. In super slow-motion it might look he fouls and then takes the ball away. In real time I wouldn't expect a referee to give that.
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At this point i doubt you would call a penalty for Madrid if Mbappe was missing half a limb out there. Probably would say something in the line:"Mbappe intentionally threw his legs there". He needs to put them accidentally there to win a penalty".

All i need to replay is decisions on Vinny, and what so called "pro-Madrid" refs are allowing opponents to do. Its absurd.
 
Mr.Fantastic said:
Double tap is clear infraction of the rules. Alvarez did it. As such, it was not "it could have been", but "it was the right call". While the rest its just a the usual hyperbole, which completes a straw man.
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It was hardly a clear double tap. Real would have gotten the benefit of the doubt as refs know that giving a decision like that against them would have led to weeks of harassment, as it did with Bellingham.
 
GatoLoco said:
It is an ad hominem when it dismisses an argument based on affiliations rather than engaging with the actual points the interlocutor is making.

If you are 100% sure all the four calls were the right ones and without a hint of controversy you can say it straight away. Don't be afraid to let us know what your view on things is.
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Sure

Those four calls aren't clearly wrong. You think that because you're a Madrid fan.
 
Red in STL said:
There's a lot of nonsense in this thread IMO over this

The rule is quite simple and applies to all deadball situations, you can only touch the ball once and you can only touch it again after someone else has touched it, whether it's deliberate or accidental is irrelevant, there's no grey areas just simple acts
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What if you touch the ball with both feet at the same time? That looks like what maybe happened as he slipped into the ball with his left and kicked it with his right. If the contact with both feet happens between the two frames of the replay you wouldn't be able to tell if one foot hit it first or both at the same time.
 
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